anubiscougar

What should i do, to get about 600-650 hp and about 550-600 torque out of a motor.

I'm looking at a 406 stroker kit right now, pumps out 530 hp/599 torque. This is with certain heads.. i'm looking at better heads, better cam, better carb... or carbs..

I want to know, if i could do this any cheaper than about 3 grand.. that's how much it'd cost me to do the stroker stuff, about 3 grand... Or can i get those high of numbers with a 383, without spending over 3 grand, and not blowing(supercharging) it..

btw.. i'm wanting a real choppy idle, like drag cars have. and.. small block... any suggestions as to what type of stuff to put into an engine to get those kinds of numbers out? ANything would be good. Since i'm in the ideas/planning stages right now.

&...i'm not worried about blowing tranny or rear end, i'm wanting to change them both as well. SO don't warn me about either of those. And i have a jasper tranny.. duno how well it'll hold up to that much umph.. but i've been told it should....least for a bit.

thx.

automec

first off figure about at least twice that much money for that kind with no power adder

mike

RWB____s

to build a engine like that that will live and run hard for a long time will COST! Upwards toward 10 grand or more if you dont have a good baseline engine to start with. By baseline I mean aftermarket block, crank, rods, etc. Power doesn't come cheap.
Its expensive and takes alot of trial and error work . The easy way out is nitrous and/or a huffer(blower). You will still need
the basics I mentioned to make it live with proper maintenance.
A big radicle camshaft is NOT fun to drive on the street. the noise does get old after a short time, drivability is poor, Hard on driveline parts, trans and converter. Gas mileage is useless . If
you want to drive a long distance to a event you better think seriously about a truck and trailor to tow the car there. A long distance drive is miserable in a car like that. and the list goes on
and on.

SweetS10v8

Just so no one jumps on you in the future, a 406 is not a stroker, its a 400 bored .030 over. Same as a 355 is a 350 .030 over

TRAXION

I guess you've never run a really radical cam in an EFI application and tuned it yourself using a Wide Band. With a bad tune it will do exactly what you mentioned. But, a good tune provides a night and day difference.

I'm running a very radical hydraulic roller cam in my 350. I'm talking over 230d on the intake. Driveability is not poor. It is not hard on the driveline parts. I got 15mpg on a 4 hour round trip and that includes racing. The car drove wonderful on that drive and was a blast.

????????

Tim

anubiscougar

rgr, i know it's a 400 bored .30 over.

camarojoe

A big radical camshaft is a total necessity on the street, that is if you're nuts. Or if you just can't stand to lose. I've gotten 22mph on the highway and about 15mpg on the street tak'n it easy. THis was with FI and the zzx cam 240/240 .598 lift. What else wouldn't you like about a cam like this? If you want 600hp w/ a sbc you're going to need a cam at least this big.

RWB____s

IMHO these cams you mention are not radicle to me. Radicle to me is more like 270-280dur.@ .050 and like 106 to 104 lobe centers with about 600+ lift. Would a fuel injection setup be easy to tune with something like that?

1983Fbody

Just add turbo, nitrous and a fart can

You want one of those Bill Mitchell "hardcore" racing motors for 3,000.00 is basically what your saying.. well its not gonna happen

for 3,000.00 you might get 600hp/600ft.lbs. out of a well setup nitrous motor its not going to last..

for 5,000.00 you could probably build a 600hp blower motor..

for 7-8grand theres probably some costs you could cut and do some of the work yourself, you would end up with an engine similar to the "hardcore racing" motors like summit sells for 10grand. 600hp N/A

Dewey316

this would fit the ticket....

