daddy33

iTrader: (5)

ok guys im getting down now to completing my engine. I have the whole shortblock complete and will probably getting the heads and intake ordered in a couple weeks. (still deciding which heads to go with but got my eye on the aluminum Edelbrock victor jr. heads and RPM air gap intake.)

Im just curious what hp/tq i would approx. be making and 1/4 mile times. The following is what i got:

350 4 bolt main bored .040
crank turned .010 and bottom end balanced
keith black dish top pistons (KB142, believe their -15.5)
elgin prostock cam (.465/.488 ) (.050 dur. 224/234)
double roller timing chain

Now these are the items im looking toward getting:

Aluminum Edelbrock victor jr. heads with 2.08/1.60 valves, 64cc, 215cc intake with .015 gasket thickness
1.6 crane gold RR
RPM air gap intake
800 edelbrock electric choke
1" carb spacer
MSD ignition
1 5/8" flowtech headers with 2 1/2" collector and 3"turndown

Now with this setup im hoping to get around 450 HP, now would i make it or with i need to change my cam, heads, etc..??? I need to know a.s.a.p before i soon order the parts. Any input will be helpfull

Oh and this is some other stuff i have on my car:
Rebuilt 700r4 with 2600 stall
10 bolt rear with 3.73 posi

Camaroman92rs

look into edelbrock,they make a package that the put a matched cam in with the heads as a package deal.i think i saw it in JC Whitley or Jeg

daddy33

iTrader: (5)

well i already have the cam in the block and if really dont need to get another then that could save me a little on money, but if i really need to get a different to gain more power then i guess i would look into the package. Im just trying to see what kind of power i got for the setup im going with right now

RB83L69

You have some major mismatched components in there.

Get a better cam. That's a really old design, with lazy ramps, meant for the days when the only valve springs you could get were stock. Its powerband is also much lower than where the heads and intake you're looking at should want it to be. You've got all this flow capacity in those other parts; why would you want a cam that just barely cracks the valves open for a slim instant of time?

Same with the headers. You've got all this flow in the heads and intake, why choke it off with some cheapie 305 street headers?

Power comes from flow. It's almost a direct relationship, as in, if you double the flow through the motor as a whole, you double the HP. Energy, that is to say useful work, comes from burning gasoline molecules; it requires oxygen to burn fuel; you can only burn as much fuel as you have oxygen. Since "horsepower" is a largely non-existent mathematical concept calculated as energy per unit time, and energy is a function of the number of air/fuel molecules consumed, it should be pretty obvious that flow (air molecules per time, measured as cubic feet per minute) equals horsepower. It's so simple it's easy to outsmart yourself and overlook it.

Think of your engine's entire induction system, from the air cleaner to the tailpipe, as a series of pieces of garden hose. The air cleaner, the carb, the intake, the head ports, the valve opening (both the size and the time that they stay open), the headers, and the rest of the exhaust can each be thought of as one piece of your series. Going back to the idea that flow = power, if you want the max power out of your engine, you'd want to make sure that no one piece of the total system produces a flow restriction at a much lower flow than all the other pieces. So, you'd want each piece sized about the same, right? Same with your engine.

I'd suggest a cam with around 235-240° of intake duration at the very least, the steepest ramps you can possibly get, and as much lift as possible. Something like a Comp XE284.

Use headers with 1¾" primaries, not the 1-5/8" 305 size. Those weenie little things will choke the rest of the engine.

F-BIRD'88

KB142 pistons have a -18cc dish.
on a 350 with 64cc heads the compression ratio is going to be very low. like 9:1

You're giving up a lot by going this low on CR.
Unless this motor is to run strictly on 87octane gas.

You could bolt on a supercharger on this motor.

Should have used flat tops or 54cc heads.
I'd put the power to be about 390 to 410 hp the way it is.

daddy33

iTrader: (5)

Hey RB83L69, if i get 1 3/4 inch headers which ones willin my '85 camaro that will clear the crossmember and everything and also connect to my exsisting y-pipe? also i've been thinking the same thing about the cam, im just gonna take that one out and sell it and get a different one.

Oh and F-Bird'88, i checked out the comp. ratio and its 9.58:1 with 64cc heads, zero deck, .015 thickness gasket and the -18cc pistons. I was thinking about shaving the heads down to 60cc because i wanna boost the comp. ratio up as much as i can but without using some kind of power adder. With the heads at 60cc it makes it at 10.01:1 U think that is ok or should i do something else to get it up a little more???

F-BIRD'88

On a "0 decked block" where the piston comes right up to the top a .015" thick gasket is not enough.
The piston gets way too close to the head at TDC.
A total .030" is the minimum. use a .039" thick gasket.

And some smaller chamber heads.

Protopline sells a 50cc chambered version of their
aluminum lightning head. The 220cc port version would
be about equivelent to the Vic JR. they flow like gangbusters

Vic Jr's are probabily thick enough to be anglemilled to 50cc+/-...

That would get you 10.48:1.
A .051" gasket will get you 10:16 with 50cc heads.

Either of those heads have tons of power potential .
But will want to rev on a 350ci motor.
Either head deserves a camshaft with alot more valve lift
than that .465-.488" cam provides even with 1.6:1 rockers.
{not that it's so bad of a cam, but it won;t get you 450hp and it won;t lift the valve high enough to allow the good cylinder head to show it's stuff.
I would recommend a solid street roller with .550" lift or more. Something around 236 to 248@.050" duration makes a good street racer cam.
A simular solid flat tappet is a good alternative. ( 1.6 rockers)
A hydraulic cam will hold this motor back from its best potential (rpm limited)
Gotta ask, how did you end up with -18cc dished pistons
for this motor?

F-BIRD'88

If you pick a cylinder head that flows real good, but with smaller < 200cc ports the motor will not be so rpm hungry and make more overall torque. a 215/220cc port is going to want to rpm on a 350ci motor. (and will want a much bigger cam)
A Vic Jr. intake would be a better match for such a large head.
There are many 170-195cc heads that will get you 450hp with the Performer RPM. A better match up.
Something(s) to look over and consider before making the head purchase.

daddy33

iTrader: (5)

hey f-bird, didnt you say that the KB142 have -18cc dish? Thats what you said in the forum just a couple replys back. But then i also was told they are -15.5cc. I need to go and double check. Well i'll most likely ditch the cam and buy a bigger around .550 lift. So your saying that heads with over 200cc intake flow are going to be RPM hungry so dont you think the RPM air gap would be a good match for it? Isnt the higher of intake flow you go the more you lose in low end?

N8MAN1068

whats this about elgin cams using old ramp technology?

N8MAN1068

whats this about elgin cams using old ramp technology? don't bust my bubble now...i was looking at getting one.

RB83L69

AFAIK there are no 1¾" headers that will hook up to your stock Y-pipe; and if there were, you wouldn't want them. Remember about the pieces of garden hose. You need to get rid of that restrictive thing too. Get good quality headers that come with their own Y-pipe.

I completely missed the pistons, I just read right over them. I'm inclined to agree that a 64cc head is far too large for that much dish. You need the total "minimum vloume" in a 350 to end up at around 70-72cc with iron heads, which will put your compression at about 10:1; or about 66cc with aluminum heads. That includes the volume in the head gasket, the valve reliefs, the chambers, the dish, and anywhere else. The higher your CR is, the more important the "squish" or "quench" becomes; it's of no concern whatsoever for most engines below 9:1, and becomes really significant at abot 10:1, and critical at above 10.5:1.

So for optimum results plan on a zero-decked block and a .039" head gaket, and pick the CC ccs that will give you the "minimum volume" mentioned above.