five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I may be leaving your ranks.

My brother has a '93 1500 that has had a soft knock since he got it with ~90k on it. It now has 180+k, is using oil to the tune of a quart in 500-700 miles (#6 cylinder only), the knock is getting louder, so he's looking at getting a rebuilt crate. If he does, the core vs. shipping makes sending the old motor back almost senseless, so he said if/when he does it, the shortblock is mine.

With small dished pistons, the rest of my setup around a fresh 350 would be pretty sweet, I'd think.

So, it could be my 5 liter days are limited...

Sitting Bull

Say it ain't so, Tim

When my 305 bites it I'll be doing the same

sellmanb

with all that you've done to your car I'm surprised that you hadnt done it sooner frankly lol. Glad you're upgrading the 'ol Berly :hail:

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

There's nothing "wrong" with the 305 as-is. I've got an oil leak somewhere in the back, suspect intake manifold; and oil use is higher than I'd like, suspect poor choice in valve stem seals. Rather than tear it down to fix those little things now, I'll add the oil and clean the plugs from time to time, waiting until the 4-inch "bore kit" is available and fix them properly then. Other "priorities" have precluded the procurement of said kit up to this point.

Petes 84Z28

Hard to say 'no' to a free core. I'd probably do the same

N8MAN1068

traitor!

j/k.

I think most of us 305 guys would really like to get a 350 someday, we just dont see the point in throwing away a perfectly good 305.

Personally, when my 305 goes, i'm gonna bump up 101 cubes to a 406.

Tremo

When my LB9 bites the dust (hopefully not soon), I'll also go with a 350 replacement. The LB9 still starts instantly and runs strong, doesn't leak a drop or smoke visibly, but it is using oil to the tune of a quart every 1500 or so. No knocking or other strange noises, only the clackety-clack of the injectors.

If I build a 350 it will definitely be a 4-bolt roller motor, with TPI, hey, it's a street daily driver!!! I would like to go with a totally forged bottom end, even though I'll never make enough power to stress it that much. It would have to pass Cali emissions.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

Awesome! Right around the same time I get my 400 running

BADDEST305

you'll be glad you did. there's only so much you can get out of a 305. i got 11.47 on a 150 shot with mine. wanted to go to a 200 shot and try for a 10 sec pass but bought my new motor before i got a chance to try it. now i got 129 more cubes and run a full sec faster with no nitrous. the 305 was a lot of fun but not as much as a 434

Coop91SRS

I got this number from NHRA website, 1987 chevy camaro 305 NHRA stock eliminator: 11.192 et

rules and engine specifications can be found on the site as well. Using stock components and limited to the stock lift.. these guys run exceptionally well!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I didn't mean to imply I was getting it for free. I'll give him the difference between the core charge refund he would be getting and return freight charge he'd be paying.

Two things I've consistently said:

1) My car is faster now than it would have been if I had spent the same amount of money I've spent this far if I had put in a 350 instead.

2) If a 305 shortblock needs $s put into it, go find a 350.


Something we could add to that:

NHRA stockers spend a lot more money getting into the 11's than BADDEST did.

And they don't drive their car to the track.

Coop91SRS

Oh I know all about the money those guys spend.. My boss races stock eliminator, 69 camaro w/ 327.. runs 11.1's and spends huge amounts of money on a weekly basis. Wish I could afford a hobby like that.

My only point was that if built correctly.. 305's will run with the best of them. There is one 305, 85 maro that ran a 10.88 in stock elim's.. :hail:

88fbird

Agreed

DonP

Someday I'd like to do the LS1 / T56 swap.

But right now, I have a 305 with 74K on it, runs clean with the only exception of valve seals.

Hopefully by the time my 305 dies LS1's will be a lot cheaper than they are now.

no_car_yet

yep the 305's are alright for a little while, but when they go its usually a good oppourtunity for replacement.. my 305 is taking too much oil(burning it and leakin) plus it got 100 000 miles on it...it recently went 15.0 in my GTA with auto and non posi, which isn't bad for a a mostly stock 305 but it isn't good for my GTA so i got a .040 over 400 currently in the machine shop

Vader

At the present rate, my 305 should be ready for some repair service sometime in 2042. Presently, I'm eyeing the 472 SBC as a replacement. No, not 427, but 472. Maybe not the greatest for a T-Top car, but I'm sure it can be beefed to survive it if I'm creative (and still alive).

