Car starting hard.... then died...
11-20-2002, 12:55 AM
#1
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Car starting hard.... then died...
First off, id like to say this is the first post i've ever made, and i know very little about cars. 
I know i probably cant fix this on my own, but i dont want to get screwed when i take it into a shop.
Here's the story... during the summer my car, out of nowhere, started to give me trouble when i tried to start it. It would turn over, catch, and then just die. It would eventually start and take me where i needed to go. Later it started to feel like it would hesitate when i tried to accelerate after a hard start. I took it into the shop, paid 80 bucks to run the computer check, all that comes up is the mass air flow sensor. but this has always come up ever since i had the car and even after replacing the sensor. i opt not to change the sensor again. My bad starting continues, from time to time it would stall at a stop sign or red light, and maybe i would even have to give it gas to get it to start. but i figured the car is old. I change my fuel filter, the one i had in was pretty clogged, and this seemed to help for a little while, but the problems come back. I take it from my home in PA to college in NC make 2 trips up and down. One day i feel it give out while i'm moving down the street, and it refuses to start for 10 or so minutes. 3 days later, i hop in to go to work, starts fine, get on the highway, going about 60...car cuts off. I got it to restart, cut off again, happens about 3 times before it dies and wont start. had it towed back to campus and now its just sitting here. What do you guys think, where do i go from here? thanks for listening if you made it this far.
brimstone :hail:
I know i probably cant fix this on my own, but i dont want to get screwed when i take it into a shop. Here's the story... during the summer my car, out of nowhere, started to give me trouble when i tried to start it. It would turn over, catch, and then just die. It would eventually start and take me where i needed to go. Later it started to feel like it would hesitate when i tried to accelerate after a hard start. I took it into the shop, paid 80 bucks to run the computer check, all that comes up is the mass air flow sensor. but this has always come up ever since i had the car and even after replacing the sensor. i opt not to change the sensor again. My bad starting continues, from time to time it would stall at a stop sign or red light, and maybe i would even have to give it gas to get it to start. but i figured the car is old. I change my fuel filter, the one i had in was pretty clogged, and this seemed to help for a little while, but the problems come back. I take it from my home in PA to college in NC make 2 trips up and down. One day i feel it give out while i'm moving down the street, and it refuses to start for 10 or so minutes. 3 days later, i hop in to go to work, starts fine, get on the highway, going about 60...car cuts off. I got it to restart, cut off again, happens about 3 times before it dies and wont start. had it towed back to campus and now its just sitting here. What do you guys think, where do i go from here? thanks for listening if you made it this far.
brimstone :hail:
11-20-2002, 08:18 AM
#2
Brimstone,
Welcome Aboard!
According to your signature, you have an '86 IROC. From the text of your post, you mentioned a MAF sensor, so we can presume you have the LB9 TPI engine. (Correct me as soon as I'm wrong, please.) Given that, there are several possibilities and a few things you can check to help narrow the scope.
But first, even if the MAF is completely dead, the engine should at least start. It may start, and then die as soon as it's running, but it should at least start, since the MAF input is basically ignored during cranking.
You can help by clearing up a few questions. Is the MIL (SES) lamp on when the engine is running?
Do you recall what error code the shop determined you had? If not, you can scan for the codes easily (more about that later).
When was the MAF sensor replaced, and what part number was used?
Have you tested the fuel pressure? Results?
Has the throttle body been cleaned?
Is Duke going to the Final Four? (Never mind that last one - I'm just trying to get a jump on wagering.)
We'll wait here for your replies.
Welcome Aboard!
According to your signature, you have an '86 IROC. From the text of your post, you mentioned a MAF sensor, so we can presume you have the LB9 TPI engine. (Correct me as soon as I'm wrong, please.) Given that, there are several possibilities and a few things you can check to help narrow the scope.
But first, even if the MAF is completely dead, the engine should at least start. It may start, and then die as soon as it's running, but it should at least start, since the MAF input is basically ignored during cranking.
