TRAXION

Johnny,

No need to modify the governor. Just shift it yourself. Big problem though is that you might overshift. That's where the hideous B&M Megashift shines.

Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.587 @ 107.97mph (1.710 60ftr)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End.
Gunning for NA 11's with the MiniRam II and Hooker LT Headers.

Matt98SS

*Cough....cough* wonder who told you about that set up

anyways I went 108mph one pass on my 1991 305 TPI STOCK HEADS/CAM only bolt-ons on a T5 car. 1991 1LE....so I was flyin?

60fts mean all the world to me now...MPH is for 6-speeds

but I still agree that the Magnum car is weak....could get a 13.0 with the right set up on a L98 real easy

Mike 92LX

iTrader: (6)

You guys are a trip.

If Hunkin's car was running on Drs or even street radials the MPH would be up. You forget his car is not running much compression. One point of compression on a car like that would equal another easy MPH. Also comparing a T5 car with a auto in terms of traps is unfair because the 700 R4 soaks up power.
I would not be suprised if the car picked up a bunch more with a prom. I do think if a blower is being considered it might be a good idea to go with a shortrunner intake to kill some torque at low rpms. True that costs some money but I think it will pay off big time.
Don't know the cam you are running but I hope its matched to the power band you are running(READ LONG RUNNER INTAKE)
A mini ram is has a lot more meat than a stock Lt1 intake

I went 106-107 with my dual cat Formula 350 with stock runners,stock manifolds,stock gears and stock bottom end n/a. Full weight car too. I think the biggest mistake on these cars is not matching cam duration to runner length. I also think unless you change the base adding runners,TB etc... is not worth the money for the gain. The cam and heads should be attacked first along with the exhaust manifolds. I think for the money ported Aluminum L98s can't be beat for mild or even wild 350 cars that don't see above 6000 rpms n/a.


Good job and thanks for sharing the info.

Guido

Everything for LT1's are more expensive...

Keep up the fight Johnny. You guys will get it.
I would still like to see a Mini Ram article on the Magnum TPI car.

------------------
-86 IROC
-S-Trim, Mini Ram, etc.
12.17 @ 113mph
THE crew: ICON Motorsports

blak92!

What about the Hard Rock Camaro article in the media/magazine section of thirdgen.org? The camaro ran 12.4 with Ported vette heads, ZZ9 cam, TPIS big mouth, Large tube runners, and tranny mods.

Also, I forgot which magazine, might have been car craft or 'Vette that had a Corvette running 12.3 with the TPIS manifold and Large tube runners. If anyone could dig into their own archives of outdated car magazines, perhaps they could post that 'vettes combination.

I believe the Magnum TPI car is definatley out of tune. A custom prom and dyno tuning session or perhaps a DFI system from Cartek (DFI tuning master and where the parts were installed) would significantly reduce the times.


[This message has been edited by blak92! (edited July 25, 2000).]

Johnny Hunkins

Why not manually shift? Because when you manually shift, the overrun clutch must release on each shift--lengthening the shift time and increasing wear over just leaving it in "Overdrive." At least that's what the chart indicates in the ATSG manual!

Johnny Hunkins

I forgot to mention, in "Overdrive" the overrun clutches are not involved.

Also, I have one question, where in the heck were all of those really fast 115 mph naturally-aspirated cars when I yelled my head off for them on this very forum back in January? Hmmm...

nickd

One thing you got right for sure was the tq. converter.
I know I was not the first here to get one but I have been "preeching" about the Vigilante on this board for some time now.
Maybe this will open the eyes of some of those who have had such a hard time believing this converter is worth the price tag.
Look at the 60 ft times.
Nothing beats it.

ZBRA

Well, I am glad that they were no where to be found.


------------------

'91 Z28 Blue/Silver ZZ4/ZF6
328.4 RWHP 363.5 RWTQ

superiroc

Hey John Hunkins i will make you a deal, If i can hit 115 on drag radials you must promise to do a cover story on my iroc i know my car will do it. I plan on going to bristal to race so you can chech it out there. If i wasn't a student at PSU i could of had my car ready alot sooner.

superiroc

nice car zbra I like that setup alot very sharp.

