Head flow
10-26-2003, 01:58 AM
#1
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Head flow
I purchased a set of 3927186 camel hump heads on ebay a little while ago.
I was just wondering how much they will outflow the heads i have on my engine now a rough percentage estimate if anyone knows.
This is the engine i have, sorry i dont know the head casiting number:
http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...id=130&pid=383
I was just wondering how much they will outflow the heads i have on my engine now a rough percentage estimate if anyone knows.
This is the engine i have, sorry i dont know the head casiting number:
http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...id=130&pid=383
10-26-2003, 02:48 AM
#2
Not to burst your bubble, but many of the old double-hump casting mark heads may not flow as well as some of the newer heads. They gained a reputation years ago because they were better than the previous designs, and they were prized through the '70s and into the early '80s when all the smogger heads were being cast. But head technology at GM gained a lot of ground in the mid-'80s and has continued to do so (actually, they went back to what worked and learned to control emissions through better means). The old "camel humps" probably won't hurt you much, but before getting all set up to change them, you might want to check the casting numbers of your current heads and see what you can find about them.
10-26-2003, 07:16 AM
#3
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Car: 4
Engine: 6
Transmission: 5
That engine originally came with 882 heads. I don't know what the replacement version comes with. I would expect either the same thing, or "Hecho En Mexico" 993s. Not much difference in either case.
I've woke up more cars than I care to recall by throwing the 882s in the garbage and putting on 186s. The flow is somewhat better as they come, out of the box; but 186s have a whole lot more cast thickness in some critical places especially around the exhaust ports. And of course, it's a HUGE bump in CR, to lose 12 cc out of the chamber; should take it from 8½ to about 9¼ or so.
My routine years ago would have been to get a set of those, get them worked for screw-in studs & guide plates, enlarge the spring pockets, cut the guide bosses for Teflon seals, port them, install larger valves, use undercut-stem valves of course, new guides or at least bronze liners, etc. Nowadays though, by the time you buy a set of them and do all that, you could have bought a set of brand-new one in the aftermarket for the same or less money that will outperform them.
While you have it torn down, even if you don't modify them at all, throw away that 929 cam if you haven't already, and put something decent but mild in there.... a Comp XE262 or 256 is an excellent choice, or even one of those generic 204°/214° things lke Summit sells is far better than that stock POS. And get new valve springs no matter what, the factory ones are hardly even enough for a 929 when new, let alone something aggressive after they've been used.
I've woke up more cars than I care to recall by throwing the 882s in the garbage and putting on 186s. The flow is somewhat better as they come, out of the box; but 186s have a whole lot more cast thickness in some critical places especially around the exhaust ports. And of course, it's a HUGE bump in CR, to lose 12 cc out of the chamber; should take it from 8½ to about 9¼ or so.
My routine years ago would have been to get a set of those, get them worked for screw-in studs & guide plates, enlarge the spring pockets, cut the guide bosses for Teflon seals, port them, install larger valves, use undercut-stem valves of course, new guides or at least bronze liners, etc. Nowadays though, by the time you buy a set of them and do all that, you could have bought a set of brand-new one in the aftermarket for the same or less money that will outperform them.
While you have it torn down, even if you don't modify them at all, throw away that 929 cam if you haven't already, and put something decent but mild in there.... a Comp XE262 or 256 is an excellent choice, or even one of those generic 204°/214° things lke Summit sells is far better than that stock POS. And get new valve springs no matter what, the factory ones are hardly even enough for a 929 when new, let alone something aggressive after they've been used.
10-26-2003, 08:26 AM
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The casting numbers are on the top of the head, so i can just pull the valve cover to get them right?
I definatly wont be getting the heads ported and polished, every shop i can find around me wants $1000 to do it. I dont want to try to do it myself, since i dont have anything to practice on and if i destroy the camel humps then i have nothing.
This is what i was gonna have the machine shop do (no price on this yet)
-cut for 2.02 1.60 valves
-3 angle valve job
-spring seats cut to match the springs i buy
-screw in studs and guide plates
-gasket match intake and exhaust ports
-decked for a little for more compression and just to make sure they are flat (i was estimating 9.25 with just with the head swap, so with a thin gasket and some decking i might get 9.5)
I was also gonna ask them if they could just clean out burrs and imperfections instead of port and polish see how much that would run.