http://www.shafiroff.com/434_595_engine.asp

88IROC350TPI

You could build a 406 with that much power for about $6000-7000 if you use the right parts and know what you're doing ...With a factory block. A friend of mine has a (I can get the full specs, these are off the top of my head): 406 with 6" rods, 14.5:1 compression, heavily ported Dart Pro 1 heads, custom ground solid roller with something like (real scetchy in my head, sorry) 280 @ 050 duration, .650'ish lift, 109lsa. Carb was an 850 Holley HP worked out to flow like 1100cfm, crank trigger ignition, super victor intake, 1 3/4" headers with 3" exhaust (needs custom headers bad). Transmission is 1.76 powerglide with a 5500RPM stall (footbraked) he shifts at like 7200RPM, 4.56 gears in a 8.5 spooled 10-bolt with 29.5x11.50" tires. Ladder bar suspension

In a 2900lb car he went 10.0 @ 137mph on motor. With better headers and a Dominator carb It'd be in the 9's easily. On top of the motor is a NOS fogger kit ready to use next season should put it into the 8's. This car gets driven A LOT on the street runs cool all day long and gets like 7mpg (race fuel, of course)

That is a TRUE 600HP street car and is a blast to drive in. I wanted to throw my car in the garbage after taking a cruise in this monster. Anyway, its very possible to build without spending $10k+ like people above said.

SweetS10v8

The way I am doing it with a budget is to:

1. 400 block, 2 bolt. $50-$400
2. Debur, Hot tank, Magnaflux, bore, line bore, deck the block, stud the mains ~$500-$700
3. Aftermarket heads(AFR gets my vote) $800-$1400
4. Rotating assembly w/ bearings and rings $700-$1500+
5. Solid cam and lifters (~240 dur@.050 and .510 lift) ~$150
6. Nitrous ~$500

I know it goes over the $3000 mark, but that is as cheap and basic as I can think of to make that kind of power.

I am in the process a very simular budget build up and this is my plan so far. I get to save some $$ though, I got a 400 block free(birthday gift, std bore/2 bolt!! ) and I get to do all the machine work myself in a high performance engine machining class at school.

I kept fighting the whole 434ci bug, but thats expencive. Then I decided on a 406ci and then even thought I wanted a 377ci. My final thoughts were, well a 377 is just like having a 350 bored .155 over(400 block/350 crank). Then finally I decided to stick with the 406, because so many people love their 383 (350 block/400 crank). I used the same reasoning in deciding to keep the 406. which was that the 406 is like having a 383 and boring it .155 over too! So that was my thoughts on uses for a 400 block.

Add a roller cam later when the budget allows, figure $1000 for the flat tappet to roller swap.

daverr

iTrader: (1)

for 3000 dollars ud basically have a good 300 hp to 350 hp motor.now if u use $3000 to build a 600 hp motors, its not going to last as long as a 10000 dollar 600 hp motor.So if your dead set for a 600 hp motor ,start saving alot more.

88IROC350TPI

That couldn't be any more untrue.

RWB____s

In a 2900lb car he went 10.0 @ 137mph on motor. With better headers and a Dominator carb It'd be in the 9's easily. On top of the motor is a NOS fogger kit ready to use next season should put it into the 8's. This car gets driven A LOT on the street runs cool all day long and gets like 7mpg (race fuel, of course)

That is a TRUE 600HP street car and is a blast to drive in. I wanted to throw my car in the garbage after taking a cruise in this monster. Anyway, its very possible to build without spending $10k+ like people above said.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I started with "NOTHING" no valve covers, nuts, bolts, etc. "NOTHING" except a rolling car and no trans and by the time I got done searching and purchasing for all the parts at a decent price and having the machine work done properly and not done buy some dirt bag engineering out fit. Carb to pan ready to run. $8000.00 and some change.
That price includes taxes, shipping, and labor and engine dyno work. Add a billet fly wheel ,tremac TKO II, C/force light weight clutch setup and the package over $10,000.
It runs on 91 octane pump gas no octane boost. makes over 500hp an 450 lbs of torque out of a .030 over "350" in a 3370 lbs car with no nitrous or external boost.
It should run well into the elevens on drag tires with some chassis tuning.
I hope your friend he drives that car on the street alot. I would like to know what brand gas or octane boost he runs. Because I'll buy stock in that company so he can make me rich.
A wise man who races much faster stuff that I can dream of
told me before I started my project, that Quote: when you "think" you have it figured out as to how much it will cost , take that figure and DOUBLE it and it will be close to the actual cost. He was almost right on ! Remember you get what you pay for!

