deepstage69

iTrader: (2)

I went ahead and decided to try out the superflow heads on ebay, for 500 bucks, i think there pretty decent, the need some cleanup, as far as the castings go, nothing bad though. But i need help gettin a gasket for them the port measures 1.125 x 2.230 tall intake opening

Their already cut for 2.02/1.60 +.100 longer because of the .410 deck thickness, 64 cc chambers, 190 cc intake runners, angle plugs, bronze valve guides, machined for screw in studs, provisions for early or late style valve covers, cut for bigger springs.

Here are a few pics







I forgot but here are the supposed flow numbers
Lift Intake Exhaust
.200 118 86
.300 169 120
.400 214 146
.500 239 159
.600 259 162
.700 255 160

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Thinking of buying some myself..

Does a felpro-1205, or 1206 fit it ok??

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Thats not a 1205 or 1206 for sure.

Are these heads that fastburn style port on the lt1's/vortecs, that require a special tall manifold?

deepstage69

iTrader: (2)

I think they might, let me email the guy i got them from

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

There any casting numbers or anything else on the head?

I've been looking at the few auctions on ebay that have them. I'm not really that impressed by the flow numbers. I wonder how much porting can be done to them. As it stands they flow less than my sportsman-II's..

But unless they will mate up to a sbc intake, they're useless to me.


-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

And whats the plug angle? they like a l98 angle twords each other in the center, or like all straight back or all straight forward?

-- Joe

ME Leigh

Those look like raised runner heads. They could even be 18*.

deepstage69

iTrader: (2)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...e=STRK:MEWN:IT

There is the link to them, and yes they are like L98 angle plug.

deepstage69

iTrader: (2)

I dont know how much you can port them, but i think they would respond well to some exhaust porting, as the exhaust port are a little rough, intake arnt bad at all, im gonna put a little work on them, if i can find a place around me ill try to get them flow benched.

Also the heads are sold at Pro Comp too, there the same head.

For comparrison what does your sportsmans flow

23 Degree Valve Angle, 67cc Combustion Chamber, 190cc Raised Intake Runners,(will not work with standard intake runner height manifold)

I just read that in one of them.

Ill be able to give a little more info, on gaskets and such tomm.

Kevin

tom3

Looking at the chamber and the valve guides, those heads look to be really well finished. Keep us posted on what/how you get them fitted up.

deepstage69

iTrader: (2)

Ok i got the gaskets needed now, exhuast fel-pro 1404, and intake is 1244, the trim to fit ones.


Ill try to keep ya updated on them, thanks

Kevin

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

So. These actually will work with a standard SBC intake manifold?

The width is just way narrow. You'd have to port it to at least match your intake.. I'm assuming your intake is a 1204 or 1205?

Then the height is what scares me. Have you bolted your intake to them, to see if they're taller than the intake? I bet they are.

-- Joe

Trevor86TA

Those intake flow #s look decent but the exhaust is hardly 60% E/I. Are you planning on doing any work to them before installation?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Compared to what? You seen the flow numbers on an AFR-190?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

World Products Sportsman 11
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100 68 57
.200 132 102
.300 187 131
.400 225 150
.500 240 164
.600 243 162


AirFlow Research Alum. 190cc
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100 71 67
.200 144 121
.300 208 157
.400 244 188
.500 262 202
.600 261 211

Trevor86TA

20-30 cfm more exhaust flow at each point.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

AFR 190 flows more than a 195 btw.

Thats why everyone was bitching when they discontinued the 190s.

-- Joe

Trevor86TA

But IIRC, the intake port on the 190s didn't match up with the likes of a Vic. Jr. Either way, the flow numbers are better than AFRs own published 195 numbers:


So haven't we proved that the heads in the initial post need some help on the exhaust side?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Yep, and that the intake side isnt great either..

-- Joe

B4Ctom1

news flash # 1 those are pro action heads

I don't care what anyone tells you, what the seller tells you, even your own parents, THOSE ARE PRO ACTION HEADS

ebay sellers and speed shops have about 5 different names for them some have had the pro-action name removed before and after casting.

some ebay sellers have alered photos or even not made any detailed photos to keep buyers from realizing they are pro action heads.

news flash # 2 they need different plugs

but I did all the work there already so you are ok. Don't get confused by people giving you advice on your heads that know all about the irons, almost nothing here is the same. The irons use a .460" long 14mm taper like regular GM's

The info at pro lists a C57C as a start for alky engines and the C59C as a start for gas. Those are both a 14mm thread, long reach (.750" + -), washer seat, 5/8 hex (wrench) plug. There are very few plugs with all three attributes:

.750" reach

14mm thread

gasket seat


I crossed the C59C (the hotter of the two) to a NGK 5238 (R5671A-9). They are 1.79 each from NAPA which has the best price on them. While researching plugs I came accross some info which lists the plug for a ZR-1 corvette, it uses a plug which is dimensionally the same, but I am wondering if its heat range would be better. One can only guess that ZR-1 plugs are expensive.

