phess11

I hate to ask this since I know there are a lot of strong feelings on this subject. But I have an 83 LG4 with 105K on it. I am using 4gts of Castrol 10w30 with 1qt of Castrol Syntec. It uses about 1qt of oit every 5k miles.

It is no longer a daily driver but just my "for fun car". I would like to keep it a long time and thought I might go to Mobile 1. Is there any "down side" to doing this? Will it use a lot more oil? Any thought would be appreciated.

phil

DJP87Z28

Bad idea to mix those oils. And for you to start with Mobil 1 at the mieage and year of the car would be a waste of money and possible more oil leaks. Just use a good quality (and no mixing of types) oil and regular changes would be the best bet.

thirdgen88

I don't see it as being much different then if he bought Castrol Syntec Blend... If its using oil now, it will only be worse if you switch to synthetic. How much oil does it consume at 3000 miles (when you're supposed to change it)?? Does the motor have any exterior leaks?

ede

djp why exactily is it a bad idea to mix oil? other than it makes you feel good not doing it what hard or damage does it do?
since it's no longer a daily driver i'll guess you'll be changing oil becasue of a time interval instead of millage intervals. switch it and be done with it. only problem it may cause is removing a layer of old oil from a seal and creating a leak and i doubt that happens. i run M1 in my truck and suv and both have more miles than your car. also run it for last 5-8 years in my 35 year old tractor with no problems.

phess11

I live in Ohio and only drive the car in the summer. Is there a Mobil 1 weight I should use (10w30??)?

To DJPs point above, Since Castrol Syntec is not really a synthetic oil it can be mixed with other conventional oils. They advertise that very capability.

thanks,
phil

ede

all oils have to meet API specs and one of the specs is being compatable with any other oil, dino, vegtable, or synthetic. i'd run 5w-30 or 10w-30

owned

One thing to keep in mind- On an older engine made prior to the "computer age" (I would lump a 1983 engine into this category) there can be a lot more variance in tolerances as opposed to a newer engine.

This is one reason (fuel economy being another) that cars today use much lighter weight oil than in the past. Most of ford's new vehicles run 5w20 oil, a weight not even availible a few years back.

Most synthetics are thinner oils than their dino counterparts. For example, a 10-30 synthetic a lot of times pours like vegetable oil, where dino 10-30 tends to be thicker.

There is a lot of debate as to wether this matters, as a synthetic will supposedly operate at the same fluid thickness as any other oil once it warms up, as the synthetic will not be as affected by heat.

Still, there are a lot of people that argue that the thicker oil helps with the looser tolerances, and thus older engines that were factory assembled should only run dino oil.

DJP87Z28

Why not mix regular oil & synthetic, for one no gain on oil performance and two Cost with no gain. It may be compatable with other oils so run vegtable oil per your quote. Use Mobil One and cheap oil in your car and see the results not per API spec.

In all reality, it is not a good idea to mix regular & syntheic. Also the oil companies would be against this practice.

However: to each his own to what they want on their own cars. It was my opinion.

MrDude_1

hes not saying to bled or mix the two.

hes just pointing out that its perfectly fine to drain out the old oil, and pour in mobile 1. the two wont react or anything.

DJP87Z28

Read the first Post....your

MrDude_1

no im not.

Castrol Syntec isnt synthetic.


(athough re-reading the thread, someone said that earlier)

Ricktpi

Then please explain Castrol Syntec Blend. Not saying it has any real world benefit, but oil companies do market blended snythetic & dino oils.

ede

who wouldn't there be a gain in oil preformance? where are you getting your info from? any engine oil sold today would comply with API specs. why do you think it wouldn't?

Tom 400 CFI

Yep-yep. What RickTPI said. Synthetic blend IS dino and synthetic already blended from the vendor. Nothing wrong with mixing the two.

Ede mentioned that all oils have to meet API specs so they can be mixed. Partly true. All oils that are API cert'd have to be compatable that is for sure. BUT not all oils are API cert'd. Pretty much any oil you ever see, and certainly every "name brand" oil IS API Certified, but there are some off-brand/economy oils that aren't. They may say "Blended to meet API specifications" -or something like that, but they don't HAVE to be certified to be sold. Just a heads up for anyone looking to use "Valuline" (lol) etc.

That's not true. They weight rating of the oil is describing the very nature of the oil's resistance to flow. That's precisely what those numbers are describing. All 10 weights, all 10w-30's, all 5w-30's and so on, should flow at the same rate at the same temp, as there respective counter part, regardless of make up.