D_Amlee

Personally, I really like the look of my TPI system.
http://www.theshop.net/damlee/engine4a.jpg

It's still going to look like this when I'm solidly into the 12s.

quickL98

iTrader: (2)

its true if you dont adress the base when modifying a tuned port your wasting your time...i'm in the process of swapping mine right now for a hi-flow unit. if you compare a tpi to an lt-1 in stock trim its not that bad, give the L98 an extra 1.2 pt's in compression and a more agressive cam like the LT-1 along with a more efficent exhaust manifold and i'm sure it would make 275 hp and way more torque....duh! its technology folks...how do you think carbuerator fans felt when tpi's first came out(other than blurred vision) . all iknow is that my GTA was quick with an LB9 (13's) and it'll be quicker with an 355 how quick , i dont know...if its not fast enough for some you well then supply me financially ...cause speed really is money and i'm(i'm sure there are others) not out to make every bench racer on the net happy with my car...if it only went 13.00 so what its not 100% yet!

------------------
87GTA 355TPI,A4 shooting
for low 12'

GMI FAST

Not that it makes any difference, but I ran 12.40's with:

stock L98 block
unported TFS heads
stock TPI
stock injectors
stock chip
SLP headers
Vortech A-trim, 8-psi
stock trans w/shift kit
3.70 gears

Just thought I'd share that!

------------------
1989 Formula 350, 10.5:1 383", TFS heads, Comp Cams blower grind, TPIS Mini-Ram, BBK 58mm throttle body, Vortech S-trim 15 psi, DFI, 42# injectors, S/X fuel system, MSD ignition, SLP 1.75" headers, Flowmaster exhaust, MW Racehouse 700R4, Currie 9" w/3.50 gears, Jeg's sfc's, Jeg's lca's, S&W 8-point rollbar, lookin' stock street racer...

Best ET: 10.796 @ 125.8 on 16" Sportsmans...

Jim Harrison

Gee it's great to see the bantering among you all. I am just glad to go fast on the way to work amidst those Porsches, GTs and BMWs. Haven't got caught by the man yet though.

Just curious Johnny, what do you think your top end speed is beyond the 1/4?

Jim

------------------
1992 Z28 116K miles - early mods: airfoil, plug wires, ADS chip, Flowmaster muffler

Current mods: Edelbrock intake, Accel AFR, SLP Siamese Runners

Future mods: ??????

TRAXION

Johnny,

You asked where all of those fast cars were in January. Well, I'll be completely honest. I didn't think that I stood a chance at being in GM Hi-Tech Performance. I didn't think I was fast enough. I knew my car looked the part ... just didn't think it was fast enough. Well, after seeing that issue I immediately knew that I was wrong. I should have applied. It was a judgement call and it was a mistake.

Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.587 @ 107.97mph (1.710 60ftr)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End.
Gunning for NA 11's with the MiniRam II and Hooker LT Headers.

TRAXION

Johnny,

About manually shifting a 700R4. You need to. You will get the best times at the track if you initiate the 1-2 shift at a higher RPM than the 2-3 shift. As an example - I shift 1-2 at 6500 and 2-3 at 6000rpms. This is because the RPM drop between 1 and 2 is very large, thus you need to push the RPMs higher before the shift so that the car will end up in the power band.

I am *not* disagreeing with what you said. I am just indicating how to get the best ET.

Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.587 @ 107.97mph (1.710 60ftr) on the long runner setup.
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End.
Gunning for NA 11's with the MiniRam II and Hooker LT Headers.

Johnny Hunkins

More compression + more cam = LT1 level horsepower!

Here's some trivia (the old-timers will remember this): In 1992, Chevrolet was going to build 602 Heritage Editition Z28s. At the last minute, they were cancelled. Each would've had a 275-hp TPI motor with a ZF 6-speed. They were all going to be artic white with black patches and black BBS-style weave wheels.

I was the last editorial person to drive one of the two prototype vehicles before they went to the crusher for demolition. I almost cried that rainy fall day in 1992 when I returned it to the press fleet in Edison, NJ.

