just so i understand....a 383 stroker is nothing but a 350 block with a larger crank....u also have to get the block machined to add notches so the larger crank will clear. am i correct so far?? so could i get the block machined for a 383 and IF, and a big IF, i wanted to build a 350 i could do so without problems.

please bare with me as i don't know much about engines and i am trying to learn as much as i can. Thanks

 

Correct and correct (If you want to get technical, a 383 is a 350 block with a .030" overbore, but who's counting?).

Not sure why you would back step, though...

 

well then i guess another ? would be...what r the pros and cons of a 350 build and a 383 build. IE cost, street "friendly", power, pump gas, ect

 

Both can be built to however radical or tame you want them to be, there's really no "this or that" way about it. It's all in the part selection. I could build a 350 that runs on race fuel and a 383 that runs on 87 octane. I could also do the opposite.

Due to the 383's popularity, there are several SEVERAL combos posted throughout TGO. Try a search and you will see the various combos and their streetability, or, in some cases, lack thereof.

The costs are about the same, probably a bit more expensive for the 383 as extra machine work is needed. Perhaps a bit more for the crank.

 

The cost (if you are going to replace the crankshaft) is about the same. The street friendliness comes from the cam and heads. The big issue is whether you want the crank or not. Everything else will fall into place after that. Bigger engine in most instances means less gas mileage. How much change is dependedant on heads and cam also.

Jason

 

Just so there is no confusion also a 3.75" stroker crank.

 

Yea, that too.

 

It's been my understanding that to correctly clearance a block for a stroker app. you should have all the parts in place that you plan on using.
That doesn't mean that it would be impossible to clearance the block w/o the parts, but it leaves a lot of room for mistakes to happen if you don't.
So with that in mind, it wouldn't make any sense to change your mind and make your stroker back into a 350 after all that labor has been invested into it.

BTW, I've looked at some Vette sites recently where guys built Minirammed or LT1 strokers that ran in the 11s and got 20+ mpg.
Phenomenal!!

 

for the past hour 've been searching to find some good setups for a 383 and so far i've seen from 3k-5k easy. now the whole reason i was going to build my 383 was bcuz a few weeks back i asked about different creat engines and alot sed that i could build a better more powerful engine for the same if not less. well to be honest..i don't see it. This was the crate i was looking at and that is $12/hp with tax. coming from GM i can't see how that's bad....even if maybe the cam could be better, i could swap it out with a better one, right? and if it cost another $300 but got even just 25hp it would still be $12/hp

like i sed i don't know much (i'm tryin to learn) so maybe it's my ignorance on engines and engine builds that's making me miss somethin.

 

You're going to have to do a lot more searches to find the answers to all your questions.
Basically the bottom line is that a quality rotating assy for a 350 and one of equal quality for a 383 are very close in price.
Though, if you were looking to build an engine inexpensively and you already had a 350 block, the 350 would offer some savings.
There are pistons available for 350s for as low as $65/set, and when you start looking at pistons in that price range for a 383 then the build is compromised by having to use the shorter 5.56" rods.
When you start looking at the higher quality parts however, there is no difference in price.

Edit:
It seems like there's some confusion on your part about parts cost so here's a link to an online store where you can price out some stuff and see what I mean
http://www.parts123.com/PartFrame.as..._Track_Thunder
It's possible to put together a dirt cheap 350, using a set of $60 pistons, some rebuilt factory rods and a reground stock crank.
Which is something that you wouldn't be able to do with a stroker.
But when you get into parts that are anything above the OEM replacement quality, you'll see that the prices are identical for strokers or std stroke 350.

 

I built a 383 and put in my 97 T/A.

The 383 Block machining is very minimal, Most machine shops have a pattern they use (one size fits all).

A 383 will need some heads to perform, at least 200cc intake ports to make good power. Remember the velocity will not be lost with the big cubes.

A 383 shortblock ,using all simular type compnents, will cost about 400$ over a 350.

Definately interal balance it.

My set-up is as follows.

KB 18cc dish pistons, Eagle S/R rods (5.7 inch), Eagle cast steel crank (balanced with stock dampener and flexplate),
GM 1237847 cam (234/242 .050, 537/558 lift,112 lobe sep), AFR 190cc heads (mildly massaged) , K-motion K-800 springs, CC steel 1.6 magnum RR, stock ported LT1 intake,30# SVO injectors, racetronics 255lph in tank, hooker LT headers, mufflex Y, hooker cat-back (dual cut-outs),52mm T/B, 3000 vigilante converter (4L60E), 3.73 gears.

