Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Let me recap everything here and maybe someone can offer some other solutions.
The engine specs are in the signature so you can gather info there.
Here is my list of engine related problems. They may be related or unrelated....not sure yet: The idle is very erratic..it will bounce around in about a 200-400 RPM swing. After driving a while it stalls at idle when I come to a stop and I have no idea why. Also I have a problem with heat-soak in the starter now that I never had before and the engine isn't running hot at all....temp is like 160-170 only.
Also there is a NASTY power loss between 1500-2000 RPM's that I can't track down. It happens in any gear, cold or hot, and pretty much all the time, not intermittent.
Finally, I threw a code 13 the other day for about 30 seconds. That's the code for a lean O2 reading at warm cruise.

Now here is what I've done already. I've checked for vac leaks and found none, plugged my old computer chip back in and still had all the same problems (except the code which hasn't come back since the first time), replaced the TPS which was good anyway, replaced the pick-up coil yesterday, all other sensors are new, tried checking all my grounds (although if it was that I think the problem would be more intermittent), coil is a new MSD but I put my old one back in tonight just in case, wires and plugs are new, cap and rotor also new as of tonight.

Here are the only other thoughts I have left: Bad ignition module (but I think that it would give me trouble at other RPM's too??), maybe the IAC or O2 sensor is no good (the car passed inspection with very low emissions last week), somethings up with my torque converter (wouldn't I see a change in RPM's when I hit the dead spot if that was it??), loss of fuel pressure at that RPM range (why just in that spot though?), other than that I am absolutely stumped!!

Vader

Paul,

What have you done with the IAC?

RB83L69

Sounds to me like you're lean at all RPMs, just leaner at some than others... see if the problem responds to increased fuel pressure; if so, consider spending some time on the DIY PROM board.

"Starter heat soak" is code for "starter too weenie in the first place". Get yourself a better starter. I'd suggest one of the aftermarket mini-starters; I have the CVR one on my 400, works so much better than the stock one that it's hard to believe.

ATOMonkey

The O2 sensor causes erratic idle. It will also cause poor part throttle performance. What looks like starter heat soak can also be too much initial spark advance. Make sure that the dist hold down hasn't come loose, and it would probably be a good idea to check your timing anyway. If you say you are lean all the time w/ no loss of performance at upper RPM, that could be FPR, but not ign.

MikeH

iTrader: (10)

How was the chip tuned? Sounds like you just need to do some fuel and spark tuning. Mine acted the same way at first, with ALOT of tuning I have it performing good all around. I chased what I thought was an igntion problem for months. It wasnt until I started burning my own proms and tuning that I realized the problem was in the fuel and spark curves. It was lean on the topend and rich on the lowend for the most part.

Make sure the IAC motor is snug in the TB. I had a problem with stalling because it had worked its way loose.

My battery was weak and gave me hot start problems. It worked fine except when a heavy load was placed on it like starting a hot motor.

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

The IAC is new. I originally set it according to the tech article on the board, but had to turn the idle up some more to keep the car running. I might try taking it out and cleaning it.

I still don't feel that the chip is a possibility. Why would I have exactly the same dead spot in the RPM range with my old chip also??

I am going to try and double check the fuel pressure tonight. Maybe I'm setting it wrong?? I disconnected the vac line from the AFPR to the plenum and turned the key to the on position. Once there I adjusted the pressure to 50 psi. Do I need to plug the vac line that I disconnected??
I didn't say I was lean all the time....I just happened to throw the code 1 time for about 30 seconds.

The timing should have been fine, plus after replacing the pickup coil I reset it.

As far as the starter being "too wimpy", I don't really think so. It was fine on my old engine. I don't see how it would all of a sudden not be good enough anymore??

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Ok well I tried a new ignition module and this didn't help.
Now I've got a new O2 sensor in it and I'm going out for a quick drive to test it out.

I do have one quesiton that is kind of sticking in my mind though. Maybe I'm not setting my fuel pressure correctly?? Are you supposed to set it with the car running or just with the key in the on position?? I've been doing it with only the key in the on position. Would this cause an inaccurate enough reading to be causing my problems?? Also if I am setting it wrong could this have damaged my new engine??

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Just an update: The new O2 sensor showed no improvements in either the dead spot or the erratic idle problems.

Tomorrow I will throw the Fuel Pressure gauge on it when it's light out so I can see. Still waiting for my question about setting the pressure to be answered.