I have been running this camp for awhile now
Comp Cam Kit 238 Grind: 262 Lift: .462"/.469" RPM: 1300-5600
These are the parts i was looking at gettign for the heads:
Exhaust Valves: http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...54&prmenbr=361
Intake Valves: http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...55&prmenbr=361
Valve Stem Seals: http://www.jegs.com//cgi-bin/ncommer...56&prmenbr=361
Spring Retainers: http://www.jegs.com//cgi-bin/ncommer...08&prmenbr=361
Valve Springs: http://www.jegs.com//cgi-bin/ncommer...35&prmenbr=361
Guideplates: http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...65&prmenbr=361
Valve Locks: http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...03&prmenbr=361
Rocker Studs: http://www.jegs.com//cgi-bin/ncommer...03&prmenbr=361
Pushrods: http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...98&prmenbr=361
Rocker Arms: http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...19&prmenbr=361
as you can see im gonna end up spending at least $600 on parts for the heads, figure at least $500 of machine work im looking at $1100. I have the rocker arms already and the heads but thats it, so I am currently debating about aftermarket heads.
I definatly wont be getting the heads ported and polished, every shop i can find around me wants $1000 to do it. I dont want to try to do it myself, since i dont have anything to practice on and if i destroy the camel humps then i have nothing.
This is what i was gonna have the machine shop do (no price on this yet)
-cut for 2.02 1.60 valves
-3 angle valve job
-spring seats cut to match the springs i buy
-screw in studs and guide plates
-gasket match intake and exhaust ports
-decked for a little for more compression and just to make sure they are flat (i was estimating 9.25 with just with the head swap, so with a thin gasket and some decking i might get 9.5)
I was also gonna ask them if they could just clean out burrs and imperfections instead of port and polish see how much that would run.
I have been running this camp for awhile now
Comp Cam Kit 238 Grind: 262 Lift: .462"/.469" RPM: 1300-5600
These are the parts i was looking at gettign for the heads:
Exhaust Valves: http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...54&prmenbr=361
Intake Valves: http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...55&prmenbr=361
Valve Stem Seals: http://www.jegs.com//cgi-bin/ncommer...56&prmenbr=361
Spring Retainers: http://www.jegs.com//cgi-bin/ncommer...08&prmenbr=361
Valve Springs: http://www.jegs.com//cgi-bin/ncommer...35&prmenbr=361
Guideplates: http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...65&prmenbr=361
Valve Locks: http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...03&prmenbr=361
Rocker Studs: http://www.jegs.com//cgi-bin/ncommer...03&prmenbr=361
Pushrods: http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...98&prmenbr=361
Rocker Arms: http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...19&prmenbr=361
as you can see im gonna end up spending at least $600 on parts for the heads, figure at least $500 of machine work im looking at $1100. I have the rocker arms already and the heads but thats it, so I am currently debating about aftermarket heads.
Last edited by Daemorok; 10-26-2003 at 08:49 AM.
10-26-2003, 09:32 AM
#5
Originally posted by Daemorok
as you can see im gonna end up spending at least $600 on parts for the heads, figure at least $500 of machine work im looking at $1100. I have the rocker arms already and the heads but thats it, so I am currently debating about aftermarket heads.
as you can see im gonna end up spending at least $600 on parts for the heads, figure at least $500 of machine work im looking at $1100. I have the rocker arms already and the heads but thats it, so I am currently debating about aftermarket heads.
10-26-2003, 09:39 AM
#6
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You could save even more by buying Pro Topline heads. I've seen them for ~$700 (iron) fully assembled and ready to bolt on. You can get the aluminum version for ~$900.
10-26-2003, 09:42 AM
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Car: 4
Engine: 6
Transmission: 5
There is no point whatseover in gasket matching the ports if you don't do something about the giant steps and casting flash and other irregularities in the bowls, right behind the valves, where port shape actually matters. Having 2.02" seats cut into the heads makes the problem even worse, and does no good if the throat of the valve remains the same size. You could put 3" valves in there and it wouldn't flow any better, if the hole that the mixture has to go through to get to the valve is still its original size. Basically, what you are proposing to do is backwards. The single biggest bang-for-the-buck port mod is bowl blending, so that's where you should spend your machine shop porting dollars instead of gasket-matching which is nothing but monkey-spank if the rest of the port is still a mess.
Get the "Street Flo" valves instead, they're only about $10 a set more than those that you list, but flow nearly 10% more especially at low lift. Huge performance gain for very little more money. In fact, in some castings, 1.94" of that type will outflow 2.02" straight-stem valves.