The car has run a best of 11.92 @ 115.4 mph

 

Also, I would like to add that if you piece together the 383 like I did it cuts back drastically in price. Get a pre-87 block and you can do the machine work yourself with a die grinder minus the balancing. My Scat 9000 crank came with regular 350 main journals. If you have any questions I will gladly help you in any way I can.

 

I just want to comment on the streetability question. It is my understanding that with more cubes you will get more streetability at the same horsepower level (i.e. better idle vacuum and low end torque). Flame if I'm wrong but I just thought I'd put that out. I see no reason not to go 383, however I would not put long tube TPI on top (if you were considering that as an option).

 

akbar347, i plan on using my stock 4bbl, the tech article sed it can hadle 750 cfm. and i dont want to mess with changing the computer or anything. but mainly i'm trying to find out if i can build a good strong reliable 383 for 5k, i have another thread going on just that...383 build for $5000 and it's a PITA to search for setups. noo i'm not lazy and not looking...cuz i've been looking....alot

 

I built my 383 shortblock for less than 2500 $ , the eagle kit was 1100$ and the machining and other various parts were another 1300$. If you throw my heads into the mix they were 1700$. So I built my 383 longblock for about 4100$, well below your projected 5000$.

 

THanks Perry, so far u're the only one to help me out as far as the prices go. do u have any idea what your hp is?

 

Maybe one of the reasons you're getting a lot of views and not many replies is because your post is sort of vague.
Your original question was answered, then you asked about price. But you didn't say for what.
A longblock?
A complete engine?
Any other mods/repairs to be included in that package?

For $5000 it's easy to put together a good 383 longblock that you can replace a 350 or 305 with. But you neet to make a decision on what performance level you're expecting beforehand. Because a rotating assy for street use can cost between $700 and $3000.

Look on that link in my earlier post and search out "rotating assemblies". That's where you'll find the greatest price difference in parts.
The choice is yours, whether you're going to spend $2000 or $10000 on your engine.
But keep in mind, your choice of rotating assys isn't the thing that determines the power output (or streetability) of your engine, you gan get similarly designed parts at different price ranges, and build an inexpensive 400 hp engine or an expensive one.
The rotating assy is where you invest your $ for strength and longevity. The power output is determined by the heads, the valvetrain, the induction system and exhaust..

 

well i guess i should say it like this. HERE is what i'm looking at. now could i build an engine with that kind of power. alot of people told me (from another post) that it was a waste of money bcuz i could build a better engine with better parts for less. and bcuz that's not a turn-key engine, i won't add in the cost of intake carb and dist. since that crate doesn't come with that

Thanks

 

well here ya go man, my current (almost completed setup)

$1000 (great deal btw) 383 short block - internally balanced, 6" hbeam rods, forged flattop pistons

$765 trickflow 23 degree heads new springs ($75) yyahyahyah...

$175 comp lt1 230/236 avd dur .544/.555 lift w/1.6 rr's cam

approx $700 stealthram and fuel rails with 58mm tb (soon on the tb)

approx $200 30# injectors

then you have to add your accessories and ignition
approx $160 waterpump
approx $350 msd 6al and distributor
approx $150 fuel pump
and more like a radiator, starter, etc etc.

the main components cost around $2900. add the accessories listed that comes to a little more than $3500. then you have to figure in smaller things that are always needed like headers and good filters, plugs and wires, alternator etc depending on what you have now that can change over. so for around $4000+ depending on how good you can find parts, hookups you have, and how patient you are you can have a very soild street monster. im looking at about 460 hp and 490 tq. add nitrous and im about at the 11's. but then you have to go further with the car.......tranny to hold up (t-56 $1300) and a rear end that will do the job too (12 bolt but better a ford 9" $1500) so its really how far you wanna take it but power costs money, no way around it anymore

i was knew not too long ago and if you have any questions id love to help

 

That GM 383 crate engine isn't a bad setup, but it could be improved upon.
If you want to put together your own combo though, you'll have to make a decision on what heads you'll be using first. Or at least that would be the approach I'd use. Because there are different chamber vols available and that in combination with your piston dome vol determines your compression ratio. In addition to that there are iron or aluminum heads, which each have their own CR requirements.
Do you want to have an engine that requires 93 octane? Or do you want to be able to burn less expensive lower octane?

