The ODB

The long awaited (in the st louis area) race between my friend Shawn Beach (ta2slow) and Chris aka (vorturd) finally happened at Gateway international raceway a little over a week ago. First here is a link to the street racers board & where you can view the video of the race.

http://pub48.ezboard.com/fmwsrfrm11....icID=205.topic

For some background...
Shawn has a 98 Transam with stock engine, 700R4 tranny, and 2.73 gears. Shawns car pulled 292 RWHP on a local chassis dyno.

Chris has a 2000 ramair Transam with a 9psi Vortech + aftercooler installed & tuned by Turbo Connection. His car also has the best of everything for parts (viperized 6-speed, 12-bolt with 3.73's, etc..). Chris has a lot of money, but no real knowledge of how to make a car fast or how to power-tune. Still Chris had been talking mad-smack about his car claiming to beat anything around and also to go 200mph on the street.
By the way, Chris' car chassis dyno'd at a little over 470 RWHP.

let's see:
292 RWHP vs 470 RWHP
2.73 gears + auto vs 3.73 gears +6-speed
they both ran identical E.T. street tires

They got a pro-tree to eliminate anticipating the light..
Shawn ran 11.4 @ 119 mph
Chris ran 12.4 @ 116 mph

if you look at the movie you see it's a total slaughtering & not even close.
The blower car pulled ok on the big end but no where near enough to matter in a drag race. Chris was only pulling around 88 mph at the 1/8th mile mark.

the math doesn't add up does it?

Lessons to be learned by this painful smackdown treatment:

*centrifugal blowers are a great selling item if you have a business & a chassis dyno, but not so hot for drag racing.

*dyno numbers are totally worthless unless you race by comparing dyno sheets.
--desktop dyno2000 award winner (tm*)--

*the best parts in the world will not help if you're an idiot.

*lower rearend gears do NOT make you fast.

*stick cars can never react as fast as an automatic car.

Racing tech brought to you by the ODB with special thanks to Shawn and especially to Vorturd for spending all that money for parts & dyno testing, then going on to prove exactly what we've been trying to tell him the entire time.

any questions or comments can be made over on the midwest street racers board here:

http://pub48.ezboard.com/bmwsr

branz28

Thanks for the...information ODB. I myself plan on going to gateway in june but as you can imagine. I'm a little nervous since it's my 1st race. I've been trying to tackle howto launch but i guess that doesn't help if the track is different from the street...any advice? btw, how do you power tune?

------------------
89 IROC-Z 350 TPI

-Flowmaster Catback
-Performance Resource Chip
-700R4 (Rebuilt) Too much done to actually list
-K&N Airfilters
-Ported Plenum
-2.77 Gears (not much to brag about but eh, its there)
-MSD 8.5 mm plug wires
-Gutted cat
-!AIR
-Gutted Air Boxes

406 S10 Man

iTrader: (1)

how do you run an 11.40 with a stock motor making 292 rwhp? that is frickin ludicrous. you could put warren johnson in that car and it would still only do low 13's.

------------------
88 S10
Dropped 3/4
18" Boyd Coddington Timeless 5s
406 balanced with 6" Eagle H-beam rods, 10.25:1 JE SRP pistons, Comp 284XE cam; 240/246 @.050, .507/.510, Dart 200cc Ironeagle heads, Victor Jr. intake, Holley 750 vac sec.
12.20 @ 115.25 mph

87Z-ya

iTrader: (1)

Its another classic ODB post. To vague to prove anything. What were the short times? Why isnt there a video of your 305 pulling 10's? Id bet my stick has alot better reaction than yours!!

------------------
87z 383,afr 190's, comp hyd roller(242/248-.540/.562,114 sep),Ported and polished mini ram, 30lb inj, 3.42 gears, tremec 5spd, , 1,3/4" slp headers, speed pro bank to bank-wb02.
"Just remember children, no man can beat you once youv'e found the cliterous." 'chef'

Ray87Z

A stock LS1 does not come anywhere near a 119 mph run, I don't care what the ET is... He was spraying or something. A 12.4 is pretty crappy for the blower guy, my guess is a poor launch or maybe the engine isn't running just right anymore.

This is not a dyno vs track comparo, there is no way a stock LS1 w/ ET streets runs a 11.4 at 119 mph, period.

