Arctic White 91 RS

I would appreciate input on the following:
Is the Caprice (B-Body) 91-93 TBI engine advertised in the magazines a good performance swap?

The engine has LT-4 PM rods, 9.6 compression, a roller cam and sells for $1480 new. I've heard rumors it's good for 250hp as is.

Does any one have additional informations about this motor?

Are the heads decent? Or are the the same sucky "swirl-port" heads the LO3 has?

What are the cam specs?

My idea is to use a roller 350 like the one listed above, switch to in good high performance cam that can idle and have decent vaccum, SLP headers 1 3/4 inch, Holley 670 TBI, intake, new cat, new 02 sensor, new knock sensor, and flowmaster exhaust.

I want 300 horsepower and a very simple swap. I've thought about using a Turbo City TBI and 4 barrel dual plane intake instead.

Does this combo look like I'm on the right track or do I need to rethink it?

This is what it looks like it's going to cost. Am I missing something?

Crate 350 $1480
SLP headers $ 350
custom chip $ 200
new 02 sensor $ 80
new knock sensor $ 80
hi/po roller cam $ 150
Holley TBI $ 300
Holley intake $ 150
new cat $ 125
flowmaster exhaust $ 275
misc. plugs/wires etc $ 125
-----
$3215
Mechanic's Labor for
doing this. $ 400
-----
$3615

Ray87Z

I'd look at the 330hp Vortec motor and run a Performer to fit w/ a TBI adapter. Makes a little more sense to me at least. Its a little more money but you're looking at $200 extra on the L05 for a decent roller cam, plus whatever else and it still won't perform as good as the Vortec headed motor...

The Vortec motor runs right at $2000, and already will make your power goal w/ the current cam. Since you don't need to buy a $200ish roller cam, you're looking at around only $300 more total over your estimate for the L05 buildup. And I think this would make more power, God knows the heads will flow a heckuvalot better.

You might do the math and see if you wouldn't come out ahead to buy a decent short block from somewhere, and throw a set of Vortecs and a cam in there. Shop around and see what you can get. I don't think the L05 is the motor to start with though if you are going to change both the heads and cam. I mean if you're going to be losing the heads and cam then the $1,100 GM motor might be a better candidate. It also uses a regular hydraulic cam setup so a replacement will be cheaper than a roller for the L05. The $1,100 dollar model only has roughly 8.5:1 compression I think it was, but that's with 76cc heads. If you run say the Vortecs, or a similar head w/ 64 cc chambers that compression will pick up to right where you want to be.

The above is basically what I did. I purchased a GM crate 350, I think the 265hp model for like $1300 if I recall correctly. Sold the original heads for $200, slapped on the Vortecs, upgraded the cam (to a single pattern cam I already had, putting in a dual pattern CompCam this weekend or the next). I went carbed (from TPI) so I used a Performer RPM intake and 750 holley. Added headers, MSD pro-billet Distrib, etc. Similar to your plans. The thing is I kinda peice parted my whole setup together as I went. Didn't originally plan to change the heads, etc. So I (and you as well) might have come out doing it for cheaper by going w/ the short block route, instead of a full crate motor.

Anyway, all that was probably more confusing then helpful, but oh well. In short I'm not thinking the L05 looks that hot for a starting place.

------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray

[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited July 26, 2000).]

Chad91Rs

The LO5, last I knew of was rated at 215hp.
I think you're on the right track.
If I can't afford the new 383torque engine Chevy releases soon this is my next option also. I believe the heads are the same swirl type but with the larger valves of course.

Don't rule out swapping on some vortec heads and selling the stocker heads.

I think the mechanic labor will be a little more than your estimate unless your married to his daughter. hA Ha hA

Scott C

I just received the very same engine from SDPC today!! Mine has a few variations, though. It started out as the Caprice motor, part #12513151. SDPC added Edelbrock Performer 6085 heads, Crane 208/214* 438/452" Compucam and GM 1.6 full roller rockers which increase the lift to 467/482". I plan on using a Holley Projection intake with my Holley 670cfm TBI and I have SLP/JetHot 1-5/8" headers and Flowmaster 3" exhaust ready to bolt on. Howell EFI will burn a custom chip to keep the computer happy. I'll have a Hughes 2500 stall converter and an Auburn Pro posi with 3.42 gears behind the motor.