 

first i want to say that this thread has been the BIGGEST help over any other...so thank you very much

i must ask. on that ZZ383...what would u change. and for what reason would u change it (just for more power, for better "street" use, extend the engine life?)

as far as what gas i'd like to get it on....doesn't really matter to me. right now i run 87 but in the last year i've only driven 1,300 miles. (4 months of daily driving) so i don't care if once a month (or two months) i have to fill up with the high price gas. (93 is still under $2 here in pittsburgh..i think)...

i also would like to know, is $20 per hp good, or was that some i was told. bcuz that's what i've been going on so far. that's y i didn't understand y $12/hp was a bad deal for that crate.

 

I think that $/hp is the wrong way to look at this. The reason why is cause if you're basing your parts choices on that, then you'll end up putting together a cheap engine. Which is something that can be done, if that's what you really want. But a higher quality engine is more desirable. And regardless of the hp output, a high quality engine will give you less in terms of $/ hp than a cheap one, but overall satisfaction will be greater with better quality.

What I'd change about the ZZ383?
If I were going to start on a clean slate.

A .030 4 bolt roller block machined by a competent shop.

A Competition products balanced rotating assy with a Callies dragonslayer crank, Manley sportsman rods, and a set of forged pistons probably dished to give about 10.5:1 CR

AFR 195 heads

Comp roller cam, lifters, and roller rockers

But I can't afford that. My stroker project has an Eagle cast crank, Scat capscrew rods and KB pistons... Not as high quality, but higher hp/$

 

Here's my cost:
73' 4 bolt long block $200
Scat 9000 383 crank $250
Clevite 77 H bearings $120
KB pistons $250
Sealed power rings $50
lunati cam w/ lifters $250
Edelbrock performer intake Free
Holley 4160 carb $98
Used GM distributor $65
168 tooth flywheel $30
400 har. balancer $78
Mallory AFPR w/fittings and hoses $100
balance & blueprinting $350
And I'll say maybe another $150 in misc. items I forgot to list. For under 2 grand I built myself a very nice engine. Even with the stock 73' heads and broken vacuum secondaries not opening, I still managed 198.2hp and 401lbs of tq. on the ground.

 

westman talk about budget.....wish i would have gone that route. just think what youd have if you saved up and got some aftermarket heads.....

but you can see you can build a budget 383 that would still have some very nice power or try to push yourself (mainly your wallet) and make something expensive, your choice. but for starters especially if you have never done anything like this before that zz383 isnt a bad deal

 

Its all about research and patience. Yeah it took me almost a year and a half to build it. But I can assure you it was well worth the wait. Now all I need is my AFR's and I'll be set. Ebay, swap meets, and word of mouth are a budget builders best friend. You just have to willing to put forth the effort. Now if you want your engine immediately I suggest looking into these guys: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...917752824&rd=1

 

MAN u guys kick A$$....all i can say is this will be my fisrt for many things. (biggest thing i've done has been headers) so when i start doing something new i get ALL the info on what to do b4 i ever buy anything. but i over complicate things. i'm not really going the budget build route, if what it takes is 6k then i'll save up/work more to get to that goal. it's not so much that i want the best of the best, but i don't want to build an engine (even if it has 500hp or hell even 1000hp, not that 1000 would happen) and have it blow up bcuz i could of used a better part, u know what i mean? and i guess another problem is that there r only 3 machine shops in pittsburgh (i think, yellow pages shows 3)

Pittsburgh Machine Services
Rebco Auto Parts Inc
Whiteman's Competition Machine Service

so far the last one sounds like they would do, but they r 30+ miles away.

 

Chico
I'm not sure if what I said last night at 1am made much sense. So I'll say it again in a different way.

You asked what is good in terms of hp / $
and in the next sentence, you asked what I'd do to upgrade the ZZ383.
And those are two contradictory concepts, because the upgrades that I'd choose to do on that engine wouldn't nessecarily be ones that would improve the hp / $ rating.

The combo of my own, which I posted earlier, and westmans combo are very similar. And they're typical of a budget stroker buildup.

Cast crank $175-$200, Imported rods $175-$250, Hyper pistons $250-$300

If you have to scrape and buy your parts one at a time, that's the bottom end combo that a lot of guys will put together. It's referred to as a rotating assembly.

Here's a rotating assembly that I'd get if I had $5000 budgeted for my engine.

