grafx

Did you know that switching from one spark plug manufacturer to another can effect your smog results?? It's true, when I first purchased my 91' Camaro I gave it a tune up including changing the plugs, I used NGK's. On one portion of the test I barely past. I had old results from the previous owner that was in the paper work for the car, on those tests the car past without a problem. I did think much of it the car still past and ran fine so I forgot about it. This year I took it in again and before doing so I gave it a tune up again, but this time I went back to AC Delco brand plugs what it had originaly had in it when I bought the car. This time the car past all test with flying colors. Couldn't understand why it did better this time until just the other day when someone was explaining to me that who the plug is manufatered by can actually effect the results of a smog test, It may not effect the performance only the smog results, but even on some cars the engine may not run right. Thought maybe you guys might find this interesting.

Also some other interesting info I found out about plugs. Such as the Split Fires (a.k.a. Crap Fires). Probably not everyone knows this so I'll go ahead and explain real quick, if you held a hot plug up to a cold plug for the same engine they would look identical, length, width, everthing the same. What determines its heat range is how much of the porcelin is bonded to the outter metal shell. In other words the porcelin runs down into the metal outter shell right?! The porcelin may only be partially bonded to the metal, this would be a hot plug because it's not capable of disapating the heat as quickly. One where the porcelin is bonded the entire length of the metal shell would be a cold plug because the heat is transfered much quicker. Now back to the Crap Fires they don't take this into account when manufacturing their plugs they make a few universal plugs that fit a wide range of vehicles. This can cause overheating and possably damage an engine. Plus there statement about increasing the spark is crap, voltage always takes the path of least resistance so spliting the ground elctrode like they do wont do the least bit of good, the spark will still only choose one side to jump from, it's not going to split into 2 seperate sparks.

Another thing just to help save some of you a few extra bucks when buying plugs. For those of use driving 3rd gens, stay away from the double platnum plugs, there a waste of money, they are only intended for DIS systems. And for those purchasing platnum plugs they do not improve performance like many of you believe they are mainly to stretch the life span of the plug. The Bosch X4 are the same they do not increase spark, only life span. That's why alot of these new cars have the long waranty programs, like 50,000 miles bumper to bumper and so on platnum is just able to with stand the abuse for a longer period of time.

what I was told as far as what manufacture to stick with is

Asian cars - NGK
Ford - Autolite
GM - AC Delco
European - Bosch

jfox55

daaaaammmm, is that your girlfriend in your sig. If not, I bet you wish it was. SHe is fine.
Now back to the plugs, that was some really good information. I was just about to make a post about what does colder plugs and hotter plugs mean. So you are saying that they only difference between a cold plug and the hot plug is how much metal is in contact with the porceline. The spark is not effected???
How do you determine how hot or cold of plug to use. Is there like a ratio, or do you just have to use your predetermined recommendations??

TomP

Oh-kay, I see some corrections are in order... but good overall info. Hot plugs vs Cold plugs are the same, regardless of manufacturer. And as to "making a few universal plugs", that's not just Splitfire. What do you think the rest of the spark plug manufacturers do? Take AC plugs- think an R45TS is somehow different than an AC R44TS? Nope! They're about as different as a Splitfire SF2C is compared to an SF2D. You only need a few criteria for a spark plug! You don't need one custom designed for every car!

Guess what? A 92 Mustang, 5.0 V8, uses an AC R43TS plug. So what's the same between GM and Ford? R =resistor, 4=14mm, T=taper seat, S=extended tip. Guess that means AC makes a few unversal plugs that fit a wide range of vehicles. And to quote you, "This can cause overheating and possably (sic) damage an engine." Hm. So does this mean we shouldn't use AC plugs, either? Look at the rapid fires! There is a grand total of (drum roll) 12 universal rapid fire plugs. AC part #s 1 through 12. (Strange numbers!) Guess what AC4 fits? According to AC's web site, it fits 5067 cars. For fun, the rapidfire that fits your car, part #2, also fits 3528 others, including a '97 Ford F250 pickup, a '73 Mercury Montego, and a '76 Plymouth Duster.

If you take any spark plug, and use the wrong heat range, you'll cause problems. Just like the idiots that used too cold of a Splitfire, complaining that their engines broke, they ran poorly, they pulled the plug, and (gasp) it was covered with oil! Oh No! So they sued Splitfire. But meanwhile, they didn't know about heat ranges- and cold plugs don't reach their self-cleaning temperature as quickly, and if they don't clean, they build up with deposits, and start fouling- instant "poorly running engine"! Use too hot of a plug and youll get pinging. It goes for any spark plug, not just Splitfires.