You can help by clearing up a few questions. Is the MIL (SES) lamp on when the engine is running?
Do you recall what error code the shop determined you had? If not, you can scan for the codes easily (more about that later).
When was the MAF sensor replaced, and what part number was used?
Have you tested the fuel pressure? Results?
Has the throttle body been cleaned?
Is Duke going to the Final Four? (Never mind that last one - I'm just trying to get a jump on wagering.)
We'll wait here for your replies.
11-20-2002, 08:54 AM
#3
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i dont kno much about my car, it saddens me really. All i know is that it's fuel injected, and is a v8.
"You can help by clearing up a few questions. Is the MIL (SES) lamp on when the engine is running?" i cant get it to start anymore, and i dont know what lamp is.
"Do you recall what error code the shop determined you had? If not, you can scan for the codes easily (more about that later)." no, i dont remember the numbers, they just told me they were all related to the MAF sensor, i think it was 2 numbers.
"When was the MAF sensor replaced, and what part number was used?" it was replaced before my uncle ever gave me the car around 2 years ago, don't know the part number.
Have you tested the fuel pressure? Results?nope...wanted to but friend with a shop never cam through
Has the throttle body been cleaned?not to my knowlegde
Is Duke going to the Final Four? (Never mind that last one - I'm just trying to get a jump on wagering.) Dont doubt the young kids, jones can still jump out the building, duhon gets his time to shine, and 3/6 freshman are mc'ds all americans.
by the way... if anyone out there knows of mechanics in the Durham Area that may be particulary good with Camaros suggestions would be appreicated.
"You can help by clearing up a few questions. Is the MIL (SES) lamp on when the engine is running?" i cant get it to start anymore, and i dont know what lamp is.
"Do you recall what error code the shop determined you had? If not, you can scan for the codes easily (more about that later)." no, i dont remember the numbers, they just told me they were all related to the MAF sensor, i think it was 2 numbers.
"When was the MAF sensor replaced, and what part number was used?" it was replaced before my uncle ever gave me the car around 2 years ago, don't know the part number.
Have you tested the fuel pressure? Results?nope...wanted to but friend with a shop never cam through
Has the throttle body been cleaned?not to my knowlegde
Is Duke going to the Final Four? (Never mind that last one - I'm just trying to get a jump on wagering.) Dont doubt the young kids, jones can still jump out the building, duhon gets his time to shine, and 3/6 freshman are mc'ds all americans.
by the way... if anyone out there knows of mechanics in the Durham Area that may be particulary good with Camaros suggestions would be appreicated.
11-20-2002, 05:13 PM
#4
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Car: 4
Engine: 6
Transmission: 5
Sounds to me an awful lot like a fuel pump.....
Take a can of starting fluid with you, and try to start it after you shoot a bunch of that into the intake. If it starts and then dies, you probably need a fuel pump. If it still doesn't start, check the ignition system over real good. The rotor especially. In fact, if you haven't changed it lately, you need a new one anyway, just change it. You can get the ignition module (in the distributor) tested at AutoZone or some such.
Take a can of starting fluid with you, and try to start it after you shoot a bunch of that into the intake. If it starts and then dies, you probably need a fuel pump. If it still doesn't start, check the ignition system over real good. The rotor especially. In fact, if you haven't changed it lately, you need a new one anyway, just change it. You can get the ignition module (in the distributor) tested at AutoZone or some such.
11-20-2002, 10:15 PM
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thanks for all the sugesstions but could you dumb them down for me, anything that is suggested i need pretty much step by step. i'm leaning towards it being my fuel pump, even thought that went on me about a year ago and i replaced it then. i can usually hear it come on when i turn the key into the on position, i dont hear it anymore. please keep the sugesstions coming. thanks.
11-21-2002, 08:07 AM
#7
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could be the relay then...if you just replaced it it could be the relay.
I know of a few ways to check it but with your limited knowledge i dont know if you could. The fuel pump relay is on the drivers side firewall nearest to the power brake booster.
