tlgrooms

Hi all,

Was driving my '91 Camaro the other day and got behind a cement truck. First chance I got I tried to pass the truck. When I really got on the accelerator, the engine bogged down and almost quit. Had to fall back and slow way down, pull of the road and the car died. Tried to start it and no go. Let it sit for 5 minutes or so and it started back up and drove it another 10 miles or so until I got into some serious hills. Again the car started slowing down and the more gas I gave it the worse it ran. Barely made it to where I work and know it isn't the following:

Fuel pump is OK. (Replaced a couple of years ago and tested it after it quit).

Fuel filter under the car near gas tank is OK.

Took it to a mechanic who replaced the EGR valve (didn't think this was the problem as I had recently replaced this also).

Car seems to idle OK and will run OK until you start accelerating up. If running on flat road it will run OK until a load is placed on the engine where it will continue to slow down and eventually die. When it dies, it won't start again until it sits for a while.

Anyone have any guesses?

Thanks in advance

swerve-driver

I would recheck fuel pressure and fuel filter then go from there.
Sounds like it is fuel starved. Would be interesting to log data during that time and see how O2 sensor responds.

Best
S-D

tlgrooms

Replaced O2 sensor about 3 or 4 months ago also..

bulletboy29

I had that same problem a couple of months ago. It can be all sorts of things, but mine turned out to be a fried contact on the ECM. I could go anywhere as long as I kept the gas steady, if I got into hills or had to accelerate for some reason it would die. I would then sit there for about 15 minutes until it would crank again.

I'm not saying that this is what is wrong with your car, just something to keep in mind. I thought my problem was going to be in the distributer (ignition control module, pick-up coil, etc.), but after spending alot of money on all those parts another ECM did the trick!

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=261960

2bluerides

It could also be your catalytic convertor. Once that starts to clog you get very poor exhaust flow and a major reduction in power. I don't know if a trouble code will indicate the problem, you didn't mention any trouble codes. I also had something similar happen when my knock sensor went bad: it ran fine most of the time, but sometimes it would just lose power for a few minutes, then gain it back. I think the sensor cost me $30, but I also bought a sensor testing unit to add to my tool collection.
Good Luck

tlgrooms

I may be wrong but it seems to me that the car is getting too much fuel when you accelerate it.

tlgrooms

bulletboy29,

What's a new ECM cost? Took my car to a mechanic where I was broke down (about 100 miles away from home) and left it. He changed out the EGR valve, checked the Fuel Pump and Filter and changed the spark plugs.

I had changed the EGR valve out myself about 2 months ago and told him that. So that was a waste of money. Had also changed the spark plugs myself then. Picked it up today with a tow trailer and got it home. Guy charged me $170 for nothing. It was running and idling OK when I took it to him. Now it won't start. Going to try to make a cable up tomorrow and connect to the laptop to check it out.

bulletboy29

I got mine at the junkyard. I have CRS (can't remember sht), so I would have to search thru my mound of receipts for this car. I'm gonna guess that it was in the neighborhood of $40 or less.




https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=263997

Ramair21

iTrader: (3)

mine was doing the samething. It turned out to be the pick up coil!! after i replaced that it ran like a champ.!!

tlgrooms

Jumpered A & B and came up with the following codes counting the flashes:

22
23
24
33
53
54
12

Couldn't find anything any my book on 53 and 54, does anyone know what they mean? Also, my speedometer hasn't worked in a long time. Tried replacing the VSS with a new one quite a while back and it didn't fix the problem.

tlgrooms

Well, so far replaced the MAP sensor, ECM, Distributor cap, rotor, spark plug wires, spark plugs, and EGR valve. Checked the TPS and looks OK as does the fuel pump and fuel filter. Still have the same darn problem. About ready to pull hair....

tlgrooms

Problem is in the gas supply. The car is putting out way too much gas and floods out.

tlgrooms

Still down having changed out all the above parts and also changed out the coil.

Car is getting way too much gas and flooding, it will NOT start. When this first started, car was starting and running fine and would bog down when accelerated or a load was put on it (going up a hill) and eventually die.

