I thought I would let you guys know that I took my top end off, new heads and intake ect, so I had a clear look at the lifters and stuff. (still going strong) there is no sighns of wear, miss alignment ect. I was looking at the retrofit lifters again and decided why? my setup has been doing good for years . so I ordered my new push rods (longer due to the new heads) this time I used trick flow (cheap and are desighned for what I want)

 

Ok guys, i am going to do this mod on my 355 CI pre 87 block.
Here is what i have found out so far-

The Factory Hydraulic lifter is 2.00" in total Length, .842 diameter, and weight is 100 Grams.

The 60 degree V6 roller lifter is 2.100" in body length, PLUS the ROLLER, same .842 diameter, i didn't have my tripple beam with me at the dealer to weight them. Part number from GM is 17120070. They are $26.97 List at the dealer.

The body of the stock non-roller hydraulic lifter and the 60 degree V6 roller lifter are almost identical when put side by side, except for the addition of the roller and .100" more in height.

The factory V8 roller lifter is 2.48" in body length PLUS the ROLLER, same .842 diameter, and weight is 129 grams.

I am sure that aftermarker roller lifters are heavier as there is more to the body than even the factory roller lifter, not to mention the bars that attach the lifter pairs together.

Would you want to put 30 gram heavier pistons in your engine?

I already have the Spider and Dogbones.

I need to find where i can get a deal on the 60 degree V6 lifters part number 17120070.

Also any tech help would be great, i tried to find the guy on ebay that sells the PDF file, but can't find him?

I don't want to grind through my block!

Great thread, and great web site.

Thanks, Dave
drb930@netzero.net

 

When I did it, I bought the parts P+G Partzone. This is what I paid:


10456413 GEAR,DIST x 1 $21.90
17120070 LIFTER 16 x $12.56 = $200.93
12550002 GUIDE 8 x $2.50 = $19.96
14101116 RETAINER 1 x $8.42

Grand Total: $251.21

 

For those of you guys Brave enough or Crazy enough here's what i did.
I bought a cam from LPE and they only sell a cam with the snout set up for a factory roller block.
Not being a big fan of the "Cam Buttons" i decided to take it to the next level and use the Factory Cam Thrust Plate which i spent $8.00 and about another $5.00 in hardware consisting of hardened allen studs and hardened steel self locking nuts and some barrel nuts, and of course Locktite Red.
The studs need to extend no more than .300 of an inch after you get the studs mounted and the barrel nuts so that everything is level with the block where the cam plate sits against must be perfectly flat.
I drilled through the block to mount the studs into the water jacket.
The general idea was to have the studs lock tighted to the block and the barrel nuts double lock the studs and provide the surface for the cam thrust plate to set against.
Pictures enclosed.

 

Still no pics???

Did you complete it?

I have a block that I wanted to try the same thing on. V6 lifters and all.
Some of the guys say it's crazy to do it that way, but like you said, "For those of you brave or crazy enough"
Anyhow, I have all the parts except for the pushrods. What did you do about that?
Thanks

 

i sent you a message, the pictures were too big for the server.
My e-mail is drb930@netzero.net
Send me an e-mail and i will send you the pictures.

Dave

 

Finally shrunk the pictures!

 

I made an adjustable pushrod to determine the length, then ordered a set at that length. Most good suppliers will sell them in 0.050" increments.

 

Haven't gotten that far yet, just now starting to put the engine back together.
It will depend on cam lift and rocker ratio.
I am running a .525 lift cam with 1.6 ratio rockers for a total of 560 lift.
Will let you know what length i end up with when i get there.
Dave

 

On post #81 on the 2nd page of this thread I mentioned a part that I found.
It's a factory part. A composite "dogbone substitute" that is useful for this swap. It allows a bit more clearance around the lifter bore tops, making clearancing a bit simpler and less hazardous, due to the reduced likelyhood of hitting water when grinding the block. A problem that one guy had here when he tried this mod.
Anyone else looked at this part?

Edit:
Heck, I'll just re post the link

http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...514&pid=210398

 

I was totally wondering about THAT! I know they are thinner than the dogbone links that required clearance, so I thought maybe they would resolve the whole "needing the clearance" problem. I am pretty sure the width of the flats on the V6 lifters is the same. I believe this because I think the dogbones from V6 to V8 are the same. Also its not like these plastic guides/dogbones wouldnt work. they are what is currently used on ALL the LSx motors! I believe they are what all the roller crate motors use too!

 

Yeah, I got some. They're dirt cheap, like $21 for the set when I bought em.
They're thin and not only do they make it possible to leave more iron in a critical area, they save a lot of labor. I think they're pretty much the solution to one of the biggest problems of the whole swap.
I can't remember if I had to order 2 sets, or if it was $21 inc shipping but for some reason $21 sticks in my mind.