It should only be like a 10 dollar part or so...id give it a try just to rule that out before you do swaping fuel pumps again..
did you change the pump yourself or did a shop do it?
I know of a few ways to check it but with your limited knowledge i dont know if you could. The fuel pump relay is on the drivers side firewall nearest to the power brake booster.
It should only be like a 10 dollar part or so...id give it a try just to rule that out before you do swaping fuel pumps again..
did you change the pump yourself or did a shop do it?
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11-21-2002, 08:35 AM
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Car: 90 Formula
Engine: 355 C.I.
Transmission: 5 Speed
Axle/Gears: 3.42
A - don't use starting fluid on your car. Carb clean will work and won't cause what could be a violent damaging back fire.. I would see if it has spark. If it has a fuel pressure test port then push in the valve while someone turns it over. I gotta get to work so I quickly read this post but It sounds like a bad ignition modual to me.. but hey who knows.. well gotta go do my mechanic thing.. late
11-21-2002, 10:49 AM
#10
It would be helpful to know the error codes. Try this:
First, you'll need to acquire a GM OBD I ECM Diagnostic Trouble Code Retrieval Tool (commonly known as a paper clip to TGO members).
With the engine and ignition turned off, locate the ALDL connector under the dash, just to the right of the steering wheel in the driver's foot well area. There should be a small rectangular cover over the access hole in the lower dash trim.
Insert a tool as described above (paper clip) into the 'A' and 'B' terminals on the ALDL connector:
WITHOUT STARTING the engine, turn the ignition to the "RUN" position. Watch the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) - it will begin to flash. This is also commonly called the "Service Engine Soon" or "SES" lamp. The first code will flash three times, and will usually be a code '12'. This is encoded by one flash of the lamp, a brief pause, then two successive flashes of the lamp. Each code will repeat three times, so you should see a "Code 12" flash three times. Any other error codes will follow in numerical order, and each code should flash three times. After all codes have been displayed three times, the "Code 12" will again flash three times, then all other codes will follow as described earlier. This cycle will continue until the jumper is removed or the ignition is turned off.
After you have made a note of all error codes, turn off the ignition and remove the jumper immediately. If you forget to remove the jumper and attempt to start the engine with it in place, you could damage the ECM. For this reason you should remove it immediately.
Once you have a note of all error codes, check this file for the decoding:
GM Error Codes.pdf.
(You'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader to view/print the file.)
First, you'll need to acquire a GM OBD I ECM Diagnostic Trouble Code Retrieval Tool (commonly known as a paper clip to TGO members).
With the engine and ignition turned off, locate the ALDL connector under the dash, just to the right of the steering wheel in the driver's foot well area. There should be a small rectangular cover over the access hole in the lower dash trim.
Insert a tool as described above (paper clip) into the 'A' and 'B' terminals on the ALDL connector:
WITHOUT STARTING the engine, turn the ignition to the "RUN" position. Watch the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) - it will begin to flash. This is also commonly called the "Service Engine Soon" or "SES" lamp. The first code will flash three times, and will usually be a code '12'. This is encoded by one flash of the lamp, a brief pause, then two successive flashes of the lamp. Each code will repeat three times, so you should see a "Code 12" flash three times. Any other error codes will follow in numerical order, and each code should flash three times. After all codes have been displayed three times, the "Code 12" will again flash three times, then all other codes will follow as described earlier. This cycle will continue until the jumper is removed or the ignition is turned off.
After you have made a note of all error codes, turn off the ignition and remove the jumper immediately. If you forget to remove the jumper and attempt to start the engine with it in place, you could damage the ECM. For this reason you should remove it immediately.
Once you have a note of all error codes, check this file for the decoding:
GM Error Codes.pdf.
(You'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader to view/print the file.)
