sixtymhz

I not the smartest when it comes to cars and so forth. I'm just good with the computers But I have a 91 blk camaro rs 3.1 V6 and im looking to up to a V8. I heard the process was costly and was a big hassle.

Can someone enlighten me on the hassle, if it really is costly, and what type of engine I could get?? In the subject I posted a listing in my head. Could someone tell me which is the best one, the least expensive, if I can use any, etc...

Thanks a bunch.

rezinn

LS1 is the best Thats what new camaros/corvettes have, very fast 330ish horsepower. LT1 came before LS1, not quite as good. I don't know all the differences, but I think the LS1 engine is mostly aluminum, while the LT1 has a cast iron block and aluminum heads. LT1 first came in the corvette in early 90s. Probably different stock induction as well.

This is an LS1 in a new camaro...
<img src=http://members.home.net/jcresn/ls1.jpg>

TBI and TPI are just intake systems that were used on third gen camaros. Newer ones have a different kind of injection. Tuned Port Injection(TPI) uses a fuel injector for each cylinder, while Throttle Body Injection(TBI) has only two fuel injectors that spray into, you guessed it, the throttle body. I think your car right now has TBI? TPI is probably what you want on a V8.

This is a TPI setup...
<img src=http://members.home.net/jcresn/engine.jpg>

Probably the most popular on this board is TPI, and relatively cheap. Do a search on EBay for "TPI" and you will get a bunch of hits. Yeah its gonna be costly and yeah its a big hassle, but what fun would it be if it wasn't? :P

Vader

60MHz,

Welcome aboard!

You'll find as many opinions about the engine that's "best" as there are members on the board. So let me begin by reminding you that anything I suggest is just an opinion.

The best engine you can get is the one you build yourself. The better engine is the one you build the next time, and so on. You can learn many things each time you build and run an engine. The basic designs of all the different factory engines all have their strengths and weaknesses. The TPI is a decent system for making torque and cna be made to produce good horsepower. It's weakness is the complexity of the fuel system and limitations of the factory design at higher RPM. The TBI is a very reliable and efficient system. Its weakness is the limits on torque and horsepower in factory trim adn the limited number of modifications it will tolerate. The LT1 is very efficient, powerful, and basically reliable. The down side of that is the complex control system, marginal distributor, and special cooling system, with all it's quirks. The LS1s are good for power and torque, have a very solid crank area design, and but also have more complex controls, limited aftermarket, limted bore/stroke possibilities, and don't have the trillions of miles of real world use and abuse to prove that the design is any better than the original SBC. In about five more years the LS1s may be more commonplace in the real world and the aftermarket may catch up to the demand for cranks, pistons, valve components, etc.

For your planned exchange, the 1987-1993 SBC V-8 would probably be the easiest and most reliable. The supply of necessary parts is plentiful and cheap. It has been done thousands of times and is well supported by documentation and experience. The engines and control system are very compatible, and it will be very easy to modify a V-8 to produce plenty of power once it is in the car.

Good luck.

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Later,
Vader
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"No matter how hard you try you can't stop us now..."
Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.0

snakeskinner

the TPI and TBI are going to be the best and easiest choices. LT1 and LS1 take fabrication and a lot more money to do since neither were ever installed in this car. I personally would opt for the TPI but I'm sure others will lean towards the TBI. the best thing you can do is find a complete car with that engine that you can strip of every possible part you may need. the tranny will need to be replaced too since the 3.1 uses a different bolt pattern for the transmission. You will need the complete engine with all the accessories, wiring, sensors, relays, mounts, transmission, crossmember, possibly driveshaft and torque arm and it wouldn't be a bad idea to get the radiator and fans (not sure if v8 is bigger than 3.1 or not. If the car is not available for you to return for additional parts, I would make sure and get everything on the first trip that might possibly be needed. This way you know everything will work. I would also take a camera with you and shoot a few rolls of anything you think you might not be able to remember. If this is your first swap, it can be tough but it is definitely doable. If you do opt for an LT1 or LS1, better get an open account and several months to do the swap because you'll be doing a lot of parts hunting. It would be one of those jobs where you work for 30 minutes and find out you need a certain part and then spend 3 days tracking it down to be able to proceed for another 30 minutes of working to find another part you needed. Not worth the trouble in my opinion unless you just want a unique car.

