jamesbob02

I really thought this would have been covered before but a search turned up nothing.

I'm looking to buy a new set of heads for my L98 and was initially going to get the AFR190s. However, I don't have to have the most expensive, absolutely best product.

Eventually, I will put a Stealthram and a moderate cam in it and I just wanted the heads for a good foundation. What are some good alternatives to AFR190 or 195's that dont cost as much?

I know the old addage - cheap/fast/good, pick two. I'm not asking for AFR190 performance for the half the price, just a cheaper alternative with similar performance. What should I look into? Thanks.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Do you have to have aluminum, or it doesn't really matter?

Why not have you're original heads worked on by a pro.... enlarge the valves, cut, port, polish etc.

It's kind of costly.... but nowhere near the cost of new aluminum heads.

BTW nice car!

jamesbob02

Honestly I don't know what difference aluminum makes. I really just want to replace mine so I wont have much downtime. Also, I just kind of want a clean slate with some good springs, valves, studs, etc, instead of having to do all that work on my current ones. Thanks for the nice car comment!

stuart

try the vortecs.....youll have to change intakes and sdpc is the only one i know of that makes one for the tpi...i have this setup and i cant wait to see how much its improved the performance......i hope im not dissapointed

jamesbob02

Ok, which Vortec's, and what is SDPC. Is it a TPI intake with different bolt pattern?

stuart

sdpc is scoggins dickey parts center...edelbrock makes this intake for them and its based on the vortec design bolt pattern...(4 bolts on each side of the intake)..the heads you can get from jegs like i did, they are supposed to flow better than any stock head and from what i hear most of the aftermarket ones, and their cheap too. $250.00 bucks apiece....complete!!!!! everyone says i wont be disapointed......and i hope not...........

stuart

another one showing intake........

jamesbob02

Specifically, what vortec heads am I looking for? Thanks.

stuart

the ones i ordered were gm performance parts vortec heads...when i ordered mine there was only 2 part #s..one for cast iron and one for the alunimum...cast iron is 64cc while the alunimum was 62cc....i got the cast iron ones and had them ported and polished...cast iron part #(809-12558060)...aluminum part # is (809-12464298)......these heads were factory production on trucks and some cars i think..they are just a better design than other factory heads, and they are the best bang for the buck as far as heads go.. and flow so much better...i hope this helps........

SweetS10v8

If your looking for new heads, and want to know info on all of them then this is a must read!!!!

Head comparison

Read this over and you will find your answers, Ive read it so many times I almost have it memorized... This is what made me decide to go with my new heads for my old S-10.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Vortecs were never used on factory production cars, just trucks.

The comparisons by CHP were done on out-of-the-box heads. With pocket porting, gasket matching, and general blending & smoothing, the numbers would be quite different.

The $225 Vortecs cannot handle more than .480" lift. Look at the flow #'s in the charts and see what that gets you. Before you decide on those heads, find out what the machining costs will be for guide cutting (okay, you can do that yourself with an inexpensive tool), spring seat cutting (ditto), screw-in rocker studs (or at least pinning the stock press-in things) on those "inexpensive heads". Plus new valve springs & seals. Don't forget the cost of the Vortec base (only available from SDPC). Also remember SD had to use aftermarket runners and a Hot Cam w/1.6 rockers to produce the power #'s with that TPI base that the carb'd 350 HO puts out out of the box.

The best bang-for-buck deal out there now appears to be Pro Topline heads. They have several versions, including those that won't require you to spend $400+ on a unique base.

Or, find a set of used L98 heads and have them worked over as suggested and ready to install when you are ready to do the deed.

gmgod

Pro topline iron lightning 180's @ Proshaver.

johnsjj2

Although I have sworn by my Vortecs, and Vortecs in general, when I get a new set they will be the Pro Toplines. For the money they are asking for them, and the numbers they put out, its hard to beat those heads.

Morley

If you are set on Alum heads I would suggest Trick Flows, for the money (under $1k) they are a good deal and will add some real power to your engine (not to mention detonation resistance)

bowtiepower00

Here's another vote for Pro-Topline. They also make some stock replacement heads with 167cc runners and vortec style chambers that flow a little better than the vortecs. The price is comparable to the vortecs, and they are available with early or late style intake faces and 64 or 76cc chambers.

