Country Boy

Heres the deal... 91 V6 Bird.

It was running and was shut off, went to start and nothing... no clicking, no nothing. The ignition cylinder, key, starter, ignition control module (above the column) were all replaced. I did a search and found the starter relay and no power to it... dead. Crank fuse is also dead. When the key is turned to "start" position, the temp gauge does its sweep and the security light goes off just as normal, but no click and no crank.... I also checked the NSS, but no problems. For some reason theres no power. Any ideas?

dankhound

What happens when you replace the crank fuse?

Country Boy

Nothing... tried that

dankhound

Does it blow again? Check the solenoid curcuit to see where you have power too.

Country Boy

It actually never blows it, just no power to it. The rest of the fuse box is all good.

dankhound

Check the fuseable links that go off the starter and lead to the fues box. One may have burnt up.

RB83L69

Yup, a fusible link...

There are 2 of them; each supplies power to about half of the car. Sounds like your car shot one of them.

Trickster

Have you checked the VATS fuse? I'm not sure about the 91 firebird, but in the 92 V6 firebird the crank fuse only supplies power to the DERM (Diagnostic Energy Reserve Module) for the AirBags.

Country Boy

Yes, all the fuses in the box were good. When the starter was replaced all the wires were whole. If one of the fusible link burnt up, wouldnt the wire burn in two? Everything else in the car is good. It seems only the IGN system is dead.

Trickster

When a fusible link blows, it doesn't always melt in two or fall apart. You can test a fusible link by lightly pulling on it, if it stretchs it is bad. Look at the wires at the starter solenoid and see if any of them look scorched or discolored . Make sure you have the wires in the right location.

Country Boy

They're in the right place because this happened when it was running perfect... problem happened and everything was replaced. Its actually not my car, but its been quite a few years since Ive worked on a 3rd gen so I went to the pros Im stuck in OBDII hell

Trickster

Okay, check to see if you are getting battery power to pin "A4" of connector C100 on the driver side firewall, if you are getting power there check for power at the ignition switch next. You have already said that there is no power at the starter enable relay and power for it comes from the ignition switch when the key is turned. Does this car have an aftermarket alarm system on it?

Country Boy

No alarm. Where is this A4 of connector C100? Is that the connector that passes through the firewall? Ignition switch... the key cylinder or the actual module on top of the column under the dash? (just so were on the same page )

Trickster

Yes, it is the firewall connector by the drivers left foot and it would be the ignition switch mounted on the steering column under the dash.

Redbird350

Amazing, I had this same problem on Saturday. However I do have power to the Starter enable relay. Both yellow have power but my green wire from the VATS module does not go to ground to allow the relay to close. I'm thinking the Vats Module is bad. I also have two different keys and neither one work. My Security light NEVER comes on. If I bypass the relay the car will crank. If I ground the green wire from the VATS module it will crank but never starts.

Trickster

Redbird350, yours sounds more like a broken wire on the lock cylinder in the steering column. Since you have an extra key, try this. Attach two wires to the contacts on one of your keys and disconnect the wire harness that comes down the steering column from the lock cylinder and connect the wires from that key to the Module side of the connector and use your other key to start the car. If the car starts, replace the lock cylinder.

Redbird350

Wow thanks..I'll call my uncle and have him try that right now. The car quit 4 hours from home and its at his shop now waiting for me to find the fix.

Redbird350

I have not had a chance to try Trickster's "TRICK" but I was wondering if anyone knows how close the resistance has to be to the expected value for the car to start? Just curious.

Trickster

Plus or minus 200 OHM of the resistance in the key.

Redbird350

Thats not very much!

Trickster

This was a rough estimate on the values. On the lower end resistance values the difference is a low as 16 OHMs on the low side and 36 OHMs on the high side. As the resistance value increases, so does the acceptable range of variance. On the Highest resistance value, the variance is 472 OHM's on the low side and 492 OHMs on the high side.

Redbird350

Good News!! My uncle tested the resistance of the key. Anyway he says when he tests the wires coming out of the column he gets no resistance reading or an "open". So thats GREAT news for me cuz now all I have to do is match the resistance of the key to get the car home. He said he tried it in OFF, RUN, and START possitions and all were open at the wire. I suppose I should buy a new lock cyl to make it right though. Thank you so much to Trickster for your help. I truly appreciate it. :hail:

Redbird350

Its Fixed! stuck a resistor in the plug that matched my key and it fired right up. Thank you Trixter and I hope everyone else having this problem gets their car fixed as well!

Country Boy

Went back at it today since I finally had time and..... I kicked its ****! lol

When my friend put the new ignition switch in, it was one click off so it wouldnt fully make contact in the "start" position. Took it off and moved it with a screwdriver and it started... scared the hell outta me too! Sitting there with the whole underdash tore apart and I pulled the switch (it was hard to pull) and it started... I think I left pee trails lol

Thanks for all the help guys!

Trickster... Youre the man!! Ive read ALOT of your posts and youd think you built these cars from the ground up! Thanks brotha!

Country Boy

I forgot the solution to the original problem. The ignition switch just complicated things.

The original problem was a broken wire on the tumbler... but the tumbler was found and changed last so when the ignition switch was replaced first (since its the easiest and fastest) it was put in wrong so it only made things worse. We thought it was licked with the broken wire, but we had to back track to find the messed up switch