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Kyle Osterholt
Okarche, Oklahoma
ASE Master Certified
86 T/A 383 TPI
89 TTA #1002 T-top/Leather
89 TTA #1358 Hardtop/Leather
80 T/A Pace Car
73 Opel GT
73 bronco

The ODB

My vote is for the LS1,

they are the sh*t !

86TpiTransAm

TPI on a 383 or 400 are a combination made in heaven and it's fairly easy to come by a TPI setup!! (I'm swapping fom TPI to carb soon...wanna buy mine....LOL)

The best STOCK engine you could buy would be the LS1 by far!! Completely stock LS1 engine with headers will run 11's easy in the 1/4!! But it's new stuff and will likely be the hardest to find and most expensive!

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1986 Trans AM
305 TPI
200,000+ miles (speedo/odometer non-funtional! Odometer reads 142,000)
4 Wheel Discs
9 bolt Borg Warner Rear (2.73's....oh joy) :P
Completely Stock
Soon to upgrade to a 350 converted from TPI to Carb, Edelbrock 750CFM Carb, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake, Headman Shorty Headers, Some sort of ported heads (undecided), XE268 Cam, Moroso HEI ignition kit with external MSD Blaster II Coil and an MSD 6-AL Box!!
Current project: Keeping my 305 running until I get my income tax returns!

vortecfcar

a carburated 87-93(cars)95(trucks) would be the easiest swap that you could do. No computer gimiks to work out and trillions of parts that are cheap and easy to come by.

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91 RS W/carbed 350, Vortec heads, performer rpm, Comp cams Xtreme energy 224/230 duration and .477/.480 lift. BFG Drag radials. 3.42 posi,Corvette servoed 700r4, 3000 stallconverter. Edelbrock TES, 3inch cat, flowmaster with single 2.5 inch exit.
Best time yet to come
12's?? :crossthumbs:

burnoutrpm

ok tpi was good for well.... milage, low end gruntand thats about it! the lt1 is MUCH better and more higher rpm capable, but then theres the untouchable LS1 man the engine is just D A M N!!!! its efficent, great milage!,(try 28mpg!) and the power cant be beat!(literally!!!) but the ls1 is expensive and hard to come by and reqires a special tranny! not like just putting in a 700r4! nope have to have a ls1 tranny! the lt1 will hook up to a basic tranny and is becoming more avaliable! and it also gets great mpg. the tpi is just ok it gets ok mpg and decnt power(with lots of money and mods!) but the low end is awesome! the best bang for the buck is the tpi its very avliable, decent mpg,and maybe even hp! the cheapest swap is to carb but,... be warned it gets verying mpg(not great) but the simplicity and hp cant be touched!(well... the ls1 has something to say about that!) anyhow try to learn alot and get a tpi if fuel injection is your thing and carb it if not! oh yeah almost forgot AVOID TBI AT ALL COSTS!!!

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1989 firebird formula

Mods: converted from T.B.I. to a carburator 305 to a 350. Flowmater exhaust,hedman shortie hedders,202 160 (882) heads,.447/.447 lift 222@.050 duration speed pro 327/350hp cam 350 .40 over (356) edlebrock performer rpm intake and a 600 edlebrock manual choke (1405) Proform H.O. distributor slightly revised 700r-4

Future mods comp extreme energy roller cam, world products sportsman 2 heads, msd 6al ignition, billet distributor, blaster 2 coil and a 406 engine is in the works soon!!!!

[This message has been edited by burnoutrpm (edited February 25, 2001).]

sixtymhz

Would an LT1 or LS1 fit in a third gen camaro??

And could someone list all the mods that might have to be done?
Someone listed:
"You will need the complete engine with all the accessories, wiring, sensors, relays, mounts, transmission, crossmember, possibly driveshaft and torque arm and it wouldn't be a bad idea to get the radiator and fans...."
This is sounding to be at least $3,000 if not more.

And does anyone have any idea on the cost of these engines??


