dailydriver

My front oil seal was leaking terribly so I decided to put a new timing chain/gear set on while I had the engine exposed. I now have the timing chain/gear exposed and was wondering if I could just take the old set off and install the new ones in exactly the same spot as the old ones without going to TDC. There is only one way these gears go on anyway because of the shear pin on the crankshaft and the "guide pin" on the camshaft. Maybe I'm just inexperienced and maybe this is a stupid question...if so, sorry. If I do have to go to TDC what is the best way to turn the engine? All I have is the crankshaft end sticking out. Thanks for the help.

ME Leigh

I doesn't matter really where the gears are if the cam and crank are in the right place. So it should work great. Just make sure the cam or crank doesn't move or you will have to bring #1 or #6 to TDC to align them.

RB83L69

While not necessary, it would be VERY wise to line the dots up before you take it apart, so that there will be no error as you put it back together.

ME Leigh

I agree totally, it the safe way to do it. Just bump the starter around alittle till it lines up.

Grim Reaper

I just want to add my voice to this pearl of wisdom. In fact, I ALWAYS set my engine to TDC #1 whenever I go inside the engine....this way I know where I started from.

Also, now that digitial cameras are cheap as dirt, I now take pictures at various steps as I tear down the engine. There is always some wire, bolt, hose or connector that you are never quite sure how it came apart...especially if it is a "winter project" that takes more than a few days to complete.

A picture truly can be worth a thousand words.

Also, when you are 'close' to TDC, I will remove half the spark plugs (to make it easer) and then throw a socket on a breaker bar or large ratchet to get it exactly to TDC #1. (I keep saying TDC #1, because the timing marks on the balancer also line up on #6). I usually look at the rockers to make sure it's #1 or note the alignment of the rotor relative to #1 and #6.

Stekman

That is what I have to rotate the engine via the crankshaft snout. Works like a charm.

Keep in mind, the piston hits TDC TWICE per combustion cycle. Dot-to-dot, as it is commonly installed, is #1 TDC alright. However, it is #1 TDC exhaust. You want firing. Also, whille #1 is at TDC, so is #6. They are just at opposite stages. So if #1 is on exhaust, #6 will be TDC firing. So, if you install dot-to-dot, just be sure to set the distributor to the #6 firing.

If you haven't yanked the set yet, I like to bring the engine around to dot-to-dot BEFORE i rip it off, that way I don't have to futz around with setting the dizzy afterwards.

And thats the woodruff key on the crankshaft and the dowel pin on the cam Just a tidbit irrelevant to this thread.

dailydriver

Thanks for all of the replies. I also noticed the timing gear has red teeth. I guess this is the OE "poly" I have read about? (Not too bad for 206,000 miles.) Also, Stekman, where did you get the tool you put on the crankshaft snout to turm the engine? Thanks again for the words of wisdom.

RB83L69

Moroso 61760

Same one that I have

ede

guess i'm a cheap bastard, i made mine. piece of pipe welded to a socket turned on lathe with slot milled in it. cost nothing to me, not sure what the companey has in it

Stekman

Yup, I got mine from an engine shop friend. When I first got into engines, he said I "may need one." Sure enough....

They are available through Summitracing.com and jegs.com. Your local speed shop or maybe even Autozone or something may have one. Just use the part number RB supplied (Sorry, I should have included the p/n im my post). It's like $25ish at summit.

ME Leigh

If you really want to get creative, pull all the plugs and turn the crank with the balancer. I just grab ahold of the balancer with both hand and give it some force, works good for me atleast.

dailydriver

well, i have it all back together now... but.. it will not start....it just turns over and over...acts like it is not firing....is this common after replacing timing chain.....do i need to move distributor? where do i begin??

F-BIRD'88

Assuming ya got the new timing chain and gear on right, (you did align the timing marks on the gears? right?) the most probabile cause is the distributor is 180deg out of wack.