 

well yor link that you posted from SDPC for GM Part # 88958652 says they are $12.49 and that the part number "Services one cylinder head" which I would assume means you would need two. Even with a price increase that is still only $24.98 + shipping for the two you would need to have one for each side. That is incredibly cheap. That leaves just the spider tray, pushrods, and lifters.

If someone completes this please post to let us know how it works on something like a hot cam, etc?

 

I didn't get mine running, but I did a mock assembly using an L98 cam and everything looked right. All the clearances were as they should be. I'd have to say that anywhere dogbones can be used, these parts could be substituted.
Also, there are some thick strips of plastic that connect the thing into a single row, and it's possible that the spider could be eliminated too, by drilling the block for some studs and bolting it down. But it is originally designed to fit with the spider tray setup.
I'd have to say don't hesitate to get this part, even if you have a roller block.
The concept is battlefield tested on LSx engines and some HP LT1s.
I wanted to get my hands on some before they're discontinued, or need to be backordered.

 

Anymore updates on the lifter guide # 88958652 being used on pre 1986 non roller blocks?

Here's a pic from pace performance



notice how the spider is not bolted down and has no holes for bolts. what application is that spider from? here's another pic I got from somewhere. It shows the lifter guide upside down. GM partsdirect says "This composite lifter guide is the same as used on LS Series GM small-blocks, but with mounting holes for use on Gen 1 GM small-blocks." So am I correct in assuming these guides bolt to the spider and then do not require bolting to the block? No drilling into the oil gallery on pre 86 blocks? That just leaves clearancing the sides of the lifter valley. How much clearancing is neccessary? Anyone been there, done that on a pre 86 block? Any pics?

 

Why would you want to run an Plastic part when you can use the factory metal parts?
Drilling the holes to mount the studs for the spider is really no big deal.

Davd

 

I don't know what picture you're looking at, but I see a stock spider with bolts holding it down.

 

You're right. I had to zoom in before I could see them. At my resolution setting it looked solid there. I'm not too enthusiastic about drilling into the gallery but I wouldn't rule it out.

 

Because that is the part that replaces the metal part. It IS the factory part, its even what is used in LS1 motors now.

 

I guess I'll bring this thread back from the dead. Is anyone using this successfully since some time has passed?

 

Hi,
How is this holding up for you? I am trying to do the same thing. I have a LPE/Accel factory roller cam I am trying to use in a non roller block.
Thanks

 

Seems to be working fine so far.
Please remember to shorten the dowel pin on that LPE Camshaft if you intend to run a steel timing cover.
If you don't it will hit the cover and you will have to shorten it after it is all put together like i had to do.

Dave

 

I am in the process of doing this conversion right now. I posted a bit in another thread, but now this one is more current.
I have the plastic pieces that replace the dog bones, they cost 30 bucks for the pair after shipping from Scoggin Dickey. This engine will however get metal dog bones, its not mine and the owner wants metal rather than plastic. I'll save the plastic's for my 406 later.
The plastic links do require less block grinding than the metal dogbones. I have this block currently fitting both types. You can save A LOT of block grinding by taking most of it from the dogbones. The amount of metal removed from the block gives me absolutely no concern. I used a dremel with several different bits, and a little from a die grinder, but the whole thing can be done with the dremel.
I can clearly see how easy it would be for somebody to get carried away and go too far, so check frequently for minimum clearance.
I still havent got to the cam retainer plate yet but I'm going to do it similar to DRB930. The biggest difference in the way that I'm doing it is that I'm holding the spider down with metal tabs that push down from the heads. No need to drill in the valley.

 

FWIW, mine is still running nicely after 5 years.....

 

Right on Ben.

I have been delayed a couple of months on the conversion I am doing. Its all on the engine stand in my garage right now, ready to get finished.
I'll be ordering a singleplane EFI manifold for this engine in a couple of days and when it gets here I'll probably finish fitting the dogbones and spider so I can get it all closed up.
Unfortunatly the 54 chevy pickup that is going into wont be ready for it untill late in the fall this year. I'll still be sure to keep this forum posted on the results.

Marvin

 

I used to like this idea.

But the more I think about it, Guido is right. It's a hack. There is no guarantee that the machining (even simple grinding + drilling) will be successful on every block. I can't justify ruining a 400 block on this.

I think when folks started doing this mod, it was cost effective.

If I normally build a 87+ roller block, I'd use comp 850 lifters which are about $200.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-850-16/

However, to do a retrofit I would select Howards link bar for $299

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRS-91164/


So the price difference is $100, and no risk of destroying the block.



-- Joe

 

Same here.

 

I clicked on that link to the howards lifters. It says in the summit ad that they have "horizontal" link bars. The picture shows a vertical link setup.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRS-91164/

Update:
Looks like summit changed the picture on the website,they now show the proper howards/lunati/morel lifter picture. and the description now says "vertical" link bar.