Mark A Shields

Someone was telling me they make intake gaskets for iron or aluminum.

I have an aluminum manifold, and got Fel Pro gaskets that are blue.

He said they should be gray.

No4NJunk

"2. DO NOT use the Fel-Pro Permatorque/Blue intake gaskets. Because of their very hard, non-pliable construction, they don't compress well when used with an aluminum intake manifold. Instead, use a Fel-Pro Printoseal or Mr. Gasket UltraSeal gasket. The factory composition-type embossed gasket also works satisfactorily."

Mark, this is from edelbrocks site. Told Ya . Not necessarily grey though. Thats just what mine were. Basically using the permatorque/blue gasket causes brunelling (spelling is probably wrong). Gasket actually indents into the manifold.

Mark A Shields

oh crap, is it too late to switch? Think this may be causing my lack of performance?


Also, I had my brother install the intake, we don't have a tq wrench, he's done intake installs a lot and said he just gauges how much to tighten it. He worked from the center out.

ede

hell if it ain't broke don't fix it. if it develops a intake leak sometime later most likely it isn't going ot leave you stranded. most if not all SBC intakes are aluminum since the late 70s or early 80s and i've been buying whatever fel pro gaskets they give me, not once was i ever ask if it was for an aluminum or iron intake. not had the first leak and i'll bet i've put on two or three more than you have.

No4NJunk

yeah good attitude to have. . Not a flame but theres a right way of doing things. don't know about you but I try not to half *** my car. Usually when I do something I do it for a reason.

Alright I'm off my soapbox.

ede

what's the point of changing now if there isn't a leak? doesn't matter to me, i'm sure you're way sharper with this car stuff than i ever will be, i just try to stumble through one job to the next without getting hurt or breaking a lot of parts

No4NJunk

never said he had too. I just made a point.

aww! how modest. Why do I sense sarcasm there. Maybe its because of the fact that your older and you automatically have to know more. Hmmmm. Where have I seen this before.

Not sure If you were kidding or not here. But there again lies the lazy attitude. Get through it as quickly and cheaply as possible. I have worked with the type. The same people that instead of taking the plenum off to readjust a noisy valve, just tell the customer that its normal to make that sound.

LOL.

I'm done. You can comment back if you want but I'm not gonna read it. I came in here with the intention of helping mark out. I just can't stand it when Misinfo is given out. Thats how problems and ignorance spread!!

Guest

Edelbrock is notorious for making generalized mistakes, that being one of them. They are just trying to cover for their cheap alloy they use on their manifolds. Where did you come up with brinelling anyway? It'd be a little hard for that to happen given the situation...

I actually spoke with a Fel-Pro rep years ago about this same issue, and there is no issue. Not really surprised though, been using those gaskets for at least 15 years without problems.

RB83L69

It'll be fine, I've used the blue ones with their intakes many times.

Think about it... the stock intake for most of these cars (and millions of others) is aluminum. If it works on stock intakes, it ought to work on supposedly higher-quality aftermarket ones too. I think Vic's heirs just own stock in the Gray Gasket Co. company or something.

No4NJunk

You go by your experience and I'll go by mine. Cool. I'll get more on this I was just to lazy to find sources.

ViciousZ

iTrader: (1)

Fabulous. Another pissing match.

Mark, I'd go ahead and leave it there, I doubt it's gonna do much damage if you don't already have a problem. I've always used the blue gaskets, and never had a problem with it sealing. Although the aluminum around the water jackets did get a little... crusty, I guess, but not bad enough to cause a problem. The blue gaskets may not be the best choice, but IMO it's nothing to worry about at this point.

Guest

The 'crusty' part you saw happens with factory gaskets too. Its a pretty considerable problem IMO. Proper coolant/water ratios and regular changes help minimize this but it still happens.

boogie

Its kinda like using a good mineral based oil verses synthetic.

Both do the job just fine.

SSC

They all work.

Just for future refrence the Engine Seal brand "generic" are the best I've ever used as far as intake gaskets go. Thier made similar to MR.Gakset sets but use a full rubber coating on both sides that forms an excellent seal at half the cost.


I hate Felpro!

No4NJunk

"16" THICK WITH PRINTOSEAL For street engines using aftermarket aluminum intake manifolds."
Fpp-1256 this was what I used.

This was out of summit. Hmmm. Wonder why felpro makes a gasket just for aluminum intakes (aftermarket cause thats what we're talking about).

that actually makes no sense to me because of the fact that they DID make a different gasket. Guess there was an issue after all!! BTW who did you talk to?

WHAT?? they mentioned a gasket for 2 different companies.

Nobody here has made a point other than saying its worked for them. Well great, I'm happy for ya. But there is a reason for buying the RIGHT part. As for the Edelbrock comment......Generalized mistakes.....I don't think so. I think I'll take there word over yours. I don't see you all doing any R & D.

here's the RIGHT felpro gasket (below). this was just the stock size.

BTW-Mark like I said I don't think that you have a problem based only on your gasket choice. But try checking for a leak anyway. ESp with the problems your having. Also check to see if your brother torqued the intake properly. This is a big issue especially when it comes to sealing. If it was overtorqued, or not torqued in the correct sequence the manifold could warp.