Decking heads is irreversible. Don't permanently alter a set of irreplaceable castings in an unrecoverable manner just to make up for some inferiority somewhere else. Get them decked just enough to be flat, no more, and use a regular head gasket, not steel-shim; accept the CR you get; it will be far better than what you've got. Others may claim to have have had other experiences than this, although I can't imagine how; but every single motor I've ever torn down that was built with steel-shim gaskets and run on the street - and I do mean every single one, with not even one exception - had evidence of fire leakage from one cyl to another. That includes factory motors from the days when the factory used them, as well as all sorts of rebuilds. To me that's not very good odds that the next one I (or you) see will be any better. I can guarantee you that a 9.2 motor with head gaskets that seal will outrun a 9.4 motor with blown head gaskets, every time, with no other outcome possible.
The cam you have is the XE262, should be fine. It's probably a bit too much for the motor like it is, but is a good match for where you're going.
Add valve guide sleeving or replacement to your machine shop list, since it's hard to make a motor really run its best when the valves are free to wander around on the seat instead of landing straight on the seat every time; and make sure you tell them when they enlarge the push rod holes for guide plates that you intend to run 1.6 rockers, so that they know to enlarge them inward toward the stud. You should end up with about a $300-350 machine shop bill for all that, plus port work, which should be in the $150-200 range (by the hour...).
It's easy to see what I'm talking about, as far as running up a monster bill in old castings. Time was, that was the only way to get where you want to go; but with the invention of CNC casting, everybody and his brother is casting great heads at a very friendly price.
Get the "Street Flo" valves instead, they're only about $10 a set more than those that you list, but flow nearly 10% more especially at low lift. Huge performance gain for very little more money. In fact, in some castings, 1.94" of that type will outflow 2.02" straight-stem valves.
Decking heads is irreversible. Don't permanently alter a set of irreplaceable castings in an unrecoverable manner just to make up for some inferiority somewhere else. Get them decked just enough to be flat, no more, and use a regular head gasket, not steel-shim; accept the CR you get; it will be far better than what you've got. Others may claim to have have had other experiences than this, although I can't imagine how; but every single motor I've ever torn down that was built with steel-shim gaskets and run on the street - and I do mean every single one, with not even one exception - had evidence of fire leakage from one cyl to another. That includes factory motors from the days when the factory used them, as well as all sorts of rebuilds. To me that's not very good odds that the next one I (or you) see will be any better. I can guarantee you that a 9.2 motor with head gaskets that seal will outrun a 9.4 motor with blown head gaskets, every time, with no other outcome possible.
The cam you have is the XE262, should be fine. It's probably a bit too much for the motor like it is, but is a good match for where you're going.
Add valve guide sleeving or replacement to your machine shop list, since it's hard to make a motor really run its best when the valves are free to wander around on the seat instead of landing straight on the seat every time; and make sure you tell them when they enlarge the push rod holes for guide plates that you intend to run 1.6 rockers, so that they know to enlarge them inward toward the stud. You should end up with about a $300-350 machine shop bill for all that, plus port work, which should be in the $150-200 range (by the hour...).
It's easy to see what I'm talking about, as far as running up a monster bill in old castings. Time was, that was the only way to get where you want to go; but with the invention of CNC casting, everybody and his brother is casting great heads at a very friendly price.
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10-26-2003, 09:43 AM
#8
It appears that you've already answered your own question. From a purely economic point, new heads will be cheaper, and probably a whole lot better. Just put the double-humps back on ebay for the next person to nid on. Around here, junk yards that still have any are asking $400 per pair of the old heads, in take-off condition. Vortecs are almost that cheap, and they are new castings. A set of aftermarket heads (like Pro Topline Iron Lightning) can be purchased already assembled and machined to your specs for less than $1000. Bare cast iron versions can be had for less than $600: http://www.dcautomac.com/PRODUCTS/PROTOPLINE.htm
10-26-2003, 12:18 PM
#9
Supreme Member
Do your own porting.
Any shop that quotes you $1000 to street port some camelbacks
probabily will do them wrong anyways.
You have two junk heads to practice on....
The ones on the motor now....
Thats 16 intake ports and 16 exhaust ports You'll be an expert after doing one each.
After that you can drill and install roll pins in your stud bosses.