Callies Dragonslayer crank $800, Manley rods $600, SRP pistons $600.

The thing is... neither rotating assy would make more power than the other.
With the same cam and heads, and other parts, an engine with either of those rotating assemblies will make the same power.
But at a significantly different rate of hp / $.

The point here is , if you want to save money, there are great savings to be found in getting a well selected budget rotating assy. And it isn't going to change the power output of your engine in any way that's going to be noticable.

The ZZ383 is a good engine, and for you, possibly it's a good choice, if that $5000 is eating a hole in your pocket. Because it took me about 6 mo of doing searches (maybe more) to sift through all the stuff that different aftermarket companies sell before I made my mind up what's best for me.

Edit:
Go to www.competitionproducts.com

Order their printed catalog cause they don't show all their stuff on their site. They have some good deals on some really good Made in USA parts.
If you have the $$, that's the sort of parts you should be getting. If you do you'll be forever stoked.

 

i'll only ask one more thing....is going with your suggested Callies Dragonslayer crank $800, Manley rods $600, SRP pistons $600. would the only thing that would do is make the bottom end stronger, or lighter (less rotational mass, i guess that's right) or just to say that i have a more expensive engine

lol i guess i should stop posting in this thread b4 i start to annoy people...THANKS again

i'm starting to understand......i hope :lala:

 

Those parts are the stuff that guys like me wish we could get.
Why? A number of reasons, one of them is that those parts are just plain good lookin. An import crank looks ugly standing next to a good American crank.
Another reason is quality control / security.
In engine design, statistacally, an engine assembled with higher quality components is less likely to encounter failure than one with lower quality parts.

Although it would need to be broken down more specifically than this, a possible sample of the failure rate of American parts vs import parts might be something like this:

400hp - import 1 in 80,000, American 1 in 200,000
450hp - import 1 in 15,000, American 1 in 150,000
500hp - import 1 in 1,000, American 1 in 100,000

These aren't actual stats.
But it's an example of how the lower failure rate of American parts as opposed to import parts might effect you as an owner.

With American made, there is a much lower possibility of a failure due to a defect in the part.
But no matter what you get the chances are pretty slim that there will be a defect that produces breakage at the 450 hp level.

If 450 hp is your target, then you can figure that almost any parts will survive. Up around 500hp is where import parts start reaching their limits.

Hope that made sense.

 

yes, it does. man i'm soo happy bcuz i keep learning more about this stuff every day. i know it'll be awhile b4 i can start on this but u've convinced to build my own and not get a crate. unlike other people who just say "don't buy a crate, just build your own" and i'm like "ya...ok"

would any 350 4 bolt main block work? or should i be looking for something, my other fear is getting a block that will crack when i goto drive the car < once again this is my ignorance, i don't know if that would happen

:hail: :hail: thank you :hail: :hail:

 

any 4 bolt will work or 2 bolt for that matter. For high HP I recommend a 4 bolt.

 

For really high horsepower, I would get a 2 bolt block, and have splayed 4 bolt caps installed. Much stronger than traditional 4 bolt block.

 

Glad I was able to pass along some useful info.
That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Next you have to realistically ask yourself how fast you want to go, and what the car's purpose will be, and how much down time you're willing to tolerate.

 

i've seen it talked about a little bit on TGO and heard that was expensive.

i guess it's not so much how fast i want to go but how fast i COULD go if i wanted to. a dream would be 500hp/500trq but i'd like to try and get 450+hp and 500 trq. like i sed b4 i drive my car maybe 1,000 miles a year. i have a new car to drive so my trans am is not a needed car daily. and i'm not worried about downtime. but that's y i want to build it right the first time so i don't have sooo many problems

 

Guys who sell motors talk in terms of HP at the crankshaft.
On these boards they talk in terms of Rear Wheel HP or rwhp, 475 hp = about 400rwhp.
400 rwhp is a realistic goal for a 383... Challenging but realistic. That should put you into the 11s if your car can handle that.

Try searching these topics;
400rwhp
comp xr282hr
afr 195
You'll find a lot of stuff on good 383 combos.

Happy Educatin'

 

sorta off the topic but has really had me wondering...what is Bhp.....Brake/break (don't know which one) hp. just some uk euro crap??

and thanks again. soon as i get a new job i'm gettin a block and having it machined so i have it to start :hail: :hail:

 

I don't know what BHP means, but do you know what a roller cam is?

