radiateu2

I have been hearing different opinions on this so I thought I would put this out for you folks to give me your opinions.

I just assembled my 305 block everything had just come back from the machine shop and had been checked and cleaned by them. The rod and main bearings were all within standards at 002 everything was assembled with moly assembly lube and torqued down to specs. The pistons have moly rings on them.

The part that has me thinking is that it takes some effort to turn the crank by hand and the heads are not even on the engine yet. I cant see a bent rod all the bearings are within specs. Could it be the friction of the rings and moly lube on the bearings and crank causing the stiffness. What do you people think the problem might be if any.

rjmcgee

sounds about right.

radiateu2

What sounds right?

F-BIRD'88

Why WHY WWHY!!! do you have MOLY lube on the bearings???

The only place for moly lube is on the cam lobes.
Plain 10/30 motor oil is all that should be on your bearings.

Thats all you need on bearings. All you need to do is prime the oil pump.
before start up.

Did you oil the cylinders before installing the pistons.
Bet not eh....

You'll have to tear it all down and clean every thing now

MOLY LUBE IS NOT FOR BEARINGS EVER>>>>>

radiateu2

so the asy lube I got from the store does not go on the bearings is that what you are saying. Oh and I did oil down the cylinders

F-BIRD'88

MOLY LUBE or Moly disolfide grease is an extreme pressure lube
for cam lobes and lifter bottoms (non roller)

The bearings should have oil on them

thats it, thats all.
Forget the moly, forget what you see on TV.
This may or may not be your only problem but
I'd still tear it down and re-clean every thing and inspect every thing. Especially the back sides of the bearings (clean and dry)
Do not wash the white coating off the bearings surface.
A good race motor will need about 17 ft/lbs to rotate the short block assembly. a stock motor will need about 35 ft/lbs to rotate
it. Not 60+. some thing is wrong.

radiateu2

Thanks fbird I bet the grease is the problem all it would take is a little grease to get behind a bearing and to cause drag. What do you use to clean bearings I hear brake cleaner and laquer thinner oh and to wear gloves Ede said he use lubriplate on his what do you think about that idea or should I stick with the oil. I just did a search and it seams as thou most people wear gloves which I did anyway. Thanks for the help it makes sense to me now the grease is causing all of the friction.

Oh and damn your hard on a guy but its ok I need to learn and dont wanna do it the hard way

F-BIRD'88

Sorry for jumpin' all over ya....

Better to get it all straightened out now before ya fire it
then have to rebuid it again.

A lot of people get caught up in the fancy miracle lube trap.
Oh use this, or that to assemble your motor!!!

Noda..... OIL all you'll ever need.

F-BIRD'88

To clean the bearings:

I've never had to clean moly lube off a bearing so I'm guessing
here.
Use the mildest solvent you can as you don't want to wash
that white coating off the bearings if yu can.
It is an anti scuff coating. But if you must , yu must.

There are two kinds of Brake Cleaner.
1 has tolene and xelene in it.
The other , usually called professional strength brake cleaner
has percloroethelene in it.
This stuff is the best stuff for cleaning oil off metal.
You may not find it in stores in the States as it is a hazardous chemical (cancerous). So use it with caution.

radiateu2

I will try to clean them up but if I cant I will just have to bite the bullet and get new ones. I think even mild soap and water might do it...... so why does ARP give you packs of moly lube with there nuts and bolts?

F-BIRD'88

I have no Idea......

Just use a lil oil on the threads.

radiateu2

Ok guys just wanna let you know I got it NO MOLY LUBE ON BEARINGS......so need to flame me on this one but if it makes ya feel better go ahead anyway lol Thanks F-Bird88. You have been a big help.

ZZ28ZZ

Having just recently experiencing some ARP bolt torqueing follys, I can tell you the molly lube that comes with the rod bolts is supposed to be used on the rod-bolt threads and under the head of the nuts. After it's all lubed-up, torque them to the spec that ARP recommends.
Molly is slicker than motor oil. The extra slickness will make a rod bolt stretch more when torqued. It's critical the stretch is correct.
Using motor oil to lube the threads and torqueing to the molly lube spec (which is the only spec ARP publishes) will result in insufficient bolt stretch possibly leading to the nut backing off.

If someone tells you if the molly lube torque is 50 ft-lbs, you should increase the torque to 65 ft-lbs with 30wt oil to get the same stretch, they don't know what they are talking abt.
I had to buy another set of rod bolts because my stroker kit supplier told me that..

90Formula-X-F

When you say hard to turn over. What exactly does that mean ? With all the pistons installed in a short block it should be tight enough where it will be hard to turn. Just depends on what you call hard ? Is it like stuck ?

The assy lube isn't making the motor hard to turn over. F-bird is right on the proper lube to use however thousands upon thousands of engines have been built with success using assy lube on the bearings. The tech that works next to me uses assy lube on all his engines and has been for years. I've seen him build and install hundreds of engines and I've never seen any roll back on him. But he builds a lotta mom and pop stuff too.

I use motor oil myself but unless your building some supreme race motor I'd be running whatcha got going on and coat the cylinder walls with a little motor oil.

The bottom line, did you do assy it correctlty ? If you think you need to tear it apart do it. probley gonna have to rely on a lttle instint here. If not, advise what it really takes to turn it over .. If it seems ok then let'r rip and change the oil right away, you'll be ok..

Contamination concerns: Dirt attracks to oilly and greasy areas. The more you mess with this motor the more you stand a chance of getting dirt in it. Especially if you have never built aengine before. dirt is in the air.

goneracin

Moly is not only slicker, it is an extreme pressure lube. The friction between the threads will throw the stretch off by a lot if you use oil only on the threads and nut surface. If using ARP, or anybody's bolts, and they reccomend moly, USE IT or you will "lose it". Improper bolt stretch is the number 1 cause of failure in a new motor. I have personally done experiments with oil vs moly lube, and there is a very significant difference.
Having said that, you should not use moly for bearings. Over aplication of moly will plug an oil filter. I personally use a specific assemblly lube,that clings very well, and have had very good luck with it. Considering i build some very high end stuff ($60,000 +) im not willing to chance changing. Oil would work fine, but be sure to prime the oil system before startup, as oil doesnt have alot of resistance to dry startup, and if not primed, the oil from assembly will be long gone before pressurized oil gets to the bearings.

If your not sure how much drag is too much, turn the crank with a torque wrench and see how much it takes to turn it.

radiateu2

well, I got it it was a bent rod I took everything apart and cleaned it with brake cleaner. Re-assembled every thing with 30wt I can spin the crank and cam using a crescent wrench with little effort. Its amazing what a 1000s bend in a rod will do.

Thanks for the help guys especially f-bird88 and Vader

Vader

Bent rod? You mean as in "twist", or lateral bend that bound a bearing?

radiateu2

I suspect as well as the machine shop suspects that it was twisted by the crank when I torque down the bolts it binds to the point you cant rotate the crank. I put a torque wrench on the damper bolt. It took 55ft lbs of torque to rotate the entire block assy to include camshaft after the rod was replaced of course. I still wonder how it became twisted? Dont know since the car was not running when I got it. I wonder if it was possible it twisted when the machine shop heated the shaft up to instal the piston?