Thanks

MikeH

iTrader: (10)

I set my fuel pressure with the car idleing vacuum line pluged. The guy that burned the chip should have given you a pressure to run the car at with his chip. If you dont use the same pressure the tuning will be off.

You really need some way of seeing what the block learns are. And whats going on in the computer.

Get a scanner on it and see just how close the tuneup is and go from there. Do you have the knock sensor and EGR working?

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

I will hopefully be getting a scanner on it friday. In the meantime here is the latest: The new O2 sensor didnt' help. I reset the FP to 50 PSI with the car idling and the vac disconnected. When driving there was no pressure drop when I hit the dead spot.
These are the ideas I am going to try tomorrow: First I am going to jack up the FP to like 60 to see if that fixes my problem. Then if that doesn't help I am going to disconnect my knock sensor and see if it stops. Finally I will try dropping the timing down to like 4-6 degrees. It is at about 8 degrees right now.

Is there such a thing as too much fuel pressure?? I don't mean like just dumping tons of fuel into the engine, but would 55 or 60 PSI be too high??

todd200

Have you checked to see if you cat is clogged? It doesn't seem likely with you passing emissions and it only happening at a specific rpm range, but I have seen it 1 time before. The car had a low erratic idle and would bog out badly at about 1000 to 2000 rpm. When the rpm was higher the exhaust would force itself out. I doubt this is the answer but it couldn't hurt to check.

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the suggestion, but the cat is new also.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

:hail:winaldl:hail: JoBy's program kicks ***! and its free!

8Mike9

Most likely because the "Custom Chip", has just a few minor changes to it, as compared to the stock one.

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

I don't know. I mean I know that burning the chip myself would have been the best option, but I have heard that Ed Wright at Fastchips is supposed to be the man??

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Ok well I've tried 2 other things now and have been unsuccessful. First this morning I tried jacking the fuel pressure up to like 60 and had no change. Then I unplugged my knock sensor and it still didn't get any better. The funny thing is that when I drove it with the sensor unplugged it didn't set off the SES light. I did only drive it for about 10 minutes time to see if the problem went away, but I thought for sure it would have been in instantaneous light??
The only thing I have left to try is turning back the timing, but now that the knock sensor has been disconnected I don't think this will even be a possibile fix, but I'm getting desperate.

I definately need to try and get this thing on a scanner tomorrow.

Also to go along with the rest of the bad luck, when I was under the car unplugging the knock sensor there was oil on my pan, starter, and flywheel cover. I'm guessing that my rear main seal is leaking AGAIN!! How the hell could I have 2 leaking rear mains in less that 500 miles on a new engine??!! The only thing that might save my butt from pulling the trans and putting another one in is that I recently switched oil pans and maybe it's leaking between the rear main seal housing and the pan gasket?

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Dropping the timing back to 4 degrees didn't help either. I sure hope I can get a hold of a scanner tomorrow.

Also upon closer inspection my oil leak seems to be the rear corner of my oil pan gasket. I'm going to remove the starter and try tightening the bolts a little this weekend. Atleast if I have to change that, it's easier than the rear main seal.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

get winaldl. its free and it does all that stuff. do a search on this site for winaldl. All you need to do is make a cable, which is pretty easy to do.

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Yes the software is free, but don't you need a laptop??? I definately couldn't justify that expense at this point, but would love to in the future.

Anyway I have 2 more ideas that I'm going to try today. Maybe my MAF is bad?? It's the original and it sat around for a year....might have been banged around too much or gotten wet.
If not, then maybe the computer bit the bullet on me. I'll try tapping lightly on it or twisting it a bit to see if it causes a short to become aparrent.

Vader

PR,

While you're there doing the "tap test", you can check the connections by unplugging and reseating them a couple of times to clean the connections. Make sure teh battery is dosconnected or the ECM fues is removed before you do this.

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Ok I'm just about at the point of snapping with this problem. I've officially tried everything that could be causing the engine to run like this, I think.
Today I tried installing a new MAF sensor, No Help!! I reinstalled the old one and then tried installing a new ECM, No Help!!

I am definately out of ideas and I don't know when I'll be able to get this on a scanner, but I've changed just about everything.

I'm going to start looking into it being a transmission problem, but I don't see how it would be......everytime the hesitation/dead spot occurs the RPM's drop like 500-900, even when I'm doing like 55 in OD I think.
I'll probably try disconnecting the TV cable and going for a short ride to see if anything is different, but I haven't even opened it up full throttle yet so I don't know if this will help.