news flash # 3 those are TALL and NARROW ports

meaning they are designed to fit a 1206 gasket but they are larger than a 1205 and smaller than a 1206.

you will need to port match them much wider to fit your intake. and port match the intake "taller"

news flash # 4 let me help some more

I already went through all of this as well so learn from my work



I used a edelbrock TPI base luckily there was BARELY enough material to port match to. I am taking this intake off of the car btw to put in a different motor all together. so it will be available I don't know if a stock TPI intake has enough beef for this, most carbed intakes also don't unless you go with a victor.

partially ported


almost done


finished


the heads


when done the ports on both the intake and the heads will be slighty smaller than the gasket meaning it wont need to be trimmed.

here are some important things to look for:

check your heads in the spark plug region they may have been newly machined for tapered seat plugs ( a new mod of the head ).

check all of the head bolt holes in the heads. not all but some have two of the holes smaller per head to allow more port volume. these smaller holes means your heads need ARP part # 234-4333 summit wants $154 but flatlander sells them for $139. These studs (no bolts sorry) have two necked down bolts per side.

your valves are likely .100" longer than normal if you have nice springs that came with the heads. between the thicker decks and the longer valves custom pushrods are a must. buy a comp cams pushrod lenght checker. the twisty kind that reads in .050 incriments per turn.

you need to double check and move your guide plates around for the best pushrod clearance. the pushrod to head clearance on these heads leaves something to be desired but as I said it can be worked around.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

You mean Pro-topline?

I went to pro-toplines website (www.protopline.com).

Pro-action is their Ford head.

Lightening is their chevy head.

In any event, they dont make a 190cc head. wtf?


I looked at their 200cc head. These arent those either. Those heads dont use the tall port.

The 222cc race head uses a tall port, but 222 is not 190.



-- Joe

B4Ctom1

oh come now joe, you should know better than to rile me

no I don't think those are unreasonable questions.

as far as the name goes, yes and no they use the name proaction as interchangably as I do.

They havent been making the ford heads as long as the chevy head and the name has always been around from them .

all thge pictures undernieth are chevys

I guess if we want to get super technical here I shoud have been saying: "23o Pro Aluminum Lightning" the whole time.

most ebayers are selling this part number finished by thier own shop, if you have 64cc chambers then this is likely what you have:

http://www.protopline.com/123400000a.htm

I know you have 19xcc heads but they still call them 200cc at protopline

"protopline" has never listed them as having a "tall port", some of the sellers on ebay after getting some bad feedback have decided to start putting that in the ad to start protecting themselves.

In the 123400000 page link above they used to list "gasket" and "1206" I dont know why they left that out, probably because the ports have almost nothing in common with a 1206 but they did leave the field that says:

"Manifold - Std Chev Victor Jnr #2975 - Dart Wilson"

which lists a " Fel-Pro #1206"

besides how do I know that Im talking about the right head?



like I said before your heads may or may not have these factory markings

B4Ctom1

NOTE: I forgot another important note, make sure you check the sensor thread holes on the side of the heads, and test fit your sensor, mine had some odd ball threading it was a bitch to fix in the car.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Get those cursed heads to work yet?

-- Joe

B4Ctom1

yes I too am curious what you have done, have you looked at your ports? have you checked the head bolt holes?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I asked one of the guys selling these on ebay about the heads..
Asked if they were the "bad" casting with the oddball ports. Here is his response:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you want an easy bolt-on deal with small horsepower gains, buy Edelbrock or similar. If you want max-performance, deal and with the Pro Topline "bad" catings and odd-ball tall intake ports ports. The exterme tall ports is one of the reasons Pro Topline is the best performing 23 degree head available. This tall port requires a tall aftermarket manifold like a Victor Jr or Performer RPM. And then, you still may want to remove material from the top of the intake manifold runner. Complete gasket matching at the intake runner is over rated. Raising the intake runner provides a straighter shot at the intake valve and therby improves performance. The benefit of the straight shot pays off with a generous short-side turn, close to the valve. As for the "bad" castings, every manufacturer has some degree of "bad" castings. The measure of a quality company is how well they handle the occasional "bad" situation. Shaver stands behind the products they sell. Check out our 100% feedback.

deepstage69

iTrader: (2)

OK I finally got one of them gasket matched and cleaned up a little, what would i use to smooth out the surface from the carbide cutter left behind.







I think mine have more pushrod clearance than yours or at least they look like there cut bigger.

B4Ctom1

yeah your pushrod holes do look bigger.

did you check to see all the head bolt holes are the same size?

what intake are you going to use?

have you checked the gasket port matchup on the intake yet?

deepstage69

iTrader: (2)

Head bolts are all the same size, spark plugs do not have the tapered seat.

Intake i was originally gonna use a performer rpm air gap. So im gonna take the 1206's to the local speed shop to see if there enough porting room, if not ill run a victor, victor junior cant remember.

B4Ctom1

I forgot to mention something important.

