mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

hey guys, don't know if anyone is interested, but TrickFlow came out with a new set of heads that feature:
175cc intake runners
58cc combustion chambers
1.94/1.50 valve combo
screw in studs and guideplates

the flow numbers are:
Lift Int. Exh.
.150 99 77
.200 126 102
.250 150 115
.300 175 128
.350 194 142
.400 213 153
.450 230 166
.500 240 170
.550 240 173
.600 240 178

i got these from TrickFlow so they are as accurate as their gonna be i suppose. i am looking to put these on my 305 along along with a sightly bigger cam than i am running right now. tell me what you think of the flow numbers. i know that they are good, but i am not sure how good.

F-BIRD'88

Good out of the box flow relative to the port size and valve size. The exhaust port can easily be tuned up a bit with some hand porting and finishing.
But, you can get this flow out of well ported stock 305 (HO or TPI) heads with the larger valves installed. If, you're willing to put the work into them.

Either way would work well for a street oriented hi- perf 305.

A head like this will support about 400-425hp @ 10:1 compression with the right supporting parts. (cam induction, exhaust) With moderate camshaft timing you can expect 330 to 360 flywheel hp out of a 305 with these heads.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Nice thing about these heads is that if you bolt them up to the standard L98 you don't have to change pistons for decent compression. Also you will maintain good torque in the lower rpm band. They also flow good enough to make some nice horsepower numbers. Allen

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

yes, and the cool thing is, there is still alot of meat left for more porting!

my car has BONE STOCK 416 heads on it and has gone 13.75@100.5 with an 1800 stall converter. i am changing the converter to one matched to my cam, should stall around 2800. what do you think gains will be like with the new converter and a set of these new TrickFlow heads?

IROCaholic

With those heads, the 2800 stall and the XE268 cam you should be able to go low 13's if you can get traction. The only thing I would be worried about is a 9:5:1 compression ratio with aluminum heads. Oh and correct me if I am wrong but arent those heads like $1000 a piece?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

already been through this on a few other boards, i called and they are priced at 969.95 a pair for the pre 86 heads.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

new motor is going to see a 335" short block with the XE274 cam and those TrickFlow heads. what say ye?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

On a stock L98 short block you should be able to get 10:1 compression with those heads. The L98 iron heads have a 64cc combustion chamber and 9.3:1 compression. Allen

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Is that a typo? Did you mean "355"?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

nope, 335 is right...hehe

3.77" bore 3.75" stroke.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

In that case, to answer your question:
Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RB83L69

I say you're wasting a whole lot of money on something stupid, because it will go far slower than something you can build for far cheaper.

hehehe

IROCaholic

I say go for it if you can get a good deal on all of the machine work. Look at the times that 335TPI(I think thats his name) is running over on the drag racing boards. He has a fairly mild cam and stock Lb9 heads and is pulling 13.4's with a nice size stall and 2.73 gears. That combo sounds good to me although I think I would still use the XE268 for a little more low end and that fact that a 335 isnt going to want to revv very high. Have you though about maybe a roller cam? You can pick up a roller 305 block for like 50 bucks. Just a thought because That motor would run great with something like the Lt4 hotcam. Good Luck.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

RB, i respect your opinion probably more than anyones on the board, but i don't think this is stupid or a waste of my money. i can put it together and run 12's all day long for the same amount as other people put into their 12 second combos.

tunedport335 is going 13.4's at 98mph with 2.73's and a 26" tall tire. i wil have a more wild cam and a holley carb/intake with better flowing heads and i am running 4.10's with a 28" tall tire.

this is a motor i have always wanted to try out. and no, i am not saying this will be the last motor i ever build, nor will it be the fastest. i am 20y/o and have plenty of time to play with other motors. this is a pride thing here.

a roller cam is not going to be necessary cause it will never see over 5500-6000 rpm. it'll rev plenty quick too, don't worry. i think the XE 274 will be well matched to the intake and heads. i will probably also upgrade to a double pumper carb. the powerhouse stroker kit has pistons in it for 10:1 c/r with iron heads, any idea what it will be with the new aluminum ones? also, what do you think of those heads on my current 9.5:1 c/r 310?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

For what that Powerhouse stroker kit is going to cost you, you could buy and build a 355 that will put more than a little scare into 12's. For what a Powerhouse 383 kit costs, you could buy a 350 block and build a 383 for no more than the 334 will end up costing to build (it's a 334, for what that's worth, not a 335 - do the math).