This "stud pinning" is all thats nessessary. You can elongate the pushrod slot yourself for 1.6 rockers with a 5/16" round rat tail file. Cut the file in half and use it in an electric drill.
Cuts suprisingly fast. Practice on your goodwrench heads.
It's not hard to do freehand. If you retain the factory machined slot in the heads as the pushrod guide you avoid needing to buy new hardened pushrods for use with guideplates.
You can use your stock pushrods.
Port your goodwrench heads and sell them to someone else.
There is no rocket science to porting common chevy heads.
They all pretty well need the same areas tweeked.
Don't worry about nicking the valve seat cause you're going to take them in for a new valve job anyways. You do not need or want a expensive race valve. The budget *1 piece* "PEP valves" are fine. use stock diameter hi perf replacement "no machining springs" but do have the guides re-lined and machined for positive seals and shortened for high lift. Use GM Vortec valve seals. They fit the stock valveguide top. But the top of the guide will need to be shortened for lift clearance. This vortec seal is a better seal.
(1996 GM L-31 truck 350vortec)
Do the dirty work your self and save. Don't over build your heads for this mild easy buildup.
Other wise you might as well just buy some new Protoplines,
and sell of the two pairs of heads you have.
The comp 987 springs are WAY more of a spring than nessessary for this valvetrain. For long cam life you want to only use enough spring pressure nessessary to control the valves and no more.
They are fine for a race motor or a solid cam or mild roller but not for you.
Get a spring with no more than 115 lbs seat pressure and 300 at high lift. Like Comp 981 or crane 99847.
Exessive spring pressure will cause premature cam and lifter wear. DO NOT OVER BUILD. It won't make your car faster. $$$You'll just replace cams more often.$$$
Any shop that quotes you $1000 to street port some camelbacks
probabily will do them wrong anyways.
You have two junk heads to practice on....
The ones on the motor now....
Thats 16 intake ports and 16 exhaust ports You'll be an expert after doing one each.
After that you can drill and install roll pins in your stud bosses.
This "stud pinning" is all thats nessessary. You can elongate the pushrod slot yourself for 1.6 rockers with a 5/16" round rat tail file. Cut the file in half and use it in an electric drill.
Cuts suprisingly fast. Practice on your goodwrench heads.
It's not hard to do freehand. If you retain the factory machined slot in the heads as the pushrod guide you avoid needing to buy new hardened pushrods for use with guideplates.
You can use your stock pushrods.
Port your goodwrench heads and sell them to someone else.
There is no rocket science to porting common chevy heads.
They all pretty well need the same areas tweeked.
Don't worry about nicking the valve seat cause you're going to take them in for a new valve job anyways. You do not need or want a expensive race valve. The budget *1 piece* "PEP valves" are fine. use stock diameter hi perf replacement "no machining springs" but do have the guides re-lined and machined for positive seals and shortened for high lift. Use GM Vortec valve seals. They fit the stock valveguide top. But the top of the guide will need to be shortened for lift clearance. This vortec seal is a better seal.
(1996 GM L-31 truck 350vortec)
Do the dirty work your self and save. Don't over build your heads for this mild easy buildup.
Other wise you might as well just buy some new Protoplines,
and sell of the two pairs of heads you have.
The comp 987 springs are WAY more of a spring than nessessary for this valvetrain. For long cam life you want to only use enough spring pressure nessessary to control the valves and no more.
They are fine for a race motor or a solid cam or mild roller but not for you.
Get a spring with no more than 115 lbs seat pressure and 300 at high lift. Like Comp 981 or crane 99847.
Exessive spring pressure will cause premature cam and lifter wear. DO NOT OVER BUILD. It won't make your car faster. $$$You'll just replace cams more often.$$$
Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 10-26-2003 at 12:34 PM.
10-26-2003, 07:11 PM
#10
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I would love to do the porting myself but I run into a problem.... this car is my daily driver.
To port the heads that are on the car, I would need to install the new heads as is... then port the old ones, swap them back so i can drive while i port the new ones... see my problem? =\
however thanks for the advice on the springs... I am seriously considering aftermarket heads now after looking at the prices of everything i need and an estimate of the machine work.
To port the heads that are on the car, I would need to install the new heads as is... then port the old ones, swap them back so i can drive while i port the new ones... see my problem? =\
however thanks for the advice on the springs... I am seriously considering aftermarket heads now after looking at the prices of everything i need and an estimate of the machine work.
