Error404

I have an early 90's Crate 350 Truck engine, 76cc chamber truck heads and a Melling "torquer" MTC-1 cam shaft*

I'm wondering what a good intake manifold and carburetor would go best for my engine? I'd like alot of low-end power, but not horrible on gas milage. Any good combos for this?


*http://www.melling.com/production1.htm I have the first cam listed on the table, MTC-1.

SSC

Since you swaping the TPI for a carb (I assume) you will gain quite a bit of power reguardless of what carb or intake you use. Ive used the MTC-1 for many different engines, seems a potent choice for a near stock 305 but a 350 even a crate engine could use a bit more lift. But if your leaving the lower half of the engine alone and action+, stealth or performer RPM will all work well. You really cant beat a nice Q-jet for power and economy but If you want to go with a holley or edelcrap any of thier 600CFM flavors will suite your combo fine.

Error404

I'll be leaving the lower part of the engine alone, just swapping the intake out (and distributor, and whatever else needs to be swapped).


I don't see any Q-Jet carburetors in the 600 CFM range, you mentioned holley and edelbrock, doesn't edelbrock make the Q-jet carbs?


As for the intake manifold, I see on jegs an Edelbrock Performer RPM with installation kit for just under $150, that one would be good? I have a feeling that the intake manifold is alot less critical than the right carb/tune, right?

Which carb would be the easiest to use? I don't know how to tune a carb so I'll have to learn

thanks!

jimmy_mac

Don't know if you've thought about it but the perfomer RPM may give you hood clearance issues. I knew before hand and am running one anyway. You figure ways around it. Q-jets are typically 750 cfm and that's not a problem because how much it gives the motor is determined by the tension of the spring on the secondary butterflies vs. what the pistons are sucking in. Same goes for a vacuum operated 750 cfm holley. No reason to go small with a vacuum secondary operated carb since it will only give your motor what it asks for. Both are easy to tune. Q-jet is a little easier because the metering rods are accessed from the top as opposed to jets to change internally on a holley. But I have found the holley I am currently running feeds the forward cylinders better so my number 1 piston isn't running as lean as it was with the q-jet. Either way you go make sure to get an electric choke with it if you plan on driving in the cold.

Error404

well, the Holley 750 with Vacuum Secondary is about $260, while the Q-jets are all over $450... I know which one I want ;-)

So, would it be any better/worse to use the Holley carb on an Edelbrock manifold? or would it be just kind of **** to stick with the same brand carb and manifold?


Which manifold would give me the best clearence? I don't want to have to cut up the hood or pound the inside, I'd much rather just go with a different manifold. I assume manifolds arn't really critical as far as power and economy are conserned?

thanks again for all the info! This forum has been a great help to me!

ljnowell

I would stick with the edlebrock carb, but that is just because I like them. Most people here like to bash them, but thats ok.

Error404

would the edelbrock be worth paying 2X the money? I'd really rather not.

ljnowell

The edelbrock Q jets are great carbs. But so are the edelbrock performers. YOu can pick one of those up cheaper than you can a holley.

Error404

ok, thanks :-) I'll look around and see what I can find.

What about intake manifolds now? what will give better clearance than an RPM Performer? Something thats good for lowend (if I have any options here). But something not to expensive.

any suggestions?

thanks!

Error404

will a Weiand Stealth manifold (summit #WND-8016) fit nicely under a stock hood?

What air element should I use? I'll probably pick up the cheapest one I can find for the time being.

Any comments on the Weiand Stealth?

Stekman

Weiand stealth is a great intake. Lots of hood clearance (just look at it! It's short). It's got an ample powerband which supplies plenty of power down low and good power up top. If they made them for Vortec heads, I'd be all over it for the DD engine.

However, that cam isn't the biggest. So you may benefit moreso from something like the ZZ4 intake, which is like the performer, just a bit better. It's an emissions legal intake, not that that matters. But it's more or less tuned for that lower performace, like the performer intake, which would better suit the cam. Just something to think about.