Tim, you dog. Better be shopping for an engine stand, and plan on having a good winter project. It's coming, you know...

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Some may recall my musings about putting the 396 in the Camaro and retaining the CC controls (eligible for 5-year, no-emissions-inspection/testing-required tags in '06). That, I think, would constitute a true winter project. Somehow, the 4" bore kit sounds like a lot less of a project.

To think, I sold a near-new "extra" engine stand for $15 at the swapmeet earlier this year...

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Ah, another low-mileage example. Mine's in the 164k range.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

At 87 years old, I'll probably be ready for something else myself.

88Camaro350

My 305 died at 113k.

I have a 350 now. I should have gone with a 400...

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Yo, my 305 has 123000 on it, I just re-built the heads and the pistons were just in great condition. I dont plan on getting rid of my 305, as a matter of fact I am planning on making it pretty damn fast. It will sound like a real muscle car when I am done with it.
305 are WAY underrated. Yes!!!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Well, I've pretty much gone as far as you can while staying within the requirements of emissions inspection and testing with a 305. And, with those restrictions, you aren't going to get it to "sound like a real muscle car". Besides, whiny sounding LS1's will walk all over those old "muscle cars" with their great sound.

305's aren't "underrated". They just under-perform for the money compared to what the same money will do to the performance of a 350. My point is and has always been that you have to make the same changes around the engine for a 305 or 350, so just putting in a 350 without making those other changes will not produce the same improvement as only making those changes around a 305.

I've done that, the 305 runs fine and will probably continue to for a long time if nothing else is done, but if/when the opportunity to improve the bore/stroke ratio presents itself, that is more cost effective than anything else I could do to the 305.

I will admit that I would like to have had the opportunity to fix the 2-3 shift issue and get 3.73 gear in to see what the 305 can really do, but if I can go 350 and fix the 2-3 shift and never get to the 3.73's, I'll settle for that.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Just remember the old saying....

THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT

A 350 will always be able to walk a 305 with the equivalent mods done on each.

Just my opinion, YMMV (but not by much I'd guess...)



- Ye Old Phat Phart, Vern

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

My brother emailed me last night. He drove the truck from Omaha to Michigan last weekend (something about "MIS", or some such silliness), said it used a quart every 300 miles. He wants to do the engine the weekend after Labor Day.

This is what he's considering http://www.rebuilt-auto-engines.com/...46&p_catid=111 . I posted on the Aftermarket Vendor forum to see if anybody knows anything about them. I've never heard of them, but that doesn't mean a whole lot. He was considering a TBI version, I said get 083 heads instead, then found that listing for him. Roller cam, too.

The difference between core & freight is $50 on this one - we'll see if he bites.

For the record, the LG4 shortblock will turn over 165,000 miles by the next fill-up.

Streetiron85

My 305 died too, I bought it that way.
I've come to the conclusion that I need two engines for my car... One to pass inspection, and the other for fun/excitement.
The inspection motor will be a 350 disguised as a 305... A 350 roller truck block with 305 heads and the TPI that came in the car. Prolly a zz4 cam.
One thing about the truck engine that came as an unexpected surprise, was that it came with X rods, which are a more durable rod than typical OEM ones.
And in addition to that, I'm completely certain that those rods have had an easy life, coming from a TBI truck. My truck had a 5k rev limiter built into the ECM.
The fun motor will be more built than that. Solid roller, HP heads and intake, but still pump gas friendly.

Enjoy your project

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I have one more inspection, to be performed no more than six months before the registration renewal which will be due in Nov. '05. After that, I can get 5-year "collector plates", with which no inspection is required as long as you don't let the plates expire.

In order to pass last time, I did a "major" tune-up (plugs, wires, cap, rotor, plus some adjustments), and hooked up the A.I.R. system which I hadn't bothered to install when I did the mods (which was right after having passed inspection/testing 2 years prior). Considering the hassle that was, I don't want to think about an "inspection" engine and a "fun" engine.

Besides, I have the '57 for "fun"...

Thunderstruck

Hey all, thought you might find this interesting. The 305 HO. in
my 84- Z has 140,500 miles on it and runs like a scalded dog.