10-26-2003, 08:33 PM
#11
Supreme Member
Originally posted by Daemorok
I would love to do the porting myself but I run into a problem.... this car is my daily driver.
To port the heads that are on the car, I would need to install the new heads as is... then port the old ones, swap them back so i can drive while i port the new ones... see my problem? =\
however thanks for the advice on the springs... I am seriously considering aftermarket heads now after looking at the prices of everything i need and an estimate of the machine work.
I would love to do the porting myself but I run into a problem.... this car is my daily driver.
To port the heads that are on the car, I would need to install the new heads as is... then port the old ones, swap them back so i can drive while i port the new ones... see my problem? =\
however thanks for the advice on the springs... I am seriously considering aftermarket heads now after looking at the prices of everything i need and an estimate of the machine work.
It all up to you... Anyone can make a ton of excuses y not this and that.
If you're not into doing some of it your self just go out and buy new heads.
its only money you'll get more....
10-26-2003, 11:19 PM
#12
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Trust me if i had heads to practice on i would, im not making "excuses", why would I go out and spend money on heads that im going to practice porting?
You want to send me some, go ahead.
You want to send me some, go ahead.
10-26-2003, 11:31 PM
#13
Supreme Member
Originally posted by Daemorok
Trust me if i had heads to practice on i would, im not making "excuses", why would I go out and spend money on heads that im going to practice porting?
You want to send me some, go ahead.
Trust me if i had heads to practice on i would, im not making "excuses", why would I go out and spend money on heads that im going to practice porting?
You want to send me some, go ahead.
Like i said, any old head will do.
There must be what?.... a gazillion chevy heads sittiing in junk yards all over North America.
I think you could get a hold of a old head yourself with a minor effort.
If you really want to go fast(er) you'll find a way.
If you're not into doing stuff yourself, no problem... just go buy new heads and pay someone else to F&^*&* it up for ya.
I just don't buy the excuses. I can't do this and I can't do that...... Seems some people are afraid to dig in and get a little dirty.
Some people aren't......
10-27-2003, 12:51 AM
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send me money to buy some of those junkyard heads...
get off your high horse already jesus...
why are you attacking me, anyway, what did i do?
everything I can do myself I do, providing i have the tools i need or i can purchase them for a reasonable price.. I dont know where you got the idea that I dont want to work on my car.
The only thing I will admit to here is that I am a tad uneducated about what I need to do to the heads and what parts complement each other etc.
If i had the money I would buy a daily driver, take my trans am off the road for a few months and rebuild everything I want too.. but i dont, so just cause i dont want to go out and buy something to practice on dont jump all over me. Like i said, you want to provide junk heads or money to buy junk heads let me know
get off your high horse already jesus...
why are you attacking me, anyway, what did i do?
everything I can do myself I do, providing i have the tools i need or i can purchase them for a reasonable price.. I dont know where you got the idea that I dont want to work on my car.
The only thing I will admit to here is that I am a tad uneducated about what I need to do to the heads and what parts complement each other etc.
If i had the money I would buy a daily driver, take my trans am off the road for a few months and rebuild everything I want too.. but i dont, so just cause i dont want to go out and buy something to practice on dont jump all over me. Like i said, you want to provide junk heads or money to buy junk heads let me know
10-27-2003, 08:21 PM
#15
Supreme Member
Originally posted by Daemorok
send me money to buy some of those junkyard heads...
get off your high horse already jesus...
why are you attacking me, anyway, what did i do?
everything I can do myself I do, providing i have the tools i need or i can purchase them for a reasonable price.. I dont know where you got the idea that I dont want to work on my car.
The only thing I will admit to here is that I am a tad uneducated about what I need to do to the heads and what parts complement each other etc.
If i had the money I would buy a daily driver, take my trans am off the road for a few months and rebuild everything I want too.. but i dont, so just cause i dont want to go out and buy something to practice on dont jump all over me. Like i said, you want to provide junk heads or money to buy junk heads let me know
send me money to buy some of those junkyard heads...
get off your high horse already jesus...
why are you attacking me, anyway, what did i do?
everything I can do myself I do, providing i have the tools i need or i can purchase them for a reasonable price.. I dont know where you got the idea that I dont want to work on my car.
The only thing I will admit to here is that I am a tad uneducated about what I need to do to the heads and what parts complement each other etc.
