WaaX

well the auto shop teacher that once told me to bring my car in is now saying no, since it could be the fuel pump he doesnt want to subject over 100 students to gas fumes, he said its different if only 3 or 4 mechanics get subjected to it, but not 100+ students. BLAH

im doing the back door method, i dont have the knowledge or experience to get the tank out of there, im not really worried, ill clean it up real nice and seal it off all nice and pretty with some sheet metal, screwes, and some type of sealent, oh well, live and learn..

i hate being poor.

WaaX

http://www.taekwondoplus.org/z28/fuelpump.html

thats on a newer camaro, but the idea is the same, seems simple enough

only questions i have are:

1. how close are the lines to the floor board,

2. what would be a safe tool to use to cut the hole?

WaaX

please dont flame, im a 19 year old kid with an 86 z28, the car isnt in the best condition in fact its pretty rusted to hell, its not a show car so im not really concerned about a hole, considering there is a bigger hole where drivers feet go (carpets there, just not the metal) so please, dont turn this into a flame thread

I KNOW ITS A HACK, I KNOW YOU SHOULDNT DO IT, but i dont care.

im poor, and dont have the time or the right spot to do it at, i live in michigan, my garage is off limits because my dads 98 v6 pussytang is taking up the space and he allready said no, so yeah, if i were to drop the tank out, it would be in my driveway when its about to snow, pfft, yeah okay..

i dont have the money to get it done at a shop, so honestly, this is my only chioce, and like i said, my car isnt a show car, so whatever, a hole wont change anything

84camz28

yeah its pretty much the same concept as the 4th gen. but i wouldnt reccomend what my friend and i did to his sisters v6. we used a grinder and had a fire extinguisher close by. we cut the hole towards the back seat then we cut the lines and put rubber fuel line in. then we double clamped all the hoses on both sides. it was pretty easy.but it was nerve racking because my friend is pretty crazy with electric tools. and the lines are about 3/4 to an inch down so be careful

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

1. how close are the lines to the floor board?
very close, less than an inch away.


2. what would be a safe tool to use to cut the hole?
tin snips.

i don't think i would drill any holes in the floor board with the fuel tank in the car, reason being just as the drill bit goes through the floor board it will pull itself through in an instant & possibly punch a hole in the fuel tank, & may possibly start a fire.
if you do replace the fuel pump that way, just use a bead of silicone sealant around the outside of the hole in the floorboard & lay the new piece of metal over the hole & then put something heavy on it & let it sit over night, the silicone once cured will act like a glue & hold the cover plate on pretty good.

i would have a good fire extinguisher rated for gasoline fires very close by.

sellmanb

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=264787

that thread will tell you everything you need to know to do this.

Please dont blow yourself up

THEGENERAL

1. why its not that difficult to do it the correct way .??

2. if you dont have the knowledge or experience to take a gas tank out then you really shouldnt be cutting above a gas tank and slicing up your fuel lines to do it the wrong way

3.

4. thats still not the proper way to install a trap door on a car for fuel pump access and these cars were never designed to have one or they would have had it installed from the factory and been crash tested with it in place ..gives you something to think about now doesnt it

5. and you will

6. dont we all ..

87Formula4bbl

I would suggest an air chisel. Seems to slice through the sheet metal pretty easily.

That being said, I would do it the right way if I were you. It's not easy to get the sending unit out through a little hole without bending lines, and that's from personal experience. I hate to see people cut up their floors to remove a pump, even if it is a piece of junk car. I did it to my brothers not-so-nice Camaro, and I felt guilty afterwards. You would find out that taking the tank out is not so bad, I think the hardest part for me was getting the old fuel line connections apart to drop the tank. Honestly, I don't think it's a whole lot more work than cutting up your floor and hard lines.

ljnowell

Perhaps you should try the dynamite method? Jus stick some under the carpet, light the fuse, and run. Seriously, just do it the right way.

WaaX

okay, my problems with doing it the right way are as follows (in importance of why i cant do it)

1. michigan, cold cold weather...