I have 130,000 miles on my truck, and 550 hours on my boat, and I run Mobil 1 in both. Point? Point is, high milage is no way to decide that you shouldn't use synthetic. The only factor in that decision, IMO is the cost to benefit ratio, and you need to figure thatone out yourself based on your use, environment, change interval, etc.

Two more things:
1. Your engine specifies 5w-30. That's what you should use. It'll give you better fuel economy, better camshaft lubrication at lower RPM, and offer sufficient protection in all weather.
2. Synthetic doesn't leak more than conventional oil. That is a myth that lingers from old days when synthetic oil did actually have some issues with seals. The synthetic oils used to lack the qualities that help keep seals supple and in good shape. Those days are long gone, and synthetics won't leak anymore than plain oil.

Tom 400 CFI

What ede just asked... I'd like to know where you're getting this stuff from too.

phess11

This came from the Amsoil site.

"Castrol (Swingdon, U.K.) and Mobil (Fairfax, VA) brought the debate over what is “synthetic” into view, as Mobil challenged Castrol’s replacement of polyalphaolephins (PAOs) with hydroisomerized waxes in their synthetic formulations. Exactly one year after the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus’ ruling in April 1999, upholding Castrol’s position that wax isomerates could be called synthetic, Petro-Canada (Toronto) advertised it would be referring to its very high viscosity index (VHVI) basestocks as a synthetic in the North American market. These products fall into the same API group (Group III) as wax isomerates, but could vary significantly in quality from wax isomerates. This market roar by Petro-Canada has carried a quiet undertone of moves from PAO to VHVI technology by several engine oil marketers."

Lucky 13

it was my understanding that with the synthetics being "thinner", was that they were "designed" that way.
with dino oil, it is high viscosity when it is cooler. as the oil heats, it becomes thinner. we dont want oil that is too "thin"
i was under the impression that synthetics were designed to do almost the opposite thin when cool, but thicken up as the heat climbs (to a degree). i switched to using synthetic in both my 88 Bronco(130k) and my 89 Camaro(109k) i noticed that the synthetic was "thinner" while i was pouring it in.
just my .02

Tom 400 CFI

All oil gets thinner as it warms. Even multiweights do this. The extent to which it thins is related DIRECTLY to the weight rating that oil carries. All multiweight oils have a base stock that IS the first number weight rating when cold. So a 5w-30 is a 5 weight base stock. It behaves and pours and flows like any other 5 wt oil when cold, synthetic or other wise. The vendor puts and aditive in it that expands as the oil gets warm, making it "act" like a heavier weight weight oil when warm. NOTE: I didn't say the oil GETs heavier as it gets warm, I said it acts like a heavier weight oil when warm...

A 40 wt oil at 250 degrees is thinner than a 5 wt oil at 70 degrees. But still thicker than a 5 wt oil would be at 250 degrees. Hence the addative to "beef" up the oils viscosity at the higher temp. So all multiweight oils act like the thinner oil they are based on at cold temps, and act like they thicker oil they are rated for at higher temps, thoug at that temp, it is still "thinner" than when cold. The advantage of synthetics (related to this issue) is that the addatives that make the oil behave like a higher weight oil would at a high temp, last longer, and with stand abuse such as over heating better.

If you noticed that the synthetic "was "thinner" while i was pouring it in", it was either rated at a thinner weight, a bigger opening in the bottle, the oil was warmer, or most likely it was in your head (you knew you were pouring in synthetic). Either way, simply pouring oil into your engine is about as sophisticated a viscosity test as the old SOTP meter is an accurate dyno.

Lucky 13

i read an article i believe in super chevy or hot rod about synthetics and how they differed from dino. that is where i rembered reading about the info on synthetics vs dino
as for the synthetic being thinner, no i was not in my head and yes i know that just "pouring it in" is about as callibrated as the seat of your pants test.
i was just stating my observations.
"The advantage of synthetics (related to this issue) is that the addatives that make the oil behave like a higher weight oil would at a high temp, last longer, and with stand abuse such as over heating better."-That is what i was trying to point out

Endi5oo

I prefer synthetic blends because at least that way you can mix oil additives and engine restorer. I don't believe that you can do that with pure synthetic or at least most of the people that I have talked to strongly are against it.