If i had the money I would buy a daily driver, take my trans am off the road for a few months and rebuild everything I want too.. but i dont, so just cause i dont want to go out and buy something to practice on dont jump all over me. Like i said, you want to provide junk heads or money to buy junk heads let me know
You've turned a technicial discussion into a canvas for money.
Sorry, not going to send you money LOL...... but the information,... is free. have a nice day.
Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 10-27-2003 at 08:25 PM.
10-27-2003, 09:20 PM
#17
O.K. Something went a little off-course here. Before we get too far out there, let's try it again.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The suggestion was good. If you decide to port your spare heads, call around in your spare time and see if there is a machine shop around that has even a cracked head (that's why they Magnaflux test them) that you could have for practice. If I were closer to NJ than I am, I'd give you a pair to practice on or even run while you port your "permanent" heads.
It's good that you are willing to port your own. Once you get into the first intake port and start studying/measuring, the problem areas should become fairly obvious. If you recalculate and decide to get aftermarkets instead of porting, that's fine, too. You can always sell the double-hump heads to recoup some of the cost.
Either way, since your car is your transportation, just plan to have everything completed and ready, then reserve a couple days to perform the swap. By the time the weekend is over, you should be ready to fly.
Just let us know if you decide to port the heads, and we can probably offer some tips. I've generally done my own, so I can't offer much in the way of price esstimates for machining.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The suggestion was good. If you decide to port your spare heads, call around in your spare time and see if there is a machine shop around that has even a cracked head (that's why they Magnaflux test them) that you could have for practice. If I were closer to NJ than I am, I'd give you a pair to practice on or even run while you port your "permanent" heads.
It's good that you are willing to port your own. Once you get into the first intake port and start studying/measuring, the problem areas should become fairly obvious. If you recalculate and decide to get aftermarkets instead of porting, that's fine, too. You can always sell the double-hump heads to recoup some of the cost.
Either way, since your car is your transportation, just plan to have everything completed and ready, then reserve a couple days to perform the swap. By the time the weekend is over, you should be ready to fly.
Just let us know if you decide to port the heads, and we can probably offer some tips. I've generally done my own, so I can't offer much in the way of price esstimates for machining.
10-27-2003, 10:54 PM
#18
Supreme Member
Originally posted by Daemorok
sure technical... you telling me that im basically too scared to port my own heads is technical... right
sure technical... you telling me that im basically too scared to port my own heads is technical... right
You can buy great books on the subject for $10-12 that will step you through it.
Any thing written by David Vizard is good.
Do an internet search.
There is also a ton of great info and pics here on this site.
You'll have to search for it though.
if you're unable to find a competant shop to machine and rebuild your heads properly for a reasonable prive you can always box them up and send them out to a Professional race engine shop like
Truppi/Kling
T/K High Performance inc.
133 RT 22 East
Greenbrook, NJ 08812
(732) 968-2030
http://www.truppi-kling.com
This shop is a professional race engine preparation shop that specialize in prepping these camel back heads (NHRA Superstock)
Probabily one of the top ten in North America.
If these guys want $1000 to fully prepare your heads,,, PAY IT!
I'd bet it will be less though. Yours is apretty routine job .
or http://www.kendrick-auto.com/
just for reference this head shown here is very simular to your heads.
http://www.kendrick-auto.com/462_chevy_head.htm
You can achieve, probabily exceed this flow improvement easily.
These heads were only mildly ported.
10-28-2003, 09:51 AM
#19
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Back on track... 
Just looking at prices, even if I did the porting myself, I still have other machining that needs to be done that I cant do, so I am still looking at a few hundred minimum for machine work.
Anyway, I guess I need to decide what aftermarket heads to get... One of my friends suggested edelbrock performer heads #60909. I have seen a lot of people on this board saying edelbrock heads arent anything special, and that they arent worth the money (only $500 each).
Someone in this thread suggested Pro Topline Iron Lightning, having trouble finding places that sell these. Also I would want to get them with springs that will take .525 lift and I was considering the Manley Street Flo valves. I havent gotten a price on these yet.
Another friend suggested Edelbrock E-tec heads but they seem to all be vortec style, he swears they come in a standard intake manifold pattern.. also they are $550 each for the 2.02/1.60 version, which has a 200cc intake runner... which if i remember correctly from some posts i have read here will be a little too much for my engine.
Any suggestions for other heads...?
