Black Beauty

ok....i change my oil right? few months later i check the dipstick...not a drop on there. then i change the oil....and a whole **** load comes out the pan. whats the deal...is that "dirty" oil not recycled in to the engine or what? o yeah...this is with mobil 1 10w-30. car has 95--- miles on it. am i just not checkin it right? am i burning...or do i just need to add a little. mobil 1 says to change the oil every 25000 miles with a filter change at 7....???? a bit excessive??? please help. thanks guys

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Rick
90 Camaro RS 305 TBI
400 small block, Hooker 1 3/4 LTs, Random Tech Cat, Hooker aero chamber cat back on the way!!
TH700-R4 with Trans-Go shift kit (corvette servo here...but not installed yet)
MacEwen Motorsports White Gauge Overlays
14" K&N X-Stream Open Element
GTS Headlight and Taillight covers
5% Limo Tint all around
Classic White Chevy Bowtie sticker on rear window
http://www.geocities.com/esvalenz

Man if my camaro were a rice-rocket all those mods would give me what...easily 50-60 hp!!!

"Just because I've done it, doesn't mean I knew what I was doing!" - Me

Black Beauty

oh yeah and thats with the oil gauge at 50 or so.

Vader

BB,

Check the level immediately after the oil is changed to make sure the dipstick is correct. Other than that, I haven't a clue.

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Later,
Vader
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"I'm gonna talk about some freaky sheet now..."
Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.0
KaleCo Auto Parts

jrr

I wouldn't keep ANY motor oil in for more than 3500 miles. The reason that Mobil 1 can, ON PAPER, stay in for 25,000 miles is that it is chemically stable for a much longer period than regular oil. It doesn't oxidize like regular oil does. Regular oil contains oil created from the catalytic cracking process. Oil molecules that were refined via cracking have incomplete structures and will bond to oxygen molecules quite readily. The additives also deteriorate as well.

But BOTH mineral AND synthetic oils collect dirt the same way! THAT is why you change the oil! To remove the soot, ash, and other funk that accumulates in the oil. Only PROPANE- and NATURAL GAS-burning engines can use Mobil 1 for the full 25,000 miles with only the periodic oil filter change.

Black Beauty

hmm okay. that is the first and im sure last time i will hear vader say such a thing. everyone, quick come look. thanks anyways vader dood. thanks jrr. i guess ill be changin the oil this weekend.

Black Beauty

any way to tell if oil is clean or dirty? if it IS clean...can i leave it longer than 3500....safely...and then change it when its dirty?

stingerssx

Mobil is going by perfect driving conditions, which include driving for no less than 15 miles atleast every time you crank your engine over. There are many more execive rules to go by, but just forget them. If you want, you can change your oil at 7000, but If it is clean, go ahead and keep it in for longer.

To find out if your engine oil is clean, well,... it's not. But clean enough to stay in? if you can see through it, it can stay in. Ofcourse it will be black, but if it's a little transparent, then it's ok. Also, open your filter and see if there are many particles in there. You could go to any GM dealership and pay up the a$$ for the engine cleaning and oil change, and it will be alot cleaner.

Also, If your dip stick doesn't have any oil on it, then that means that you're two quarts low. But, you may have the wrong dip stick. It could be shorter. But, after that many miles, you should be burning alot of oil. Especially at higher rpms.

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'82 Firebird, dead stock, 9 bolt disc rear, over 200,000 miles and still going strong, more to come...
http://www.spinfrenzy.com/stingerssx...easures.html#4

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Since you're running a 400, I, too suspect you have the wrong dipstick in the engine. I don't know how many different types there are out there, but a standard Mr Gasket chrome replacement for driver's side dipstick should work. I've had them in 350's though, that required you to stick it in the "right" way (only two ways to go in) for the angle to be right to get it into the pool of oil. The other possibility is if you have a windage tray, the stick may not be going through its proper hole (had that problem with the stock pan baffle on the 396).

jrr, you have the facts about petroleum oil right, then come to the wrong conclusion about synthetic. I've been doing 25k/1-year AMSOIL oil changes for almost 18 years - haven't worn out an engine yet. The "dirt" that has to be dumped out with the oil comes primarily from the oil itself via the process you described. The "soot, ash, and other funk" to which you refer is a very small portion of what makes the oil dirty (about 15% in petroleum-based oils - the rest comes from the oil). Proper oil and air filtration (not paper or K&N) will also go a long way towards reducing the non-oil-source dirt (about 10% of the remaining 15%). By eliminating 85% of the "dirt" that petroleum-based oils produce, the drain interval can be extended drastically with a quality synthetic like Mobil 1 or AMSOIL.