MrDude_1

you're ill informed if you're using any kind of oil additive for regular driving.....


heres a tip:
next time you go into the parts store, go play with that lil lucas oil display on the counter.. the eggbeaters thing...

look at the oil.. note the color...
spin the handles on each side, then look again.
the regular oil may only have a thin film on the metal, but it remained dark.
the lucas treated oil appears nice and thick, but whats this? its a lighter color? theres..... lil air bubbles in it... it was frothing up...
alot of additives effect the oils ability to not aerate..



you COULD pour additives into synthetic...but the reason"most of the people that I have talked to strongly are against it." SHOULD be because most of the people you talk to are strongly against all oil additives.

Endi5oo

Most of the people that I talk to like oil additives in good old fashion dyno, some of the time. But are completely against sythetic and would never think of putting additives in it if they did. I don't know. Most of the time I just use regular 10W-30 dyno, but lately I thought I'd try the blend. Rock the system a little and see how it does, but I don't believe that I would ever use full synthetic with my 91 firebird that has 164 thousand miles on it.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Professional racing teams use synthetic lubes almost exclusively these days. For a reason.

My Camaro has 163k on it. My Bonneville has 179k. The lowest mileage vehicle I have has 146k on it. All use full synthetic in the crankcase, ATF in the tranny, and gear lube in the rear (for the RWD's, anyway).

If you want the best performance and life out of your vehicle, you will use one of the good full synthetics. Valvoline, Quaker State, Castrol, Pennzoil are "me-too" synthetics - don't bother with them. AMSOIL, Mobil 1, Redline, and Royal Purple are worth using.

Professional racing teams don't use additives unless they are sponsored by one of the additive marketers. Even then, they've been known to tell the sponsor they are when in fact they aren't.

My first post on this board was an attempt to refute misinformation about synthetics, very similar to the misinformation in this thread. Sad how little has changed in 4 years.

Gumby

I need to change my headlight oil, should I switch to synthetic?

Bob is the oil guy

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

The Story With Additives

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm


How does an oil 'lose' some of its viscosity in a engine?

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/oilshear.htm

AlbertaFbody

oil is oil in my opinion and frankly back when i was in the drag racing scene in highschool i saw more chevy v8s have probs with synthetic then conventional motor oil.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

This got even more interesting than the usual dyno/synthetic debates, lol! You knew it would phess11!

But five7kid, don't go insulting my Valvoline. It still makes some of the best products on the market. Besides, the general population STILL has never heard of Amsoil, Royal Purple or Redline. It took the "me too" companies to bring synthetic oils to the forefront. And Valvoline has both, a synthetic blend(DuraBlend), and a full synthetic(SynPower).

And staying on the forefront, Valvoline's MaxLife is one of the best oil products to come along in decades. It WILL help reduce the oil burning and that "little puff of smoke." So I recommend MaxLife to phess11. If he wants 10W-40 or 20W-50, MaxLife comes in a dyno only, and it's an excellent product. But if he prefers 5W-30 or 10W-30, MaxLife is available in synthetic. With either, he won't go wrong.

Sorry for talking as if you're on the outside phess11, lol. This is your topic, afterall.

As for the blending issue that somehow evolved here, blending is perfectly fine. In fact, the pre-blended blends have such a small amount of synthetic, that if you want to get any real benefit from a blend, blending your own is the best way to do it. So phess11, if you continue to blend, you should probably use at least 2 qts of synthetic instead of one.

People can do just about anything they want with oil--blend synthetic and dyno, change from synthetic to dyno, change from dyno to synthetic, even change weights whenever they want to. None of that will hurt your engine. Just don't blend different weights.

Ok, this was fun. Next?

phess11

Whoops! Hey, I do have another question. My car sit all winter. I remember a long time ago people said that Synthetic would drain off the parts over time and you would get a "dry" start in the Spring. I assume this is not a problem anymore, or is it?

thanks, and sorry to pull the "Scab off this sore".

phil

MrDude_1

ALL oil, regardless of what base stock its made from, will eventually drain off after sitting several months.

thirdgen88

Its acceptable to blend different weights of the same brand (mixing 10w30 valvoline with 5w30 valvoline is okay).. You shouldn't blend different brands of oils (because of varying additive packages and base oils)...

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

Nah, while that would seem to make sense, blending different brands is also fine. No worries.

But phil, after sitting for a long time, your startup might be a bit rough. Get some fresh oil in it, either before or, at least, shortly after. I'd probably do both--but that's probably just me, lol.