I did a ton of research to find a suitable replacement for my 305 TBI and this is what I came up with. With the better heads and cam, I expect about 325hp/400tq from this setup. The total cost was very reasonable to me (about $3,000).

The heads on the Caprice motor are crappy stock 350 TBI heads and the cam is pretty weak. Don't expect more than 250hp from the stock setup.

You may want to add some additional money to your budget for shipping of the engine, gaskets, and other "stuff".

I plan on installing the new motor in the next few weeks. I'll keep you posted on the results!

Larrys T/A

Hey Artic White i've replaced my 305tpi motor with this Caprice motor. I change my cam (look at sig), and bolted my stock tpi system on it. I'am not real happy with the performance but everything is stock accept the cam. Very soon i plan to put on SLP headers and cat back. Also i need to have a custom chip made, due to the 5speed. All and all it's a good motor to start with, it has potential with a cam & head swap.

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• 1987 T/A 350tpi, 5speed, Stock exhaust, Gutted Cat,Compucam 2030 429 452 & 204 214,TbBypass,Ported Plenum,AFPR. 14.37@93.4mph 1.99 60ft

Arctic White 91 RS

Everyone, thank you for your input.

I've talked with the mechanic. He said engine swap would be about $400, I've been doing business with him for right at 20 years, and I think that's why the labor wasn't more.

One thing he made clear to me was,Keep It Simple to keep the cost down.

I would like to do the 350/330hp Vortec but the Vortec head don't have the EGR. I'm not sure what's involved in cobbling up an EGR tapping into the headers.

Any ideas?

Ray87Z

Talk to NathanSDPC in the Scoggin Dickey board about their EGR manifold for Vortecs. Involves plumbing a line off the headers like you said, similar setup to the way they are stock in the 96 to 9x trucks. I don't have all the details though. Other question is why do you need the EGR? Mine passed the new IM240 or whatever dyno emissions test here (in GA) w/ the new catco cat being the only emissions equipment on the car. If your tests aren't too restrictive you shouldn't have a problem w/ a similar setup. Especially w/ something like computer controlled TBI, like I said above mine's running a honking holley 750. But if you're in a Kalifornicated state I guess you'll need it.

------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray

Arctic White 91 RS

Ray,

I'm near Charlotte, N.C., it's the basic sniffer test and visual inspection.

That sounds really good that the Vortec's passed without EGR. What's the Dyno test?

Ray87Z

The dyno test is a newer, great deal stricter test were they actually put the car on a loaded dyno and simulate real driving conditions, instead of merely sniffin the tailpipe in neutral at 2500 rpm or whatever it used to be. I assume that neutral revving test is the one you guys still have there. You should destroy that test, heck might even beat it w/ a gutted cat. But I would be shocked outta my mind if you didn't pass it number wise w/ virtually any setup you're likely to run in decent tune w/ a functioning cat.

If the visual is strict there ( we have a visual here too and it totally was not strict) then you can rig up something that passes as a functioning EGR. I didn't even try to be sneaky about it here, no rig up on the egr or anything, and the air tubes are even capped in plain sight on my headers, hehe.

BTW, I *think* the standard Edelbrock Performer for Vortecs has EGR capabilities, but frankly I don't remember for sure. I know Scoggin Dickey recently came out w/ a carb intake that can do egr though so you can find some way to rig it up if you still want to run it.

------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray

[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited July 26, 2000).]

Arctic White 91 RS

Ray,

Thanks for the tips...I didn't realize there was a new dyno test. I've heard that in 2004 here we start doing an OBD-II scan as the test. The cars computer is to tell if anything is wrong.

In anycase, I'll save and may go for the vortec.

Eggplant Jeff

No, edelbrock performer vortec doesn't have EGR. Because the HEADS have no EGR provision. That's why you need the funky header pipe instead.

Also, if you just run with no EGR you'll have to burn a new chip... the computer will notice EGR is not working and start throwing code 32 unless you do something about it.

Arctic White 91 RS

Ray & Egg

So this means I could bolt on an EGR to pass visual and have a new chip (which the RS will need anyway) burned to avoid the Code 32 EGR light.

I know the current 305 in the car likes the EGR and will "ping" if it clogs up.

Would the Vortec be prone to "ping" without the cooling effect from teh EGR?

Or do avoid the ping with the Vortec by just reducing the timing?

Thanks