RyanSS

ok, just got done putting on my hooker supercomp LT's and CVT protorque mini-starter. Had to shim and reshim the starter, relocate knock sensor to other side of the block and finally got it all wedged in there.
it was running with only headers, so the o2 sensor is sitting on the intake manifold. I let it sit and idle(revved it to the redline several times) for a total of 20 minutes, with no problems.
then i take it out on the road in front of my house(at 10:30pm) damn, it was badass!
yeah, badass until it dies, and everything electrical goes out after 15 sec at WOT!
So i'm going 65 in total darkness and when i get it stopped and open the hood the battery is on fire!!!
All i know is that there is a large hole in the battery and it looks like someone tried to weld the cable to the battery terminal.
that heater hose that sticks out along the passenger side valve cover was leaking coolant, and i may have had a little too much coolant in it, but i can't see how that would cause the problem.
anyway, i have no idea what happened so please help!!!!!!!




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89 RS (supposed 350) TBI auto

Black Beauty

were in the same boat LOL...but your a few steps back

look at your positive battery cable, where it passes teh headers...it is most likely half burned away. it will then heat up the wire, and melt away teh lead on teh battery terminal, and maybe even catch fire.

get a new cable, wrap it in lots of foil and presto..your good to go

Black Beauty

i just installed those Hooker LTs too. many problems, did u have many?

i didnt know i had to lift the engine.

also...how did u relocate the knock sensor to the other side....i ended up breaking mine, and ghetto rigging it

i ran open headers for a few days too, now im running open y pipe.

does it backfire etc?

RyanSS

yeah lots of problems. still can't get the motor mount on the passenger side tightened all the way. i had to get the header bolts on that side tightened in just the right order for it to fit.
BTW, it was the -Negative- battery terminal. i haven't checked anything else yet, waiting for daylight.
I'll keep y'all updated

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89 RS (supposed 350) TBI auto

RyanSS

oh, backfired at first, but then i realized i had some plug wires mixed up, now it's fine.

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89 RS (supposed 350) TBI auto

Black Beauty

yep, certain order for the bolts
same with removing them, only backwards.

i forgot how i tightened mine...i remember it was hard though. oh...i put a small socket and ratchet in there and torqued it down from the right side....then removed the ratchet/socket from the left (it was stuck though)

hmm...my car still backfires, from the NO backpressure issue.

oh...and i melted my pos wire, and the battery terminal (on the battery) so i figured you did too.

i need a new batt now

dhirocz

iTrader: (2)

I've heard of this. Check the resistance of the positive cable to the starter. If it passes and doesn't run close to the headers, you're OK there. I've seen batteries literally explode. One guy in a HD truck pulled in and the battery was somking. Dumbass was stabbing at it. I pulled him away and it exploded a second later. Sometimes it's an internal short in the battery. Sometimes the alternator loads up the battery and it gets so hot it catches fire. Check the positive battery cable, alternator output and diodes, and obviously replace the battery. Also a good idea to check negtive to ground. It'll probably be easy to find the problem.

RyanSS

Thanks guys that is what happened, the positive cable grounded on the header.
ok, i replaced the battery and the bad wires, and re-routed all the wires going to the starter around the header. i also checked all the blade fuses under the dash and replace the ACC one.

When i turn the key, nothing happens, like the battery isn't even connected. i know the battery is good, and i can't see any thing else wrong visually.

What could be causing this? bad ignition? Alternator? coil? distributor?



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89 RS (supposed 350) TBI auto

Scott C

By frying the battery and cable, you probably also have other burnt components. I'd check the starter first, since that's where the positive battery cable goes to, then the alternator (should still start with new batt), then the distributor & coil. I'm sure at least one of those is fried.

I bet you all learned a painfull lesson, huh? Check all components & cables for clearance after a header or starter swap!!

Stoopalini

When I was installing my stereo equipment, I grounded out the pos battery terminal to the chassis by accident with the rachet.

After that, I disconnected the battery and installed everything. When I reconnected the battry, everything was fine except it wouldn't start.

Lights worked, radio worked, but when I turned the key ... nothing. Not even a click.

It turned out to be the 2 small VATS wires that connect to the lock cylinder in the steering column. I don't know how the battery-to-frame short caused that, but bypassing the VATS got me running again.

Maybe because the wires that go to the lock cylinder are so small, they fry with just the smallest increase in current??? I dunno ..... just something to consider.