Now for the interesting part 10 yr old wires ! Cap and rotor are 10 yrs old ! Plugs are the same ! orig CC carb and dist/ coil. Yep, I know all of you are either thinking or I'm just plain lazy... Not so. I have done mods on top of keeping all of the old ignition parts.

These mods are : G hanger, CC rods, air flap mod, full three inch exhaust with no cat ( I know... ) super 40 Flowmaster, and
using the stock dual snorkel AND stacking dual KN's under
my 3 inch Harwood. This thing will pull clean until 6,500 with
no sign of surge or breaking up. I realize that I'm beyond the
curve at 6,500, but the engine isn't complaining. Although I do shift at 5,800. I have all emissions equip on the top side with the exception of a non-functioning air pump.

This car gets 19 MPG on the Hgwy and use a Qt of oil every
4000 miles ( if I let it go that far ) The thing I'm curious
about is just how far this damn 305 is going to run with the
old ignition system. I'm willing to find out though.

I've built and owned many SBC's through the years, but I
gotta give to this old girl, she gets better with age.
I can verify what I've stated if I can get together with any of
guys at a show or meet.

Kinda strange don't you think ? It makes you wonder if
the saying isn't true about leaving well enough alone
It would apply to this 305 for sure !!



John B.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

As the old saying goes, "If it ain't broke, you must be doing something wrong."

SSC

Tim your brother might consider a Jasper engine for that price. Jasper uses NEW (World Products) or (Dart) heads with all of thier SBC builds and the core cost is $300. Ive never heard of the place in the link but We have hade plenty of luck with Japser engines, cam upgrade for one is $50-$100.

I still vote for the 396 swap.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

If he didn't order today, I'll drop him a line and suggest that to him. He's pretty thorough in his research, I'd be surprised if he didn't look up Jasper through local outlets. But, I'll check.

You remember that "CCC 396" stuff, huh? That would be cool, but that would mean a different engine for the '57 first, would drive additional costs in the Camaro (like cowl hood), etc., etc., etc.

SSC

Oh yea I remember. The hood shouldent be a factor, Ive seen a small deck BB under the hood of a 3rdgen with a stock hood and one of those old GM drop base bottems. A cowl hood is a good thing, as Martha would say except in the fundage area. Brackets on the other hand to keep all the ac and such intact might be a problem.

Oh and another thing about Jasper, they will send your brother a 4 bolt main. Thats standard practice with them for a replacement truck or upgraded car application. I know alot of our customers really get thier jollies off of "upgrading" to a 4 bolt for no extra fee.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Too late. By the time I got home and checked my email, he had ordered it. He's happy.

Their 4-bolt was the same price as a 2-bolt, but the core charge was higher.

I saw a Jasper semi on I-25 last week.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Okay, more Jasperations:

He said they were pretty "proud" of their engines. Almost twice the cost to get it to his door as he's spending with this Spokane outfit.

He's pretty excited. Transplant surgery scheduled for September 11th. Our other two brothers are showing up for the "party" - afraid I won't be able to get to Omaha that weekend, though.

SSC

Yea they have a warehose somewhere up there, probably comming down to Pueblo to drop off another 7.3 at our shop. I guess we really do get a big break with them.

So are you going to transplat the World heads to the 350?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

That's the idea. Current heads, cam, intake, carb, headers, etc. I'll pick the pistons & head gaskets to keep CR about 9.5:1.

I wondered if you were getting sweetheart prices. They don't post prices on their website ( www.jasperengines.com ), did notice "installer" and "fleet customer" references.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

He emailed me this morning saying the engine has arrived. Still planning on changing it out the weekend of the 11th (the brothers are doing a project at Mom's this holiday weekend - planned before he decided to do the engine).

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

Cool stuff five7...

I finally got rid of my 305 a few weeks ago... and can't be happier w/ the 355. Just a whole different sound, of course I did do heads and cam at the same time so that might help some!!!

KnightWarrior

I just rebuilt my stock LG4 305 at 192,000 miles and it was running fine when the guy tore it down. He said internally there was nothing wrong with it, but the 20 year old seals and gaskets had seen better days.

Poncho Villa

Ah yes, the eternal question of 305 vs. 350. Of course, it goes without saying that the 350 is a bigger motor, but that doesn't mean you can't have fun with the 305. My old Camaro had a 350, and my current 305 is just as fast. At 158,000 miles, my 305 still starts up and runs like a dream, even better than when I got it. Gets up and goes too, and does not use a single drop of oil in 2500 miles, which is when I change it, or sooner.