Anyone have any other suggestions? I've been down over 2 weeks now and need my car for work.

tlgrooms

Replaced pick-up coil, ignition module and fuel pump relay today. Car still won't start .

azvolfan

I had a somewhat similar problem with my T/A and it was not a problem of getting too much fuel. It was the other way around. The fuel pump was shot. Have you checked your fuel pressure? I would try that if you have not done so.

azvolfan

Here are your error codes. The error code 12 is not an error code, it tells you the ECM is in diagnostic mode. The 12 will happen everytime you pull codes.
22. Low voltage at throttle positon sensor OR
Fuel cutoff relay circuit open or shorted to ground
23. Low temperature at manifold air temperature sensor OR
Throttle position sensor error
24. Circuit fault in vehicle speed sensor
33. High voltage (low vacuum) at mass air flow sensor
(or MAP sensor)
53. High voltage at battery OR
High voltage at exhaust gas recirculation valve OR
Voltage reference error OR
Problem at vehicle anti-theft system
54. Low voltage at fuel pump OR
Low voltage at Fuel pump relay OR
Output failure at quad driver module

tlgrooms

Tnx for the codes. I had them all except for the ones in the 50's. The book I have didn't mention those for some reason. Cleared the ECM the other day (bought a new one) but have been unable to get the car to start. Checked it after installing the new ECM and was getting only a 12. After replacing these additional parts today I decided to check the ECM again and came up with 1 code, a 34 (MAP). I have replaced the map sensor once and am beginning to think that maybe the one I put in is BAD since I am getting a 34 now again. Going to try to find someone who can test the MAP I have tomorrow.

Have already checked fuel pump and pressure, fuel filter etc.

Have a question, does the engine have to be running before the ECM can pick up codes? like this 34 that happened today? It almost started once but never did fully start.

Dan91Z

Check the fuel injectors for a short

tlgrooms

Fuel Injectors look OK. Replaced MAP sensor a second time. Disconnected catalytic converter, same problem. Car won't start and seems to be getting way to much gas. Beginning to think maybe it jumped time?

tlgrooms

Still not running. Anyone have any other suggestions? I'm about ready to give up.

dennis6

My suggestion is to ditch the tbi, throw on a carb and be done with it.

Red25thRS

i had a problem like that...kinda...except mine never stalled.....my car used to thro the egr and map sensor code all the time i even replaced them reset the ecm and it still thru them.....my timing was way off on my car...like 12 degrees retarded when it should be 0....so i put it to 4 advance and its never thrown a code....cuz when it used to throw the code...it would retard my timing even more and it struggled to get over 2500 rpm....but u say it wont start so u cant really do the timing..........go get some starting fluid and spray it down ur tbi then try to start it...if it starts...replace ur fuel pump...its only like 35 bucks....if it doesnt start only thing i can think of is ignition module

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, what he said. Plus pull a plug wire, put a spare plug in it, and lay it up against the strut tower and crank it over. Is the plug sparking nice and bright? If not, ignition problem (coil, module, etc). You need spark, fuel, and air. Keep it simple, verify the spark, then make sure it's getting fuel. Could pull the valve covers and watch for valve movement, but that's a pain to do and I would only do as a last resort. Turn the motor over by hand to TDC on #1 and see very the timing tab is pointing to make sure you're in the ball park timing wise. Has the distributor been pulled for any reason? Might verify your firing order if any of the plug wires have been touched/changed, etc. (by you or anyone else!)

tlgrooms

Have tried most of this. The car seems to be getting too much gas and flooding out which keeps it from starting.

So far I have replaced:

Coil, ignition module, pick-up coil, distributor cap, rotor, spark plugs, spark plug wires, map sensor, fuel pump relay, ecm, egr valve. Checked the fuel pump, fuel filter, TPS sensor and cadilytic (sp) converter. Put a new oxygen sensor on about 3 or 4 months back. The fuel filter and fuel pump was replace about 2 years ago.

I have pulled one of the plug wires and the spark on that plug does look good. When I replaced the plugs, plug wires, distributor cap and rotor, the car did start for about a minute and then seemed to flood out again and hasn't started since.

I am thinking about checking the timing chain. Haven't yet because it's such a big job. About the only thing I know of left I can do.

Tnks for any suggestions and help.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

It's a long shot, but pull the distributor cap again and check it's insides and the rotor. Make sure the cap is seated on the dizzy right, and that that no cracks, worn/rubbed places, etc. are there.

I'd also try to verify TDC and my timing tab with where the rotor points while at TDC to make sure the timing is close enough to start. That might also eliminate pulling the timing chain cover....

Dr.NickRiviera

Swear, curse, yell, and behave like a spoiled little kid. That's what I do. Works most of the time too.

tlgrooms

I have done plenty of that over the last month, believe me. So far it's gotten me nowhere. Codes are finally clear on the ECM tho.

Red25thRS

i usually hit stuff with a wrench and it works for me...if im not mistakin even if it does flood it out shouldnt it somewhat fire instead of just cranking for the first couple secs

tlgrooms

It will turn over until the battery goes dead.. Trying to start but never quite making it. If I hold my fingers over the injectors to keep gas from coming out it seems to want to start even more but never quite does...