Ho, I almost forgot It is trailored because it will not meet california smog and and with a .580 lift solid lifter cam with 270 dur@.050 on 106 CL its alittle nasty to drive comfortably. It idles at 1400 rpm, power brakes are barely working even with a canister.

88IROC350TPI

Ah, yes if you tally up the trans and converter into it ($1000 ATI powerglide, $800 converter) and all other components it probably would of been in the $10,000 range for my friends car. The way he sees it (and I) is that whats the point in building a car you cant cruise around in on the street? Sure he trailers it to the track but other than that it gets driven on the weekends around town.

I am by no means saying you can build a 600HP motor along with a trans and car to handle it for under $10k but you can definately build the motor.

RWB____s

At times I wish I could drive it on the street here also. But like I said It would be a real pain in the *** in the traffic we have here
in So-Cal. Plus insurance rates on everything else. I have to much to lose. House, wife, Son "future driver" . He's thirteen goin on twentyone and wants the camaro for his "FIRST" car.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

want 600 hp? Take my setup and spend a $hit load more money. I have around 475-500hp, with a good tune. this is mearly speculation right now, no dyno numbers. I am going to have the heads flowed, and get a bigger cam, probably around 24x/25x with about .600 lift. I know I made a post similar to this in another thread last night. After a new cam and intake, I hope to have around 540, that may be shooting high but we will see how good out of the box protoplines are. 600 hp N/A is IMHO hard to do, and takes a lot of money. It would be easier, and cheaper to build a solid 450hp engine, forged parts, and spray 150-200 on it. The engine would be drivable, especially if its a 406+c.i.d. and would go really fast when it needed to be.
I don't know if some people understand what it takes to make 600hp on motor. You need some super flowing heads, its gonna cost more than 1400 for some good AFR's that will flow that much. Big solid roller, big valve springs, victor jr/sr intake, 4000+ stall, 4.10's+, 12:1+ compression, and lots of gas money

88IROC350TPI

Ah trust me I know, here in Jersey insurance is INSANE and there are pretty strict emissions laws. This car I'm talking about is a 1964 Chevy II though so its got historic tags. Must be nice to pay $1xx a year for insurance, thats where the race fuel money comes from I guess.

Anyway, back to the original question. Building a 600HP N/A motor on a budget wouldnt be easy. His best bet would be to use nitrous. $3000 could build a pretty beefy motor especially if you find used heads and such. Build 406 with a good rotating assembly, try to find some decent used heads, and beef up your fuel system. Get yourself a NOS Cheater (or whatever else you prefer) kit and spray 250HP into that beast. It'll last forever as long as you take care of it - its all in the tune. Sounds simple enough don't it?

RWB____s

Yep sounds like a plan to me. I would like to try NOS on mine eventually. Later tho, I have other things that need to be taken care of first. I'm toying with the idea of a vacuum pump for my brakes and possible for a pan evac system. I wonder how much vacuum gets pulled thru a vac-u-pan setup by the headers?

nosfed454

a big block can easy push out 500 torque. look up some of the early 455 Buick s a stock 455 pushed 500- i own a 455 pop up pistons racing cam and much more
but 454s are easy to get and i love the low end torque, dollar for dollar 454 is the cheapest way i have found to get in the 500 range. and olds made a 500CI motor. no need to spend alot. if i can't build it at home i can't build it
put some aluminum heads on it ditch some stuff and the pounds come off. i gave $8 hundred for my 454 it could have been ran , but i wanna change alot of stuff i'll have less than 3k in my motor doing nearly all the work my self.
406 is best sb in my view
but the 454 has more on tap 7 or 8 hundred hp if you want it