2. exhaust welded on, hangers are welded

3. car is badly rusted, getting the tanks straps loose would be a days worth of work alone

4. tanks 3/4ths full of gasoline (mid-grade too, not like that makes a difference)

5. lack of ANY suspension expierence

6. im scared of getting into something way over my head.

i know general, you hate me, its allright

also i dont have a compresor, so an air chisel is kinda out of the question, same with any air tools.


also, the auto shop teacher was telling me he had to help his friend replace the fuel pump in his friends 87 firebird, and he said it was a pain in the *** for him along with his friend to do it, and those are two people who know what they are doing, im someone who doesnt know what he is doing.

ive never worked on suspension, i dont know how to drop the rear end, i dont know what it takes in order to drop the tank step by step, when i did the biggest work i ever did on a car that was replacing the head gaskets on a 3.8l ford, and i only did that because the car was sitting in front of my house for a good half year and i got sick of looking at it.

this car is an exception, i need to get it running, but i dont have the knowledge/expierence to drop the tank, also my car is pretty heavily rusted so i could imagine how impossible it would be for me to undo the tank straps (ive heard they are a pain to begin with, let alone rusted to hell)

the hack job seems like a really really nice alternative

I DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT A FUEL PUMP LOOKS LIKE (laugh at me, i know youre going to)

so yeah, seriously, the back door method is the lesser of the two evils for me, so thats why im leaning that way

WaaX

oh yeah let me not forget

i have no reliable way of holding up the car high enough, i have jack stands, but i dont even have a jack any more, the jack that came with my car crushed while i was replacin the starter (not while i was under it, but while i was jacking it up) so i have to borrow a jack, but i seriously doubt jack stands are going to hold the car up high enough

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

WaaX said, I KNOW ITS A HACK, I KNOW YOU SHOULDNT DO IT, please dont flame, its pretty rusted to hell, im poor and dont have the time or the right spot to do it at, if i were to drop the tank out, it would be in my driveway when its about to snow, i dont have the money to get it done at a shop.

he was going to have it done at the school, but the teacher backed out, so lets give him a brake & chill,....
here is an ideal, someone here who lives close to him can tow his car to their house & help him drop the tank & do it the right way, or better yet, someone can GIVE him the cash to get it done at a shop. how does that sound?
i think those who are screaming about its wrong to do it that way, he is a hack for doing that way should get together & send him the money.
he knows its the wrong way to do it,... but has no other choice.
if you have been where he is at, you know what its like... if you haven't been where he is at,... you have no ideal what is like, so don't talk about someone who is there.

WaaX

oh yeah let me not forget

i have no reliable way of holding up the car high enough, i have jack stands, but i dont even have a jack any more, the jack that came with my car crushed while i was replacin the starter (not while i was under it, but while i was jacking it up) so i have to borrow a jack, but i seriously doubt jack stands are going to hold the car up high enough

also, someone in another thread said this:

now that has gotten my interest, can i buy an inline pump and go about it that way? is it safe to draw gas from the dead pump?

WaaX

damn man, thanks, haha yeah that would be ideal for even my own parents to give me money, but thats not happening, my parents stoped buying food for the house as soon as i turned 18, its more less of a situation where they gave me a place to sleep, allthough it really sucks because i cant even close my door when my girlfriends over, haha.. oh well...

if someone does live around the clinton township area in michigan that would be willing to help me..ill be forever in your debt, but i doubt thats going to happen

and as far as people sending me money..
my address is 1578...yeah okay...

i wouldnt feel right having annonymous people send me money :P

im curious, i havent called a shop yet because i know how shops can be a gamble as to how much money youre going to end up spending, and since i work at mcdonalds and they barely give me 30 hours a week (they are ******..) then i wouldnt be able to afford a mechanic, ive heard people it would cost around 300 all the way up to 1000

i mean, if someone can hook me up with a bad *** job, that would be the best bet

haha, but whatever..
i cant even pay to have the car towed to my house, i have to have my girlfriends dad tow my car with tow straps about 20 miles keeping my fingers crossed the whole time that the lines dont snap..

i wish my car didnt decide to die when it did, and where it did. kinda sucks.. oh well, there aint **** i can do.

but yeah, thats why im saying that the hack is my only choice

sure, i would LOVE to do it the right way, but thats getting over my head, and the hack just looks so damn sexy to me..