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Plus there statement about increasing the spark is crap, voltage always takes the path of least resistance so spliting the ground elctrode like they do wont do the least bit of good, the spark will still only choose one side to jump from, it's not going to split into 2 seperate sparks.

Well, whoever thinks the Splitfires are meant to split into 2 sparks is an absolute moron.. and should probably buy some Slick50 and change the muffler bearings. You're right, electricity only makes one path- the shortest. But you're wrong in that Splitfire never claimed to do such a thing! Look at their pictures of a plug firing- what do you see? One Spark. Know what splitfires were meant to do? They were meant to act as a cut plug would, but last longer. The idea was to expose more of the spark to the air/fuel mix- NOT to split the spark into two. In fact, check out their website! Notice what the main page says- and notice the picture. (Ignore the spinning platinum plug) One spark, and meant to expose the flame better. http://www.splitfire.com/splitfire.htm But most people see a "split electrode", and think the spark splits into a V, without ever reading about what the company themselves say. (Don't ask me about the twin-core Splitfire spark plug wires, they don't make sense.)

A cut plug does the same thing- but the ground electrode could get eaten up quickly, and the gap would increase.

I'm not paid by Splitfire (because I "sense" that question from some people!), but I used those plugs for 6 years, changing them every year. I know they don't add 50 HP, hell I'd be surprised if they add 1 HP, but I used them. After buying the car with 65,000 miles on it, and it now has 237,000 miles, Splitfires never ruined my engine. I use AC plugs now because the Splitfire center electrode gets "eaten" by my MSD 6AL/Blaster SS combination. When I "just" had an Accel Supercoil, the Splitfires were fine.

But you were correct about the heat range. A lot of people have no idea what a heat range is... or that it's been marked on the plugs they've been using for years. And you could use any plug, not just a splitfire, with the wrong heat range, and wind up with a poorly running motor. Hell, even gapping the plug wrong could do the same thing.

PS- Nobody should still be paying $5.95 for a regular (not platinum) splitfire. Splitfire dropped the price to $3.99 a few years ago- but the local stores won't tell you that. To save that $$, order through a place like summitracing.com - they've had the correct price since it changed... I think that happened in '97 or 98. I even called Splitfire once on the local Pep Boys- the guy I talked to was annoyed that PB was still charging $5.95, and apologized to me, and said he'd take care of it. I guess Pep Boys wasn't scared, I think they still charge that.

WaynesRS

I thought ford was motorcraft ?

grafx

I wasn't saying that every car has problems with crap fires, only a few i've heard about had major overheating problems using the number plug that crap fire recommended for that vehicle. Next time you go to a parts store ask to see where they store their spark plugs, you'll notice that A/C Delco, Bosch, NGK, etc., all the major brands wil take up quite a bit of space on there shelves. Then look at where the split fires are at, they maybe have 1 shelf. Now who do you think is going to have better designed plugs for a wider range of vehicles?? The last time I remembered seeing a picture of a split fire it looked like the flame was split. All of there claims of improving hp and gas milage is all a bunch of crap, you can't improve any of that by merly installing a set of plugs. The only way your going to improve on those 2 is by replacing old plugs with new ones, and that's exactly how they get away with making those claims. They are riding a fine line on false advertisement. The only thing that the crap fires do is extend the life of the plug by allowing the spark to contact more of the center electrode. Sparks like to jump from sharp edges so by allowing it to jump from more surface area the life of the plug is extended. There's quite a few others out there doing the same thing, U-grooves, V-grooves, theres even one with the center electrode spaped like a star. All of these are designed to do one thing and one thing only, extend the life of the plug.

You would have a better plug if you just split the ground electrode on one of your cheap brand plugs rather than spending the money on a Crap Fire!! But hey if you like blowing your money on false dreams then by all means continue.

Sciguyjim

Only a few things determine the heat range of a plug, none have anything at all to do with the spark. Besides how much metal touches the porcelin, the length of the porcelin insulator makes a difference too. A plug with a short insulator will lose heat from the tip rapidly to the block where it's screwed in and will be called a cool plug. A plug with a longer tip will lose heat slower so the tip stays hotter, so it's a hot plug. The tips should get up to something like 700°F to prevent oil and carbon fouling, but if they get too hot they can preignite the new fuel/air mixture before it's ready to be ignited, then you hear pinging. All plugs are meant to be used under a variety of conditions. For normal use, just go with the heat range suggested by the manufacturer. If you do a lot of slow driving in town and get worried about carbon buildup, take the car out on the expressway for a while. The higher speed will burn off some of the excess carbon. Copper core plugs are good because their tips come up to operating temp quickly but excess heat is rapidly carried away by the copper core so they don't get too hot.

TomP

I bet they have one shelf because not too many people buy them?