RWB____s

allright, last post for the night for me ( bed time). YES! A rat is the way to go.You can't beat cubic inches for overall easy power and reliability. I use to drag race a rat motor 67 camaro back in the mid seventies. Ran High 10's with it. Not to bad at the time for my first toy racer. I would kill to have it back today with the neet stuff available now. I sold it over a old girl friend for $1500 turn key for the car. I thought we were goin to get married. Then she bailed on me . The engine went into a pro gas car and the rolling car was sold again to a street stroke who screwed it up and crashed it at the track were it burned to the ground. That will NEVER happen again!!!:nono: Good nite all.

scottland

just use a world products hardcord 454 SB as a guide.

only build a 434 (because aftermarket blocks are $$$$)

build a stout bottom end

use the same, or near the same grind soild cam they do (0.560/0.554 lift and 252/260 duration at 0.050 on a 112 LDA)

10:1 compression

aluminum motown 220 heads ported, a super vic intake, and a 1050cfm holley dominator carb.

that should be about 550hp.

playing around with desktop dyno, 434ci SB, out of the box AFR 210's, 10:1 compression, 1000cfm carb, and a comp cams XR288 cam is about 560hp@6000rpm and 557lb-tq@4500rpm.

desktop dyno isn't the most accurate thing in the world, but i bet its pretty close give or take 15hp.

and the above, sounds like a pretty nice motor to me for about 6 grand.

but if you think you can get 600-650hp for 3grand NA, your delusional. it will take atleast twice that much

nosfed454

500 hp for 3 grand is doable, but the price is up in the air, some people can spend more time looking for used parts and may do most of the work them self.
were on the other hand some people want to open a catalog whip out a charge card. and pay some body to do most of the work
i know a guy who works at an auto parts that also build motors machine shop and all, he built what would have been a 20k car for only about 5k. he got all new parts for less the many of us could buy them used and did most of the machine work his self. I'm not on crack here its just i have seen things done cheaply. as for me I'm building up my own small machine shop bit by bit. so sure i could build some thing more cheaply, i found a boring bar for $200 , it was slow and had a hand feed, but i don't mind as long as it gets the job done. I'm not at most gonna build afew motors in a year, not like a real machine shop were speed is important to get motors done fast.
on the topic of girls
you can't live with them and you can't live with out them.

nosfed454

RWB____s i know the feeling. how i would love to have some of my old cars back. i remember in the old days when we would cut up the first gens for scrap, back then they had no dollar value with a little rust and a dent or two and a blown motor off to the scrap pile. just like now i see people scraping out third gens left and right but one day time will come.

nosfed454

I'm considering doing away with the power booster
full carbon brake pads grip good and a small bore master cylinder might put out more psi, I'm on this topic in motor swap

BadBlue91RS

Hello Homo!

1983Fbody

Josh, I should have known.. forgot you were in here where's my computer wheres my computer wears my computrrrr


Back to the topic..

For 3grand your not gonna build a sbc for 600hp n/a unless you own a machine shop or know someone that does. Then happen to have alot of parts just laying around or you can get the hook up on used nascar parts or have connections the rest of us dont.

You could probably throw together a 600hp 455 for 3,000.00 or a 454 if you can do some of the work yourself/ porting/ valvejob/ gasket matching/ junkyard scrounging.

Hot rod mag did a "junkyard" 350 nitrous project, I think they hit 600hp before it blew up.

88IROC350TPI

"No subsititute for cubic inches" More cubes = more power and more streetability BUT the fact is SBC parts are a dime a dozen and they also fit into our cars without a set of custom headers and all kindsa other mods. I'll say it again: decently built 406 with some used parts and a crapload of nitrous will give 600+HP. Its theeeeee simplest and least expensive way he can go about doing it.