But the day before you start it, put in a bottle of fuel system cleaner so it can sit in it overnight. Chevron Techron works very well. Your engine will start much easier and run much more smoothly when you finally fire it up.

Mine's occaissionally sat for long periods of time, non-op. So I learned that!

*Editted, even though it was funny, lol.*

phess11

thanks, LA. I do change it right after I start it. The fuel injector issues is not a problem for my 83, it is a carb. I do use Stabil in the gas tank though.

phil

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

LOL!

And I saw that too! I got to thinking about my own car, and I forgot yours was carbed, lol!

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

And phil, regarding your oil burning issue, in an older engine, burning 1 qt in 5,000 miles isn't uncommon. I'm not saying it's normal, just that you probably don't have any major problems.

But switching to one of the high-mileage oils should definitely help to reduce that. And as far as I know, Valvoline MaxLife is the only high-mileage oil that's also available in synthetic.

But you won't see any overnight miracles. The problem will reduce gradually over time, and it'll probably take a few oil changes before you notice much difference.

phess11

Here is my situation. I drive the car for about 3000 miles in the summer, then store for the winter (4-5 months). Right now I change the oil when I get it out of storage. If I use Mobil 1 can I go a couple years before I change?

phil

frogmanjohn

my 2cents,

89 camaro 305 TBI over 209,000 miles. Use valvoline max life 10w30. no leaks, no burning oil. I now run it in everything from my dirt bike to my wifes car even in my friends 86 chevy spectrum with 180,000 miles on her 90 cubic inch engine. yes 90 cubes. a monster huh. a VW is like 94.
Back to the point... I stand beside the valvolin Max life for reconditioning seals and help our high mileage engines live longer.

john

ede

i wouldn't go over 6 months on an oil change, however since you store it over the winter i'd just change the oil before i started driving it again.

MrDude_1

uhh, side note..

dont run automotive oil in the crankcase of your motorcycle.
(most)motorcycles have a wet clutch.. the clutch is in the oil... motorcycle oil is formulated for this and it lets the clutches grab... automotive oil will make the clutchs slip and burn themselves up.

Tom 400 CFI

The clutch on a motorcycle will function fine using automotive engine oil.

The reason why you don't want to use automotive engine oil in a motorcycle is that in a 4 stroke motorcycle engine, the crankcase and the gear box share the same oil. A gear box needs to have an oil with an Extreme Pressure (EP) additive. The tooth to tooth contact pressure of the gears is many times greater than say, the pressure between the piston and cylinder wall, or a rod bearing and a journal. Because of this, automotive engine oil will both:
1. fail at supplying sufficient metal to metal protection in short order on a gear box application BECAUSE.....
2. The oil will break down rapidly, because the ingredients in the oil's additive package will get "smashed" (by the extreme pressure between the gears meshing teeth) and become ineffective -the oil will break down at a very rapid rate.

Basically, you CAN use auto engine oil in a 4 stroke motorcycle engine, or in a two stroke's gear box, but you must change it nearly every ride (!) as it will break down so quickly, and then fail to provide addiquate protection.

A 4 stroke motorcycle engine oil is very much like an auto engine oil, BUT, with the EP addative to cope with the abuse the gearbox portion will give the oil. Hope this is clear and helpful.

-Tom

thirdgen88

Very informative!

MrDude_1

i dont really care HOW. but i KNOW it makes people burn up their clutch.
just letting the guy know before it happens... if anyone doesnt believe me, call the service department of your local motorcycle shop and ask them.

red90bird

as far as synthetics go, I didn't think it was thickness that was the issue, I thought people use synth because it lasts longer. correct me if I'm wrong but one of the things that kills oil (besides contamination) is heating up then cooling down. also I thought they can protect an engine up to more extreame tempatures. anyway thats my thoughts on the subject, what an interesting debate though

Tom 400 CFI

We ARE a (fleet) service shop, and we do service AVT's here. And we do run Automotive engine oil in them, and due to the lack of an EP addative, we change the oil about once a week. (a whopping 1.5 qt!). We do this as it's an easier/more fool proof SYSTEM of maintenance than stocking yet another type of oil that a mechanic can screw up and grab the wrong one.

We put thousands of hard, mountain use miles on these quads every summer, and have yet to see a clutch fail or slip due to the oil. Plus I follow the same pracrice with my own CR250, changing the oil every ride. No clutch slippage.