For an air filter, I just use a generic 14" paper. Oh well.

Error404

ok, Weiand Stealth it is then I think I'm going to go with the Holley 750, if I ever get better heads (or at least ported) and cam, I might need the extra CFM. right?

As for the cam, yea I know it's not the greatest maybe that will change in the future

So, about the Stealth, are the bolt holes for the newer style heads, or the older style? I couldn't find a year reccomendation on them anywhere. 87 and up right? Well, my car is an 86, but that doesn't matter, my engine is an early 90's crate.

Stekman

The block has nothing to do with the years that they give when listing off the heads. The years are for reference due to the intake mounting bolts (heads). Post-87 heads have a different intake bolt arrangement. Still the 12 bolt pattern, just the center 2 on each side are slightly angled, differently than the pre-86 heads. On the 87-up heads, the 2 center bolts are drilled at 72°, rather than the normal 90° like the pre-86. If your heads are post-87, you will have to massage the center 2 bolt holes of that intake as that particular part number is for the pre-86 bolt holes. What heads do you have now? What casting number?

Error404

the heads were part of the crate engine in the early 90's, all I remember about them is that they are 76cc heads. Can I assume they are early 90's heads?

What kind of "massaging" do are you talking about? something major? or just a bit tricky?

Stekman

99.99% chance that they are smogger heads. So, they are the angled center bolts. Get the casting numbers and what crate was this engine (sorry if you mentioned it, i just skimmed)? The intake may or may not be the best choice depending on heads.

Anyway, the massaging I'm talking about is taking an electric drill and a round file that can be used to simply elongate the holes a bit.

Error404

yes, in fact I do believe they are "smogger heads"

The number on back of the block reads "10066036" the heads read "88 41 73 69 GM13" along with "Mexico". Here is some more information on my engine:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...=Mexican+Crate


So, if they *are* the smogger heads, then the intake will need to be drilled a bit?

Stekman

Hencho En Mexico block....Anyway, is it possible to grab the casting numbers off of the heads? Unless you plan on a head swap, you probably have a fleet replacement crate which would lead me to beleive 350 TBI swirl port heads or other bottom end smogger crap (think along the lines of the 882 classics), moreso the TBI than otherwise, due to the fact that you say "truck engine". In which case, your engine won't breathe high enough, at least not efficiently, in order to make good use of the Stealth intake. Sure you can get it, however, to me, the Stealth more or less comes across as the intake that is a cross between the Weiand X-cellerator (bottom end budget single plane) and the Weiand Action Plus, which is a solid street performer intake, much like the RPM series intakes from Edelbrock. I guess my suggestion as to what intake would be best lies on the cylinder heads themselves and the future plans, if any, for them. If they are the heads i think they are, the intake will need massaging.

As for the carb, the Edel series are more out of the box carbs that offer a good comprimise of fuel economy and WOT performance. They have a nice design as there are no gaskets below the fuel bowls so a gasket swap can be done without having to drain them (I've done it, once). However, the Holleys are also nice in the manner that they seem to be more of a "fine tune" design. Other than that, it would really matter on which Holley you are looking at. They do offer the VS or MS designs. Double pumpers and single pumps, many different variations covering the price spectrum. Do a search and you will get an idea as to what features you want and what you can do without. For example, on my street engine, I can do without the double pumper design.

As for future plans, You probably have the low end compression, typical of the TBI motors. That being the case, as for plans, as I would call them, get a set of 305 heads, 416, 601, or 081 are all castings to look into. They have the 58cc as cast chambers which would boost the compression. Get some carbides and an elec. die grinder and have at them. Have them machined for lift. An Xe270hr or ZZ4 cam would compliment nicely. A ZZ4 intake with a 750 Edel or similar carb. That would be a healthy street motor on a good budget for a factory roller block. Now, I would get the carb and intake now (ZZ4 intake). Do the heads (081 castings would make things easy as they could reuse the rocker arms and valve covers). and get the cam. Then you could swap heads and cam without having to change the entire setup. Just some food for thought. A cheap setup that makes the most out of the low compression block you have now.