No4NJunk

"Brinell hardness number

A number related to the size of the permanent impression made by a ball indenter of specified size (usually 10 mm in diameter) pressed into the surface of the material under a specified load: where P = applied load in kg, D = diameter of the ball in mm, and d = diameter of the impression in mm. "

Just in case anyone wanted to know what brinelling was (or Brinell hardness number). I really didn't know all this so I thought I would post it.

SSC

I see what your getting at but like Ede said, Ive never been asked if I have an aluminum intake. Aluminum intakes are stock on most of our cars and the parts stores SHOULD have a second choice for application if it makes a difference.

I'm not saying your wrong in fact it makes sence becasue aluminum intakes warp and the extra cushoin would make a difference. This topic just makes one think.

Guest

An engineering rep from Fel Pro who came to our store.

Guest

Heres more from Summit, on the 1256:
"* Not for use on 82-85 engines with factory fuel injection or 87-up cast iron heads"

It also says its an embossed steel core laminate, which is the same as the other gaskets you said not to use. I guess if the ones Mark used are bad to use because they will brinell or warp the heads, so will your gasket.

No4NJunk

Why are they all of a sudden MY gasket!? Yes they are steel core laminate but a made up differently. Notice the "bead" around each port ( I'm thinkin this is what Printoseal is). I'm no gasket expert so I'm not going to sit here and try and tell you why exactly it works one way and not the other. But I do know some things and I've seen both gaskets up close. There are differences that I cannot fully explain. But If you want I'm sure I can find out.

yeah ssc, i saw part of ede's point but why trust what some over-the-counter guy says. I've always taken advice with a grain of salt. I (usually) do research before buying or doing something. I get different sides. I'm not rich so I can't afford to F*ck up something that goes wrong because billy at autozone says its the right this or the right that. Those parts places kill me. I never buy stuff there anymore unless I need it right then. Most of the time I order and just take my time. After screwin up big time this summer I realize its just not worth rushing.

Mark A Shields

Don't take what these guys are sayin to personally No4NJunk. They kind of remind me of my brother, he's worked on a lot of engines, and may not have exactly followed recommendations, but he still has a good since of what he's doing.

Though, I wish he could figure out what is wrong with my car.

Guest

Well, it says its an embossed steel core, which is like the blue gasket. Around each port (and water jackets) there is an area that isnt flat, its pressed to one side. You can go to the Fel-Pro website and check it out if you are unsure about what it looks like. The 'Print-O-Seal' Fel-Pro has been using for more years than I can count. Its a bead of an unknown material (unknown to me, its probably some sort of silicone or rubber or the like) around the holes. This was mostly used in the past on the head gaskets, and then later on thermostats and intakes. Supposedly (and you should be able to tell us) the 1256 you used has both the bead and embossed steel core.

I personally think Edelbrock is full of ****. If the manifold has adequate clamping force, it doesnt matter how much the core crushes, there is material on both sides over the metal core that does the sealing, the core is just there to provide some sort of strength to the material, and in the case of the embossed steel, an area where there is a pressure point around the ports. If the gasket were simply steel, I might see some issue with brinelling or lack of gasket compression creating problems, but it isnt, so...

Edelbrock's QC doesnt suck, its non-existant. I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if half their junk left the factory mis-machined and assembled with a myriad of third-world parts that didnt last longer than it would take you to drive the car out of the driveway. Thats probably why they say not to use the blue gasket, the printoseal adds insurance for their crap machining processes. For me to take tech advice from them, well, thats impossible. Those are the same crack smokers that told me:

My pullies are misaligned on my car (went through 3 of their water pumps in less than 10 minutes total... nevermind the factory one lasted 105,000 miles and the replacement is still in the car at 163,000.)

They only use quality-made US 'Pioneer' brand water pump bearings. I really need to take a picture of my pump and the bearing, which says Slovakia quite clearly.

The heads on my car are misaligned. Thats why the Performer RPM I was trying to put on didnt fit. First, it wouldnt sit down between the valve covers. I thought maybe the areas where the ports are (they are taller) was the problem. Glad I didnt cut it. I called and there was a problem with my (stock unmolested) motor, not the manifold. Nevermind that the factory manifold fit fine. Ok, lets measure. Oh, wait, front and rear width is at least 1/8" different. Cool. Driver side (or passenger side, I forget) ports were about 3/8" misaligned relative to the bolt holes. Cool. The intake faces were also not at 90 like they are supposed to be.

Edelcrock can suck it.

Like Mark said, this isnt against you, its what you are reading and taking as gospel. Between me, ede, and RB, we've probably assembled a few hundred engines, and probably a fair share of those with aluminum intakes (both factory and aftermarket) with the same aforementioned blue gaskets. I also have a friend that has been rebuilding engines since the mid 70's and he uses only Fel-Pro gaskets, and I've never heard him say anything about it either. I guess either theres a whole bunch of lucky or screwed up engines out there, or Edelbrock is playing the "Its not our part, its theirs" game again.