Good luck,

Thomas.

RyanSS

Ok, one problem solved, another found. i guess when i was securing the wires, a wire going to the starter got disconnected.
So now the car cranks, but will not start up. i've checked and double checked the wires and can't find anything.
Could this be my coil?

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89 RS (supposed 350) TBI auto

RyanSS

ANYBODY?

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89 RS (supposed 350) TBI auto

RyanSS

back to top.

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89 RS (supposed 350) TBI auto

Black Beauty

does your fuel pump prime? can you hear it ticking when your turn the key to ON but not start?

if not, try some starting fluid and see if thatll get you running.

RyanSS

ok, it starts, but will not stay running. the injectors do not pulse at all, i guess i need new injectors, or could it be something else?

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89 RS (supposed 350) TBI auto

formula90

if you are not getting pulse to your injectors, check your coil and ignition module. its free to check....but it amazes me that just because of all that other stuff, this happens to go out as well....
at first i thought you blew a fusible link, but since you can crank your car but it will not turn over, then it aint that. Your just not getting fuel right? Surly your injectors arent out. I doubt that. make sure all your iginition components are plugged up. Check your BAT connection at the distributer. make sure it is getting juice there. if not, then back track from there. You maybe could still have a fusible link out. but start there and let us know.

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formula90

ah i just checked your info. You have TBI. other than what I replied to above, make sure your ignition module is good above all things. If its out, you will not get injector pulse at all.

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RyanSS

the car will turn over just will not stay running due to no fuel(injectors not pulsing)
i can pour gas into the TB, and it will start, but will only run as long as the gas i poured in lasts.

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89 RS (supposed 350) TBI auto

RyanSS

and how do i check my ignition module?

THanks for all the replies.

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89 RS (supposed 350) TBI auto

JP84Z430HP

Before you crank it, with the switch in the "ON" position, do you get a MIL (Check Engine, or Service Engine Soon light)? If not, the ECM fuse blew. I think it gets power directly off the positive battery cable with an fuse inline with it.

If the MIL works, are you getting fuel pressure? You can crack the pressure line to the throttle body, and you should have some fuel come out of it.

I'm gonna stop there, because I really think it's one of those, especially the ECM power supply.

Good luck!

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Working on:
'84 Z28 LG4 305 with 200,000 original miles!
Added dual elec fans.
145 MPH IROC Speedo
Building 430 HP 350 (ZZ430)
using primarily GMPP parts.
Short block sitting on a stand. (Man, those Fast-Burn heads sitting on it look good!)

Starting to look like the Kicker poster child!

ASE Certified Master Tech

formula90

of course your car runs if you pour fuel into it!! you are replacing the job of the injectors! Before you start driving around town with your best friend under the hood with a can of gas, just run over to ANY auto parts place and give em your ignition module and they will take it from there. the ignition module is located under the distributer cap and rotor. it looks like one of this depending on your set-up. If you are running a stock HEI with divorced coil, then it should look like the one shown below.Just take that there and get it tested. This module MUST work for the injectors to work.. Do this first and well go from there. Only reason why I know cause it happened to my roommates


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[This message has been edited by formula90 (edited May 25, 2001).]

RyanSS

thanx guys it'll probably be a couple days before i can get to fixing it , but i'll take that ignition module to a parts store and keep y'all posted.

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89 RS (supposed 350) TBI auto

Black Beauty

before you go takin **** apart, call the auto parts store, cuz not ANY parts store can test it. i work for the largest auto parts store in the west coast, and we do not test them.

are u using the key? or are you jumping the solenoid....im gonna go reread your posts.

if your using the key, its not vats, but i thought i read somewhere that you couldnt use the key.

did u check all your fuses?
does your fuel pump prime? (itll tick when u put the key to ON.

try giving power to the fuel pump relay (driver side firewall) (there will be two large relays, one is the fan relay, one is the FP relay) try to give power to the wires that go into it...i forget what color, i THINK its green.

formula90

well maybe not ALL of em, but most of the chain stores do. its to easy of a deal not to check. Especially since it might be the problem.

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RyanSS

Ok, the fuel pump doesn't prime with the key in the "ON" position. Nor does it prime when I connect the (green and white(yes, that's the right color)) wire directly to a 12 volt source. I had my ignition module tested(at autozone), it is good. Does all this mean I blew my fuel pump(seriously hope not) or is there a fuse in some special place for it? Or did I short out part of my ECM?