Error404

Honestly, I'm not sure what I want to do with the engine when I graduate (in about 1 year). I do know that I want to start up a 32 ford project car sometime, so I dont want to get crazy with the camaro,

the heads read "88 41 73 69 GM13" along with "Mexico", I believe.

So lets say my heads are going to stay the same, and the cam is going to stay the same for at least 1 year. what intake would work best with my current setup? I really love low end power, if one gives better low-end than the other, I'd rather go with that one. But in all honesty, I want to tune the carb for economy for the time being, gas prices in Phoenix arn't to friendly right now.

As for the carb, I was looking at the Holley 750 double pumper with VS. To be honest I don't know a whole lot about carbs, but I want to learn! After searching I found that most people love this carb. what Edelbrock carb would be a good alternative, or would work better on my setup? a 600 cfm, Electric Choke Edelbrock performer?

Edelbrock claims that carb is "Bolt On and Perform Right Out Of The Box!" Thats great, and would probably be best, right? Though, I really do want to learn about carbs, and learn how to tune them. Could I learn on the Edelbrock? or would I most likely shrugg off learning because it doesn't need to be tuned as often?

thanks so much for your help, I really do appreciate it

Stekman

No prob on the help

I have no first hand experience with the Stealth. I do, however, know how the ZZ4 acts, how it performs. It's a good intake. Ask RB, I know for certain he has one. Price is a factor. The ZZ4 would probably be a little better on the low side than the Stealth. If the heads and cam stay, I would look for a ZZ4. I currently use one on the LG4 in my Caprice (intake cracked, It's all I had laying around ::shrug:.

I guess i have to ask: What is the rest of the engine like, particularly, the exhaust.

My final stance thus far: ZZ4 intake.

As for the carb, an Edel will get better milage than the 750 DP. I would go for the 750 cfm. Choke is up to you. I have an electric choke. If this is a DD with very little future at teh track (as I see things now), the Edel may be the better choice. Keep in mind, A DP carb doesn't have all the vacuum provisions like the Edel. carb does, which may be of importance. Also, another thing to notice, the rear fuel bowl on the DP carb covers the tappet port for the brakes. Alterations are needed. I have a nitrous plate aka-spacer to give space. This is not an issue with the Edel carb. The edelbrock is by far more of a bolt up and go. It has 3 ports up front and 1 out back. Plenty. Whereas the DP only has PCV out back and 2 small ports up front (one timed, one full). And it covers the hole for the brakes (not that that is a BIG issue, but an inconvenience for some, perhaps). All things to consider...

Error404

My exhaust is Edelbrock Headers (came on the car when I got it), a cutout (3 inch electronic), 1 cat, then 3 inch pipes all the way back to a generic flowmaster type muffler (might be a 40 series, I dont know), in that order.

I have been doing some more looking around, and I wonder if the 600 CFM Edelbrock carb would be better than the Edelbrock 750? Everywhere I read about the 750 I see it talked about for 402's and 454 on the Chevy side of things, and big block fords. My engine is a 350, and a mild one at that, the Melling MTC-1 cam (with lifters and springs to match), 1.6 roller rockers, and the rest is the mexican crate setup.

They say the 750 "For 402 c.i.d. and larger Performer applications. Lean calibration for maximum fuel economy."

Sure, it will be "maximum fuel economy", but for a big block. Would this really be better than a 600 on my engine? Keeping in mind, I don't have any major plans for the engine in the future (near future anyway).

Thanks again! I have decided to go with the ZZ4 intake, now I'm trying to decide if 750 is over kill for my engine, will I see a big MPG difference between the 600 and 750? if there is, will the power difference be greater?

thanks yet again

ljnowell

I use a 750 edel with my engine. 230 dur @050, .480 lift. It was a little rich out of the box, but it runs well. I also use a single plane, if that matters.