Case closed.

stevedave454

i know we're talkin bout small blocks.. but my friend has like $1800 into his 427 that has to be making over 600HP... he got the short block, completely forged with 13.5:1 pistons for $500 used, put some bone stock heads on it, team G intake, dominator carb, and a 250 shot of nos.. oh and a solid roller cam, its in a 70 nova with gutted interior, and 10.5 et streets, runs 12.7 N/A and 11.3 juicin, but has traction problems, btw thats in denver co, we're 1 sec slower than sea level... personally i think he could gain a lot with a nos/boost cam, but may blow head gaskets, if not the motor. also he drives his on the streets on the weekend, with a mixture of 50/50 race gas pump gas, and his cam is somewhere around 260 @ 0.50 and 620 some lift range

SweetS10v8

What??? LOL, sorry I have to, no offense, just pointing something out to you. You think with that motor description he has a lot to gain with a cam???? Did you not see the "Stock heads" Seriously there is up to 100+hp lost because of stock heads on a 434ci with13.5:1, Mechanical roller, 250hp nitrous, lol. If he only has $1800 into it he needs to take $2000 and buy a set of heads, and he would still be ahead of the game! Sorry not trying to go off topic but this made me chuckle.

BTW: whats your S-10 run with the TPI?

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

I agree, put a set or merlin heads, heck even some edeljunk RPM heads and it would wake that 427 up.

SweetS10v8

oh hes talking 427 BB, i thought he was talking 427 SB. Still 100+hp in heads availiable

zerotosixtyV8

rofl, a friend and I are building a 400 HP 350 for under $1000
ported big valve 461s, dual plane performer RPM, roller rockers, 650 cfm carb, corvette L98 bottom end with 40xxx miles on it, 1 3/4" headers, and a single profile performance hydraulic cam comp cams. forgot the grind, it's mild, but so is the rest of the motor. plans are for another 100 HP with a solid roller, single plan, 750 cfm carb, 220cc heads, and tall gears to keep it in the powerband. that's approx $3000 for 500 HP, not 350 HP. you could buy an LS1 for $1000 and be at 350 HP right away. repeat after me "old domestics are cheap to build"

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

You must have had alot of the parts already.

91 GTA Ramair2

Hell yes guy EFI and radical cam's Rule it's so much fun to street drive...........

I liked how the TBI/Race engine came out in the AMX that not only am i rebuilding and tweak that engine out a bit,I'm building a 406 TBI with a 292*Dur575Lift cam........

the AMX's old cam was a 295*Dur580lift But the New cam is 307*Dur625Lift.

91 GTA Ramair2

well shoot here's the 69 AMX Build list for the NEW engine>

1969 S/S AMX DRIVE LINE BUILD:

ENGINE:
390AMC bord .040 over, 9.2:1 c/r, Dual procharger’s with crossram intake, Indy racing head's, 307*Dur.675Lift cam, 2-900Cfm 4bbl Holley TBI's.

EXHAUST:
1-5/8” headers
Side pipes.

TRANSMISSION:
Stage3 clutch, close ratio 4spd.

DIFF/RATIO:
AMC20 rear-end 4.44:1 gear's.

TIRES/WHEELS:
28X12R15's in the rear.28"tall. TORQUE THRUST D'S 15X8.5.

245/50R15's in the front.25.5"tall. TORQUE THRUST D'S 15X8.5.

ESTIMATED E/T:
9.20’s - 9.40’s.

I thought the non procharged 9.60's was a wild ride.
I can't wiat to run this new Combo.

I bet it's going to be an insanly wild ride.

car is Under going a $40,000 restoration/Buildup.

so it might be summer 2006-summer 2008,Before I'll have this expensive ordeal done. Car was in awsome shape.
After I found out what it was going to cost to redo the whole car....... i was like why did i pull it all apart ahead of time
But I spose hind sight is 20/20 right......

zerotosixtyV8

what do you mean? it shouldn't cost $3000 to build a 350 high HP if you know what to look for and don't blow all your money paying retail for parts lol. we spent wisely and built smart...