I was reading in my Chilton manual and it says that if the relay is bad, the pump runs through the oil pressure switch. My oil pressure gauge doesn't work, does any of this matter?

Also, my fuel pump is almost new, it has less than 100 miles on it. So I wouldn't think it got shorted out, but you never know.


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89 RS (supposed 350) TBI auto

RyanSS

.

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89 RS (supposed 350) TBI auto

RyanSS

i'm about to take the ECM out and have it tested at autozone, can't think of anything else to do short of replacing fuel pump.

I'm out of ideas.

Anybody?

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89 RS (supposed 350) TBI auto

Black Beauty

could be a FP fuse, cuz that green wire is the bypass...it should prime it even if the FP relay is bad.

its something farther back, check for power at the FP.
did u have the key in ON when you gave the green wire power....
are you sure it wasnt the fan relay you were toyin with?
id just try all the wires at both relays, to see what kind of reactions you get.

and YES, oil pressure has to do with it.
i think it uses it as a back up, and if there is NO oil pressure, it wont allow the engine to start, as a safety feature.

RyanSS

ok, autozone can't test ECM's, the guy I talked to on the phone didn't know what he was talking about. i tested both relays, neither gave the FP power. How do I give the FP direct power? Is that fuse in the fuse box? is there anything else it could be? also, where does the oil pressure gauge connect? and what causes a loss of oil pressure?

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89 RS (supposed 350) TBI auto

RyanSS

ok, can't figure anything else out, gonna check all the grounds and if they are good i'm gonna replace the fuel pump.

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89 RS (supposed 350) TBI auto

PETE

iTrader: (1)

check the fuel pump fuse under the dash it might be simple as that or could be the wiring to the pump there is a way to give direct power to the pump however i dont know which terminal to jump from the relay should be in a hayes maanual though

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87 trans am 350 L98 aluminum heads,LT4 hot cam,slp runners,headers,y-pipe,edelbrock base,hi flo cat,air foil,ported plenum,t-5 tranny w/centerforce clutch and a 3.27 9bolt,ads strip chip,relocated iat sensor,hollowed maf

14.10@97mph w/2.01 60'

Stell1579

to test the pump , jackup the car goto the back just above the rear axle yo uwill see a plug on the body, i am pretty sure its 3 wires there. one is ground one is the fuel pump positive and the other is for the sending unit for the fule level guage.
the wire procedes from the body to the tank, just ground the wire that ssuposto be grounded and put 12v to the fule pump's pos line.. only problem is i dont know wich wire is witch the wiring diagrams in the hanes or chilton book should have it


-Stell

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1988 Pontiac Trans Am. 305 TPI Mods=MSD 6A+Coil+Wires, K & N, SLP AirFoil,180 Thermostat, Cold Air, Hooker Aerochamber Catback

1974 Dodge Charger , Currently restoring but has a 318 with Crane Cam, Carter AFB 4BBl Carb sitting on a Weiand Stealth Intake

RIP 1988 IROC-Z
http://stell15790.tripod.com/cars.htm

87 IROC 350 TPI

there's also a single fuse right beside the battery that will keep the car from starting. I'm not real sure what it control's but I had similar problem's and that fuse was blown took me day's to even realize there was a fuse there. It bolt's to the inner fender right beside the battery.

Steve89GTA

I had a fuseable link go bad on me for a while. It would cause the voltage to jump up to 17 volts and throw a code (ses) "high voltage". I replaced the fuse but ended up replacing - battery/starter/alternator/coil/distributor/
plugs and wires! (there may be more).

Scott C

Crank but no fuel sounds like VATS to me. We recently swapped engines in 2 Camaros and the car with the new engine would not start. Same thing: it cranked all day, but no fuel. We wound up having it towed to the dealer who relaced a couple of wires at the back of the passenger side cylinder head. Right where the ground strap bolts to the back of the head.

No sense going on a wild goose chase all over the car. Stick close to the area where the problem originally occured (engine compartment). Good luck...

RyanSS

I connected a test wire to the beige wire at the fuel pump relay, it runs!! But only when I connect it directly to the battery.
I bought a new fuel pump relay to see if that fixed it, but nothing.
I looked at the diagram in my chilton manual, and it says there is a circuit that's open. any ideas where(inside engine compartment) the open could be? i'll check behind the passenger side cylinder head tomorrow.

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89 RS (supposed 350) TBI auto