It had unique runners on it--that was the only visual tip off. (There was a lot more however where you couldn't see).

This car was fast and would've been every bit as quick in the quarter mile as a '93 LT1 (which is what I ended up buying). The bottom line is that GM was holding out on us. They knew how to make these cars fly in street-legal trim all that time and never gave it to us!

It is the best 3rd gen that never was! Look for a full feature on it next year.

88SS6SPEED

iTrader: (2)

Hey Johnny, I remember hearing about those, were you able to get any photo's of the 2 proto-types or know of a link where I can look at some?

------------------
88 Monte SS 355 TPI/LT-4 HOT CAM/AFR Hydra-rev/ T-56 6-Speed

bigvic

This car has a write-up in the April 1992 issue of HotRod which also happens to be their swimsuit issue! Woo hoo! It's titled The Camaro that never was.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

uhhh... correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of the late L98's pulling LT1 power?

------------------
Drew
predatorman@hotmail.com
My Website
87 Iroc
91 Formula 14.3 @ 88mph
91 RS Convertible
92 S10

TRAXION

That is not correct. The late L98s has 245hp with a huge torque peak. The LT1s had 275-285 (310-315 in FH and SS models). The biggest factor was the the LT1s had more area under the torque curve (not so peaky). This allowed them to continue pulling in the 1/4 as compared to the L98s.

Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.587 @ 107.97mph (1.710 60ftr) on the long runner setup.
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End.
Gunning for NA 11's with the MiniRam II and Hooker LT Headers.

ZBRA

I have an old Super Chevy with the white Heritage Editition '92 Z28 that Johnny just mentioned. It had a 400 HP LT1 in it with the ZF6.

jeremy7777

damn guys to much talent on this board how about you all get together and start a company like slp

Cntrvrsy

I remember that Heritage Camaro it had SLP type runners on it with a speed density system. I also remember that '92 RS Camaro that the Chevy Race shop built with the 400+ hp LT1 that ran 12s. I don't know if they used the same car or not but that's where I got the idea 2 use the fuel pump from a GMC Typhoon. I got the magazines that those cars were in. I have 2 pull them out of the closet.

blak92!

No, the 25th anniversery Camaro was actually an RS, L98 with aluminum 'vette heads, siamesed runners, headers, zf6 speed, 1LE brake package, leaner WOT mixture, single outlet walker turbo muffler, 3.42s in the rear. The 2 prototype models had roll bars in them.

HP specs 275 at 4500 RPM
TQ specs 350 at 2800 RPM

Hot Rod went 14.00 at 100.60 on street tires, 13.83 99.87 on Goodyear slicks.

Source:
The Best of Hot Rod Magazine: Camaro Performance 1989-1996

[This message has been edited by blak92! (edited July 28, 2000).]

quickL98

iTrader: (2)

i've allways like the 3rd gen firehawks... those are sweet examples of 3rd gen.!EFI to! muscle.. werent those mid 13 cars??? anyhow they look awesome..

------------------
87GTA 355TPI,A4 shooting
for low 12'

Jed

Man am I kicking myself for getting to this post late! quickl98, I have an old issue of HPP in which a '92 Firehawk was tested. It ran 13.2@107 on 275/40ZR17 radials. With slicks or drag radials it'd definitely be a 12 second car.

One day I hope to build a 3rd gen Firehawk replica. I could look for an original, but only 26 exist, and I know the temptation to beat on it (reguarly) would be overwhelming, so...

The Firehawk is an excellent example of thirdgen potential, to say the least.

Jed
89 Formula 350

evilho7810

I'm sorry but the 92 firehawks are uglier than $hit. I think MUSTANGS look better.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

I think Max is onto something

GMI FAST

Yaaaawn...

"You can't polish a turd."

------------------
1989 Formula 350, 10.5:1 383", TFS heads, Comp Cams blower grind, TPIS Mini-Ram, BBK 58mm throttle body, Vortech S-trim 15 psi, DFI, 42# injectors, S/X fuel system, MSD ignition, SLP 1.75" headers, Flowmaster exhaust, MW Racehouse 700R4, Currie 9" w/3.50 gears, Jeg's sfc's, Jeg's lca's, S&W 8-point rollbar, lookin' stock street racer...