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

as far as i know you can't draw gas through a dead pump, but i have never tried it. it may work.

i can hear it now, that im a hack, oh well, i run inline fuel pumps on my monte carlo for 2 reasons, 1 my tank does not have a baffle in it, 2, i drop tanks on other people's cars, not my own.

i use 2 inline pumps, 1 is a cheap supply pump to get fuel to the high pressure ford truck pump that is mounted up at the front of the car. high pressure pumps do not draw fuel very good. i have been running like this for about 3 & a half years. about 3 weeks ago the high pressure pump died, it lasted a lot longer than what i thought it would.
the reason i went with the pumps i have are the fact i can get them at most any parts house, even autozone if i have to.

kevinc

Hey pal, that's way too much info!! Just don't try to get married or the evil Republicans will get you.

THEGENERAL

running an inline pump is an ideal way of doing things but you may or may not be able to pull thru the dead pump ....on my 88 gmc pickup when i switched from tbi injected 305 to a carbed 350 we went with a pump on the block and did out the intake pump but left it in for now and it is drawing thru it just fine but ive head of others not being so lucky .....

but running an inline pump is the best solution that way you only have to drop the tank one time and not cut up your car in the process ....

as far as jack stands go thats what ive used when we drop the tank on a camaro or firebird just borrow a jack and jack that sucker up as far as you can

kevinc

The late Sam Kinnison answered this in the context of helping the poor starving desert-dwellers. "IT'S A DESERT!! NOTHING GROWS IN THE DESERT!! GO WHERE THE FOOD IS!! AAAAGGGG!!!"

This guys low income should be forcing a decision. Maybe a high-maintenance, aging sports car isn't the right thing for him.

Today it's a fuel pump...what's next to fail?

I've been there. Traded in my pride 'n joy '75 TA back in college for a used Honda that would start every time and be near-zero maintenance, as I wouldn't have time or money to keep the TA running.

JesasaurusRex

iTrader: (3)

Where do you live oh young one thats the same age as me If you live near me ill help you do it (at my house if u want). The right way ofcourse, not as hard as you think.

THEGENERAL

same goes for me i live in staunton illinois you any where close to that ??

87Formula4bbl

430T/A

Heres a voice of reason::

THATS THE DUMBEST THING TO DO!

Its not hard to drop the tank, sure its tougher than on another car, buts its still not bad. All you have to do is drop the panhard rod/support, pull the rear sway bar mounts, and presto, lower the rearend. Then, take off the gas door, and the black plastic stuff. This will allow for some more wiggle room. Then, you'll pull the lines off, then the straps. And Voila, your tank is out. I did it in 4 hours, in and out. And that was in a bonafied Buffalo, salt lovin car, with no air tools, so I don't wanna here any crybaby storys. And I was 18, working outsde in febuary, in gravel, SO CRY ME A RIVER. its not hard. its just foolish to slice a hole in floor, to save some time, especially since that parts of the floor is an integral part of teh car's structure. it makes no sense.

WaaX

hah structural integrity, hah...


okay, let me let you in on a little something called my beast..

you know in the hatch, how each side has a removable panel, one for the spair and one has a locked compartment...yeah.. well both of those you can see ground.. i cant even keep anything in the locked compartment because it wont be in my car for very long, so structural integrity is the last thing im concerned about


but like i said, my exhaust is pretty much stuck on there, i really really really dont want to cut it off, thats just even more money i would have to pay.

also, general, you mentioned about the in line fuel pump and how i would only have to drop the tank once, is that after i get some time and feel like taking the dead pump out? or is that part of the process in installing the in line.

not even sure what im going to do still, i havent even gotten my car home >.<

WaaX

lol, i got the car for 600 dollars, i almost got a 96 trans am for 4500 but couldnt get a loan

let me list of the things wrong with my car:

1. 120k miles

2. no power steering

3. harmonic balancer needs to be replaced

4. radiator needs 2 galons of water everytime i drive ( i NEED to replace that before winter, so the water jackets dont go, but im pretty screwed on that, i need to get my car home, and drain out the radiator)

5. nice old dent from the previous owner in the passenger fender

6. middle piece of spoiler is missing, alos from the previous owner

7. rusted to hell, i dont have any floor under where my feet go, but i do have carpet, also the back of the car in the hatch has some nice sized rust holes

8. passenger door has no bottom, the ground effects piece broke off and once again, rusted to hell, i took the door panel off to fix the window track problem, and realised it has no bottom

9. doors lock, but i can only unlock it from the passenger side, the drivers side lock is loose, i need to get a retaining clip of some sort

10. struts need replacing

11. ball joints need replacing

12. inner tie rod ends need replacing

13. i think a bearing needs replacing in my front drivers side tire

14. pitman arm needs replacing

15. yeah.....