Tunedport's claims are nothing short of amazing. It doesn't seem to add up, and even so, his appears to be a very unique case. I wouldn't make any money decisions based on what has been posted about that combo. And, FWIW, he's even admitting that knowing what he knows today, he wouldn't do it again.

334 vs. 355 vs. 383 - it's not hard to figure. If you're set on getting these TF heads, then I'd say put them on your 305 or a 355. The mistake you seem to be making is assuming the sum of the parts you get with a 350 will have the same ratio effect on a 334 - it just doesn't work that way.

DON'T waste money on a 334. The only possible reason to do it would be to "be different". Is it really worth that much to be "different"? I'd say you're already an overachiever.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

it's not a unique case. i have a car already way into the 13's. and it's just a 305! heck, i mph MORE than tunedport 335! i just need more converter and some sticky tires!

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Build a 406 and tell everyone its a 334


youll be unique

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Perspective, perhaps.

You have a hot-rodded 305, lightened car, gears, stall, etc., etc., etc. He has a full-weight, basically stock stroked TPI 305. Completely different animals.

Although you may see some increases by bolting those heads on a 334, you would most likely see almost all of the increase by bolting them on to your current 305. That's what I'm trying to communicate. However, bolt them onto a 350, a much bigger increase than than the 334/310 ratio.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

you think that the 334 with those heads and my 310 with those heads would perform the same? man, that would save me about $1200!

i am just so in love with the 305 for some reason. i am almost like a giddy school girl over it. so much that i am selling my 350 block and crank to a guy in ATL this weekend!

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

oh, and tunedport335's isn't exactly just a stock stroked 305. he has a 3000stall converter and a built 700r4. so he has that over me, plus 25 cid

gmgod

This is what happens just before they take you away folks...... just so you know.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

you wanna take this outside?

eric17422001

Awww don't worry about it Matt, I'm going to turbo my six, and it's not like I haven't heard how stupid that idea is a dozen times!

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Hahah I second this


and my 305 is faster than yours mw66


but im still sane enough to know its rediculous to consider building one up when a small block looks like a small block whether its some 15,000 dollar 454 stroker custom sbc or a 150 dollar junkyard 305


What you need is a paradigm shift my friend, you need a ride in something fast and youll realize talking about 305 buildups is akin to discussing the finer points of small arms when you need to be looking into 50 megaton nuclear weapons like for instance a hot 383+ or any Turbo Buick

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

look guys, if i want to drive a fast car, all i gotta do is go hop in my Father's z28, which would give your turbo buick a run there Pablo. just wanna take it to the brink. let me. it's not your money. now, do ya wanna help me like what the boards are here for? or do you wanna be a bunch of buttholes and not help out?

oh and pablo, you have a t-5, i have an auto, we have already discussed why your faster than i

ya'll need to lighten up a little bit. it's my money, i can spend it the way i want. oh, and it looks like i may forgo the trickflow heads, i found a really good deal on some done up 416's. the 350 is being sold so i can get new wheels and tires(so i can get the power to the ground). i can pick up another 350 block when i am ready to go that route.

i'll make sure i post timeslips when i get the new stuff together....if you guys even care

RB83L69

You're exactly right; it's your money; and you can do what you want with it. And after all that's what this hobby is really all about, is basically fun per dollar.