Vader:
Thank you for the welcome! Like I said, im not to smart when it comes to cars. I may have to take an auto class to learn more about engines, etc.... and start working on mine.

sixtymhz

BTW, I want my car to go fast
I drove my friends camaro who has a 94 LT1 and all that good stuff, and when I floored it, I bout wet my pants it was sooo fast. I think I want to represent the thirdgen now and beat some fourthgens Not to mention rustangs.

Black Beauty

ok...you said you dont know much about cars. That should be the first clue that LS1 and LT1 is OVER your head! Shoot...its over my head and i know a fair amount about cars. LT1 and LS1 would be a completely custom job requiring lots of fabrication. Yes they have both been done but by people who knew their stuff and had PLENTY of money. If money is no issue to you...get a professional to do the job for ya...and send me some too. If not...i would say....START READING, START SAVING AND START PLANNING. We also have a motor swap board here. the LS1 will be VERY expensive probably 5000 just for the motor. LT1 you can probably find in the range of 3000 and up. Standard TPI you can get used for cheap...under 1000. TBI...were talkin hundreds. or you can get a "built", depends on what you call "built", engine online and various other places...such as SDPC2000.com etc. Those'll cost ya bout 3000. Personally i think you should just start savin and readin...cuz theres lots of stuff you dont know your gettin into when your swappin engines. Good luck.

Rick

oh yeah you wanted to know good mods? check everyones signatures. (not mine )
(heads, cam, intake, exhaust (headers, cat, muffler) injectors or carb, chips, torque converters, gears, tires, suspension)
keep in mind that mods dont make HP, combinations of mods make HP. its all about the complete setup.

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Rick
90 Camaro RS 305 TBI
400 small block, Hooker 1 3/4 LTs, Random Tech Cat, Hooker aero chamber cat back on the way!!
TH700-R4 with Trans-Go shift kit (corvette servo here...but not installed yet)
MacEwen Motorsports White Gauge Overlays
14" K&N X-Stream Open Element
GTS Headlight and Taillight covers
5% Limo Tint all around
Classic White Chevy Bowtie sticker on rear window
http://www.geocities.com/esvalenz

Man if my camaro were a rice-rocket all those mods would give me what...easily 50-60 hp!!!

"Just because I've done it, doesn't mean I knew what I was doing!" - Me

sixtymhz

whats the diff between small block and big block?? 305 and 350?

Stell1579

small and big block refer to the difrent sizes of th emotors.

small block 283-302-305-327-334-350-383-400
big block 396-454-502

the 383 is a stroked 350 and the 334 is a stroked 305. the most common motors now are the 305 and 350. now the 302 327 and 283 were old chevy engines that they really donot make any more. the 396 was a big block with some nice power avail in the 68-73s or so now the 454 is a common big block avain in some trucks now. the 502 is a crate motor avail from chevy
i think that covers them all

also i think you should either try for a high preformance TBI (if your budget is #1)
or a TPI setup with a 350 (5.7L). the TPI parts are pretty mutch available not to expensive (check e-bay) and there is plenty of preformance products in the aftermarket

-Stell

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1988 IROC-Z 305TPI MINT!!
Mods= Accell SuperCoil, MSD 6A, Ported Plenum, No MAF Screans, K & N, SLP AirFoil,180 Thermostat+ Temp Switch, Relocated MAT, Cold Air. Soon to have Edelbrock TES Headers,MSD Ignition wires and a few other misc goodies

1988 Pontiac Trans Am. 305 TPI Beyond MINT Condition. Dynomax Catback

[This message has been edited by Stell1579 (edited February 26, 2001).]

sixtymhz

Well I got one more Q and then im done

goto this camaro site:
http://www.geocities.com/norine.geo/Drivetrain.html

how is he pulling over 400hp with a 350 ci engine?(what is CI by the way??)

JETHROIROC

CI = Cubic Inches = Engine Displacement. Many people have 400+HP 350's. I'd say by the time you got done fitting a new LS1 under the hood of a thirdgen you'd have over $10,000 in it. Make this my vote for TPI.

JETHROIROC

CI also = Compression Ignition = diesel .

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

TPI.

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Looking For:

87 IROC-Z 350 TPI
84 TRANS AM 305 H.O.

sixtymhz

so this guys has a 350 TPI? Or its is a 350 "CI"?