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82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R. 2.93 limited slip. Cat-back from '91 GTA, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LB9 w/ZZ3 cam, TBD heads, exhaust, paint, etc.).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. 0.030 over 396, Weiand Action+, Edelbrock 1901 Q-Jet, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" headers, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & shift kit, 3.08 10-bolt, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Best 15.1 @ 5800' Bandimere. Daily driver while Camaro was being put together.

Black Beauty

hmmmm...maybe i should change that. im not running the 400 yet. i wish i was. i still got the 305. i think my question was....when the dipstick reads zero....is there NO OIL in there or am i just a quart or two short. i THINK someone answered that. plus my car wasnt level....very slight angle. but it could affect the reading i suppose. so what is the conclusion about the change interval? maybe 10000 miles? thanks for all the help

RB83L69

It sounds to me like you should fill your motor up with 5 quarts of new oil, check it with the dipstick, and mark the stick where the level is. That would be a great place to start trying to get a handle on it. The thing about the windage tray is a fairly frequent gotcha, I've seen that more than once. Another subtle gotcha is the pan gasket, if you're using the through-the-block kind of "gauge and tube assembly": if it's out of line the right way, it could be wiping the dipstick dry.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

JoelOl75

My .02 on the 25,000 mile oil change is BS!

It may apply to a honda civic running 100 mile trips in 70 degree weather.

But in a worked motor running 160 thermostat making short trips in PA Winter weather alot of dilution will occur making a nice mixture of oil/gas. Forged pistons make the problem worse because of their sloppy clearance and wide ring gaps (for heavy nitrous! Why else use forged) alot of fuel will get in and alot of oil (especially light synthetics) will get out making it appear that your oil level is stable but it is getting slowly replaced with gas.

Make any sense to anyone?

Vader

BB,

Like I said, check the dipstick.

As far as the change interval, I run everything I have from the cars to the lawnmower on Mobil 1. I still change the oil at 3,000 mile intervals, sometimes slipping to 3,500. On the other hand, I can be pretty **** about things like that, and that's just a preference.

The newest GM owner's manual service intervals still list between 3,000 and 7,500 miles depending on driving conditions - regardless of the type of oil used. With synthetic you can probably stretch it closer to the 7,500 mile mark, but I'd rather change oil than rings.

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Later,
Vader
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"I'm gonna talk about some freaky sheet now..."
Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.0
KaleCo Auto Parts

Black Beauty

thanks V. ill check it out when i change it.
five7kid....any way you can tell if you oil is dirty? and do u change the filter at 7 thou? THE MAIN REASON I DONT WANNA CHANGE THE OIL AT 3 IS CUZ ITS EXPENSIVE AND ITS A OLD *** 305....ON THE 400....I MIGHT EVEN CHANGE IT AT 2!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The only sure way to know if your oil is servicable is through oil analysis. That includes "dirt" - can't tell by looks, but if it feels gritty, then it's definitely dirty! The typical oil analysis costs slightly less than the typical synthetic oil change.

25k changes BS, Joel? Some of us older guys remember laughing at people saying they were getting 15k miles out of their radial tires. For the specific circumstances you mentioned, yes, diluted oil should be changed. I've never owned a Honda (car), but like I said, I've never worn out an engine using synthetic oil with the extended drain interval. Right now I don't own any vehicles with less than 100k miles.

BB, I use the AMSOIL synthetic oil and filters. Their recommended change for a mechanically sound engine is 25k (35k with their top-of-the-line) or 1 year, with the filter changed at 1/2 of that interval. This is with their air filter, too, which keeps out a bunch of dirt from the oil vs. either paper or a K&N-type filter (believe it or not).

