snowbird

I'm going to be building a 355 for my 87 Formula over the winter. I'll be using an 87 up block with my cc carb. I don't want a peaky engine that doesn't make power till 3000 and have to rev to 7000. I'm looking for a motor that will make lots of torque over a wide power band. I'm not sure on the budget yet, but let's say $1000. I realize I'll get lots of different opinions, but what kind of combination do you think will achive this. Thanks for any replies.

Mark

pauldaniel26

If what you want is torque, you'd be better off building a 383.

snowbird

I know, but a 383 would come in well above budget if done right.

94-6spd

One of the best 350 engines that I put into Dyno 2000 is 10:1 pistons, lt4 hot cam, and vortec heads. The torque curve is almost straight across flat and over 400 ft. lbs. I'm not sure if a roller cam would fit your budget or not. You also need 1.6 rockers.

CamaroDriver

Can't get much flatter than this.

It's the Vortec heads with a stock LT1 cam, Small tube headers w/mufflers, 670 Carb, DP Intake, all at 9:1 comp. Pretty flat if ya ask me.

Sitting Bull

This is a mockup I did of Mark Shields' 350. It has excellent hp and torque. You can see most of the parts in the pic of the graph. It also uses a Weiand Stealth intake manifold and home ported 305 heads, which are almost the equal of Vortecs. You can find out how to do your own heads by following the link at the end of my sig

SinthetikIroc

iTrader: (1)

dude the thing in your sig scared the living **** out of me. was that the wyshmaster who popped up? holy crap.

snowbird

Both those graphs look great! Looks like I'll be doing something similar to Mark Sheilds being I already have LG4 heads. Thanks alot guys!

CamaroFreak406

Here we go again. If you want a great torquey engine for cheap get yourself a used 400 (2 or 4 bolt doesn't matter) and put that in. Torque is amazing and the engine is very durable.

Later, Garrett

CamaroDriver

What are you talking about?

He said he wanted a FLAT torque curve. Not one as high as the Himalayan Mountains!!!!!!!!

ede

i'm amazed how much faith you guys put in DD2000, not that it isn't usefull in figureing out what parts work or don't work together, but i've built a lot of 500HP engines, according to DD2000 that ddin't quite live up to DD200s optimistic calculations, not that the engines were dogs or anything, but they sure weren't as high HP as the program figured.

Sitting Bull

In my experience, it is not so much a case of putting my faith in DD2000 as it is a matter of knowing the program's idiosyncracies and making compensation for them.

One of its problems is that it assigns a specific value, hp-wise, for all dual plane intake manifolds. This is simply insane. It uses numbers close to what one would achieve with a Weiand Stealth or Edelbrock Performer RPM. Thus if you are using a stock GM 4 bbl intake you should subtract, on a built 350, roughly 40 hp from its totals. Or, if using an Edelbrock Performer, subtract about 20 hp.

laiky

on a budget:

355, cast pistons ( hypereutectic if you can swing it) stock cut crank and rods, with arp bolts.

comp 268 hydraulic cam complete package with upgraded vortec heads ( i would stay at 9.5 compression no more, regardless of what some might say).

note: you could run a mild cam with the vortecs, and save money by not upgrading them. they flow great and would help a mild cam greatly. this might also be more drivable.

weiand stealth or performer lowrise for emissions, rpm if not.

it will run through manifolds ok ( the high perf ones not the LG4 ones) and you can add headers later as money allows.

get comp roller tipped rockers with the knurled ball ( you don't need full rollers ( don't forget the budget ) stock pushrods are probably strong enough but you really have to check geometry!!

oh yeah with the self aligning rockers that the vortecs use you don't need hardened push rods so that saves money too.

i'm sure this will get torn apart by others, but in reality its close to your budget and plenty strong for even weekend bracket racing.

don't fall into the big cam trap ( good heads are whats really important).

and don't fall into the " a little better trap " i did and a $2500 dollar motor became a $5000 motor.

I wan't to build a economical motor for my brothers car as a gift when i can afford it so i've thought alot about what i would have done differently.

laiky

by the way,

the 268 with vortec's in 8.5 or 9.0 355 made about 400/400 in either CHP or hotrod i forget.

it had a better induction setup and real headers

laiky

one more time:

if you have a roller block, scoggin dickey has the hot cam for 175, and vortec's set up for it , for about 300 each

RedFirebird

Want torque?

Check this DD pull someone did for me on the motor going into my '85 vette.

BTW i pulled that cam out and i'm going with something a little better suited to my engine (more torque! ).

CamaroDriver

That's one of the idiosyncracies that SittingBull was talking about.

The first thing I see that's wrong is using the "Roller" lifter option on a LT4 cam. If the "somone" that did that for you would read the instructions then he'd understand why.

And I would never put a cam like that in a TPI because it would not do very well. The TPI option on DD2000 is totally unrealistic.

I guess the only true way is to take it to a real dynomometer. Like ede said, it's really only good for seeing what changes are made to what engine.

titeride85

Hey Red, he said a budget of $1000. You have almost that much in the heads alone. You also have a 383. He said that is not in his plans.

I strongly agree with laiky. Although I would say splurge for the hedman headers. Uncoated and with the y-pipe you will still be under $200. You will be limited on only a grand though. If you buy modified vortecs, that is $600 gone right away. If you want the power but dont want to buy the new heads, port your heads as sitting bull said and do all the other stuff laiky said. I personally would go with the RPM intake, Crane's stamped 1.6 rockers, a good 650 carb, XE268 cam, Hedman headers, about 9.5 CR, and .040 quench area. If you do your own heads, this combo will give you decent hp, good torque, and a few bucks left to fill the tank a time or two.

Sitting Bull

You are obviously a man of uncommon breeding and intelligence

Well stated

snowbird

I actually had a set of headmen shorties given to me, so that's what I'll be using. Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate it.

Mark

laiky

if you are considering the roller cam, put the money towards the modified vortec's and get a hydraulic flat tappet cam instead

laiky

I also do not reccommend uncoated headers, regardless of price or what material there made of, they will cost you plenty of ignition problems

evil t/a

Thhats funny , I have had uncoated headers on my car for six years , plus I have had them on 4 mustangs( 67 ,83, 85 ,87) and have had a header related ignotion problem yet.

laiky

i have the slp 1 3/4, with afr's. in some places its so tight its hard to get the boot over the plug. I see it as an insurance/longevity issue. besides the lower underhood temps and power advantages. I don't know off the top of my head what headers have what interferance problems with what hjeads. 3rd gens are particularly tight

What headers/head combo are you running?

F-BIRD'88

Check out Competition Products web site
www.competitionproducts.com
They are cheap and in your state and will ship to your door.

Tons of good basic hop up stuff for budget buildups
just like yours.

Check out my setup in my "readers ride"
on this site. It's about as basic as you can get for the money.
ran 13.44 @104 with the stock converter and th700r4.
Very responsive to say the least. easy street manors......
has 4.10's but a 3.42 rear gear would be plenty....


https://www.thirdgen.org/rides/index...ew&rideid=7360