------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray

The ODB

as long as you guys keep on denying the facts it's just your loss and the longer your ways of thinking will keep you slow.

I think the short times were a
1.62 to a 1.64 very close to that. The reaction from the stick car was almost 1/2 second behind the auto just like it happens on the street... thanks to the pro tree.

Shawns car is easily 10 second capable with nitrous.... a $100 homemade dry system. I have personally ridden with him during a 10 second pass in the T/A. His engine is completely stock.

one more time.. any questions, ask on the streetracer board where you can find both racers.

wondering about my 305? ask Shawn about that & see what he tells you.

I'll try to get a video of my 305 running sometime this summer.

ODB

Aaron91RS

iTrader: (2)

Yep pretty much.

Guest

I only have one problem with this statement. At face value, there isnt a 292rwhp car on the face of the planet that will run 11.4@119, unless its like super light. Same deal with your car. What you havent done, is said anything about how these magical times happen. Until then, I will just assume 'stock' means heavily modified, and '305' means a sleeved block with 4.125" bores. Not unless you would like to enlighten us as to how these sort of times happen, rather than being rediculously vague and saying our ways of thinking are wrong. Our way of thinking isnt wrong when no other way is presented.

Aaron91RS

iTrader: (2)

Well it has had a weight reduction too. You will never get him to spill the beans and tell the whole story about whats been done though, so don't waste your time. They just like to bitch at eachother for fun

---------TA2SLOW-----------------VORTEC

R/T------.678---PRO TREE--------.960
60'------1.66-------------------.1.68
330'-----4.78-------------------5.299
1/8------7.36-------------------8.13
MPH------96.12------------------88.92
1000-----9.57-------------------10.46
1/4------11.45------------------12.40
MPH------119.6------------------116.96

It's amazing a blown car with the ~same 60' lost too a 'stock' car.

Matt87GTA

That 11 second car is no way 'stock'. So the fact that you say that the engine is stock in your original post means you are merely trying to get people riled up - which I think is pretty gay. I can not stand people that smuggly attempt to brag about their, or their friends, cars in such an extremely vague way that no one knows exactly what is fact or fiction. WTF is the point of your post since it is entirely too indistinct and pretentious to make any sense??????????

------------------
Matt

1987 GTA L98 MD8 GW6

"Stop Lights timed for 35Mph are also timed for 70Mph"

Brent

iTrader: (1)

BWAHAHAHAHA, ODB your post is as bad as some of the magazines comparisons. You list only a portion of the variables that are required to result in quick ETs and then leave us to guess the rest.

First thing that sticks out in my mind is that you have two different drivers. Each with unknown (to us) skill levels. Next time, have the same guy test the two cars. Preferably someone with experience. Your personal assesment of two drivers ability's is NOT acceptable.

Next, you mention nothing about the race weight of the two cars. I believe that is fairly important.

Dyno numbers are just that, numbers. Correction factors can skew the ouput. As all engines are different, so are dynos. Some shops boost their numbers in the way they setup their dynos. So unless you are doing discplined testing of the two cars on the same dyno at the same facility with an honest operator, you are really not showing us any kind of decent comparison.

In conclusion, your post was a waste of time because it didn't include all the facts.

[This message has been edited by Brent (edited May 10, 2001).]

PhantomTPI

HOGWASH...Hey everyone....MAYBE that TA WAS stock....just that it was missing all its body panels, the dash, seats, speakers, carpeting, spare tire, headlights, taillights, windows, exhaust system, accessory drives, floorboard...i could go on and on...you get the idea

BTW: Couldnt watch video...connection too slow

------------------
1986 WS6-Equipped 5.0 TPI Trans Am
Random Tech High-Flow Cat
Two Chamber Flowmaster Muffler
Megs Custom 4.5" Stainless Steel Rolled Tips
1999 Grand Am GT In-Dash CD Player w/Equalizer(fits like '86 original)
5% Tint On Rear, 35% On Sides
http://www.pitt.edu/~zyhst/trans86/

OTHER RIDE:
1998 C5 6Spd. Corvette Coupe
Silver w/Gray Leather Int.
12/14 Options
Stock(for now)
Best 1/4th: 13.5 @ 104.4MPH



[This message has been edited by PhantomTPI (edited May 10, 2001).]