Best ET: 10.796 @ 125.8 on 16" Sportsmans...

Guido

Cant polish a turd?

LMAO


------------------
-86 IROC
-S-Trim, Mini Ram, etc.
12.17 @ 113mph
THE crew: ICON Motorsports

bowtieguy01

I just got to say AMEN to traxion. It is time for third gen owners to get respect from all crowds! I've got an 86' corvette, but the ONLY reason why I bought it over a f-body i was looking at was because this vette was cherry. I give f-body owners the upmost respect. I'm tired of all those ricers or rustang or cobra owners pull up to a light a look over and say"It's only a firebird or camaro." They are damn good cars and will beat the **** out of any of those cars!!!
But then again maybe the reason the line is being discontinued is for a lack of respect/enthusaim. As for the rustangs' they can polish that piece of **** blue oval all they want at car night, But meet me on the street where it counts and I'll wipe their *** all up and down the road. All always be waving the GM banner!
Bowtieguy01
86' vette
Going to paint it yellow name it tweety and have a custom tint job that say" I TAWT I ATE AT MUSTANG!"
B&M stage II shift kit
LPE cam 211/219 lift:.533/.560
borla exhaust
hypertech chip w/160 thermostat
LPE headers
future mods:LPE/Accel SuperRam EFI SBC Intake

92B4C3051LE

Bowtieguy......

you should put that on the back of the car, and then after it put


i did i did!!!!

Give us more Johnny!!!!!



------------------
1992 Texas DPS B4C 1LE FE2 5.0/5spd:
TPIS Tricks
Intake and Plenum Ported
Fully Ported Corvette Heads
NOS FI Fuel Pump
K&N's Adj. Fuel Pressure Regulator
Alston SFC's
Energy Supension Hyperflex system
MSD 6AL
SLP 1 3/4" SS Headers
3.73's with 275/55/16's out back...blew those now 2.73 one legger
My complete back seat
encompases my RF tunes...

Currie 9" on the way with 3.70 gears

Adam

Box of Rocks

Johnny,
I'll put my hat in for that. E-mail me at oldvette@bellsouth.net for some background information.
I'll pen a sample if you'd like.

BOR

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

All I have to say about it is that you are "thinking inside the box"

jeremy7777

if i remember correctly i could be wrong but 27 3rd gen firehawks were on order only 25 were made, 11 and 26 got cancelled i believe

quickL98

iTrader: (2)

i'm partial to 3rd gens . i believe they were built better. as far as the guy who said fire hawks are uglier then ****...your crazy what exclusive camaro actually saw a show room....
turbo ta , fire hawk, gta's

--------------------------------------------
C'MON boy let me see ya! dance!...

------------------
87GTA 355TPI,A4 shooting
for low 12'

TRAXION

25th Anniversary Special Edition RS

I went to Carlisle, PA today for the Camaro-fest. Chevrolet was there with their Camaro Legends tour. They had a First Gen, a Second Gen, a Third Gen, and a Fourth gen. Guess what the 3rd gen was? It was the only existing prototype of the 1992 25th anniversary special edition RS with the corvette L98, Tri-Y headers, crazy siamesed runners, 6-speed, and 1LE equipment. I was a little pushy and asked the Chevy guy if he could show me the engine. He told me to come back later. When I came back later he actually did show it to me. I asked him if I could snap a picture of the interior and he said ... 'Get your buddy to take a picture of you sitting in it' :-) It was cool to be in the driver's seat. If only I could have turned the key.

In any case, I wasted a whole role of film on the car. I got pictures of the VIN, the 1LE brakes, a couple shots of the interior (including the 6-speed badges), a couple shots of the engine (including the VERY WIERD siamesed runners - NOT SLPs), the Walker super turbo muffler, the tranny crossmember for the 6 speed, the dual cats, several of the exterior, and one shot of me in the driver's seat :-) I hope the pics turn out.

