also the 2.2 in the S-series is the same as the cavaliers right? cause around here about 20% of the cars in junkyards are cavaliers/sunfires. and some saturns have the 2.2 too correct?

 

Im sure some would have, but not the 36 that I picked up.
I still got em all for free, i took 16 for myself and I sold the remining lifters for more than i paid for all 36....
Ill be doing the actual "retro fit" tommarow. Im still deciding whether to tap the drainback holes or to drill/tap the cam journal like the above picture. I think the drainback holes would be a safer bet, but require more thought progress... my head hurts..

 

With this mod, standard, or extra long, pushrods?
Contact

 

Slightly SHORTER actually. the V6 lifters, although shorter than the V8 roller lifters, are TALLER than the standard flat tappet lifters by about .3-.4" If i remember right.

I will be re-using my old pushrods though, simply because they were a little too short to begin with.

and Just an update, Today I finished the "retro fit" part of this swap. Clearanced block for dog bones, and drilled/tapped for spider tray.

Turns out, I never even drilled through the oil galley in the center of the block. I only tapped about .25" down, then cut the end off of a TAP, and threaded it in. then I ran a nut down on a stud, and bolted the stud into the block using the nut to tighten it very LIGHTLY. to finish it and make sure it never moved, I used a Nickel99 Cast rod to TACK weld the nut to the block, with a pre-heat using an Oxy/Acd torch. came out... perfectly. have pics tommarow...

 

Im moving this thread to another forum. Im sick of seeing this garbage posted. I cant believe how many of you people are doing this. I wont lock this because people will actually do this and be happy with it. I wouldnt be.

 

Now this question has some merit to it, particularly if you need to use a small base circle cam.

 

it wont give you .400 of an inch unless it is ground on a .100-.200 base circle (impossible)

 

THIS IS WHY YOU NEVER DO THIS!

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=242070

 

So your basing your opinion of the roller conversion by your dislike of Kingtal0n's 'projects'?

 

Where did I ever mention ANYTHING about his project?

 

Your above post.

So your basing you opinion on one persons disaster and discounting others that have made it work.

Would it then be safe to label your turbo installation as a 'hack job' because we all have seen some real turbo disasters? I think not.

 

I wasnt referring to his project in general. I was referring to the lifter fit project as a HACK JOB and then using JB Weld as a fixit as a HACK JOB. Which both are.

No where did I mention anything about his overall goals, his past projects or future projects as hackjobs. Just this lifter thing. Thats all Im against.

 

there is one type of motor id do this to.... a "clamier" racer motor... because frankly, if it blows up after 5 miles, it doesnt matter.. the race is only a mile and a half long(6 rounds), if that.

would i do this to my street motor? no.. but then again, i buy slightly used roller lifters (link bar style) for around $100-150 and dont bother messing with anything else.


so while i dont agree with it for the application, its fair game to talk about it.


Guido, i think you made your point and expressed your opinion on the subject quite clearly.... just do the other people in this thread a favor and not clutter it with needless bickering.

 

Dontcha think that's a bit antagonistic? I think we have what's called a PM on here. Most of his last posts were responses, and I seem to recall that he was a tad bit instigated no?

But far be it from me to weigh in on the subject of language, rather let me ask this... If you were trying to make a point in a thread, would you not post more than once? I know I have. And a hell of a lot more than just twice at times.

On another note, I am the last person who would bitch about someone calling someone else out, but you have to remember that the mods have a life too and making this NON-paying job harder on them certainly does not getyou any brownie points. Beleive it or not, thay do answer their PMs, and you will most likely get a heck of a better reaction and response.

 

im not a mod here, but i am on other boards.

mods are people too.
they just have a extra button or two on their screen.
i dont see how it makes his job of modding a forum any harder...
i just asked him if he would take it back a step... its not like this is a newbie thing anyway.
he made his point, and stated his opinion.. several times.. i think everyone who is making this mod already knows... theres a good chance to screw up and foobar the block.

could i have done a PM.. yea i suppose... but i just clicked reply and talked... mainly because im open enough to have this disussion with anyone.. heck if dirk was posting stuff and i wanted him to backoff, from cluttering the thread (like this post is doing now) then id ask him to.
the only reason this reply is here is so anyone else reading can see it too.. if you dont like my responce PM me.