Bort62

Altho 11.4 Seems a little Fantastic, The Jist of it is still the Same.

ODB, I would be interested to Learn what Non engine related mods that TA had, extensive PRom editing, exhuast, ect may have alot to Do with the result.


I hardly think all the insulting is in Order, ODB was just trying to Share some Information. And to Prove a Point, Money dosent outweigh Knowledge.

And Deeper gears do not make You go fast! true true true.

If your Taching out before the trap, whats the point!?!




------------------
60 Ranchero - Project ( Money Hole )
85 Sport Coupe LG4 - Daily Driver
Reader's ride -> My Ride

Just another Hot Rod kid, or thats what they all tell me.
Livin' the Stereotype

jaretz28

Hey Duuuuuuudes,

Apperently ODB's friend Shawn has a T/A that GM just built for him. You know, the one with a 305 up front and one in the back tweaked for nitromethane. Tell me when your ready to sell, cause for a "stock" T/A running 11.4 seconds in the 1/4 mile ...I'm ready to buy! 2.73 gears you say? Full of bull $hit I say!

Like a ROC 89

Sure it was a stock motor.... with NOS......... Guys go read some of the posts on their gay site and the guy who won says that he didn't even have to SPRAY the whole way to beat him. The OBD conviently left that out...

Yarnboy

Yea my 305 runs 11.4's too man..It's completely stock..All I have is a 375 bump..This post is silly..Everyone know's putting a blower on a new modded LSI makes it go a second slower than a '98 stock one!

------------------

• Red '88 IROC 305 TPI T-5 w/3.08
• Accel 300+ Ignition
• Accel 300+ Pro Sleeve Plug Wires
• AC Delco Rapid Fire Plugs
• Dual Friction Stage III Centerforce Clutch
• Energy Suspension Transmission Mount
• Flowmaster Force II 3 Chamber Cat Back Exhaust
• Gutted Airboxes
• Hypertech Stage II PROM
• Hypertech Airfoil
• Throttle Body Coolant Bypass
• Best Maryland (40 degrees) E/T 14.686, 60' 2.205, 1/8th mile 9.461, 1/4 mile MPH 93.91
• Best Florida (80 degrees) E/T 14.88, 60' 2.163, 1/8th mile 9.540, 1/4 mile MPH 92.74
• Best 60' 2.163(Florida)
• TPiS AFPR set to 42psi using Accel Fuel Pressure Gauge (Installed after Maryland run)
• Aluminum Driveshaft (Installed after Maryland run)

bottledpower

ok im not doubting the stock engine rotating assembly, but seriously, what is he feeding his engine? it didnt roll off the assembly line running a 11.4 @119. not trying to flame ya ODB but im running 11.203 best with some serious mods. BTW i find it funny as hell that he beat the 470RWHP T/A with 292 RWHP. that just goes to show ya that experience and knowledge rule the race.

------------------
85 IROC 350 11:1keith blacks,.555lift erson roller cam,1.5 crane roller rockers,edelbrock intake,holley 4150 750dbl pumper, nitrous oxide,full length heddman headers,true dual exhaust, 11"stall converter, 700R4, 3.73 locker

Damon

Damon comes in, looks around, takes a puff on his smoke, shakes his head, turns around and walks silently back out of the thread again......

The ODB

sour grapes...

I have mentioned in several threads that Shawn has a $100 homemade nitrous system on his T/A (including this thread).. dhuh
why must I be asked to list every last detail about any car that I talk about? I don't have time to play baby-sitter and give you all exact recipies of how someone went fast with their car. Don't you know it's time to pull away from the nipple and do some thinking and testing for yourselves.

I was not lying about anything, nor do I enjoy being called a lier. I just chalk it up to envy is all. Everyone out there does not have the experience or knowhow to run quick with a stock engine & I know that makes a lot of people mad and they instantly call B.S.
Well Shawn's engine is completely stock, Chris' engine is not. I listed comparible mods for each vehicle (gears, tires, tranny, etc.).
No that was NOT a full bottle pass for Shawn. When you're ahead in a race that much, who needs the bottle?
Yes Shawn's car is 11 second capable with the stock engine and NO nitrous.. get over it please
there are even faster cars out there with stock engines.

Shawn does have headers & Y-pipe, so does Chris.