600 dollar special baby!

and i thought i got a good deal...hah

but i do love my car very very much...

it just needs some tlc and some money..


**** mcdonalds

WaaX

i just realised something, why is there a pontiac symbol next to the profile/pm/email/search/buddy buttons, there should be a chevy symbol on the other side of those...thats no fair...

ljnowell

Dude, i am sorry that i said what I did. Its obvious this car is a beater, and you arent going to fix it up. I dont blame you for that, sounds like a decent temporary car though. Cut the **** ing hole and be done with it. Its probably going to the junkyard next anyway, right?

THEGENERAL

man get a gun and put that thing out of its misery ......

hey did you start another thread about this car going to the auto shop to have them fix this ???

are you sure they will even let you bring that in the door .???...LOL...J/K

do what you got to do but it sounds like a good car to learn how to do it one to me..

WaaX

in all honesty, i would LOVE to fix the car up, i really really want to, i want this car to last me as long as i can, i need a better job!

im honestly willing to save up money to have the engine rebuilt, and then get a new rear end and hopefully by then the trans will still hold up so i can save more money to have that replaced.

the body damage doesnt really bother me, i would love to make my car into a sleeper that would take on *blasphemy*mustangs*/blasphemy*

as sick as this sounds, i might be getting a job doing crime scene clean up (cleaning up dead bodies, brains, infectious waste..etc) and that pays REALLLY REALLY REALLLLLY good, up to 8 grand a job, that would totally rock my world, and im the type of person taht it wouldnt really bother, so i dont know, i just need money and some time, and i dont have either

mcdonalds sucks, and so does the job market in the area i live in, its suburbia hell, a strip mall every 30 feet, cant go more than half a mile with out seeing a nail salon, its sad, i would love to get my hands on a good computer job, im a nerd at heart, i even know how to use linux, blah, it sucks being 19

ljnowell

I know the computer job thing, i have been fighting my way through the IT industry for a while now. Its a tough road. Seriously man, if you have any plans of keeping the car for a long time, or fixing it up, dont hack the fuel pump. Its just not worth the time you will save.

WaaX

what im currious about honestly is what problems will it cause me other than the possibility of more rust and the lack of structural integrity ( i laugh at that word when it comes to my car ) other than that, i think its fine, i mean, i will be covering up the hole with sheet metal, silicone and screws, so its not like there will still be a hole there, plus carpets going to cover it

WaaX

haha im going to quote my girlfriend

THEGENERAL

you also have to cut your lines and reatach them somehow and hose clamps and rubber line dont work on a electric fuel pump ..youll have to flare the lines in that hole while its apart and then reatach them and thats always going to leave you with a thought of leaking fuel lines in the back of your car above your exhaust...not at all worth it to me ..

but its your car and yes the carpet will cover it but your never going to get it as strong as it was originally ...and if you truly like your car and plan on keeping it a long time dont cut it up its not at all worth it

its only going to take you 3-4 hours to do the job the right way and in order to make this backdoor way right your going to spend atleast that long on it to make it right ...

kevinc

Wow. If posting here creates the perception that I'm down at your level or hers, I'm in the wrong place.

WaaX

whats that suppose to mean

kevinc

I'm not anyone's "little buddy".

WaaX

yeah, i was just quoting her, whatever..

yeah i went to get a stereo i had stored in the hatch of my car today, and i noticed this pretty little sticker, i had to go out, buy tow straps and get the car towed to my girlfriends house, this weekend im taking the car to my house.

i checked the oil, it smells like gasoline, i figure because before the pump actually went out i flooded the engine, and since a valve seal or two is bad that the gas was forced through those and in turn, got gas into my oil, could be something completley different, like a bad ring or anything of that sort, i cant wait to get it home, i plan on putting it in my garage and redoing the top end, all new gaskets, and possibly roller rockers and other misc upgrades, im going to keep it in the garage for as long as i can, and save up my money so i can fix it right and fix it nice.

blah, so it might not be the fuel pump after all, i have to do a compresion test, blah here goes another 40 dollars on a tool im going to use once! yay!