Now - I had a discussion with one of the Chevrolet Guys. The car was destined to have 255hp ... not 275. In fact, the plaque produced by Chevrolet for explaining what this car is says that it is suppose to have 255hp ... not 275. Furthermore, in my discussions with Mike (the Chevrolet guy), he indicated that they chassis dynoed the car not too long ago and it pulled 253hp at the rear wheels ... exactly what Chevrolet advertised.

Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.587 @ 107.97mph (1.710 60ftr) on the long runner setup.
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End.
Gunning for NA 11's with the MiniRam II and Hooker LT Headers.

GMI FAST

Pablo: Huh...?

------------------
1989 Formula 350, 10.5:1 383", TFS heads, Comp Cams blower grind, TPIS Mini-Ram, BBK 58mm throttle body, Vortech S-trim 15 psi, DFI, 42# injectors, S/X fuel system, MSD ignition, SLP 1.75" headers, Flowmaster exhaust, MW Racehouse 700R4, Currie 9" w/3.50 gears, Jeg's sfc's, Jeg's lca's, S&W 8-point rollbar, lookin' stock street racer...

Best ET: 10.796 @ 125.8 on 16" Sportsmans...

TRAXION

No need for the 'huh'. Read further up the board and you will see that Johnny and others were discussing the 25th Special Edition. They indicated that this car was suppose to have 275hp. I just wanted to pass along the information that says otherwise.

tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.587 @ 107.97mph (1.710 60ftr) on the long runner setup.
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End.
Gunning for NA 11's with the MiniRam II and Hooker LT Headers.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

he was talking to me tim

and GMI, Exactly

TRAXION

DOH!

Tim

Red Devil

Hey Tim, when are you gonna have the pics developed? I'd love to see some of them, esp. the runners and the interior.

superiroc

I was at carlyle today and that rs was just perfect. I also saw a yellow iroc with a 383 that runs realy good. These guys drove from Ontario with there 383 6-speed iroc pretty cool.

GMI FAST

Pablo: I do not know what you are implying. I hope "thinking inside the box" does not refer to me being close-minded. Those words do not hold much water coming from a guy spending money and efforts modifying a TBI Firebird...

------------------
1989 Formula 350, 10.5:1 383", TFS heads, Comp Cams blower grind, TPIS Mini-Ram, BBK 58mm throttle body, Vortech S-trim 15 psi, DFI, 42# injectors, S/X fuel system, MSD ignition, SLP 1.75" headers, Flowmaster exhaust, MW Racehouse 700R4, Currie 9" w/3.50 gears, Jeg's sfc's, Jeg's lca's, S&W 8-point rollbar, lookin' stock street racer...

Best ET: 10.796 @ 125.8 on 16" Sportsmans...

Ray87Z

253 hp at the wheels would put it well over 275 hp at the crank. The crank is where GM rates their cars at, so if it got 253 at the wheels it definitely isn't a 255hp engine... It wouldn't surprise me at all though if they rated them at 255hp anyway, but it would basically be a lie just as todays 305hp LS1 is underrated out the *** and GM knows it.

I hadn't realized GM had any of the 25th protos still around. I hope you are going to post the pics online, I'd love to see them.

------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray

[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited July 29, 2000).]

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

uh, your argument contradicts itself

[This message has been edited by Pablo (edited July 30, 2000).]

TRAXION

Ray87Z:

GM does not rate their HP at the crank (aka gross HP). They rate HP as net HP (aka rear wheel horsepower). So, when GM said that the 1991 Z28 5.7L had 245hp ... they meant rear wheel horsepower or net horsepower, not gross horsepower or crank horsepower. Therefore, what I previously said still holds to be true.

tim
PS I'll put the pics on a website when I get them.

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.587 @ 107.97mph (1.710 60ftr) on the long runner setup.
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End.
Gunning for NA 11's with the MiniRam II and Hooker LT Headers.

Lounge Lizard 6

Traxion, Ray is right. GM rates at the flywheel. Net doesn't mean at the rear wheels. It basically means with all the accessories hooked up. The old gross hp rating was with no accessories.

------------------
Mike

'90 IROC, 5-speed, ZZ4, & Trick Flows
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~