Are you hurting anything by changing synthetic oil less often than a petroleum oil (under normal circumstances)? No. Are you hurting anything by changing synthetic oil on the same interval as you would a petroleum oil? Only your pocketbook, assuming you properly recycle the used oil, filter, and containers.

Mo

about recycling...the Kragen near me takes it for free, all of it...
By the way, when you guys drain you're oil, how much do you usually get?
thanks
Mo

[This message has been edited by Mo (edited January 24, 2001).]

Karps TA

iTrader: (2)

First off, If it's too expensive for you to use Mobil one and change it at the same intervals, then just use conventional oil. On an engine with that many miles, the synthetic is probably just burning away anyways.

That said I ran into the same problems with Mobil 1. My engine hated it, and got rid of it pretty quickly. I do not have that problem running conventional Valvoline. Can I explain it, no, but it's not the first time I've seen it.

If anything try using a semi synthetic if you still want some of the properties of a synthetic oil but at a lower price.

berlinetta84

while were on the subject, what is the advantage to going to a heavier weight oil? like what will be gained by going to 20w50 from 10w30?

Black Beauty

mo, i work for kragen. yes we take it for free.

karps ta, i thought about that...but many people have advised against doing so.

berlinetta, 20w50 is simply a thicker oil...if you have burning trouble, or leaks...this could help....though its pretty thick...and that doesnt help when you cold start. thats not really an advantage. thanks again guys. i guess ill just have to wait and see.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

As to your 1st paragraph, I couldn't disagree with you more. There is no way a conventional oil will protect as well as synthetic. Using your logic, knowing radial tires last longer than bias ply, should you buy new radial tires when they have the same mileage that a bias ply tire would wear out, even though the radials aren't worn out yet?

As for your 2nd paragraph, two comments: 1) The first change of synthetic cleans the deposits left by the previously used petroleum oil - this contaminates the oil, making it more easily burned - problem usually goes away or is reduced on the 2nd oil change; 2) The #1 complaint I've heard about Mobil 1 over the last 15 years is high consumption - something about its formulation just seems to lend itself to getting consumed more than others like AMSOIL.

Your third paragraph I'll not contest. But, back to your consumption comments, most high mileage SBC's have hard valve guide seals unless they've been changed out, and the simple upgrade to umbrella seals will reduce oil consumption substantially, which in turn reduces the number of times you have to aim a plastic bottle at your valve cover. Fix that and enjoy the full benefits of full synthetic.

Berlinetta, to add to BB's comments, there is a common misconception that heavier weight oils "protect" better than lighter weights. That may be true for a particular type of oil, but the real protection comes from properties such as film strength and shear strength - characteristics that aren't necessarily tied to viscosity. Unless you have a "loose" engine, you're much better off using a 10W30 or 5W30.

[This message has been edited by five7kid (edited January 24, 2001).]

camaro6spd

CHANGE YOU OIL....Why skip out on cheap insurance of your engines life.....I don't see what the big deal is in changing your oil every 2 months.....that is with it putting around 500 miles on it each week.....I doubt alot....not all...but alot of you out there do that.....The only ppl I know that do that are my parents....they commute....All We do in that cae is keep trake at at 3000 miles go to Wal-mart get a brand name oil, ACdelco Filter and change it.....They are highway miles so the engine stays at one temp and dose not get real hot.....Gm says in that car 7500, but my father who has beena mechanic for 30 yrs said " Too Hell with that....changing you oil with a good filter(Delco for GM and Motorcraft for FORD) and good oil(brand name, dino oil), is cheap insurance of long engine life...We have never had an engine fail because of an oil related/wear problem....They only one that did was the Ford because the H2O pump failed and the car overheated.....the impeller fell off the shaft).

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Man, dig up a year-old topic, then say absolutely nothing new (but still some wrong-headed stuff).

As for oil-related failures, I've had two cooling system failures (overheated bad) and one oil pump failure (long story - will tell if interested) when synthetic was in the pan. All three continued to run as before after the failed part was replaced.

Why not change it every 3000 miles? I'll save the unnecessary spending, and take my wife out to dinner instead. Many, MANY more benefits to that over changing synthetic oil too often...