 

Touche! But you're not a mod so I get to play in the playground. But the thing is it is customary to take up a beef with the mods PM. Especially with antagonistic comments. You must admit that there is a difference between '...take a step back...' '...cool it a bit...' and '... do everyone else a favor and...'. The latter is generally used in a derogatory type of way.
And yes, this whole thread has turned to clutter. Time to lock this SOB.

 

My misunderstanding then. The intent of my posts aren't to flame or to start a flame war but to educate and to learn.

Now back to the subject. I was skeptical too. I cut up and machined two junk blocks, one a late model roller block and one a early model non roller block. All to confirm or reject the feasability of the conversion. This wasn't one of those 'what do I want to do today?' project. A lot of time was spent measuring, consulting mechanics, engine builders and other machinists before a good block was ever touched.

My 400 sbc test engine spent hours on an engine run stand. During that time the intake was removed and valve train components removed and inspected for problems potential problems or issues.

On a side note this 509 casting 400 sbc is equipped with Trick Flow heads, Crane roller rockers, Crane Hyd roller cam, Scat connecting rods etc.

Why did I do the conversion? Because I could! Is it for everyone? Not hardly! Although the conversion didn't end up particularly difficult I wouldn't recommend it to anyone without a good mechanical back ground.

 

Just so everyone knows I think Guido is right about some aspects, cutting up the block isnt a great idea to begin with. But in response to his "hack job" position, I think that there are other ways to do this retro-fit without cutting up the block, or whatever. For instance what If i just clearanced the dog-bones to clear the water jackets, instead of grinding on the block? then all thats left is how to mount the spider. that certainly was no hack job, the holes in the oil galley never broke through, and all went as I planned it to. Even the pinhole I created in the water jacket finnaly welded up just fine, I wound up removeing the JB weld and using a much larger rod and a bigger welder to get some real penetration, and it worked out just fine. NO the rotating assembly was NOT in the motor when I did it, but the motor was in the car so i could test fit turbo manifolds while I did the retro-fit at the same time.

And i saved $500 in retro fit roller lifters. This WHOLE PROJECT including retro-fit roller cam, and Twin Turbos is costing me less than $1000, why should I spend half of that on lifters? It makes no sense to me, not for a car worth less than $3000 to begin with. Who cares if the motor gets junked? Its just a crappy 4-bolt truck block from 70'something. I can have it ripped apart and rebuilt into a new block in 4-5 days if it fails. And just for reference, If i was going to spend $500 on lifters, i would rather spend $500 on a nice machined clean roller block instead, and just bolt my stuff into it. spending $500 on the lifters just makes NO sense whatsoever.

 

lifters arnt $500..

edit:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...479702453&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...479702768&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...479358445&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...479209706&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...479930338&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...479930788&rd=1



first few on a quick ebay search.... athough ebay isnt the cheap way to go.... too many people on there now, bidding stuff up..

 

Compare apples to apples. The lifters you listed are solid roller lifters. The hyd retro roller lifters are $419 through Summit when you can find them in stock.

 

What he said. Beleive me, I would not have cut and gut my block to save $150-$200.

 

Im curious now, now that its in and running and together... Has anyone else got their motors running with these V6 lifters?

If so, what sort of preload are you running, and did you do it with the engine running or not, cold or hot, etc..

and have you had a WOT blast yet? I have. I think the lifters are holding my valves open, I put a 1/4 turn on them with the motor OFF... and Im having problems with it during WOT. just curious if anyone else has these... "problems"?

 

...

 

I wanted to bring this thread back to life. I got a non-roller bare 350 (#14088548). Im gonna get it machined next week so I can start rebuildin it, and Ive been lookin into the retrofit rollers. I already got a 305 TBI in the camaro now, and from what ive been readin, i can take the lifters, pushrods, spider tray, and lifter guides, then drill and tap the holes for the spider tray, and be done with it. Am I wrong? I cud save some money if it wud work, I just wanted to make sure it cud work properly without an extensive amount of machine work, and involes nothing more than a drilling and tapping a few holes, and clearencing the dogbones. A few hours of searches, and all ive come up with are a few endless posts which usually consist of arguing

 

well if you read this post then you should see it is done with V6 lifters

 

...

 

yes, ive heard it can be done also with v6 lifters, but Im tryin to find out if 305 tbi roller hydro's will work as well. Aint no reason for me to get new lifters out of a v6 when i can just yank out the ones in my 305.

also: ive never pulled my valve covers off (havent had the car that long), are the rockers on the 305 tbi's roller, or stamped? if roller, i cud probably use them as well right?