(May have been rebuilt by previous owner, any way to tell?)

Have read up on heads, cam swap, all that good stuff, and of course Hot Rod Magazine's 330 hp/378tq Vortec heads/cam 305 with nothing more than a new top end and Holley TBI unit. Yes there are some bada$$ 305's out there. Have my own wishlist for my 305...

However, all depends what you want to do. Does it make sense to spend 3 grand on a build up of an old motor, or spend the same to swap in a larger displacement mill with greater potential? The challenge of hotrodding is building up what you've got. However, if what you've got is ready to be rebuilt or replaced, then it might be more cost effective to move on to another motor. Also, if smog isn't a consideration, like it is here in Cali, you might as well just dump in the hugest most outrageous crate motor you can find, like the "Merlin Hardcore," which has something like 700 hp.

When my motor finally needs a rebuild, around 2132, me and my cryogenically frozen head will have some choices to make.

ME Leigh

Do you know which place in Spokane that was? I'm looking for a good place for my new build.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The link in my post from 8/24 above.

http://www.rebuilt-auto-engines.com

DonP

Is this place for real? a mopar V10 long block for $3,137???

A 360 with the good heads (915 castings) for $1,183?

A 440 long block for $1,448?

If they only had hemi's!

7 year 70,000 mile warranty?

Sounds too good to be true.

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

For a few hundred more, he could've gotten a '97 LT1 longblock.

EDIT: That place is nuts. You can get the 6.6 out of a '76 T/A for $1315 and a $200 core...or a 327 for $950 plus core charge.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I asked about them on the Aftermarket Vendor review forum https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=256541 , no hits.

Guess we'll know in a couple of weeks whether the engine "works", longer to find out if it will last.

DonP

five7kid,

Please let us know. I've asked my Mopar forum friends if they've heard of this place too.

CamarosRUS

im ditching the 305 too. its a vebry strong 305 burns oil on startup but thats it. its got 167xxx on the clock and will run forever it feels like. but the power is lacking for me now and that 383 on the stand just cant wait to jump in the car.....if only i had a tranny and rear to handle it

DonP

Did you ever get that air conditioning fixed?

Every one else:

What is the factor difference between a 1990 TPI 305 and a TPI 350 from the best year, power wise? I can't figure out why a motor with 45 more cubes isn't a lot more powerful.

What gives? Why are the two rated so closely?

CamarosRUS

man i wish....i think its due to a bad electrical problem. my car isnt running right now and it feels like a weak electrical system, im getting different charge levels all the time, and im having starter problems. theres a missing link beetween them i just have to find it.

as far as the 305 vs. 350 thing. ive honestly never been in a 350 car so i wouldnt know for sure but there is a difference. and if both engines are healthy its a pretty big difference.....but 350's had auto trannys so unless it was swapped in a t5 car or visaversa it may feel similar due to the auto tranny. ive got a 305 with 3" mandrel bent exaust and no cat along with headers and its loud but not nearly like what a 350 would be.

Red Devil

*cough* 'bout time 'Kid *cough*

DonP

CamarosRUS,

That sucks about your electrical. With this weather, I'd be dying without cooling. When the alternator went out in my Saturn, it (while it was out) took out the gauges, air, and the weirdest thing - I couldn't shut off the damn radio. Of course it went out on the hottest day of the year, on my way to school. Almost made it home (2 miles), had to have the wife bring a booster battery, and took GTA to school.

New alternator, and everything with the Saturn was as good as new.

That's the thing with our T5's, I'd be afraid to put too much power in. If and when I eventually swap, I'm going all out - an LS6 with a T56 behind it. Only problem is my 305 is running next to great - I have a miss under load that I hope to get rid of with new plugs, wires, etc. It has leaky valve seals, but other than that, it pulls great (less the miss). At the rate I'm putting miles on it (Saturn does daily driver duties) it will be a long time before I switch.

And talking loud, I have a big break in my exhaust right after the cats - poor mans cutout - makes it plenty loud when I get on it. Just put a cutout somewhere along the exhaust and you'll be happy.

My motor is bone stock - I need a new exhaust bad.