Shawn does have a vigilante converter and the stock 2.73 rear gears.
Chris has a $1000 clutch setup, viperized 6-speed, and a 12-bolt with 3.73's.

I do not have to prove anything to anyone about someone elses car. Come race shawn and he will show you his stock engine and pull the rearend cover & let you count gears after he takes your money. He gets a pretty good kick out of taking money from all the nonbelievers out there.

This was not an exact test, yet was a very valid comparison illustrating the FACT that dyno data is completely useless when it comes to actual street or track performance.

Daz

iTrader: (1)

for what its worth Im giving ODB the benefit of the doubt..IT dynoed at 292 at one point it doesnt mean that its 292hp ALL The time.What if the owner of the 292hp car showed everyone a dyno sheet before tuning,porting,PROM burn whatever..I would never show or tell anyone every detail of my car if I know Im gonna race them..my 2/10 of a cent.BTW no suspension mods were mentioned on the car that won..Its not all about engine output

Daz

Ray87Z

If he sprayed anywhere during the race then your "Dyno vs Track Comparo" is completely bogus as the car wasn't putting down 292 rwhp while spraying. How about a spraying dyno run then w/ the same shot as he's using in the race so we really can have a Dyno vs Track comparo? How big is the shot? Give me a break. Did it dyno the 292 w/ the headers and **** on it at the time? If so that seems a little low for a LS1 w/ headers...

And this whole time you're playing the "stock" car game. Obviously most people are going to miss the stock engine part and think your implying a stock car. I don't know about anyone else but I don't call a car w/ headers, a nice TC, slicks, and NOS stock by any definition OR try to be vague enough to hint that it's stock while trying to prove some point to people that don't know the specifics on this car... What a crock of **** your post is OBD. You usually are one the level headed guys w/ a lot of good info, why the blatant flame bait thread? I see in the other post you didn't actually write this so it is a little different, but you're trying to make some point and then changing the variables by leaving out the NOS...

------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray


[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited May 11, 2001).]

Vader

ODB,

Very sly, indeed. Remind me to never play poker with you....

------------------
Later,
Vader
------------------
"What a Day..."
Adobe Acrobat Reader

Brent

iTrader: (1)

Ray87Z is right on the money.

ODB, you conspired to decieve us in your original post by leaving out a vital part of the equation. You lead us to believe that he ran 11.4@119 with 292rwhp. He didn't, he sprayed nitrous, which you chose not to mention.

This is tantamount to lying. I guess that makes you a liar.

89ragtop

Maybe The ODB's just a little forgetful...maybe, maybe not.
You say you mentioned the nitrous.. you did, just not in your initial post.

JPrevost

So in reality they were only about 100hp difference with rwhp. Obviously this happens a lot on the street and the underdog wins because the other guy doesn't know how to drive. Good poing but that was kind of shady ODB how you posted stock then talked about No2, headers, blah blah. I'd really like to see a dyno run with the No2 working. I do agree with you that the low profile SCs aren't as great as they are made out to be. For $3000 I just installed an engine with 90% more hp....not 50% MAX (claims from sc companies). Now if only I had the money for the cheater No2 kit .

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

Guest

And the other shoe drops....

RB83L69

I've been reading ODB's posts for the last couple of months and taking most of them with a grain of salt too, and this is a good example of why. This "stock" car that "Shawn" has reminds me of how the Mustang lusers all talk. To them, it seems like anything that doesn't stick too far through the hood, is still stock.

The whole premise of this post, namely that a "stock" LS1 car with grocery-cart gears runs mid-low 11s while a car with 60% more power and an approporiate gear runs mid-low 12s, with both cars pulling identical short times, is pure and utter BS. This is what I've come to expect from this guy. ODB obviously knows his way around cars and racing, and equally obviously knows what he's doing as far as modding them, and he knows exactly what to leave out of his descriptions of things to make it seem like his cars and his friends' cars perform so outrageously better than everybody else's. Sure he doesn't say that the car probably doesn't have seats, carpet, stereo, wipers, window cranks, and/or who know what all else; but a car that runs 2 seconds quicker than every other one just like it does must surely have been lightened a little somewhere.

We all also know that at any sanctioned track, certain chassis mods must be made the first time you run 11.99 or faster. So that car doesn't have the stock chassis, or at least won't for long, since this run was at a track that NHRA runs a national event at and will honor the times from.