87Formula4bbl

I know what ya mean, thats why I try and mooch them from others. Haha.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

i been thinking,... which is dangerous in itself,... you said the car is a rust bucket, rusted out floor boards, rear quarter panels & probably a lot more than that. 1 of the shops i worked at we did things like replacing rusted out floor boards, it is a major job even for a shop to do & it isn't cheap.
i think do enough to it to just keep it running & safe to drive. later on im sure you can find a much nicer 1 that has a good clean body with little rust. shoot, back before i found this site i sold a 84 that needed minor body work, a paint job, tires, had very little rust, a good interior, good glass all around, needed 1 wheel for a matched set of IROCs, no motor, trans, or exhaust for $250.00. im sure there are others out there like that.

the gas would have probably gotten into the oil past the rings, check the fuel pressure regulator to see if its leaking.
you should be able to rent a compression gage from a local auto parts.

about the crime scene cleanup job, good luck on getting it, if you do, get some of those plastic HAZMAT suites.

WaaX

whats a small car that i could drop this engine into without much trouble? i would love a pocket rocket/sleeper

WaaX

also, where is the fuel pressure regulator located? *sorry for the idiot question*

kevinc

So...dropping the fuel tank is beyond your scope...


"im poor and dont have the time or the right spot to do it at, if i were to drop the tank out, it would be in my driveway when its about to snow, i dont have the money to get it done at a shop. "


...but now you're up to an engine swap?

kevinc

It's on the rear of the fuel rail.

slp352

I have a 1992 Camaro RS with the same problem as yours. It died on the way to work this morning, but its all good I was only 7 short blocks from the office so I walked the rest of the way, good thing it wasn't cold yet. Anyway I do remember seeing an access panel in my trunk when I was replacing my shocks. So I am assuming that one of the previous owners had taken the time to cut open the trunk already, so I have been relieved of the guilt of cutting open my trunk. But I think I would have done it anyway since I only paid $1100 for the car and its my winter beater and I really don't feel like dropping all those parts out of my way.

bulletboy29

1. Jack up car and place on jack stands (borrow from a neighbor, friend, etc.)
2. Cut muffler - easier and safer than cutting into fuel lines!
3. Remove trackbar and brace, sway bar mounts, and muffler heat shield - not hard!
4. Unbolt shocks - easy!
5. Unbolt tank after removing cap, plastic surround and disconnecting lines - very easy!
6. Drop tank while cursing for few minutes. There is almost always someone on this site that can help if you run into a problem!

Installation is reverse of removal.

The other way:
1. Remove carpet.
2. Cut hole....oops! Was that a fuel line? BOOM!
3. Funeral

I dropped the tank without any help. I have a hip replacement and my back is fused together, so I probably did a little more cursing than you would!

slp352

You know I question the logic of a automotive company that places the fuel pump in the top of the tank then doesn't give you an access panel to replace it with. Maybe its a conspiracy to give the dealerships more service work. And then they had the nerve to go ahead and do the same thing on the 4th gen. I had my 4th gen in the shop to replace a senser at the gas tank and they had to drop my exhaust, rear end, and tank. Then they put the exhaust back on wrong.

430T/A

just out of moribd curiousity, what type of diagonistic work have you done to determine that the pump is wasted? or re you ASSuming its the pump?

JerseyMark

iTrader: (2)

I dont think I have ever heard of someone using a 3rd gen camaro as a WINTER beater? They arent the best cars to be driving around in the snow! hahaha

slp352

well I am not 100 percent sure, but I am 95% sure, just in the way it died, the power just trailed off and then the engine just down and I coasted to the side of the road. Well I wasn't planning on using a camaro for a winter beater but it was one of those I cannot pass up deals. And it came with snow tires and an extra front clip, rear hatch, and two extra doors. So for the money I think it was a good deal. I figure the only thing a two wheel drive truck would have over me would be ground clearance.

THEGENERAL

I also have dropped the tank in these cars its not as hard as people make it out to be its basicly just as you described and i know exactly how you felt i too have a fused back and it doesnt make it any easier...LOL

And i think we made up a few new curse words while doing my brothers tank ....LMAO

But when your done you dont have to worry later on about leaky gas lines that you cut up when doing the HACK job of cutting up your car .

WaaX

i dont hear it priming up anymore, im replacing the oil pressure sensor, i would go more in detail in this post but im pressed for time, ill write more later, thanks