N.W. WS6

Waz Up Fellaz,I'm going to build a new motor for my 87 WS7 T/A this fall and now it's time to decide on cubic inches.The 383 sounds good but the 396 sounds even better.Callies and Lunati both make 396 rotating assemblies that are top notch.I plan on toping things off with some AFR 195 heads along with a Superram or Miniram.How does this combo sound? Besides the rearend and driveline what other part will I have to upgrade........Thanks

N.W. WS6

Type O WS6 T/A

N.W. WS6

Type O WS6 T/A

evilho7810

Go with the 396. Same cost right? Why not have a few more cubes. And then when you kick someones *** in a race tell them it's a 305 and laugh at them. The trans and rear end will go fast if you you slicks. Get a lentech or art carr 700r4. If you want a stick get a t-56 out of a 4th gen.

N.W. WS6

396 Does sound a little better doesn't it.I just done the T 56 swap a few months ago.Ive got most of the suspension stuff,now it's time for some cubic inches.......thanks

evilho7810

Hey how hard was the swap? Did you start with a 5speed or an auto?

N.W. WS6

396 Does sound a little better doesn't it.I just done the T 56 swap a few months ago.Ive got most of the suspension stuff,now it's time for some cubic inches.......thanks

N.W. WS6

I had a local shop do the swap.They said it was a peice of cake,only cost 350 bucks.I got the tranny and a few other parts from a wrecked 94 Z28 The only major cost was the centerforce dual friction clutch.The car had an 700R4 in it.There are a few articles on this site that covers the swap in detail.The 1st. to 2nd shift is a real rush.....

evilho7810

Can you give me a list of the parts you took off the car I really want a 6-speed. My car is an auto right now. How does the console look? I hear you have to trim it back 2 inches.

Kevin S

Man, you think it's hard now trying to get your hands anywhere around your engine.Wait untill you drop that bigblock in.
If I was the one doing this I would probably go with the 383.I'm not saying I wouldn't drop in a 396.Hell, if I had a 396 you bet your a$$ it would be between the fenders.
What I'm getting at is the 396 is a big block engine.That means it has gobbs of torque and horsepower,but it also weighs more then the 383.And the 383 will be easy'r to drop in then the 396 will be.
But if your in no hurry and don't give a rats a$$ about the weight difference.Then go with the 396.Especially if the price's are similar.
Nothing beats cubic inches then more cubic inches.

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Kevin S
10.9 @ 62.87 (1/8 mile)
89 RS 2.8(bored .030)
B&M shift Improver
B&M Mega Shifter
Perma Cool trans cooler
Accel Wires,
Ignition module,
Super coil
Streetrunner chip(for now)
Flowmaster
1.52 Roller rockers

I remember learning to drive on my dad's lap. Did you guys
ever do that? He'd work the brakes. I'd work the wheel. Then
I went to take the driver's test and sat on the examiner's. I
failed the exam. But he still writes to me. That's the really
nice part.
-- Garry Shandling

Daz

iTrader: (1)

I think he meant 350 stroked to 396.

Daz

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

yeah, what Daz said

Box of Rocks

WS,
Before you jump into a 396 stroker motor, you may want to do some in-depth research beforehand.
Eric from this page faxed me an article from one of the hotrod mags on a comprehensive 396 build.

I too was smitten by the thought of those "free" extra 13 cubes. It turns out that the 396 is MUCH, MUCH more difficult to build - for two major reasons :

1) Clearances on the cam/rod combo necessitate using a small base-circle cam and also grinding the rod bolts....
2)Block interference at the bottom end of the motor. It requires an extra foray to the machine shop - and it ain't cheap. Then, there is the balancing issue.....

The buildup I saw came to a crisis point - and you will come to it too. It's this: you will have to decide to use cheapo, low quality parts in order to save on a very expensive re-balance, or, bite the bullet, spend the dough for good quality pistons and rods, and eat the added expense of a gob of Mallory metal.

I'd stick to the 383 with a 5.7 rod, scat crank, and Lunati streetrace rods (or GM powered metal) if I were doing a budget stroker.

Personally, I went for the cubes - by purchasing a used 400 small block. They're a different animal too.

I suggest doing the research before buying any parts - it will save you $$. Good luck !


BOR

N.W. WS6

Hey Evilho,You'll need the tranny and bellhousing and all the hydralics and pedals,even tho pedals from a third gen will work also.You'll need a fabricated tranny cross member,I got mine from www.skulte.com for 150.Look in the Faq section for the articles I mention eariler.....good luck....Also Box of rocks,there is an article in the January 2000 issue of GM High Preformance tech called operation Thunder Chicken that they do a 396 stroker with Callies parts.Looks like a little more machine work but the whole thing is internally balanced with special rods and pistons from Callies.I talked to a guy at Callies he said I can get the rotating assembly for $ 2700,yea its more than a 383 but more cubes and quailty parts.......later

IROCracer

I'm not sure who was asking about that T56 swap, but don't pay any attention to the sites that give you all of those wonderful directions. I printed out directions from MacEwen and that Creighton Trull guy's websites, and threw both sets away within an hour of starting the swap. Oh I was pissed.

If you're serious about this swap...anyone. Email me BEFORE you start it. I can tell you things to look out for along the way that just aren't covered in those other directions.

