Old guy needs young wisdom for 5.7 build up
11-10-2002, 10:17 AM
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Car: 91 Z/28
Engine: 5.0
Transmission: T-56 6 speed
Old guy needs young wisdom for 5.7 build up
This is in conjunction with my "going to the junk yard" thread. OK, the 98 vortec is on the stand, and I now understand that the fly wheels on these motors match the crank for external balancing. What else has changed........ are the pistons still the same as the pre 87's or has that changed too? Obviously the gasket set is 87 and up. Cam and lifters are roller setups. What else is do I need to learn? 
Thanks for any input.
Thanks for any input. 
11-10-2002, 01:29 PM
#2
FBF,
Welcome back to the wonderful world of the SBC.
In your initial post, "Trip to the junk yard", You were fortunate enough to have replies from two of the many more experienced builders on the boards. Ede probably eats, drinks, breathes, and sleeps Chevys. (Of course, at bathroom time, it's all Ford.) And if I'm right about RB, he goes to sleep at night, not counting sheep, but envisioning the intake, compression, combustion, and exhaust cycles, in the correct firing sequence, all while calculating valve lift and float and factoring RPM and harmonics at any given point in the rotation. Anyway, those two, along with many others, should be able to provide reasonably sound advice as you get back into the habit.
As for me, I might be able to answer some of the more mundane questions you have. The SBC V-8 really hasn't changed a lot since the mid-'50s. There have been a few refinements introduced along the way, but the beast still has the same bloodlines.
* The pistons are the same as you probably remember. Cast aluminum alloy, cam ground, similar skirt lengths, with the same ring and wrist pin positions.
* The connecting rods are likely forged powdered metal (sintered alloy). These are a little lighter, stronger, better balanced, and more symmetrical than the older cast rods, and are generally considered adequate in strength up to 450 HP at the crankshaft. They are by their nature more stable, so they don't benefit from shot-peining or other means of stress relieving like their older cast or forged counterparts.
* The lubrication system is essentially the same, with all oil being routed through the rear main on its way to the rear camshaft bearing and lifter oil galleries to be distributed to the rest of the crank and rod bearings.
* The crankshafts are about the same, with probably a little better attention to detail on the casting flash, counterweights, and overall balance. A forged crank with radiused and filleted throws/mains is still a desireable alternative, but the stock cast crank is suitable for performance street use for most enthusiasts.
* The case itself has undergone a few changes, with a one-piece rear main oil seal being adopted in 1986, and roller cams/lifters on passenger car engines in 1987. The one-piece rear seal requires a seal reatiner and different machining on the crank flange and flywheel or flexplate to accomodate the seal retainer.
* The timing drive itself has changed, in that most Vortec engines have a single roller chain timing drive instead of the silent chain, and none of the sprockets have plastic teeth. Also, most factory camshafts no longer have a fuel pump lobe machined onto them.
Beyond that, most revisions are minor, like different head port modifications, modernized ignition and control systems, and fuel delivery systems.
You should feel very comforable diving into the Vortec once you realize the little changes and refinements are going to be pretty straightforward.
Welcome back to the wonderful world of the SBC.
In your initial post, "Trip to the junk yard", You were fortunate enough to have replies from two of the many more experienced builders on the boards. Ede probably eats, drinks, breathes, and sleeps Chevys. (Of course, at bathroom time, it's all Ford.) And if I'm right about RB, he goes to sleep at night, not counting sheep, but envisioning the intake, compression, combustion, and exhaust cycles, in the correct firing sequence, all while calculating valve lift and float and factoring RPM and harmonics at any given point in the rotation. Anyway, those two, along with many others, should be able to provide reasonably sound advice as you get back into the habit.
As for me, I might be able to answer some of the more mundane questions you have. The SBC V-8 really hasn't changed a lot since the mid-'50s. There have been a few refinements introduced along the way, but the beast still has the same bloodlines.
* The pistons are the same as you probably remember. Cast aluminum alloy, cam ground, similar skirt lengths, with the same ring and wrist pin positions.