This is why I don't race for money. You run into people who do this all the time. We've all met them at one time or another: the guys who will tell you their car is "bone stock", want to race you for titles, then won't let you see under their hood.

The only useful information in the whole thing is that a car with nitrous, tuned up properly and driven hard, will beat a car with a blower slapped on it and driven poorly or out of tune. The 292/470 RWHP thing is a total lie because the 292 # (on the edge of fantasy, but barely believable for that car from the factory) came from some other setup besides what was actually running down that track.

Whatever credibility ODB had rebuilt back up in my mind by not coming up with BS like this for a while, is now lost. We're back to a car with a cam one step bigger than a peanut cam running 11s. Next we'll find out that his own car has an under-the-intake "stealth" fogger kit installed in it.

------------------
"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

TA2slow1

Wow, you done it again ODB

Here's a little break down for all the retards on this GAY board. First of all the car did dyno at 292rwhp with all the mods i have not with the bottle.

Its pretty simple... the car was stock and dynoed 289.7rwhp. That day it dynoed 287,289,289.7.

One year later on the same dyno with the same correction factor it dynoed 292.7, 294, 299.5 with no changes to the car on that day. When the car was stock it ran a best of 105mph. Now it runs 111mph and only dynoed 10rwhp more. The low dyno numbers are because of the stall and anyone who has one will tell you it'll reduce your dyno numbers. Now i did lock the converter up and it dynoed 315 and 322...so there you go boys and girls.

Know on to how much crack I'm useing...around 100 shot. I have a single nozzle with a .051 jet in it. When i raced Vorturd the bottle pressure was around 800psi...so thats pretty close to 100 horsepower. Now if i where to get a full 100 to the wheels lets then i still would have only made 422rwhp. Nothing campared to 488rwhp that the other car made.

As for the dumbass that posted this

Aaron91RS
Member
Posts: 479
From: St. Louis
Registered: Jul 1999
posted May 10, 2001 09:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well it has had a weight reduction too. You will never get him to spill the beans and tell the whole story about whats been done though, so don't waste your time. They just like to bitch at eachother for fun
---------TA2SLOW-----------------VORTEC

R/T------.678---PRO TREE--------.960
60'------1.66-------------------.1.68
330'-----4.78-------------------5.299
1/8------7.36-------------------8.13
MPH------96.12------------------88.92
1000-----9.57-------------------10.46
1/4------11.45------------------12.40
MPH------119.6------------------116.96

It's amazing a blown car with the ~same 60' lost too a 'stock' car.

What do you think I'm doing right know retard? Yes the car has some weight taken out of it. If you want a break down here you go ***got.

rear seat=25lbs
spare/jack=30lbs
vig=20lbs
headers=20lbs
AC=25lbs
egr,air pump=15lbs
sway bar=10lbs
weld wheels=90lbs

The car weighs 3200lbs and it use to weigh 3430ish. The 3200lbs is with the gas on empty.

Anything else?



------------------
98TA vig3600, pulley, macs headers, 2.73,lid,
12.21@111mph N/A
11.29@118mph on the crack

RB83L69

Looks like the car owner confirms everything I just said. I stand by my judgement.

And where I come from, a car with a 3600 stall converter and headers is not stock. Not even "stock" in quotes. It's modified.

You're exactly right, ODB has done it again: another post with these impossibly fast times for what he initially claims the car is built out of. Mind you, I'm not saying the times or other numbers themselves are bogus; only that there's always a whole list of little white lies of omission in all his brag posts about what produced those numbers. The truth usually comes out in little driblets, just like this one.

Anything else?

------------------
"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

89ragtop

This board is not gay. Why are you calling someone a ***got for guessing what was true? Pissed because he called you on it? They wanted the whole story, not just half. If you don't like it, don't waste your time posting here.