When you line up the timing marks on the timing gears the engine is in the TDC#6 fireing position. If you left it like that and installed the distributor with the rotor pointing to #1 spark plug., then the distributor is 180deg out.

After you install the gears and chain with the timing marks aligned, you need to rotate the engine's crankshaft 1 complete revolution to bring it to TDC firing position on #1 cylinder. Then the diistributor is ready to be dropped in and the rotor aligned with #1 spark plug.

F-BIRD'88

..

dailydriver

i did not take the distributor off...i lined up the marks (#6 TDC) then installed the new gear and chain...afterwards i made sure rotor button was still pointing to #6...then put everything back together...

F-BIRD'88

Does it have spark?

Put a timing light on it and see if the timing is in the ballpark while cranking over the starter. If its not maybe the timing gears are out a tooth.

RB83L69

It should run.

DO NOT touch the distributor "timing"; that is NOT the problem. The distributor location must be lined up with the cam (i.e. the #1 spark occurs when the #1 valves are closed, etc.); so if you don't disturb the relationship of the dist to the cam by twiddling it, then once the proper relationship of the cam to the crank is restored by the new timing chain, the whole engine will be in time.

Something is disconnected somewhere; like, power to the distributor. Resist the temptation to start adjusting and twiddling on stuff that isn't out of place; and instead, concentrate on finding the missing ingredient.

Fuel, spark, compression..... which one is missing? Don't touch anything until you find out. Then troubleshoot the disabled system.

I'm betting it's one simple little thing you did last month and have since forgot about, that now needs to be undone.

FAST RS

Dont you hate it when you are fixing something and do a side project while you have everything apart and when you are done it dosnet start or run right. I HATE IT since it happens every time i touch my car.

dailydriver

well, here's an update....I found a wire on the side of the distributor cap that had come unplugged...I plugged it back in and tried starting the car..It almost cranked, blew out a big puff of smoke, and that was it, back to turning over and over...so I pulled the plugs and wiped them dry because they were covered in gas...then i checked inside the distributor cap and found that the contacts were charred so i took sand paper and cleaned them (contacts are brass)...however, it still will not start, just turning over and over..so, tomorrow i guess i'll check for spark (it's getting fuel) unless there is something else someone might suggest...could my spark plugs be ruined now?(they are brand new) Thanks

sellmanb

sounds like you flooded the cylinders. take out all the spark plugs (and disconnect them from the plug wires, and put your plug wires away, not dangling), and tap the starter a couple revolutions to get it out if it hasnt seeped down your cylinder walls and into your oil already.

Not guaranteeing that will fix it, but it's a starting point.

ridecamro

well if you points are black that is a BAD thing. they should never turn colors... ever not after just trying to start. somthings worng thier cracked cap... arcking.... and change the oil.... you probally have a crap load of gas in it.... take each plug out hook it to each HTL and check for spark if spark is thier then good.... you said you have fuel good. know just compression check it with a compresion gague discontect you fuel and spark then see waht you comp is pre cyl. it won't be accurate put if it gives a reading thats ok thats fine... i'm gussing it's your spark.... take some brake cleaner and then spray each plug then wipe it off.... after doing that try to start it... if thiers spark... if thier fuel and if thiers comp. you will have a runing engien. even if you left a wire diconected it'll just run in limp home mode. or open loop. then find the problame

dailydriver

believe it or not, i went out a few minutes ago and the engine started!!...it smoked and sputtered a little and then idled just fine...maybe when i tried to start it two days ago ( with the wire on the distributor unplugged) it flooded really bad and just needed to sit
it is now idling smoothly...the only thing not working is my temperature gauge (maybe it's unplugged?) i'll check the connection at the thermostat housing tomorrow ( it's rainning now)
thanks to everyone who provided input

2new2funny

Now THAT's good news!

ridecamro

good job. well i gusse it wansn't that bad. but change your oil... asap.. you wil have gas in it which causes it to break down.. do this as a safty net so you don't break anything