i know, i know.... im a goddarn idiot. Just bare with it. remember, insanity borderlines genious. : )

Anyways..... Open element air cleaners... they help a carbed engine, yes? So what if you were to try and open up that plastic casing that the filter is in, on a MAF TPI setup, stock 88.... Think it would work? I know there is a problem with air getting in around the filter, so whats the sitch?

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1988 Formula, 305TPI, 700r4(for now), headers, stage 2 PROM, modded MAF, cat back, no catalytics, cowl hood, centerline champ 500 rims, KOBEL predator ground effects kit, Trans AM tailights, dash pouch, 92 shift console w/indicator, white face gauges, accented red trim, 12 speaker stereo, 4 amps, tint, T tops... icq 44373460 AIM:admrlam
see it at www.geocities.com/admrlam/bird.html

 

Lots of people so it, however the jury is still out as to whether the hot air it then sucks in helps or hinders engine efficiency.

 

But what about the air sneaking in around the filter.... does it do this if you open up that box? ANyone have any pictures? ANyone with numbers or experiences if good or bad things happening?

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1988 Formula, 305TPI, 700r4(for now), headers, stage 2 PROM, modded MAF, cat back, no catalytics, cowl hood, centerline champ 500 rims, KOBEL predator ground effects kit, Trans AM tailights, dash pouch, 92 shift console w/indicator, white face gauges, accented red trim, 12 speaker stereo, 4 amps, tint, T tops... icq 44373460 AIM:admrlam
see it at www.geocities.com/admrlam/bird.html

 

Your TB flows less than your intake ducting can, so by taking out that "impediment" that doesn't actually impede airflow isn't helping you at all. I've driven cars with retrofit TPI setups on them from Howell and S&P with open elements, and they mainly use them for packaging purposes. They whistle a lot, they suck hot air from the engine bay, and they really do nothing else but suck in my opinion. Get a high flow filter for your stock ducting, or get an SLP intake.

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-Jason M. 1991 Camaro Z28
"Allow me to introduce myself my name is Mud."

 

Sounds good then, ill just leave it. I just wondered, seeing as how it helps the carbers, and how the SD setups didnt hjave them, they just had filter to TB, i figured maybe the restriction was holdin me back...

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1988 Formula, 305TPI, 700r4(for now), headers, stage 2 PROM, modded MAF, cat back, no catalytics, cowl hood, centerline champ 500 rims, KOBEL predator ground effects kit, Trans AM tailights, dash pouch, 92 shift console w/indicator, white face gauges, accented red trim, 12 speaker stereo, 4 amps, tint, T tops... icq 44373460 AIM:admrlam
see it at www.geocities.com/admrlam/bird.html

 

Jason,

You are correct, for the most part. 1985 and '86 models with the "garbage can" filter housing can benfit by modification and can be made to draw cold air instead of heated air. On those models, the filter housing design is restrictive, but there are a couple of tricks to get around the problem:

Airflow.pdf

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Later,
Vader
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"Make Me Bad"
Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.0

 

The air path on the early EFI and Port firebirds sucks. Even on my 2.8 I realized extremely noticable gains by replacing ONLY the plastic puzzle piece that went from the MAF to the throttle body. I replaced it with 3" flexible dryer-type hose that I bought at Pep Boys. It made an extremely noticable difference in the whole rpm range as well as gave the car a better sound. I think that although it didn't necessarily flow a lot better, the airflow was substantially less disturbed so that the motor got a more even flow with higher velocity.

On camaros, just cut the bottom side of the airbox and run the tryer hose from behind the fog lights.

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The IROC Homepage
<A HREF="http://www.rit.edu/~jli4307/camaro" TARGET=_blank>
View the restoration of an 85 IROC</A>
"I didn't know a bored out Ford could go so slow" -Shenandoah

 

The later style of airbox (which, admrlam, I don't think you have) sucked dirty air in through the side, and clean air in thru the top. Holes could be drilled in the side of the airbox with no problem.

The earlier style (with a square plastic lid) sucked dirty air in thru the TOP, and clean air thru the side. Drilling holes in the side will bypass the filter completely.

When I had my stock early-style box, I took the lid off, and underneath, there's a 1 inch by 6 inch (guessing) rectangular duct that the dirty air comes into. I took my trusty pliers to it, and cracked it "up" and off, to leave the whole top front of the lid "open" to dirty air.