 

...

 

how do you overcome the block lifter boss height differences using the V8 lifters?

 

...

 

I bought a set of these
http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...514&pid=210398
to use with my hyd roller setup.
I think it would be useful with either a factory roller or a 3.1l retrofit.
It's not as bulky as the dogbones so in a retrofit application there would be less grinding nessecary to make it fit.
Haven't tried it out yet

I'm not sure what you mean about the shims and washers part, anesthes??
The lifter bore height difference is the whole reason for getting the shorter 3.1 V6 lifters to begin with.

 

yeah thats why I thought they did it as well

 

Actually, if you do a mock assembly using a std base circle cam, in a non roller block, with a factory lifter. You'll see the oil channel in the lifter extends past the top of the lifter bores.
That's one reason you can't use a V8 lifter in a V8 non roller block.

 

I've read through this a couple of times, and I think the guys freakin' brilliant. Even the turbo guy.
It could work..... and *** bless him for figuring it out on his own instead of buying everything. Reminds me of the good old days, and JB Weld, now there's a group of people who should've won a Nobel prize.

 

hah! Well thanks for the support, funny how I still keep up with this post just to see what the lastest is. I sold the turbo setup to someone on rhode island who is now making 650RWHP or so, on my old base-map tune, and the block with the V6 roller "retro fit" is somewhere in the local scrapyard. I am ready to sell the camaro and 383 blower motor as well, probably this month. just tired of opening the hood at every stoplight.
My new car (240SX) went 12.9 @ 107 last week at the track, stock motor stock turbo. yea, its a 4-banger, but hey... reliable and quick... You wouldnt beleive the quality of knowledge most of the JDM / DSM "tuners" lack, its like a rumor starts and since no one knows any better suddenly its a well known fact. I come along and start pulling things apart... I find all sorts of misinformation floating around. I want to stick a procharged 383 under the hood though

Basically, i was spoiled with thirdgen.org. we have it easy here, most of the important stuff is already error-tested for you. and heres another example of some things error tested: V6-Lifters should stay in V6 engines. JB-weld will NOT seal a hole in the lifter valley very well. Trying to save $500 can cost you a motor. and lastly, turbos are cool

you can see the last running video of my twin turbo camaro. This motor is running in the videos with THREE SPUN MAIN bearings. I pulled it apart right after the video was taken, and the bearing were so baddly spun the metal around the main caps was pushed almost 1/8" outside the caps. block was literally trash.
http://www.s94759759.onlinehome.us/ttpics/ttvid.wmv

 

thanks for giving us the dope on the V6 lifters

 

Well, just about any national import board, or any forum for that matter, is like that. Im a member of Georgia DSM (I got a 92 Eclipse), and the guys on there are verrrrry knowledgable and know what they are talkin about. If you got a problem, they dont say "hey, figure it out". theyll help u understand what exactly ur doin, or hell even come out to ur hosue to help u out. But ya, for the most part, rumors do sometimes turn into cold hard facts, thats actually nothing more than a theory.

I try and stay away from national forums (except this one of course) jsut for the fact that people say stupid **** and have no info to back it up. Find some local JDM/DSM boards in your area, cant go wrong!

LONG LIVE GA-DSM!!!!!

 

Another thing worth mentioning. As far as retro fittin solid rollers, any brands or nething worth looking into? I found some on summit, .842 lifter bore, Comp Cams super roller lifters. $32/ a lifter though!! and it aint even hydro. I dont see any solid rollers on jegs.

But anyways, on the summit lifters, it says "Not for use with OE hydraulic roller cam and lifter engines". meaning-----? you cant use with factory roller cams or as in it shudnt be used in a factory roller block?

Im leanin more towards solid roller setups now, just so I can put valve float out of my head.

 

not for use with factory roller blocks mean that they are "retro-fit"

 

when i did my 406 engine i bought a used solid roller cam off of ebay i think it was an isky and i picked a set of comps solid roller lifters for a measley 200 and since they were roller there was diddly for wear.

Just another option

 

I'm interested to know what KA24DE came with a stock turbo, in America? Sounds more or less like you got a beefed up SR20DET swapped in there. NX/SE-R guys run high 12s low 13s with a SR20DET swap, and they are 400lbs lighter than a 240.