377Z

iTrader: (1)

Where? I was under this impression too but couldn't find them--the only heart-shaped chamber heads were the vortecs (with vortec intake bolt pattern only). If they don't I'll be dissappointed--I would've figured if a company went to all the trouble to cast vortec style heads they would have the sense to modify the casting a bit to allow for the older 12 bolt intake pattern, as well as addressing the other shortcomings.

ME Leigh

They did address and solve many of the problems with the Vortec head. THe Pro Vortecs are vastly superior to anything GM ever made.

http://www.protopline.com/2236494906.asp

Sitting Bull

Or you can just port and polish your stock heads. But that's way cheaper than the other options ...

Follow the link at the end of my sig.

robertg

iTrader: (2)

i paid $315 for my 416 castings that have the following....

1.94 intake/1.5 exhausts
screw-in studs
valve springs good to .530" lift

they need ported, but i want to have them flowed before i have the ported, to see how much the 1.94 upgrade helped.

i plan on putting these heads on a 350 eventually.

here's a pic fresh from the machine shop.

8Mike9

I don't think so, maybe you have manufactures confused?

I emailed a PT distributor and none of the PT heads had an exhaust crossover...i/e, not a replacement head, IMO.

Then again, I'm still Ca. dreamin'

mikobu3

i got a price for getting bigger 1.94 valves put in to my 86 416 heads , they want 120 can each head , now i only got 27,000 original miles on these 416 heads , so what can i do to make thes heads flow a little better , port the intake , and exhaust , up to gasket , polish exhaust side ,

anyone
thanks

Matt87GTA

Baaaahhh.. Just spend some dough on a crazy set of heads and be done with it for good....

Brodix 215cc CNC Track 1s:



Course..... I could be biased...... a little .

377Z

iTrader: (1)

Well, my point is that the Pro Topline Vortec replacement heads may indeed be better than GM originals, but they are listed as having the 8 bolt '96-later intake bolt pattern. I don't see why they didn't make their castings available with the pre-96 12 bolt intake pattern as well--I mean, they're THEIR castings, they can do whatever they want.

The only reason I see that they wouldn't want to do this is they may cut into their own business, since this head (at $463/pair) would then become a better choice for some of the people looking at their other, more expensive heads (like the iron lightnings).

377Z

iTrader: (1)

I just noticed something thats weird--looking at their stock replacement heads they list the 223 6494 906 (the vortec replacement) chamber style as a "non vortex heart shape" and all the others as "vortec D chamber." What the heck is that? I get the impression that they're just throwing in some buzzwords there.

Check it out:

http://www.protopline.com/2237694217.asp

RB83L69

There's more to the "Vortec" buzzword than the bolt pattern, or the combustion chamber shape.

"Vortec" is merely GM-speak for "we moved the intake ports".

The thing that actually makes them work is their intake port location. The intake ports are moved upwards on the head flange by a good ¼", maybe more, depending on what old-design heads you are comparing them to; that's why they flow so good even in stock form, is because they make so much more of a straight shot into the cyl. It wouldn't matter how many bolts Pro Topline put into their flange, if the ports are "Vortec", then they're in a different place, and you need an intake with its ports located to match. If they didn't move the ports, then the heads wouldn't be "Vortec". It's just that simple.

The combustion chamber shape is just a small add-on to the overall efficiency of the heads, it doesn't make a set of heads "Vortec" or not, and is only a marginal change anyway. The meat of the "Vortec" matter is the relocated intake ports. Same for the number of bolt holes.

377Z

iTrader: (1)

So basically it would be pointless for them to add the earlier bolt pattern, I see now.

It sucks that they look so good at first blush, but it turns out that its a better deal to just get a proper set and not have to deal with all the other issues.

robertg

iTrader: (2)

$120 canadian? what does that equate to in us dollars?

by the time i priced new valves, checking the heads for cracks, and prepping for screw-in studs, i was over $400 in machine work on heads.

so i went the already done route, and traded in my old heads. going to put the above heads on a roller cammed 350

laiky

there is no Holley Stealth Ram that will bolt to the Vortec heads!