PhantomTPI

Well, first, since you are on this board now, you qualify as a "retard this gay board" too, dips**t. This is a THIRDGEN board...NOT 4th...T H I R D..can't read either, it seems. But it doesnt matter...there is NOTHING stock about that car. It has headers, NOS, etc etc etc...that ain't stock, son. Missing parts ain't stock either. ODB may know his s**t when it comes to cars, but is purposely trying to mislead and misinform everyone. So to me, its total BS and a crock of sh**. By comming on this board and outright lying from the first post is ridiculous...how the f*** you want people to believe its a stock engine when its really not? If you dont want people to know your car isn't stock, and you claim it is, dont post it on a damn car enthusiast board, becuase you will loose your credibility completely. Go post on the "Bathroom and Drapery Board" or some s*** like that. Dont bring BS statements on here unless you want to back your s**t up with some useful information....this isn't the place to be misleading and deceptive. "I have a STOCK 11.4sec car, but I'm not telling you what exactly i have done to it." Take that childish BS somewhere else man.

------------------
1986 WS6-Equipped 5.0 TPI Trans Am
Random Tech High-Flow Cat
Two Chamber Flowmaster Muffler
Megs Custom 4.5" Stainless Steel Rolled Tips
1999 Grand Am GT In-Dash CD Player w/Equalizer(fits like '86 original)
5% Tint On Rear, 35% On Sides
http://www.pitt.edu/~zyhst/trans86/

OTHER RIDE:
1998 C5 6Spd. Corvette Coupe
Silver w/Gray Leather Int.
12/14 Options
Stock(for now)
Best 1/4th: 13.5 @ 104.4MPH



[This message has been edited by PhantomTPI (edited May 11, 2001).]

Daz

iTrader: (1)

NOt to defend anyone he didnt say the car is stock just the engine.Although I dont agree that a NOS plumbed engine is stock thats still up for debate..I would say that ODB is "testing " the fast readers..bottom line Im not taking any sides just stating useless info

Daz

TA2slow1

It looks like to me your all mad because you can not read. ODB NEVER said my car was stock. He did say the motor was stock, and it is.

[This message has been edited by TA2slow1 (edited May 11, 2001).]

PhantomTPI

Hmmmmm.....last time i checked..........stock motor = the way it came from the F A C T O R Y...all factory settings retained...stock motor DOES NOT = nitrous, pulleys, and headers. Weight reduction or not, the car is not stock, neither is the motor, and the last time I checked, there is no LS1 out there with factory settings that will do an 11.4 without mods. You cannot classify pulleys, headers and NOS as stock. Thats like saying you're a horse, when in reality, you're an a$$.

------------------
1986 WS6-Equipped 5.0 TPI Trans Am
Random Tech High-Flow Cat
Two Chamber Flowmaster Muffler
Megs Custom 4.5" Stainless Steel Rolled Tips
1999 Grand Am GT In-Dash CD Player w/Equalizer(fits like '86 original)
5% Tint On Rear, 35% On Sides
http://www.pitt.edu/~zyhst/trans86/

OTHER RIDE:
1998 C5 6Spd. Corvette Coupe
Silver w/Gray Leather Int.
12/14 Options
Stock(for now)
Best 1/4th: 13.5 @ 104.4MPH



[This message has been edited by PhantomTPI (edited May 11, 2001).]

TA2slow1

The only people saying my car is stock are you *******. Neither ODB or myself said that. I am saying the motor is stock. Just because I have headers and Nos and a crank pulley doesnt make the motor built.

So if I put 4.5 inch getto cannons on the stock tail pipes like ******* do does that mean my exhuast isnt stock?



------------------
98TA vig3600, pulley, macs headers, 2.73,lid,
12.21@111mph N/A
11.29@118mph on the crack

Guest

Mad? Cant read? LOL

Actually his post says you ran 292hp down the track and ran an 11.4. I said no. Then I am supposed to know you have nitrous on your car and were using it (I didnt because nothing in the post says that). I knew something was up, and that explains it. That also means there was no reason to say your car was making 292hp, and you took it to the track, and beat a 450 or whatever hp car, because you werent running down the track with 292hp.

I dont doubt the time, and thats pretty quick especially for a stock engine. Obviously you arent a moron like the guy you raced. But half the story (If you are going to bother posting it) and half truths (making a big deal about it only putting down 292hp on the dyno) only does one thing for me, makes me take everything he says and consider it a bunch of BS before I even read it, because the whole story isnt there.

BTW I never said your car was stock either. Its quite obvious it isnt. I heard the launch, theres the converter. Not a stock exhaust either. Nobody bothers to try to run a stock engine and not lose some weight. Those are all givens. Yea, I can read fine thank you... its what wasnt typed in that makes the 'math add up'. Thats why there are so many replies by people you seem to think cant read.. they can read fine, I guess they just forgot their secret decoder ring.