12-07-2002, 07:40 PM
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UPDATE
hey, i'm back from my thanksgiving break and i have updates on my situation. i went out to the car today to try to read the error mesages with our special gm approved tool (aka paper clip)... i get all ready, find out the battery has died. I get a friend to help me jump it. after letting it charge for a while i turned the key to the on position... and i heard something i hadnt heard in a while, the fuel pump turn on. so, i tryed to start it... and it turned over and everything, i have it some gas, and it cut off in like a minute. so, i went and tried to get the numbers, and only 12 came up. does this mean that the only thing that was wrong is my battery being low/dead? or my friend was saying it could be my alternator.... i hope this means that my problem may not be as serious as i thought it was. thanks for your responses and let me know what you think. peace.
thanks for your responses and let me know what you think. peace.
12-08-2002, 02:53 AM
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please anyone who may know anything about this respond asap, i need to get my car fixed soon because i need to drive it home in about a week. thanks:hail:
12-08-2002, 05:51 AM
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Your battery probably died because it said without usage for a while.
As far as the problems your experiencing. I had IDENTICAL problems. You said your uncle replaced the MAF 2 years before you got the car...well if a code is coming up it's your MAF sensor than take a ride to the junkyard however you can get there and buy one.
And BTW, whoever said there car will shut off as soon as it starts with the MAF connected, not to like be a jerk or prove you wrong but I've started my car without the MAF connected and driven home, if I kept my foot in the gas it stayed running. And it idled at start up fine without the MAF connected, just smelled like a nasty fart!
As far as the problems your experiencing. I had IDENTICAL problems. You said your uncle replaced the MAF 2 years before you got the car...well if a code is coming up it's your MAF sensor than take a ride to the junkyard however you can get there and buy one.
And BTW, whoever said there car will shut off as soon as it starts with the MAF connected, not to like be a jerk or prove you wrong but I've started my car without the MAF connected and driven home, if I kept my foot in the gas it stayed running. And it idled at start up fine without the MAF connected, just smelled like a nasty fart!
12-08-2002, 10:07 AM
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so you think all i need to do is change the maf sensor... even thought the error codes even came up right after my uncle replaced it? should i even bother in trying to get to auto zone and have them test the battery and starting system?
12-08-2002, 12:14 PM
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Go and have the battery test done if it's for free or for pocket change. Could be something stupid like that...
If not, a trip to the junkyard for a MAF is no biggy.
If not, a trip to the junkyard for a MAF is no biggy.
12-08-2002, 12:19 PM
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i dont have much money, so i dont want to buy unneeded parts. how much should a maf sensor be at the junkyard? and do you think that will fix the problems i'm having? would the maf being blown make my car just cut off like that while i was driving and make it start hard?
12-08-2002, 01:01 PM
#17
Brimstone,
Welcome back.
Your engine will run without a MAF sensor, but run poorly.
If the engine dies after start up, you should monitor the fuel pressure.
It isn't surprising that all you got was a 12 - it's likely that all the stored error codes (if any) were erased when the battery died. Change the battery fully, then test it. If the battery tests good, don't give it another thought. Try starting again and watch the fuel pressure if you can get your hands on a gauge. If the MIL pops up again, rettrieve teh error codes before the battery fails again (see how easy it is?).
We'll wait for results....
Welcome back.
Your engine will run without a MAF sensor, but run poorly.
If the engine dies after start up, you should monitor the fuel pressure.
It isn't surprising that all you got was a 12 - it's likely that all the stored error codes (if any) were erased when the battery died. Change the battery fully, then test it. If the battery tests good, don't give it another thought. Try starting again and watch the fuel pressure if you can get your hands on a gauge. If the MIL pops up again, rettrieve teh error codes before the battery fails again (see how easy it is?).
We'll wait for results....
12-08-2002, 01:15 PM
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i dont kno how to test the fuel pressure, or how i would get my hands on a gauge. everything is still closed down here cuz of the dumb ice storm they had. i'm scared i wont be able to get it running within the week so i can go home with it.
12-08-2002, 06:57 PM
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thank you, i'll try to go to autozone tomarrow to get the battery charged and tested, and i think they do a part loan thing there, and maybe i can get one. i'll let you know my results.
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