This is pretty much the last thing im gonna do to this engine... well I might get another cam... maybe a comp 274 grind which is 487/490 lift and 230/236 duration at .050
Just looking at prices, even if I did the porting myself, I still have other machining that needs to be done that I cant do, so I am still looking at a few hundred minimum for machine work.
Anyway, I guess I need to decide what aftermarket heads to get... One of my friends suggested edelbrock performer heads #60909. I have seen a lot of people on this board saying edelbrock heads arent anything special, and that they arent worth the money (only $500 each).
Someone in this thread suggested Pro Topline Iron Lightning, having trouble finding places that sell these. Also I would want to get them with springs that will take .525 lift and I was considering the Manley Street Flo valves. I havent gotten a price on these yet.
Another friend suggested Edelbrock E-tec heads but they seem to all be vortec style, he swears they come in a standard intake manifold pattern.. also they are $550 each for the 2.02/1.60 version, which has a 200cc intake runner... which if i remember correctly from some posts i have read here will be a little too much for my engine.
Any suggestions for other heads...?
This is pretty much the last thing im gonna do to this engine... well I might get another cam... maybe a comp 274 grind which is 487/490 lift and 230/236 duration at .050
Last edited by Daemorok; 10-28-2003 at 11:03 AM.
10-28-2003, 09:56 AM
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Car: 4
Engine: 6
Transmission: 5
Vortec = a GM registered trademark that means "raised intake ports"
E-tec = an Edelbrock registered trademark that means the same thing
Therefore, E-tec = Vortec as far as intake requirements. Your friend is merely misinformed.
I had that cam for a while in a 400, it ran real good.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...AN%2D10750%2D8
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...AN%2D10765%2D8
Incidentally, the text in the intake description is wrong, but the pic is right; you can see the undercut stem in the pic. The exhaust description is correct.
E-tec = an Edelbrock registered trademark that means the same thing
Therefore, E-tec = Vortec as far as intake requirements. Your friend is merely misinformed.
I had that cam for a while in a 400, it ran real good.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...AN%2D10750%2D8
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...AN%2D10765%2D8
Incidentally, the text in the intake description is wrong, but the pic is right; you can see the undercut stem in the pic. The exhaust description is correct.
10-28-2003, 10:13 AM
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I forgot to mention that I have 1.6 rockers so if i get the comp 274 grind and i did my calculations right it will change the max lift to .520/.523 and if i keep my current cam (comp 262 grind) my lift will be .493/.500
10-28-2003, 09:23 PM
#22
If you're shopping for respectable prices on in-stock items, it might pay to look at Scoggin-Dickey www.sdpc2000.com I've found Stret Flo and Race-Flo valevs there for pretty good prices. They didn't have my Comp Cam in stock but Comp drop-shipped it to me in two days (900 miles). There are other good places, too, but SDPC seems to have good supplies of what they advertise.
10-28-2003, 11:55 PM
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I think i made my choice...
I emailed a guy that does ebay sales who was mentioned earlier in this thread.
I am getting Pro Topline Iron Lightning heads
180cc intake runner
64cc chamber
2.02/1.60 Manley pro flo valves
double springs good to .600 lift
For a really nice price
I was thinking about aluminum but that takes it over $1100 and I would like to save as much as i can
I emailed a guy that does ebay sales who was mentioned earlier in this thread.
I am getting Pro Topline Iron Lightning heads
180cc intake runner
64cc chamber
2.02/1.60 Manley pro flo valves
double springs good to .600 lift
For a really nice price
I was thinking about aluminum but that takes it over $1100 and I would like to save as much as i can
10-29-2003, 05:59 PM
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Car: 1996 Vette / 1992 GSX1100F Suzuki
Engine: 1996 Corvette Coupe 388 LT1 (+.060)
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: 3.07
Re: Head flow
Originally posted by Daemorok
I purchased a set of 3927186 camel hump heads on ebay a little while ago.
I was just wondering how much they will outflow the heads i have on my engine now a rough percentage estimate if anyone knows.
This is the engine i have, sorry i dont know the head casiting number:
http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...id=130&pid=383
I purchased a set of 3927186 camel hump heads on ebay a little while ago.
I was just wondering how much they will outflow the heads i have on my engine now a rough percentage estimate if anyone knows.
This is the engine i have, sorry i dont know the head casiting number:
http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...id=130&pid=383
You may be able to find the heads you're currently running there too.
Hope this helps.
Jake
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