TA2slow1

[This message has been edited by TA2slow1 (edited May 11, 2001).]

TA2slow1

Man i dont know where to begin on this one. He never said my car ran 11.4s with 292rwhp. Read it again please. Yes your suppose to know about the bottle....because ODB said so in his post that i have $100 dry kit on the car.

The car does have a stock 2 3/4in stock cat back exhuast on it, along with headers and a off road pipe and cutout.


------------------
98TA vig3600, pulley, macs headers, 2.73,lid,
12.21@111mph N/A
11.29@118mph on the crack

Guest

Funny, I dont see anything that says running NOS or why he even bothered stating 292 vs 470, when it wasnt. Sounds like it was more like 392ish vs 470+moron owner.

His later post says:

"Shawns car is easily 10 second capable with nitrous"

I just assumed you werent off that day and the NOS was to get you from 11.4 to 10's. He never said that you used it before I first replied. If you think he did, show me exactly where.

PhantomTPI

"*******"....haaaaaahaaaaaaa LOLOLOL How many of the three brain cells you have did you use to think up that one? No s*** Sherlock, tips dont constitute a "built up" exhaust. But let me ask this..even if i had ONLY these here "ghetto cannons" on there, would that be stock? Meaning, would it have come from the factory that way? That isnt in the original intended factory/make/model design, therefore its NOT stock. So your "stock engine" claim is total horses**t, and has no credibility. IF those are the only mods to the motor(which i doubt), then no, the engine would not be "built up." But its not stock either. BTW...read your post again...i am not talking about the car, i am talking about the motor. I already proved my point with the car.

If every TA made in 98 came with aftermarket headers, pulleys, nitrous, exhaust cut-out, and whatever other mods you dont wish to talk about, then you can claim your "stock-ness." People would actually believe you then, and in effect of people believing what you say, and you having credibility instead of being viewed as a deceptive con arguing a point that he knows has no backbone to support the claims he makes, while trying to fool people to believe something that isn't true, this thread wouldn't have to end up in such a manner.

------------------
1986 WS6-Equipped 5.0 TPI Trans Am
Random Tech High-Flow Cat
Two Chamber Flowmaster Muffler
Megs Custom 4.5" Stainless Steel Rolled Tips
1999 Grand Am GT In-Dash CD Player w/Equalizer(fits like '86 original)
5% Tint On Rear, 35% On Sides
http://www.pitt.edu/~zyhst/trans86/

OTHER RIDE:
1998 C5 6Spd. Corvette Coupe
Silver w/Gray Leather Int.
12/14 Options
Stock(for now)
Best 1/4th: 13.5 @ 104.4MPH

[This message has been edited by PhantomTPI (edited May 11, 2001).]

406TPI

iTrader: (1)

"I never had sexual relations with that woman, Monica Lewinski"

Let's get into the word game boys. This board would be so much better without OBD and his partner in crime.

Guest

I dont think so. I just think the non tech (like this) needs to take a hike, as usual.

Kevin G

let's see:
Talk about leaving the N20 out of the equation..LOL Typical.

Blowers are only good on a dyno?? And not racing?? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Thanks for the good laugh.

Daz

iTrader: (1)

I propose a lock on this thread..not like I matter...

introvertDaz

PhantomTPI

After taking some time to realize that i was wasting my time posting back to that idiot, i apologize for wasting space. I still stand by what i said though. I just have lost interest in this post, and the desire to try to prove my point, which the majority will most likely agree with anyway. I second the motion to lock this post, and third it as well. I dont care anymore. I just HATE bulls**ters and the like. Lets get back to why 99.9% of us are here for: THIRDGEN topics and information w/realistc learning, advice, and discussions.