 

i know OF roller cams, but don't really know what makes it a roller cam. i know roller lifters but not too sure the diff between Hydraulic and Mechanical lifters, they look almost the same i think

 

I'll give you my suggestion for a combo that should fit your budget.
I've never tried this combo, since my stroker motor is going to be for my truck. But this seems to be a popular setup. It's what I'd choose for my camaro for a high octane carbed engine. In your situation it seems like it would be a good choice.
Since it isn't a daily driver and fuel economy isn't a priority, a somewhat longer duration hyd roller cam would stretch out your power band and still not leave you hurting for bottom end tq.

'87 or later 3/4ton or other heavy truck 4 bolt 350 roler block, milled to anywhere from zero to .005 deck clearance

Eagle ESP balanced rotating assy with forged flat top pistons

Some good aluminum heads with 195cc or 200cc runner vol, like AFR, Protopline, Dart, TFS, Canfield, Brodix etc

Comp XR282HR or XR288HR hyd roller cam
Comp Pro Magnum roller lifters
Comp Pro Magnum rockers, 7/16" studs

Edelbrock RPM air gap intake
Holley 750vs or DP, or Edelbrock 800 carb

MSD vacuum advance distributor
MSD 6AL

1 3/4" long tube headers

This would give you a little over 11:1 compression with 64cc heads which is high, but guys are using that and claim no problems in most cases with the cams mentioned above and aluminum heads. With iron heads the CR should probably be lower tho.

The rotating assy could be upgraded to made in USA parts for about another $400.
Also I suggest the Edelbrock (or Carter) carb, because for a guy who's new at jetting, they're easier to work on. You don't have to take it off the car to get to any of the jets.
I have a Holley right now, but I've tried them both and I can attest to that.

Can't wait to hear about how you soiled your shorts the first time you drove it.

 

a few ?'s

wouldn't i have to run high than 93 oct with 11:1 cr? right now there's a thread going about willie and his Scat crank and someone sed that the eagle rotating assy has the scat crank. heads i was looking at the AFR 195. with the carb i was going to try and stay with my stocker and mod it to make it flow the 700-750 people say it can, only bcuz of the CC crap, could i do that? adn with the headers, i just bought (b4 i thought of building an engine) some headman 1 5/8 ACS coated headers with 3 in collector and was going to have 2.5 in true duals custom made for it, would that be ok for the kind of engine i'm looking at? i read somewhere that if i use a certain lifter i have to machine the block for them but can't remember what lifters it was. still a little confused on the cams and lifters (hyd, roller, solid, ect) and as far as the air gap goes, i've also heard some bad things about it. i know it's not realistic, but i'd love to have it the same hight and all so i can still use my stock hood with functional cowl, so it can suck cold air in

 

I'm not really sure abt the 93 octane with 11:1, cause I haven't tried it.
Personally I wouldn't go that high, cause my car would be transportation.
By ordering dished pistons rather than F/T, the CR can be adjusted down, or you could order heads with a larger chamber vol for the same effect.
I think if it were me I'd go with 10.5:1 or so CR.
AFR 195s would be a great choice. You can get those heads with a 68cc chamber and that would lower your CR to 10.5:1. Also the AFRs can be ordered with a bolt pattern that would match your intake that you have alrady, and that setup with your CC q-jet carb would work until you decided to upgrade.
Same with the headers that you have. They'll work, and you can upgrade later with no major mods to the engine.
As for the lifters... There are some guys who are doing this retrofit roller thing using V6 roller lifters in a flat tappet V8 block (like I'm trying in one of my motors). For that, the block needs some custom work. I don't suggest that you try that. If you get an 87 or later SBC block, it will already be set up for roller lifters, it might even come with a good usable set already in it. That would save you $250 or so.
As for the Scat/Eagle crank mixup... Just make sure that you know what you want and specify that. There are bunches of reputable dealers who will sell you a good rotating assy.

Here are some links you can browse for info, I've bought from all of them
http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...start&catid=63
http://www.primediapowerpages.com/cg...titionproducts
http://www.parts123.com/PartFrame.as..._Track_Thunder
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/category.asp?CtgID=1020
http://www.dyno-flo.com/proddetail.a...SPC003&from=26
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Catalogs/106-03/
http://kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp

 

sounds like if i get an 87+ block i should be fine then.



o ya....almost forgot.....:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

 

It ain't rocket science
Shopping for SBC parts online is fun.