I'll tell you what might be fun:

You build your 334, and I'll build the motor of my choice (which I will 100% guarantee won't be a 334). We'll establish a budget. Whatever budget you like, as long as it's honest and real-world. I'd suggest as a starting point, the price of that "kit", plus ALL machine work (or a pre-agreed reasonable amount of money for it), plus the heads you want (or a pre-agreed budget for them), plus valve train, plus induction system, plus supplies, and so forth. Since you're wanting to use a pre-existing block, the raw block casting won't count in the budget. The budget will therefore include EVERYTHING besides the block casting itself: machine work, cam, supplies, etc., in essence, every piece required to take a block from "naked" status, to a ready-to-run engine. I'd expect a reasonable budget for such a build to come up in the $3000 range or thereabouts. We won't allow cheating by spending extra money on ANYTHING and not claiming it on the budget, and any "free" or "pre-existing" parts have to be assigned a reasonable value, that we both have to agree on; in other words, EVERY DIME that goes into the motor has to be counted against the budget, even if it was spent a long time ago. Doesn't matter how we come up with the parts (ebay, Summit, local shops, swap meets, whatever); but, every part needs to have a price, and be counted in the budget. If you want, we could even use the same heads; and I'll even consider letting you make the choice of heads, if you want to go that route. Then when we get done, we'll take them to the engine dyno; and whoever gets more power out of theirs, takes both motors home.

What do you think? Sound like fun? Personally I think it would be alot of fun. Only thing is, I have no idea what I'd do afterwards with a 334. I don't really want one of those for anything.

But regardless, I'd love to see time slips, or dyno results, or whatever, from whatever you end up doing. It's always worthwhile to see measureable repeatable proof to back up people's predictions. And BTW, I think you'll find when you do the math, that selling a 350 and buying a 334 kit, is both a negative cash flow situation, and a power output downgrade. That 334 thing is going to cost you a good solid $1500, best-case, before it's ready to have heads bolted onto it. So if you get any less than $1500 for this 350, it's a lose-lose proposition. Lose money, lose power.

All we're trying to do, is to stop you from making a mistake, and using your own money as the weapon to shoot yourself in the shorts with.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

we have? Is it because im making more power? I think a 5 mph difference is more than just trannies my friend

and while we are talking about cars owned by people we know, I know a guy with a... (insert mega buck high horsepower setup here) and

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

no, i am selling the 350 to get new wheels and tires. i think i may hold off on another shortblock of any kind. but i still wanna pick up those heads and throw it on my current motor. there is nothing wrong with it, heck, when i put it back together, i put forged rods in it along with some other goodies (moly rings, etc.)

Pablo, we did talk about this on the Drag Racing board when i asked "who has a 13 second 305". you were excited about my build then, now your doggin on it. what gives?

oh, and about the "i know a guy" thing, well i got ya beat on anything you can come up with. but the z28 is accessable and i can actually race it if i want. it's as much mine as it is my father's.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I, for one, have been watching your progress and cheering you on - until you mentioned the 334. If for no other reason, you shouldn't do it for the same reason I shouldn't put a 4" stroke or 2.19/1.88 valves in my 396 - shrouding.

The TF's on your 305 - fine. I think they're better 350 heads, though (they should have done them years ago).

Selling your 350 - boy, I'd sure think that one over carefully. I understand your need for traction, but that may not be the best way to get it. Get a tire store to sponsor your racing efforts - they give you a set of wheels/tires, you put their decals on your car, and their name is announced when you come up to the line. That way you'll have a 350 to build when the money comes in.

I sold a builder 4-bolt 350 in 1998 when I put the 396 in the '57. I got the Camaro the next year. I considered the stroker in '01 until the engine builder I approached about machining the 305 roller block I had suggested I do the math - my conclusion then is what you're seeing above now. It took me until now to get a 350 for the Camaro. Sure wish I'd kept that builder.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

alright. you guys have convinced me to stay away from the 334. i am still selling the 350. i already have a buyer and i am not backing out. i also have already told the seller of the wheels it's a done deal, and i am not backing out. i am a man of my word, regardless of the sillyness of the situation, i will not back out of the deals i have set up. the guy that i am selling the 350 to is getting a late model roller block with 2 bolt mains that needs a .030 over to be good and a stock 1pc crank and oil pan for $225. i am not getting rich, but i think it's a fair price for what he is getting.

i am buying a set of 15x5's and 15x8's weld draglites from a boy up north for $310. the money from the motor is going towards the new wheels. i am planning on getting a set of the new drag radials put out by m/t for $270 from another guy who sells em really cheap. i need the traction, and these tires will do it while still being able to drive it on the road. (will not be driven on daily, i will swap them on before i go to the track and after i get back they are coming off). around these parts, the cops don't like the Street ET's and whatnot, even though they are DOT approved.

i have a race against a 1974 'Cuda on the 1st of May. he has a 360 and runs low 13's. with the new tranny (which i am picking up Sat ) and converter and traction, i should be right there with him. i told him the 305 would waste his 360. all in fun, no money bettin' on it, and he will probably win, but i wanna at least have a shot.

HalfInchWrench

You are going against a Cuda that supposedly runs low 13's with an untested combo? Just for fun is fine but I expect you may not win. I bet the ol' Cuda is even faster than he says.it is. Do you know for a fact that it is a low 13 second car and he hasen't done any more mods?


I commend you for sticking to your promise. If you say you will sell the 350 then let it go. I would do the same thing.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

the fastest i have seen the cuda run is 13.7X but i know he has done a bit of tweakin to it. he is an older guy that is part of the Ministry Staff for my Dad's drag racing ministry, so he is actually a pretty close friend. totally just for kicks. my new tranny/converter combo will be tested as soon as my shoulder heals up a bit more (got surgery two weeks ago, had to rebuild the ligaments...ehh). i will have traction too, even if it means ripping the slicks off my dad's car if i can't get the new DR's back to the house before testing. there is no reason it shouldn't drop et with a converter matched to the cam/intake/gears as opposed to the one i just slapped in there "hoping" it would work and a tranny with a shift kit as opposed to a bone stock 700r4. i got a little time to play before i go racing in May. the converter i have in there now stalls at 1800, and even though i have tire spin off the line, it's still abit sluggish, like it needs a bit more converter, and since ATI built my converter to my cam specs, it should be matched well.

HalfInchWrench

I'm not shure what to make of that but you better strart praying. If you need a club name, may I suggest "Gear Heads and G0D"

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

so, you think i gotta a snowflakes chance in hell?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

When the Pope's Polish.

Oh, wait, that one's no good anymore...

Sure, you have a chance. Prov. 21:31 (NASV or RSV fit the best).

Gearheads for G0D - I like that one.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

well, i have the NLT and am not really sure what the RSV version is but NASV = North American Standard Version???

anyhow, i guess since we are both racing in jesus name, the the victory is the lords either way, LOL!

ah, i still wanna win! i'll give it my best shot and i will keep you updated on my track testing when the shoulder gets better. i am going to Monroe, GA to get my new beefed up 700r4 tomorrow. hope to get it in with the ATI converter within two weeks. then all i gotta do is get some m/t rubber and get them mounted up! i still say i'm headed for some 13.3's!

formula_novice

iTrader: (1)

Just wondering...

Would these new Trick Flow heads outperform my stock heads on my factory L98? I assumed they would, but just wanted to make sure... I read that it'll raise the comp. ratio, but don't know alot about how that effects TQ & HP?

With the factory setup (cam, etc), can anyone tell me about how much TQ / HP these heads will provide over stock?

If I went for an aftermarket cam, which should I use to take advantage of these Trick Flow heads?

Any info would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thank you.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

mw66nova...

I'm glad to see you changed your mind on the 334. It's your money I know, but you can build something alot better for alot less. You need to ride in some well built, budget 350 powered cars. Hell come on up here to carrollton, GA. and i'll take you for a ride in my 88.

I got right at $2600 in my whole 355 rebuild. That's oil pan to air cleaner, sprak plug to spark plug.

. With a 2800 stall, th-400, 3.42 gears, powertrax locker. I turn 12.80's and 12.90's but get this.... at 118 MPH... Yeah you heard it right 118 MPH, Spinning both 255/60 tires for over 100' if I launch and go WOT. To get any kind of good ET I have to roll into the throttle. 20% on launch, 60% at the 60' mark, not going 100% till 100-110 feet out

Based on MPH, once I get the suspension and tires on my car to hook, it will ET in the 11.40's range.

Nothing wild about this combo, all N/A, 40+ year old GM iron heads, 10.18:1 compression, hyd, flat tappet 272/284* 216/228* @.050" liift cam, edelbrock 600 carb, etc.

Has power everywhere from idel to 6200-6300 rpm.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

my dad has a 355 w/ dart iron eagle heads, holley street dominator intake, an 800cfm holley carb, a solid lifter cam with some incredibily big specs (he knows, i can't think of it off the top of my head, someting with like 280* lift @ .050 and .530+ lift) a powerglide, 4.56 gears, and no more than 5grand in the whole build. that includes a 9" rear and areospace components brakes. i know what a fast car feels like. this car runs 11.70's @118 and if he had a 3sp, he'd be as fast as you, if not faster. i do want to continue on with the 305 build cause i already have a solid short block. when it blows, i will build a 4"+ bore. whatever i do from here on out, should swap to the bigger motor.

i guess what i am trying to say is, i know what can be done for cheap. i really appreciate the encouragement too

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

"Revised Standard Version" & "New American Standard Version".

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

oh, ok, cool!



oh, i got the tranny/converter in, OMGoodness! it's crazy fast now! well, compared to what it was. hehe. i just ordered my new mickey thompson et street radials this evening. $296 shipped to my door for a set of 275/60/15's from www.extremesuspensions.com they are mostly offroad stuff, buy they have CHEAP tires! can't wait to get them on and get to the track. also got some more vacuum secondary springs so i hope to get her tuned and to the track maybe next week or the week after (shoulder is still kinda holding me back...)

TunedPort 335

Claims?? C'mon man I know your better than that!. They are hard facts and I have actually laminated the timeslips incase anybody wants to give me BS about it. There were also tgo board members there when I ran my times, including Preston Smith who said he likes the car

But yes you are right. I built my motor about a year before i joined this board. I may have built something different if I had more knowledge and information, but I still love my motor/car.

BTW Powerhouse has some INSANE deals on 383 stroker kits right now. Its something to look into i guess

Chris.

TunedPort 335

Yup, $300 from a friend. Budget > me

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

trust me tunedport335, i understand budget!

i wouldn't have put the ati converter in it that i did had i not had a KILLER deal. retail was $850 for the treemaster converter. that's not exactly what i would call a feesible price for a converter for me. i was running a $150 b-stall corvette converter. my dad gave me his contingency certificates for ati for my b-day last year, and then we get a racer discount with ati, i ended up only paying $49.xx shipped to my door for the converter, and it's tailored to my motor. the tranny i got brand new from a guy in Monroe, GA. Domestic Performance is the name of the shop. w/ core i only payed $625 for the tranny. the 4.10 rear/locker was a hand-me-down, and the cam/lifters was a hand-me-down. so, yeah, budget minded, i am.

whitez406

iTrader: (5)

Do like me. Build a 383 with a powerhouse bottome end and throw a 274H cam in it wiht good heads and ull be in the mid to low 12's. I have less then 3k in my motor. Also i have a 274H cam for sale if u want one lol.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i may be interested in the cam, how much do you want for it? i assume it's used. i'm so broke right now, but i keep managing to find money to buy parts for the car. it's rather strange.

whitez406

iTrader: (5)

$100 for cam and lifters. I never ran it tight either. I ran 1/4 turn on them. Its got about 10k on it. Im going to the XE294H and or XE284H

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i'll have to get back to you about that. i am interested though.

oxrabidus

[quote=mw66nova;2210041]

the flow numbers are:
Lift Int. Exh.
.150 99 77
.200 126 102
.250 150 115
.300 175 128
.350 194 142
.400 213 153
.450 230 166
.500 240 170
.550 240 173
.600 240 178

Are those numbers on a 305 bore or a 350 bore?