------------------
1986 WS6-Equipped 5.0 TPI Trans Am
Random Tech High-Flow Cat
Two Chamber Flowmaster Muffler
Megs Custom 4.5" Stainless Steel Rolled Tips
1999 Grand Am GT In-Dash CD Player w/Equalizer(fits like '86 original)
5% Tint On Rear, 35% On Sides
http://www.pitt.edu/~zyhst/trans86/

OTHER RIDE:
1998 C5 6Spd. Corvette Coupe
Silver w/Gray Leather Int.
12/14 Options
Stock(for now)
Best 1/4th: 13.5 @ 104.4MPH


[This message has been edited by PhantomTPI (edited May 11, 2001).]

zippy

obviously a bulls**t post. it's an argument he's trying to make and doesn't know how to approach it. 292rwhp isn't going 11's downhill. even cutting alot of weight off the vehicle, you'd just about have to cut a 4th gen in half to run that. also, mistake is the trap speed. the supercharged car would have pulled on him at the high end with a higher mph from the hp difference. even with the perfect stahl converter and gearing, it isn't going to bring up the trap speed to 119.

Ray87Z

Good kill on the blown car ta2slow. We felt like OBD was trying to start something, nothing against you, your car, or your win.

------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray

fmsracing

These posts are not about what a particular car will run in the 1/4 mile with what modifications. This is a game of logic (which I teach at a University level). Certain information was left out (purposely) and therefore others made assumptions based on a lack of information and undefined terms. This is where the argument begins. NHRA will let you run headers, gears, pulleys, converters among other stuff and call it a stock class. So who's definition of stock are you using??? The one place that TA2slow1 looses the argument is when it comes to the statement of NOS. By NHRA rules or any other racing sanction body, NOS is a power adder, and it adds power to the what ... you guessed it, the engine. Therefore it is not considered a stock engine by any racing organization's definition or for-that-matter anyone with an IQ above 65. To use TA2slow1 logic, a supercharger added to the engine would render the engine to be considered stock since technically no internal modifications where made. TA2slow1 go back to your own board, if they will have you!!! BTY 406TPI, a ******* is defined as sex in every text except Black's Law Dictionary, that is happens when you have a lawyer for a president.

Guido

Shawn and ODB are gay.
They should go away and never come back.

ODB, you never add anything of substance to this board. Maybe you should hang out with the "*******" on some other board.



------------------
-86 IROC
Jacked up like a mother!
this years goal: 10.50 @ 130+ mph
-=ICON Motorsports=-

The ODB

Guido,
good luck getting your green card, reaching puberty, and running in the tens... you'll need it.

Whatever Whatever, I never tried to start anything like argument on this thread and specifically said 'questions or comments please make on the streetracer board'
seems like most of you are some non-reading non-mathdoing ****'s.

Shawns car without N2O = 292 rwhp
Chris' car without N2O = 488 rwhp

the N2O adds 100hp
the blower (+other stuff) adds 200hp

how hard is this to figure out guys?
there is a wealth of very usefull information in my post if you just look for it and stop dwelling on negatives, denial, and trying to catch me leaving out some little bits of info about each car.
These are not my cars, so where does the info requirements ever stop? maybe with interior color comparisons? that's pretty lame complaining about little details when there is such a huge difference in the cars in other ways ie. gearing & rwhp.
Some of you people just get a kick out of giving me a hard time when one of my informative posts doesn't jive with your own extensive pro-stocker experience.

I suggest taking what usefull info you can from a post and let the rest slide. If you don't like something about me or shawn or any of our racing friends, then just come and race us & settle it that way instead of just being little bittches & adding more smack-talk on this board.
These posts should be informative in nature and mine was just my effort to do so & pass some good info on to those that ARE interested.

As far as leaving info out before a race, shawn nor I are no worse than anybody else. In fact we always pop our hoods (many don't), and we also have the common courtesy to let people know when we intend to use nitrous (vorturd and the rest of us knew this for months).

as far as the track comparison I mentioned.. that was an obvious PERFORMANCE difference. No one will ever know the exact rearwheel horsepower each car really made during that run. All I can tell you is that there was nothing wrong with the blower cars tuning that night and he was running all out. There was also nothing wrong with the nitrous car and he did NOT have to run all out.
Stop expecting to be spoonfed a huge list of dumb details about each car. Nobody else on here is expected to do that.. not even when they're asking a tech question and it's actually needed.

There are some things to be learned from my original post and I listed those out for those of you that couldn't deduce them.

as far as the definition of 'stock' , well to each his own. I will clarify what I mean by saying this
Shawn's stock engine has NO internal modifications at all just like he said.

and dhuh neither car was 'stock'.. each had different drivers and modifications. Shawn has about $800 in modifications I think. Chris' car has closer to $12,000 in modifications.

later,
ODB