The use of automotive engine oil isn't detrimental to the clutch, unless the oil has broken down from the abuse of the gears, and THEN has cause the clutch to wear, THEN start slipping. This IS a possibility and if this is the case, I bet if you tear down your buddies bike motor, you find that the gears, the shift cassette, everything in there is severely worn. Them's the facts.

Red90bird, you're right, synthetics do last longer, don't break down as quickly, and are more able to tollerate higher temps, while still offering protection.

-Tom

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

PAO synthetic-based lubes will maintain a film longer than petroleum-based lubes.

Red Devil

Tom, as a side note, one other reason against auto oil is the friction modifiers that are added (according to Honda and a few affiliates). This also helps destroy the clutch. Some of the guys that flat track actually carry a few quarts of automotive oil in case any of the other racers 'need help'.
Fleet/diesel oil has all the additives we need and lacks the ones we don't want. Delvac seems to be in a dead heat with Rotella and the apparent favorite with regard to synthetic is Rotella T. Well, that's the v-4 Honda guys anyway.

PhilM

I won't take sides here, but my truck has 411,000 miles on the original engine, with nothing done to it, ever. all i have ever used is regular valvoline 10-30.

this is a good debate, I am considering synthetic in my new bracket motor, as I have heard from many that the engines with synthetic look new upon teardown at the end of the season.

black & gold

DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC IN A OLD SMALLBLOCK. I changed to synthetic in my 1992 chevy truck a year after I purchased it and it started leaking out of EVERYWHERE after 2 oil changes [ 3k between changes]. When I first changed several people told me they also had problems, so I changed back and the leaks stopped and never had a nother problem. You should change your oil every 3k or sooner if the car sits or does short trips. Now I am using the high mileage oils [they seem to be desinged for older cars in mind] my vehicles have noticably used less oil 4 cars all have over 100k some close to 200k on the road each one doing about 25k each a year [ not including the T/A ] . just my .02

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Synthetic doesn't "cause" leaks. A fresh engine that gets synthetic after break-in will leak less and use less oil than the same engine with petroleum-based oil over time.

My '86 LG4 was switched to synthetic with 123k miles on the ticker. The oil pan gasket seeped for the 1st oil change, then dried up. The valve stem seals were already gone, so they were changed along with the valve cover gaskets. The front & rear mains never did leak.

Typically, leakage when switching to synthetic is caused by the removal of the grunge that has built up during the use of petroleum oil. There's also the hardening of gaskets and seals caused by the petroleum oil. Real synthetics tend to swell gaskets and seals rather than harden them, so unless worn or cracked, over time leakage will be reduced by continuing to use the synthetic. Consumption sometimes goes up because of the aforementioned desolving of the petroleum deposits dirtying the oil - dirty oil doesn't seal the rings as well as clean oil does. Again, over time, that will be reduced.

The early Mobil 1 formula had a reputation for leakage and higher consumption - their current formulas seem to have improved along those lines. AMSOIL never has and doesn't now have those problems. I haven't heard any such reports on Redline or Royal Purple, so I don't know if there's any issue (must not be). I don't consider anything else a true "synthetic", in spite of their court victories.

"High mileage" oils are a cruel joke perpetuated on an gullible populace by Madison Avenue. These "additives" they boast about are all natural properties of a synthetic base engine oil. Additives take the place of lubricants in the formula - there's only 32 ounces of volume in a quart of oil: If you add something, you have to take something else out. Detergents and plastisizers don't lubricate, and zinc isn't going to make up the difference. If you hadn't been using their "meets warranty requirements - barely" products in the 1st place, you wouldn't have a problem that now needs "solving".

An engine that has 75,000 miles on it with a real synthetic will wear out sooner if it is then changed over to MaxLife.

Tom 400 CFI

What five7kid just said. That was a well written and accurate.

This is a mis-informed person spreading mis-information.

Red Devil

Bhahahahaha.

Yet another victim of mass marketing (thanks RB). I can't beleive this crap. How many miles on your engine? Was it always in the area (ie sea air)? Just because you had this happen with ONE motor (if at all) do you then think that it justifies the automatic association? If that's how it works, you must be a 19 year old italian drug dealer, yes?

Red Devil

Oh yea, if it sits and does short trips, in the environment you are in, I'd be changing it about every three to four months or every 3K mi, whichever comes first.