daddy33

iTrader: (5)

im working on my 350 as i speak and still looking for the perfect heads,intake and carb setup. I was think going all vortec, or use a tunnel ram to get some massive power. If i put on a tunnel ram will it fit under my 4 3/4 inch cowl hood? would tunnel ram be the best way to get the most power? i want the engine to be N/A so NOS and all the other stuff is probably out. Anyways im looking for the best combo set (heads,intake,carb) to put on my 350. (by the way, the block just got out of the shop with .040 bore new rotating kit with keith black pistons, high performance cam, grounded out crank, etc..)

Any input i greatly appreciate, thanks guys

8Mike9

Keep in mind that Tunnel Rams begin to flow well in the 3000/4000 range...so choose heads and cam appropriately..as well on plann to change the rear gears to accomodate.

What shop did the work for you?

Air_Adam

A tunnel ram will really murder your low end power. It will have to idle at 1500rpm probably just to keep spining.

daddy33

iTrader: (5)

modesto engine re-nu did the engine work to the shortblock. I have a posi with 3.73 gears. So the tunnel ram will murder my low end power will i just be better off getting a vortec setup such as the high rise intake and all that stuff? im looking for power from off idle to 5500 rpm or from 1500-6500 rpm. which setup should i go for?

19doug90

Question....if you had a power band that ran from 2000-6500 would it be possible to keep the idle somewhere in a relatively same place. Because then your car might not be the greatest performer for cruising but whenever you want to turn it on (especially if you have a manual) you can just keep your rpms above 2 grand? Any flaws with that plan?

8Mike9

Too numerous to mention

8Mike9

Question for you, is this going into a 3rdgen? What year?

daddy33

iTrader: (5)

see i thought of the same thing but i was thinking that if i set my idle around 2000 rpm then wouldnt it "diesel" out when i try to shut it off? im not sure, im not no expert. By the way i have an automatic also. If there isnt going to be any problems setting it around 2000 then i would like to have my power band from 2000-6500. yes, this engine would be going into my '85 camaro

8Mike9

Okay...let's look at a few things.

Idle at 2K....You'll need a very large stall converter to even try to accomplish this...even so...you'll be generating very much heat in the tranny, it'll be short lived...unless this is purely a track car.

Second...drive around something in low gear at 2K...you'll always be on the brakes...going through them faster than tranny's.

Third, since the throttle blades will alays be open, you'll have no idle a/f mixture control on the carb.

Fourth, since you'll have the blades so far open, staring will be tough, and shutting down will be a dieseling experience.


There's probably other things too, but put the thought out of your mind, it isn't going to accomplish what you're after.

Even with a large cam, big heads and TRam, you'll be able to make the engine idle in a usable range..the "dead spot" is overcome when racing with a big stall converter and the low geared rear.

Now, problem for you is if you're really intent on building such a motor, you'll never pass smog...I'm 99.9% sure there is no CARB exempt TunnelRam made for one thing.

You also have to be concerned with doing away with factory emissions stuff...carb, ignition, etc, that was originally ECM controlled.

You should be able to build 300-350hp, pass emissions (visual and functional) and have a stout engine and fun car to drive, using stuff (read emissions) that have to be in place.

Again, I'm assuming you are going to tag the car and run it on the street.

daddy33

iTrader: (5)

ok well i guess im out with the tunnel ram then, i never knew that there would be so much more to it. beside im not too worried about smog. so will my best bet be going to a vortec setup? the 350 block is bored .040, has a high performance cam (forgot the specs,and has keith black pistons which will make 9.5:1 with 64cc. I will like to accomplish around 375HP and im not too sure what i need to get to that mark.......

8Mike9

Well again, Vortec heads have no exhaust crossover, so conventional EGR won't work...but since you're not worried about smog, I guess it won't matter.

You need to list your cam spec's, if you have enough cam to make that HP with Vortec heads, most likely they'll need to be machined to accept the lift...I'd suggest Reddick Brothers in Modesto, Cal's in Oakdale. There's also a real good shop on 9th, but the name escapes me right now.