And I coulda sworn I just told you what's needed to make a spark plug. Heat range? Thread size? Tip design? Resistor or non-resistor?. That's it. Did you even read my example of multiple AC plugs fitting multiple cars? What about the AC Rapidfires- there's only 10 plugs, but they fit many cars! Here's another one. Your plug, AC R45TS, also fits an '87 Dodge W150 Pickup, with the 225ci L6, VIN H. Why is that? You seem to think that AC has a million plug #s, each specially designed for a single application. (Should I mention the Rapidfires again? Why doesn't AC have 3000 part #s for Rapidfires?)

I've never seen a split flame or a split spark on any of their boxes. Maybe you saw somebody's doctored image, or maybe they told you what they "thought" they saw?

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The only thing that the crap fires do is extend the life of the plug by allowing the spark to contact more of the center electrode. Sparks like to jump from sharp edges so by allowing it to jump from more surface area the life of the plug is extended. There's quite a few others out there doing the same thing, U-grooves, V-grooves, theres even one with the center electrode spaped like a star. All of these are designed to do one thing and one thing only, extend the life of the plug.

Well, I can tell that you don't want to listen, but I'll repeat myself anyway. The Splitfire was designed to copy a "cut" plug, to expose more of the spark to the cylinder. However, a cut plug wears down fast at the tip. A Splitfire allows for a normal length ground electrode, while trying to unshroud the spark. Whether it works or not is a different matter, but now we're arguing about spark plug design. Even people with cut plugs don't notice a huge drastic improvement!!

Think about it- why would I split the ground electrode? That would create (gasp) a Splitfire, and you don't seem too fond of them. Have you ever seen a cut plug? I never said I had false dreams. I never even expected to feel any extra power. I was actually trying to lower my emissions. I even indexed my plugs once, and didn't feel a difference. So what were my false dreams about? Please tell me. Er, in fact, don't. I'm not about to turn this into a screaming match. If you don't want to listen, that's fine. The main point I was trying to make is that all plugs are universal, as long as certain conditions are met. Hell, just think of spark plug wires. You think spark plug wire makers test out every wire on every single possible car ever made? No! They have a list of plug wire lengths, and what type of ends the wires should have. Does that mean we should stick with Packard, and shouldn't buy Taylor or MSD or Accel or NGK or Moroso or Crane or Holley? In fact, isn't it odd that we can buy rolls of spark plug wire, and packages of connectors, and make our own plug wires? Not really, because plug wires don't need to be specially designed for each car. If that were so, you couldn't buy a "universal V8" plug wire set.

grafx

yes true length of the tip can determine cold or hot also. But for the most part what I was trying to get across is that you can have 2 plugs exaxtly identical to each other but one being cold and one being hot based on how much is bonded.

bigals87z28

whoha... hey i just bought r43ts's for my 305... are they the wrong ones... they are ac delco... i work at a parts store and this is my first tune up the car myself... i saw the r45ts for the 350's... someone help me.. im gunna hit the computer at work... stupid computer.... *** dam it!! alright im gunna check at work... ill get a faster answer then posting this... too late i hit submit... anyway...

grafx

Hey TomP did you listen to a single work I said?? I never at any time said that every engine application required it's own plug, that would be rediculous, of course there are several other makes and models that run off the same plug. What I was saying is that with Split Fire making fewer plugs for a widder range of vehicles somewhere down the road someone is going to have problems with them. You can't say that everycar will run fine with them based upon your experience with them, they may have worked perfectly fine in your Camaro or whatever else you used them in. I'm not saying that ever car will have problems with them, but there have been a handful of people who have, and yes TomP they were using the recommended plugs for their engine application. The reason why I said you should just split the electrode on your own set of plugs is because of the compatability problems that some people have had with the Split Fires. Sorry I guess I have to break all this down Barney style for you because it seems you don't understand what it is I'm saying. Next time try listing to what the other person is telling you. We can argue all night as to what benifits a split electode has to offer so we'll just leave it like it is.

TomP

Ohkay, I was never trying to start an argument here, but did you read any of my examples? As far as I know, there are only 12 AC Rapidfires. Does the same thing apply to them (fewer plugs for a wider range of vehicles)?

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I'm not saying that ever car will have problems with them, but there have been a handful of people who have, and yes TomP they were using the recommended plugs for their engine application. The reason why I said you should just split the electrode on your own set of plugs is because of the compatability problems that some people have had with the Split Fires. Sorry I guess I have to break all this down Barney style for you because it seems you don't understand what it is I'm saying.

Again, never tried to start a war, but, whatever. Splitting the electrode on a factory set of plugs would probably do more harm than good. Barney style? Isn't that the purple elephant or something?

grafx

I don't know, are the AC Rapid Fires recommended for as many vehicles as the Split Fires??