Would that but a little costly when trying to drive around if it was diesel? :P

FastBroker

If you look around you can find GM leftover BRAND NEW LT1's for about $2200 without harness and sensors but with ECU. That's not bad... Still need harness, accessories, etc but not bad for streetlegal turnkey 300+hp.

Enkil

The guy has a 350 cubic inch tuned port injection engine. The CI and TPI are talking about different things.



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89 iroc-z 305 tbi
k&n filtercharger, open element air filter. nuffin' else

JETHROIROC

Right on .

sixtymhz

Enkil, forgive me for being really plain on this subject. But if he has a 350 TPI engine, shouldnt he have 350 hp?? How or what did he do to get over 400+hp?

JETHROIROC

The displacement of an engine is only one factor in the amount of horsepower it produces. For example, a certain 3.0L V-6 can produce 300 horsepower but it is only 183 cubic inches. By contrast, a certain 5.7L V-8 (350 cubic inches) may only produce 230 horsepower or so. In general, larger displacement engines are capable of more torque production than smaller ones, but they may not be optimized to do so. The 3.0L engine in our example may have twin turbochargers, good cylinder heads and a well-balanced induction system and the proper tuning. By contrast, the 5.7L engine in our example may have a restricted intake, poor cylinder heads, and a weak exhaust, therefore its power output is not maximized. Again, engine displacement is only one factor in power production. Consider it as a measure of the engine's potential. A stock 350 TPI engine never had 350 horsepower. However, it is by no means impossible to modify it to produce that much power or more. Hope this helps.

dans82bird

Enkil,

That dude with the red camaro has a Carb, not TPI... Holley 750 to be exact.

60mhz,

350ci is how big the internal engine displacement is, and that 350 cubic inches is putting out 400+ HP ... get it now? oh yeah btw, since no one said it yet.... go with a carb, it will be the easiest to do, no stupid computers to mess with

my $0.02

sixtymhz

I thought computers were better to have since you could set the computers to do different things and use the to your advantage. One of my friends is going to have a touch screen in his car to set his computer to do what he wants. I dunno, im cleared up on the engine thing but I thought a computer was for the best, considering they controled everything.

Alan84TA

IMO if you just want a v8 and aren't going to really build it up much, do yourself a favor and sell the car and buy one with a v8 already in it.

snakeskinner

I'll have to agree with Alan on that last comment. In 90% of the cases, it's cheaper to switch cars than try to do a swap unless you're just really attatched to the car. Not only will it cost you more, the car will be worth less if you decide to resell because it's still a v6 car at heart, no matter what you've done to it. I can imagine you're probably totally confused as to what to do from the varying opinions on this post. I suggest finding someone who is going to perform this job and then talk with them as to what to do. Otherwise, you may end up all ready to do a swap and no one to help you.

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Kyle Osterholt
Okarche, Oklahoma
ASE Master Certified
86 T/A 383 TPI
89 TTA #1002 T-top/Leather
89 TTA #1358 Hardtop/Leather
80 T/A Pace Car
73 Opel GT
73 bronco

sixtymhz

I have been thinking about selling my car and buying a car that was a 350 but I have a black one, etc... and I have done personal mods to the car, etc... and I dont feel like having to redue those. Not to mention with knowing the car is a v6 and the insurance not knowing it is a v8 helps a lot remember, I am still a teenager The cost facter is not that bad. Honestly, I had someone wanting to buy my car for $5000. And the car just hit 100k. Its in wonderful condition and has had a lot replaced on it and is in wonderful running facter.

Maybe it might be worth buying a car already like that. But honestly, what would the fun in that be?? I want to learn this stuff as I go along and to say I went from a v6 to a v8 etc.... would be a better gut feeling than "I sold my car, bout the same one just so I could go faster." I dunno My opinion hasn't changed and quiet frankly, im glad everyone through 100 opinions at me. Its great to know the paths I can go forth. Oh, not to mention, I feel I want the worst of the camaros (not saying mine is) But its a 3.1 v6 91 blk camaro RS. People who have these could look up to mine, etc....

anyways, tempation island is back on, gonna wrap up.

thx