I purposely purchased with straight plugs to fit my SLP 1 3/4" headers are not fully compatable. As I already discussed the heads use a special plug, and those plugs are not available in a Accel header shorty, because they are 14mm thread, washer seat, 5/8" hex, and .750" reach and this is just not available from Accel.

The biggest interference seems to be #4 and #8. Good news is clearance is actually improved on some of the other plugs on the drivers side as the plugs on these heads are of the straight design, are angled downward some on these heads.

The # 4 is close enough to a primary to require the use of a cut down 5/8" plug socket and a 3/4" shorty wrench.

The # 8 plug is enough of a problem that I had to pull the pass side header back off and give it a treatment similar to the kind I gave it for the steering shaft.

This added "massaging" will prevent plug wire burning and flashing over of the spark to the header and the rough running that comes from this.

you cannot use a wrench to tighten these plugs because the hex on the plug is too far into the recess machined in the head.

What I can't say for sure is that this problem could be just as bad with any header but I can't say for sure either way.

Here are some pics of the progress:


1 before

2 after

3 after


In conjuction with this tool I use a stubby 3/4" wrench to turn the spark plug tool by its hex.

4 tool

5 tool

cam-

I'm thinking about going for these heads too what do you guys think now that you have tried them?

B4Ctom1

you would be better off with trickflows for the money or AFR's for a bit more.

cam-

Is it the performance that was lacking or just the fitment issues that brings you to say this? From what I had previously understood about pro action was that they were excellent performing heads correct? As far as the fitting goes a little modification here or there is not something that bothers me. I am more concerned with getting a bigger "bang for my buck" However if you feel that the performance was not up to snuff or the castings were not durable or just plain turd then thats a different story. Thanks very much for the input I welcome anything else you or others might have to add. Thanks in advance

B4Ctom1

unless you plan on finishing them off with full porting, you can't really expect much in the way of flow out of them.

Basically these castings were cast to go to a CNC machine and never went there. An in depth hand porting job, CNC porting job would offset the cost savings.

They simply, in the state offered, are't capable in my opinion, even of decent street performance.

cam-

Thanks man. Thats one more off my list!

FastFactory88

Well, as far as B4Ctom1's comments I'm fairly certain we are not talking about the same heads as from Pro Topline. I bought a set from a guy of of eBay. I asked quite a few questions before the actual purchase. These heads come from a mfgr in Australia, not New Zealand. They are very similar in design but these heads are the best out of the box castings and rough machine heads I have ever seen. They have not been retouch or molested to remove numbers and the numbers that are on them are nothing like what I've seen from Pro Topline. I only lightly touched up a few areas, polished and finished the valve a seat work.

My flow numbers are better than the Sportsman II and Air Flow Research; not by much but I'll take what I can get. Now, with all the physical measuring I've done neither my Edelbrock TPI base or the Victor Jr #2975 would accomodate the higher port ceiling. The intake port runner ceiling is nearly 0.400" taller than the BowTie heads I removed. When I measured how much material needed to be remove it left me with less than 0.100" on the top edge. I measure a lot so I don't have to be suprized after I hog it all out. I've also done a nice CAD graphic showing the various port and gasket configurations, if anyones intereted.

Also, the port width is identical to the BowTie head and wider than the Victor Jr. #2975, NOT NARROWER. These ports are about the same size as the #1206 gasket opening. I haven't measured the intake runner cc's yet but I'll bet their more than 190; since my Bowties were 184 and these are o'sooo much larger. I'll let you know when the jury comes in.

What I think I'm going to resort to is: build up (by welding) the area on the top of the (manifold-side) intake runner. This will make certain there is enough "meat" at that top lip (evn after I hog it out to match it) to get a good gasket seal (intake leaks are a bummer). I've had to do this in the past but more for port flow dynamics reasons; this time it's because they just don't fit.

Sorry I'm not much actual help but I have only just gotten started on this one. I'll do my best to give an update once it has been resolved.

-Jeff

B4Ctom1

are yours part # 123400000?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Got a link to the auction ?

-- Joe

cam-

We need someone to throw a set of these unported on the flow bench... please

deepstage69

iTrader: (2)

Sorry already ported on mine, not done though.

shaggy56

Did anyone ever throw these on a bench?

Steven89Iroc

Just observing here, but you can also find these heads and more info here... http://hotrodheaven.com/

They seem to be offering a 195cc version with tall ports, and a 190cc version with standard ports.

Are those referred to in this thread the tall port versions specifically or did they come out with new ones as well?

If they work better with some slight cleanup than iron L98 heads and don't cause too many fitment problems, it sounds like they're a decent option for some of us being that they're half the price of AFR's.

shaggy56

Well I posted this before. These are the bought out Pro action heads but redesigned by RHS according to a distributor I e-mailed a while back. I dont know if they fixed the raised port problem but they seem to be going for around the same prices.
Their are a few distributors still selling the original pro-action design as well as the knockoffs like superflow.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RHS-A...spagenameZWDVW

cam-

I went the LS1 route but i am still curious if anyone got a set of these independantly flow tested?