Kelly

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If you've gotta fix it, fix it better than stock.

Box of Rocks

Net Worth,

Well, that proves my point. $2,700 for a reciprocating assembly on a 396 versus $1,600 for Oliver 4340 H-beams, Speed Pro forged pistons, and a 4340 crank that is new.

That is $1,000 for 13 cubic inches. Maybe 20 HP and 20 ft. lbs. ?

Not such a great investment IMHO. However, if money is no object and trick is what you want, well......the 396 small block is it.

Still, the 406 for the same $1,600 - $1,700 is 10 cu. in. bigger, $1,000 less, and worth 10 HP and 15 lb. ft.

So, I'll build the 406. To each his own.


BOR

evilho7810

Did you have to get a custom drive shaft? Cause I can get an aluminum one out of a third gen cheap and would like to use it with the t-56.

89ROC

evilho7810-NO you don't need a custom driveshaft. I also did the T-56 swap, and didn't use any *tech articles* or instructions. I just figured it out as I went along. IMO-MacEwen's tech article is great! I did basically the same thing, EXCEPT he did several *un-necessary* steps.

As for the 383-396-400 issue, I'd choose the 400. I have been debating this for a long time and came to the colclusion that the 400 is the best. I'm NOT talking about the old-school 400's. I'm talking about the new Bow-tie blocks. They can be had is almost any displacement. The 4.125" * 3.75" stroke is the 400. These blocks use the late-model 1-piece rear main seal crankshaft--so it WILL bolt up to the T-56.

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89' Iroc-Z
ZZ3 short block-355 TPI ZZ9 cam
NOS 150 shot.
blah...blah...blah..
95' T-56, 6-speed
99' Z' rearend w/ 4.10's
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1997 black Trans AM
A4, bone stock except for the Flowmaster.

The crazy fool racer of the UNfamous SW crew.

paul_huryk

Box of Rocks is right in the clearance dept, it will have to be done correctly in a std deck ht block.

The 3.75" and 3.875" 4340 steel cranks are about the same, as are the 6.0" and 5.85" 4340 steel rods, the 396 pistons are probably a tad more, maybe $200 more vs the 383, not unreasonable.

The only bad thing other than the clearace problems with a 396 is the fact that the rod-stroke ratio is worse 5.85" rod with a 3.875" stroke vs a 6" rod and 3.75" stroke. On a street engine, its no big deal, but in an all-out race motor it is a disadvantage.

Speaking of cubic inches, why not stick a 3.875" crank in a 400 block, netting 420 cubic inches, 37 more than a 383, with a better valve unshrouding also.

------------------
Paul Huryk, billionare in training.
Monkey Guy Racing
Almost part of the moderately infamous NJ in-your-face all goomba crew

Do it right the first time.

Paul's home page

1985 IROC LG4 POS Best: 15.20s at 92.1mph
1984 Camaro 350 LG4 Best: 12.21s at 121.7mph

The smart person pays for something today so that more is received tomorrow.
The ignorant person gets something today and hopes to have enough money to pay for it tomorrow.

Tom Keliher

Umm.... your bank account?


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FORMULA 350 TK
Southern California 3rd Generation F-Body OrganizationŠ

N.W. WS6

Hey Tom K.,Thats all to true :-)The account gets refreshed to the some of $ 1300 every two weeks.From one of the eariler post about the 1 peice rear main bowtie 400 blocks,who's got them and how much.....later

Box of Rocks

Paul,

Well, I hope this is not screwing up this thread, but it seems related to the original issue, so I'll pop the information up.

I looked into a 3.875 crank, since I already have the 400 SBC block. Crower makes one.... for $2095. Or, you can get an offset-ground 5140 from PAW (quality?)

The 3.875 crank, when coupled with a 6" rod would make for a 1.55 Rod/Stroke ratio - which is fine. So, the problems are:

-The cost of a good 3.875 crank

-The impingement into the piston-pin area of the 6.0" rod - does anyone make a 6" rod and piston combo for a 3.75" or 3.875" crank that DOES NOT have the bottom oil control ring cutting into the pin area? If so, is it a 1/16" ring package, or the standard 5/64?

Presuming these issues could be resolved, what about balancing this combo?

I'm working on a $5,000 budget for this motor, which will include about $1,500 for the heads alone - so you can see my dilema.

You 'da man when it comes to this stuff, so any feedback will be appreciated. It seems to me that going from the good old standard 406 to the 420 Cu. in. is a fairly stout budget buster - if not a reliability buster when it comes to the 6" rod-piston-pin-ring question.

BOR

brockrodgers

I hope you plan on putting subframe connectors on. Another thing you might want to decide before making the engine swap is what type of intake/ carb or tpi? There are EFI systems avaible too. With a 383 I'm sure gas milage isn't a concern so I would keep it smiple and easy. I like the idea that a 383 can look like a 305 that is what I tell most everybody about my 327.

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'84 Camaro 327ci Bored .030 over w/ 5.7" stroke. 3.73 geared Auburn Limited Slip Diff. FlowMaster Muffler w/ Shortie Headers. TH-350 Built Trany Underneath B&M Mega-Shifter. Many Engine compartment Dress Up Mods. Edelbrock High Flow Water Pump w/ Flex-a-Lite Cooling Fan.