* The connecting rods are likely forged powdered metal (sintered alloy). These are a little lighter, stronger, better balanced, and more symmetrical than the older cast rods, and are generally considered adequate in strength up to 450 HP at the crankshaft. They are by their nature more stable, so they don't benefit from shot-peining or other means of stress relieving like their older cast or forged counterparts.
* The lubrication system is essentially the same, with all oil being routed through the rear main on its way to the rear camshaft bearing and lifter oil galleries to be distributed to the rest of the crank and rod bearings.
* The crankshafts are about the same, with probably a little better attention to detail on the casting flash, counterweights, and overall balance. A forged crank with radiused and filleted throws/mains is still a desireable alternative, but the stock cast crank is suitable for performance street use for most enthusiasts.
* The case itself has undergone a few changes, with a one-piece rear main oil seal being adopted in 1986, and roller cams/lifters on passenger car engines in 1987. The one-piece rear seal requires a seal reatiner and different machining on the crank flange and flywheel or flexplate to accomodate the seal retainer.
* The timing drive itself has changed, in that most Vortec engines have a single roller chain timing drive instead of the silent chain, and none of the sprockets have plastic teeth. Also, most factory camshafts no longer have a fuel pump lobe machined onto them.
Beyond that, most revisions are minor, like different head port modifications, modernized ignition and control systems, and fuel delivery systems.
You should feel very comforable diving into the Vortec once you realize the little changes and refinements are going to be pretty straightforward.
Last edited by Vader; 11-10-2002 at 01:51 PM.
11-10-2002, 02:43 PM
#3
TGO Supporter
well i'd reply to this but i'm too damn old to be offering youthful wisdom.
and vader thanks for the compliments, but i'm still a dumbass at heart.
now for the original question only big changes on a SBC over the years are the 1 piece crank seal, there are 2 differant lip depths on the oil pans, dip stick location, roller cam, spider to retain roller lifter, what a joke ,the cam retension plate for rollers, push rod length is shorter in roller engines, SA or nonSA rockers actually i believe the cranks are all balanced the same but with the one piece seal there is no flywheel flange that acted as a counter weight so the bat wing weight was added to the flexplate and the dowel was added to the crank to index the flex plate or flywheel
and vader thanks for the compliments, but i'm still a dumbass at heart.
now for the original question only big changes on a SBC over the years are the 1 piece crank seal, there are 2 differant lip depths on the oil pans, dip stick location, roller cam, spider to retain roller lifter, what a joke ,the cam retension plate for rollers, push rod length is shorter in roller engines, SA or nonSA rockers actually i believe the cranks are all balanced the same but with the one piece seal there is no flywheel flange that acted as a counter weight so the bat wing weight was added to the flexplate and the dowel was added to the crank to index the flex plate or flywheel
11-10-2002, 03:40 PM
#4
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Car: 91 Z/28
Engine: 5.0
Transmission: T-56 6 speed
Got it! no lobe on the tail of the crank, hense weighted flywheel, and a set of speed pro pistons on ebay for a sbc should fit. I can tell I am going to get stung on gaskets for a 98, but such is life. Coughing up $400 for the tpi base is going to be tough pill to swallow too. There is "converted" tpi base in the classifieds. Is this just a desaster waiting to happen or has there been any success doing this? Thanks for the words of wisdom.
11-11-2002, 01:40 PM
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Car: 1987 Camaro Z-28
Engine: 6.3L Victor EFI
Transmission: Tremec TKO 600
Axle/Gears: Moser 9"/4.11 Trac-Lok
Originally posted by ede
buy a one piece oil pan gasket, around 15 or 20 dollars. way easier to install and lot less **** to leaks than the more common and older 4 piece pan gasket.
buy a one piece oil pan gasket, around 15 or 20 dollars. way easier to install and lot less **** to leaks than the more common and older 4 piece pan gasket.
11-11-2002, 01:51 PM
#7
Actually, the GM gasket sets can be a real bargain if you don't pay full retail. A set for an LT1 from FelPro was $293.00, whereas the same (but more complete) set from GM was only $190.00. And the FelPro price was with the discount from my favorite parts supply house, not full retail.
And come to think of it, I'm no spring chicken myself, so don't try to steal any youthful wisdom from me either....
And come to think of it, I'm no spring chicken myself, so don't try to steal any youthful wisdom from me either....
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