Any other ideas would greatly be appreciated right now!

MikeH

iTrader: (10)

I know someone already mentioned this, could you have a blocked cat? I know you said its new but It doesnt take long to burn one up. My car acted the same way as yours, when I first installed the 406. Mine ran really rich...Tuning the BLs and clearing the blocked exhaust fixed it.

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

I highly doubt that it's clogged since it has 600 miles on it and I passed state inspection 2 weeks ago with very low emissions.
Is there an easy way to test it?

8Mike9

Paul,

Just avfew things, an cheap laptop to run the SW is just a few bones...definitely less than all the aprts cost's you've thrown at it/

Rant time:

Always amazes me when someone will spend several hunderd in parts that "may" be the problem, instead of a few hundred for the tools to diag the problem correctly.

End rant:

To check for you cat, you can either monitor backpressure via the O2 bung...should be less than 1.5PSI at 3000RPMs, or you can take an initial vacuum reading at idle (is the vacuum steady, anyways..?) and run the engine up to 3000 RPMs and compare to the initial reading, if it drops more than 1-2 in/hg, shows restriction in the exhaust.

Both tests done in neutral/park.

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

I actually started looking into a cheap laptop today, but I won't really know what I'm looking at when I get it so I'll have to rely on the boards to help me decipher everything.

As far as shotgunning parts into the car, it's not something I generally like to do, but I haven't paid for any of these yet. Working at an auto parts store during college has its advantages. I can buy parts, try them, and return them immediately after if they don't help. The only new part I left in was the O2 sensor and I wrote the old one up as a defect.

I still need to try and fix this problem in less than the time it takes to get a laptop and make a cable. I was going to put a vac gauge on it tomorrow anyway, so now I'll use it to test the cat for backpressure.

todd200

I don't know much about the 700R4 trans but if you still have a locking torque converter maybe its trying to lock up. This could cause an eratic idle due to engine load and poor acceleration if if it locked too early. Just a guess. Wish you all the luck.

8Mike9

Lol, that's cheating

Morley

Laptops can be had cheap on E bay, I got a P133 laptop for $74 and it works great. As far as a cable, you can build the simple 160 BAUD cable for about $4 from Raido Shack parts and takes maybe an hour to assemble. And as mentioned, WinALDL is free, as is Craig's software.
As an experiment, clear all the codes from the ECM and drive the car around until it stalls at idle, then check it for codes. It sounds like you have several problems happening at once.

The starter heat soaking might simply be a weak starter or possibly bad wire from the battery to starter that can't carry a load when it warms up.

Can you describe the "nasty power loss" better? If you floor the throttle does the engine hesitate when it passes through that RPM range? Or is it more like you hit that RPM while just crusing and the engine kind of "bogs" or seems to loose RPM's? If it is the latter it just might be the converter hitting lock up and maybe not wanting to come out of it.

Have you tried adjusting the TV cable? Try this; adjust the cable just like the manual says, collapse it all the way with the throttle closed, snap the throttle to WOT by turning the linkage ( not using the gas pedal) then let it back to closed, next extend the cable another 1 or 2 notches and take it for a drive.

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

I am going to look into getting a laptop this week, but I want to fix this ASAP.

The power loss is just while I'm cruising and sometimes when I'm accelerating. I haven't floored the throttle at all yet because I want to wait a few thousand miles, and I haven't welded in my SFC's yet.
If it is the torque converter trying to lock up or not unlocking will that most likely be a problem with the converter or the PROM setting? Does WINALDL read converter lockup??

I do have a slight prob with my TV cable adjustment. Isn't it supposed to be like guitar string tight when the throttle is closed? I pulled it all the way back and it still doesn't get that tight, I mean it's not really loose, but not as tight as my old one.
Also when I adjust it why should I do it by hand and not with the pedal?? Won't that pull if forward too far?? I'm pretty sure that the pedal doesn't open it as far as I can by hand. Finally when you say extend the cable another 1 or 2 notches do you mean move the housing forward or back another 1 or 2??

Oh yeah and I haven't had any starter heat soak problems in like a week and a half now. No idea why.

Morley

You use the linkage to set the TV cable because some travel of the throttle can be lost in the pedal linkage and cable flex.
To set the cable push in on the metal button and retract the housing all the way and let go of the button. