83_Camaro_83

Ok, so went outside this morning to start my car.....all i heard was mur mur mur, dead....so i boosted, and it wants to catch, but it doesnt. So I found out one thing, my carb isnt opening up when the gas pedalis pressed down.....WTF....its has been -40 here (celisius, dont freak americans) So what could have causeed this? and somehow there is a bit of oil on the intake manifold, but I dont know if that is related.

TPI-454

Sticky choke...

Red Devil

Does starter fluid work? Got fuel?

83_Camaro_83

Half a tank, but if its a sticky chose, shouldnt my throttle plate open up when I step on the gas? Could it have been so cold that when i pressed the gas something snapped? Still nothing as of now

VILeninDM

I am pretty sure butterflies at the top are choke, throttle is on the bottom (then again, not a carb expert). Then again, when it is cold, isn't the whole point of a choke is to stay close. It is supposed to open only when car starts to warm up.

btw, -40 C is -40 F

Then again, carbs aren't exactly known for their reliability in cold weather

83_Camaro_83

Its not the choke!!! AHHHHGGG THE MAIN THINGY, as in the biggest plate on top THATS SUPPOSED TO OPEN when you press the gas, well......it wont open when the pedal is pressed.....not the choke, I dont care about the choke.... but the flap that allows more air in, does not open....the throttle...... just making sure tis a bit clearer now

Is it?!?! sheesh...I thought it was way different, but then again, I never realy looked into it

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

I'm no expert either but:

Couldn't you try moving the throttle at the carb instead of at the pedal and watch what's going on? Try moving the butterfly to see if it's sticking? Is there a lot of residue there?

If you're not getting enough air wouldn't you smell gas due to flooding?

Are you sure you don't have gas line freeze?

I would look at my carbed unit but it's trapped in under what little snow we have right now.

I wouldn't care if it was -40 F. It's -10 F right now. Doesn't really matter after that- well except for your oil freezing and things like that. I just wish there was some snow cover to make it feel warmer.
(BTW when it's this cold F doesn't stand for Fahrenheit. )

VILeninDM

k, maybe carbs fbodies use are different. Here I have pictures of rochester/carter/whatever from 73 vette

"main, big thingy on top" on this carb is the choke:
http://dxm004.homeip.net/gallery/vie...ap&id=IMG_0342
whether you care about it or not, that's what stares at you when you look at the carb.

This is the bottom view and those are throttle plates/butterflies (or whatever they are technically called):
http://dxm004.homeip.net/gallery/vie...ap&id=IMG_0346

Sorry can't help you much beyond that. I only replaced one once, don't really know what makes them tick (yet). But if it was me and it was -40 outside in either scale, I'd just go back to sleep

TPI-454

Wrong, it is the choke! You're looking at the vacuum secondaries flap, in which does NOT open when the car is started. Only when a certain amount of vacuum is achieved, normally under hard acceleration, especially with a load. Vacuum seconadries have nothing to do with start up!

Its the choke. If you don't believe me, take off you're air cleaner, have someone open the choke flap about a quarter of an inch.... and then try to start the car.

kevinc

Calm down a bit. The carb actually has a set of butterflies at the base nearest the intake...they're the throttle plates.

The set of butterflies you're looking at up top are:

1.) front, primary venturi side: choke
2.) rear, secondary venturi side: secondary fuel metering plates

At this point, I'd recommend a book. Hard to troubleshoot when you don't know for sure what you're looking at.

Red Devil

I meant fuel at the carb. Are you getting any when you manually try? Have you tried starter fluid yet? Yes, the top 'thing' is the choke plate.


Kevin stole my book line.

83_Camaro_83

Thanx EVERYONE for clearing up what the choke is......

BUT, 2 main things were mentioned, sticky choke and frozen fuel lines, what are fixes for these?

How do i know if its vacumm or elec choke?

thanx again

and no i havent tried starter fluid

and there is fuel at the carb i believe

TPI-454

All third generation quadrajet choke's are electric, and the secondaries are vacuum operated. Don't worry about the secondaries...

You need to replace the choke's coil (it might be bad), or spray some WD-40 on the choke's linkage.... it might be stuck in the closed position.

kevinc

Given the ambient air temp, and you're certain it's getting spark, I'd say you have a frozen blockage in your fuel line.

To see if the carb has fuel in the bowl, just hold the choke open and then actuate the throttle to WOT a time or two. The accelerator pump should spray gas down the primaries. No gas spray = empty carb fuel bowl. At that point, it could be the fuel pump failed or just a frozen blockage in your fuel line somewhere.

The starting fluid spray thing mentioned earlier will also help you diagnose it. Give it a shot down the primaries (manually open the choke plate a bit) and crank it. If it starts and runs for a sec or two, you know it's fuel related.

Check it out and report back...politely.

83_Camaro_83

lol sorry im jsut freaked out its exam time and I gott get it running for monday

But there is fuel spray, me and my friend checked so fuel lines/pump should be alright

I will try WD 40 and see if that works

What is my choke coil? is it that weird shaped thing?

Whats WOT.....lol

thanx again

TPI-454

Observe how the choke flap functions, and trace it's linkage toward the coil (yes, it looks weird, and has a wire leading to it)...

Wide open throttle

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

Can't help you on the choke coil since I know next to nothing about carbs (though it appears I know more than some people ), but WOT = Wide Open Throttle.

83_Camaro_83

I know exactly what you mean then, its the greyish thing on the drivers side of the carb right? Maybe i should check if im gettin 12 volts at it. It soooo cold outside though lol. And my battery is pretty much dead.

So after I trace is to the coil what am I looking for?

But also, sticky choke, how do i "un sticky" this choke

thanx

TPI-454

Make sure the wire connection is good, and that its not loose, or off, as well as make sure it's getting enough voltage to open the coil. With the carburetor exposed, and the choke flap closed all the way down, put the key in the 'on' position (don't start it).... does the choke flap trigger/activate? Does it open up any, to allow some air in? If not, it's either the linkage is stuck, the coil is shot, or the coil isn't getting any juice from the wire feed....

If the coil is good, then just spray some WD-40 all over the linkage.... while opening, and closing it manually.

83_Camaro_83

You have proved very useful if only it wasnt majorly freezing outside. I would go out but while messing around yesterday trying to fix it I think I got frost bite, the tips of my fingers are rock hard and its pretty gross But yeah I will try it later, again thanx alot

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

I didn't reply to your questions about the sticky choke and line freeze because the ones answering you know more than I do and were giving you better advice than I could.

FYI: Gas line freeze is from water in your gas tank from condensation. the water gets into the line and freeze's, blocking gas to the carb. You may want to keep your tank full as much as possible during the winter. You can add Heet (NOT HEAT- it's an additive) to your tank as well to deal with this before it happens. They also add something to gasoline during the winter for this reason. The fix is a tow into a heated garage $$$.

The choke can become sticky due to residue accumulating on and inside of your carb. That's why they're telling you to spray it with WD40 and move it around.

I will say this. When working on you car in the cold (- teens and below) don't touch any metal parts- this will limit your time out there. Use other objects like plastic that won't DRAW THE HEAT out of your hands. Touching really cold parts is similar to burning your hands on very hot things. Try to keep gloves on if you can, even thin ones will help some. Wear a hat.

Stay out of the wind or you won't be out there for long. Monitor yourself and go in when your body/hands tell you. the damage is permanent and will be sensitive to cold weather after.
DON'T run inside and pour hot water on your hands like someone did when they were a kid. Your hands will swell up and ruin them- and it hurts like hell.

I think if you just have someone hold the choke open until it starts and get it running the heat will give you the time to work on the carb. You can squirt it but it's not good for the engine so use it sparingly. Also, don't be cheap like I used to be. Buy a new battery and be done with it. It's not worth trying to milk the one you have. a good battery will hold it's charge and regenerate some after the last crank, it won't wear down your starting system as much either. Limit your crank duration's- you know when it's not going to pop. I go oversize on battery.

Sorry, I tend to carry on too much- These are the things I do when out there. "Better to learn from a fool than to be one yourself"

My claim to fame is changing an alternator outside at -30 F actual. It wasn't bad actually, there wasn't much humidity and the wind was nill. (The things we do for women.)
:hail:

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

But he doesnt have a quadrajet.

Btw, I havent had any problems with my gas freezing, so that should rule that out right now.

Try holding a hairdryer on it for a bit, and then see what happens. I hear that can be all you need sometimes..

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

I was giving general advice to keep you out of trouble in the future. It's not fun messin' w/ cars this time of year. Like I said keep your tank full.

BTW I just replaced the starter on my truck :lala: - I have a garage now.

Yeah, a hairdryer is good.

TPI-454

Yeah, I realized that he was running a V6 a few posts after that one... but even so, the same info applies.

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Oh, ok. I wasnt positive.


Oh I didnt pay any attention to who said it first, I was just trying to.. uh, I guess I just wanted to put my 2 bits in. And you're right, I hate doing ANYTHING to my car this time of year. Next winter I am storing my TA and buying like an 85 Subaru or something. My freaking dashboard cracked the other day, so I've had it with this weather.

83_Camaro_83

Yeah I got a new battery and I try to keep my tank full as much as possible, but im gonna try the hair drythe thingy tommrowo or get my buddy to hold open the choke...I hope is starts And i just found out my block heater, or cord isnt working, i dont have the regualr block heater though, I have something that goes into the bottom rad hose and heats up the water....weird....

thanx for the replies

edit: If im not mistaken isnt the choke supposed to be closed for startup??

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Check the tech tips. I believe they say that the choke should be open when you first pop the hood in the morning, then if you pump the gas a bit it will start to close, then when you start the car, it will slowly open as the engine works.

And I also have that queer coolant heater. Some say it's better, some say it's worse. I dont really care lol..

83_Camaro_83

I heard it was better, but in my opinion, since its never worked for me....lol....i think its gay ARG...I wish it would start

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Well at least it's a HELL of a lot easier to replace. I got quoted like 65 bucks form crappy tire.

83_Camaro_83

please do not tell me you get canadian tire to do your auto work......please do not say you do..... there a place on 17th and 52nd that is my favorite place to go now, good pricing and awsome service

Is there anyway I can stick a screw driver in the choke to hold it open? I heard about that before, If i can im going out there soon to get this thing fired up

TPI-454

When the engine is fully warmed up, the choke will stay wide open.... when it is cold, it will close completely shut. In the morning, or whenever you start the car, after it sat for awhile (or when it's cold)... if you 'tap' the gas pedal (assuming that the choke was still open from last time driven), it will close. When you place the key in the 'on' position, the choke must open slightly to allow air in for start up. When the engine is cold (key on), the choke should be opened slightly, when it is warm (key on), it should be opened all the way...

Remember; No air, no start...

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Oh lord no. I just meant the part. For the love of jesus, install it yourself. It really isnt hard. only place that ever gets to touch my car is the dealership, and even then, only when I cant do it myself.


I really hope you arent referring to best buy performance. I dont know much about them, but the one guy I talked to, was a complete tard.

Yeah I guess so... Just be really careful...

83_Camaro_83

No idea about the place you just mentioned, Im reffering to autopro.....its awsome

but yeah Im goin out right now to put on the battery charger then stick a screw driver in the thingy. I stick it in the front plate right? not the back one?

TPI-454

Hold it open (front plate) with you're fingers, and have someone start the car for you!

83_Camaro_83

1: no ones home
2: isnt there the risk of back fire or what ever its called

im just gonna use the screw driver method and hope it works

TPI-454

You won't backfire, don't worry. Place something in the front plate area that won't rattle out, or quite possibly fall in, as the car is trying to start. If you can wedge something in there to keep the plate wide open, be sure to (since the engine is freezing cold) to give it PLENTY of gas...

Don't let anything fall down into the Carb, cuz then you'll have much bigger problems...

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

My uncle once used a key. And then it fell into the engine. And he was genuinely suprised.

Maybe like tie a string to the handle and then tie the other end to something so it doesnt fall in.

83_Camaro_83

thanx for the tips man, a stubby screw driver should do the trick though right? Well i just went outside to plug the battery charger in and its not as cold as before, but still freezing, so im gonna give the charger and hour or so then try this, if it starts do i take out the screw driver as soon as possible or does it matter?

TPI-454

We're still unsure of the cause, as it could be a sticky, or failing choke. Don't use a screwdriver. Either way, just disconnect the linkage at the choke, and the choke will stay open on its own. Its safer that way.

Just remember, by disconnecting the linkage, the engine is going to get a blast of fresh air everytime you start her up (until you fix the problem). With more incoming air during startup, you'll need to compensate by giving her more fuel (press down on the pedal until started, and when started, hold down pedal until warm.... similar to having a manual choke from the ole days).

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

I agree, the screw driver isn't a good idea. I would trickle charge the battery over night if possible. Then have a friend hold it open by the linkage.

83_Camaro_83

How hard is it to disconnect it? and Im gonna have to stay in the car and keep giving it gas for it to stay running?!?

TPI-454

I don't recommend doing this at night, and if you're in a rush.... as there is a little screw that holds the plate in place with the linkage, and that screw is prone to fall in if this is you're first time (especially at night)...

Either wait until tomorrow, and have a friend assist you.... or put something in their that you are SURE will not fall in. Maybe a piece of spare coolant hose (cut a small piece, and wedge it in tight.

Yes, you'll need to keep giving her gas (or hold idle up to around 1500RPM), until the engine is warm... once warm, you can let go. You'll be fine. Holding the pedal down only applies to the initial start up, first few minutes. Once she's warm, she's back to normal. Remember, this is only until you fix the problem.

83_Camaro_83

I really want to get it going as soon as possible, exams on monday so i wanna try all my options. A stubby screw driver is short enough, and fat enough that it wont fall in im thinking? please correct me if im wrong

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

well, the one good thing about using a screwdriver is that it probably wont hold it all the way open, so once it starts it may run on it's own faster.

Social 30 part A?

I'm trying to study right now, but I keep clicking on the TGO button. (yeah, I'm that much of a loser. I have a TGO button.)

TPI-454

I really hate that concept, as the screwdriver can fall out as the engine shakes during start up. Why not try to 'tie' the choke to something with a string (shoe-lace?). Tie it to stay open on the stem that the air filter housing sits down on....

novass

iTrader: (1)

Buy the way -40 C is also -40 F when it gets that cold, I'd still freak!

oops just realized VILeninDM already beat me to it

83_Camaro_83

LOL yeah man same exam, haha nerd...TGO button **runs to quickly gets rid of his**

83_Camaro_83

lol, you have no idea, i look at your sig and it says 19F, i hate you lol

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Or an elastic. They dont catch fire as easily.

TPI-454

At this point, 'anything' just to get the freaking thing started!

A metal bread-tie twisty would be best though...