Not bashing or anything, I'm just quite curious as to how a stock 240sx can be faster than a t/t'd Skyline.

 

yes, I did it years ago never had a problem but, I also did it with no knowledge of any one else doing it. all my parts were free and I have a sbc 400 and the roller cam from my 350 setup (that's why I did it) I have old posts with the push rod part numbers. when you are done it is just like the factory 305 and 350 roller blocks

 

I have a 1992 240SX Lowest base model you can get.

Under the hood as of 3 weeks ago is an S13 1998 Type "x" J4 ECU SR20DET Blacktop non-VTC motor. On the factory turbo I push .99Bar (14.6 PSI) And make 262RWHP (more now with 264 Step1 HKS cams), Car weighs 2510 without me in it, the SR weighs 120 Lbs less than the Ka24DE, and the auto KA tranny I removed was 15Lbs heavier than the 5-speed SR I swapped in. I still have the factory hubcap steel wheels, really throws people a curve. Other than the cams now, my SR20 is stock. Although its gettin a GT2871R Turbo next month, 740CC injectors (70~Lb) Power FC tune, Z32 maf, should make close to 400RWHP (yes rear wheel drive people) and put me deep into the 11's with my ****ty driving skills. That 12.9 was with a 2.48 60' time.

This week we are putting an RB25DET Into my newest project car, an S14 1995 240SX.

 

In the interest of maintaining something resembling a technical discussion that may pertain to some f-body:

1 bar = 14.50377psi
.99 bar = 14.35873psi

But of course, since you’re driving **** now actual facts probably don’t matter anymore…

 

I can't believe this is still kicking around.
I'll bite then, why the hell is everyone drilling and tapping all the way through? Why not dill part way, tap to depth, and then throw on a stud and threaded stub and weld the thing to the block? No intrusion.
Hell you could bust through and still not worry if you weld well.
Just a question from the Captain.

 

Oh I tried that too. But welding to an oil inpregnated block is almost impossible, not to mention the metal is so thin in certain places (ahem) and the fact heating it that hot (it is cast iron after all) will cause cracks in un-likelly places (ahem cough)

its just a BAD idea. I dont recommend it to anyone. Seriouselly, its the reason I am driving a 4-cylinder instead of my twin turbo camaro.

 

Don't get me started on JB Weld again!

IIRC welding cast iron is a tad invloved, like preheating and controlled cool down, as well as dealing with the carbon content. That's why I was suggesting putting in a stud so you have some metal to play with. Maybe ede or 83 will explain that better, I don't think I can do it well presently.

Also, you were trying to strait fill which was a problem to begin with. And wasn't that at the back of the block too?

 

Someone just referred me to this post, and hey presto, there's a pic of my 383 in the 5th posting!!!
For anyone considering doing this, I have about 3000 hard miles on this engine now with no issues. That 3000 miles includes about 20 dragstrip passes also.
I have had the manifold off once for an inspection, and all is well.
In the next 3 weeks I wil be doing a cam swap also, but i don't expect to find any problems, car ran its best 1/4mile to date just last week (12.8 secs at 3000ft = 12.44 corrected to sealevel)
Ben.

 

Well I think some people are missing the point. There is no doubt that this mod will work, it has been proven without a doubt to work already.

The point is, that there is a chance it WONT work. As in, you ruin / waste your motor because of it. For me, it didnt work. I mean, it worked as in the motor RAN, but it didnt "work" because I had oiling issues, a crack in the block, and JB weld in places it shouldnt be because of this mod.

The real question is, is it worth the $300-$400 you save to possibly ruin a $2000-$8000 motor in the process? I think thats what some people (at least I) are trying to say.

 

Whether it should be done or shouldn't could be debated all day long.
Anyone following this post will be aware that there are risks by now, and hopefully know to be extra careful.
Using this part, can reduce the risk of grinding through in the lifter valley.
http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...514&pid=210398
It's too bad your engine ended up being the example of what happens when you grind too far, KingtalOn... Not trying to be rude or anything like that. And I'm glad that your turbo was successful too.
I think that when precautions are taken, and if a builder is aware of the potential risks, it isn't a bad choice.
Personally, I'm glad to see some testimonials on that retrofit, both positive and negative.
I think that a good strategy for the 3.1l lifter retrofit would be to do the grinding, before getting any other machine work done.