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards

 

Tom, im a little confused about the two airboxes you meant, and which one i have... Its a circular container, behind my passenger headlight. I dont see any box or rectangle though... its a 1988. ANd sorry, could you clarify? are you saying it would or it would not help?

Thanks

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1988 Formula, 305TPI, 700r4(for now), headers, stage 2 PROM, modded MAF, cat back, no catalytics, cowl hood, centerline champ 500 rims, KOBEL predator ground effects kit, Trans AM tailights, dash pouch, 92 shift console w/indicator, white face gauges, accented red trim, 12 speaker stereo, 4 amps, tint, T tops... icq 44373460 AIM:admrlam
see it at www.geocities.com/admrlam/bird.html

 

last call.... anyone got anything to add? please? pretty please? pretty please with cut up airbox on top?

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1988 Formula, 305TPI, 700r4(for now), headers, stage 2 PROM, modded MAF, cat back, no catalytics, cowl hood, centerline champ 500 rims, KOBEL predator ground effects kit, Trans AM tailights, dash pouch, 92 shift console w/indicator, white face gauges, accented red trim, 12 speaker stereo, 4 amps, tint, T tops... icq 44373460 AIM:admrlam
see it at www.geocities.com/admrlam/bird.html

 

Admrlam,

It sounds like you have the steel "garbage can" air cleaner. Check the link I posted above to see if yours looks like that...

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Later,
Vader
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"Make Me Bad"
Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.0

 

You guys are talking about two different cars. The Camaro air box is located behing the "grille", and the intake comes through a plastic funnel over the top of the radiator. The Firebirds intake turns @ 90*
between the maf and the radiator and goes to the air cleaner behind the left headlight.

 

While injected cars benefit from cold air, I have heard carbed engines need air to be slightly warm at least. Something to do better fuel atomization. For the same reason carbed engines also need turbulence inside the intake manifold. The turbulent air keeps the fuel particles suspended in the air preventing it from puddling in the manifold.

On the hand, fuel injected vehicles, TPI and MPFI to be precise, can reap the benefits of cold air induction because fuel and air don't mix until they get inside the cylinder.

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'88 IROC 305 TPI
Gutted airboxes
160 degree T-stat
Advanced base TPS voltage
Relocated IAT sensor
Momo steering wheel
Ram-air setup coming soon
Flowmaster muffler

 

Actually all wet manifold applications require some heat under the plenum during cold starts to keep the fuel less dense than the air. Otherwise the fuel would "get together" and drop to the floor of the plenum/runners. This is becuase the airflow (inside cold metal) is very slow (lower vacuum created, hence the choke) until the block, intake, and heads "warm up".

This is what improves (or should I say keeps) fuel atomization in ANY indunction system (wet or dry).

All engines benifit from cold air. But did you know that the fuel in the runner actually helps cool the intake air? That is why carbs make better HP than FI. (I'm not talking TPI vs. Carb either)

And I believe Russ is right, some of you are thinking Firebird intake and others Camaro intake. They are very different.

[This message has been edited by MRZ28HO (edited October 05, 2000).]

 

Okay, then to clarify, im talking about a PONTIAC FIREBIRD intake. The one that has the 90 degree turn and goes to the passanger side headlight. I read vaders article on punching those holes in the base, is that all you can do for it? I mean, if there is nothing to be done to help it, thats fine, and just curious is all. : )

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1988 Formula, 305TPI, 700r4(for now), headers, stage 2 PROM, modded MAF, cat back, no catalytics, cowl hood, centerline champ 500 rims, KOBEL predator ground effects kit, Trans AM tailights, dash pouch, 92 shift console w/indicator, white face gauges, accented red trim, 12 speaker stereo, 4 amps, tint, T tops... icq 44373460 AIM:admrlam
see it at www.geocities.com/admrlam/bird.html

 

well, guys, im incredibly happy,
ive made afriend, i dropped off one of my chickas, and i met her bro, who had allot of fourth gen friends, (yes i know)
well, he told me to flip the lid upside down... fliping the lid on your garbage can filter container, will give you an inch of space, no use for filter, but QUITE nice for intake, hehehehhehe, gonna werk till i get new hood, or intake thingamerbobber on hood
its a 91 with a steel hodd, should i add on a hood intake, or buy new hood? thanx fer feedback

 

ADM,

You can install a K&N E-0890 filter element in the can to maintain reasonable air flow through the life of the filter. Beyond that, the "garbage can" lives up to it's name.

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Later,
Vader
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"Make Me Bad"
Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.0