Stekman

Where have you been seeing/reading this thing abut the 750 is for 402cid and up engines? Kind of hard to understand since it is a recommended carb for the RPM series intakes, for small chevies, none the less. I'm sure you wouldn't be the first to run a dual plane intake with a 750 Edel. on top. But, for reference however, my car came with a #1406 600cfm Edel when I got it. Ran good, and like I've told you, it had a rather smallish cam.

Error404

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/carb_square.html

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...91&prmenbr=361 Click on 750 CFM "more details".

the 600 never really says what engine size it's ment for, so I'm not sure.



Everywhere I find the carbs listed, they all say about the same thing:


750 cfm, Electric Choke
For 402 c.i.d. and larger Performer applications. Lean calibration for maximum fuel economy. Provides excellent fuel economy when used on 454 c.i.d. Chevrolet and 460 c.i.d. Ford Performer applications. Includes both timed and full vacuum ports for ignition advance. Comes with the following jets, rods and springs: Metering Jets: Primary .110, Secondary .107; Metering Rods: .075 x .047. Step-Up Spring: orange (5'' Hg).



I don't mind it if it's only going to be 1 MPG different or so, or if the power boost is going to be more with the 750 than the 600, I just want to make sure that with the 750 I'm not going to be draining my gas tank everytime I get past 1/2 throttle.

I guess the 750 could be jetted down or something, right?

Error404

ok, I just ordered the ZZ4 intake, $190 shipped from www.gmpartsdirect.com

I'm going to pick up a distributor locally, and I'm going to order the carb as soon as I can be sure in my mind that 750 CFM (Edelbrock 750 Performer EC) isn't over kill for my engine. I'd like a few more comments on this, during my google searches I'm finding some people say 600 would be better, some people say 750 would be better. I don't want horrible MPG

Sorry if I am being a bother,

thanks!

yugi-master

I skimmed this a little fast and the intake choice i like, but have you thought of using a 650 spreadbore holley? I am still running a 600 edelbrock, but i have quite a few friends who have changed to the 650 spreadbore and had very good results over the edelbrock and q-jets. as for the 750 dp holley its a good carb but you mentioned wanting some kind of fuel mileage and in my limited experience with 750 holley carbs they drink more gas than what they are worth on a 350. (massively modified 350's, 383's, 406's and up i would suggest the 750 carb)

ljnowell

You can always lean out the carb. Edelbrocks have a history of being great out of the box carbs, but for best performance, you will have to calibrate it anyway. I have seen people put 750 edel on stock 305s before, you wont have anyproblems. This is the second one that I have had on a 350. The 600 would work just fine too though. The biggest thing is that the 750 would be able to grow with you.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

A 750 is more than the engine will ever need until you change the heads. A 600 would be more like it, but like said, the 750 will grow with you.

Error404

I just ordered the Edelbrock 600 EC Performer. I think I'll be happy with it. A friend of mine (who isn't in the state at the moment) knows how to tune them, and is willing to teach me when he returns

jimmy_mac

I think you confused the 750 DP holley with the 750 Vaccuum secondary. They are two different carbs. The 750 DP would be to much more than likely because there is no way to meter the amount of air being dumped into your secondaries except for your calibrated foot. The Vaccuum secondary model monitors that for you with the size spring in the vacuum module.

I get 19 mpg average with mine with 3.42 gears. 75% of my driving is highway however. Mine was perfect right out of the box. I ran leaner jets and didn't run any faster so went back to out of the box and my spark plugs look perfect.

My set up is also a 350 but with a 270 HR cam. So you might want to lean yours out by a couple of jet sizes only if you got that. But you could always richen it back after head and cam upgrade and not have to get a new carb.

And the only reason I run an edelbrock is because I have vortec heads. I would run the stealth if I could for clearance.

Stekman

I've used a 600 Edel on a mild 350 before. Small Crane cam (2020, IIRC), stock 416 heads, Performer intake, 9:1 compression. The carb performed fine. But, at the time, I had no plans to upgrade or go to a more powerful setup.

Air_Adam

A Holley 3310 would be a good carb for that motor... its a square bore, 750cfm Vac Secondary carb. I like mine.