The Vortec are 62cc?? IIRC, so CR will be a bit higher, either shop can take a few CC's out of each chamber to lower the CR.

You'll be limited in intakes for the heads, so shop ahead and see what's out there first.

Figure after buying Vortec's (assume new..so no cost to rebuild, ect) machine work for the cam, new springs, etc...your approaching a set of aftermarket heads, maybe exceeding the cost.

daddy33

iTrader: (5)

so basically mike what you're trying to say it that im better off buying a good set of aftermarket heads? ill try to get the specs of the cam tomorrow and let you know. the whole shortblock is already assembled, im going to pick it up on friday. The pair of vortec heads im looking at are brand new GM L-31 vortec heads with 170cc intake runners, 1.94x1.50 intake/exhaust, and 64cc chambers.

There is another set of vortec head that have 2.06/1.60 valves, springs good up to .510 lift and are 64cc chambers. Im not sure what the intake runner size is but the casting # is 12558062.

For the pair of heads w/ shipping and everything is around $615 and they are brank new.

I've seen some vortec intakes around so im not too woried about that but like you said they don't have the EGR.

Is it best i go Vortec or a different setup?

8Mike9

Well, if you want any hope of pulling into any smog shop and passing every two years, forget the Vortecs...I know there's always someone around that can get a certificate, but it's harder and harder, and cost more and more.

That said, if you stick with the Vortecs, you'll wnat to get the price of the ones that accept the higher lift cam and better springs, etc.

Dart has a head (180cc, IIRC) with egr crossover, should be comparable to the Vortecs, maybe better, through Summit, Jegs, etc, for around 750-800 delivered, fuly assembled and ready to go...jst as an example...World Products also has some performance heads that have exhaust crossovers, for a few bucks less, there's also a few more manufactures as well.

Things is, with the conventional intakes, your choices grow quite abit..i/e you use an EGR intake for smog, change it in a few short hours to a non-egr intake you want to run...much easier than swapping heads back and forth to pass smog every two years...ofcourse I'm not advocating this.

daddy33

iTrader: (5)

ok i just talked to the shop today and they said that the cam that they'll put in is a .480 or 4.90 lift (i forgot which one). also has the keith black dish top pistons which he said will make 9.5:1 with 64cc heads. i looked on summit also like you said and i might just save up a little long and buy the world products heads that they have. If not then i will get some other good flowing heads with 64cc. you think i will get around 350-375 HP?

daddy33

iTrader: (5)

oh by the way, i know this has nothing to do with the topic but i was told that it would help out if i got a 1800 or 2000 stall convertor. I heard of them but not sure what they exactly do. What does it do and how does it help out????

8Mike9

Re: The stall convertor...This will allow your engine to "stall" at a given RPM..dependant on many factors, not just the "rating" of the convertor.

1800-2000 is too close to stock in all reality to make much of a difference. Can you get the full numbers for your cam from them? They should be able to provide a cam card...at a minimum the .050 dur numbers...I'm assuming this is not a Hyd-roller cam?

Anyways, there's some other things you need to consider as well...have you decided to go for emissions legal, or not?

daddy33

iTrader: (5)

well i was looking at summit and was thiking about either getting their world products II iron heads or their pro topline pro lightning heads. both have 200cc intake runners and 64cc chambers. both for about $830. As for smog ill probably get a intake with a EGR for when it comes to smog it then when i dont have to ill put a different one on.

8Mike9

The ProToplines don't have exhaust crossover, so EGR won't function...and won't pass funtional test.

Did you look at the Darts?

daddy33

iTrader: (5)

i looked at the darts and they did look pretty good but they were a little more expensive and $850 is already gonna take me a little while to save up. I've got school coming up so now im going to part-time so i wont be making as much $$$. I just might end up getting those world product heads and get a high rise rpm intake, and of course an intake that will take the EGR as well.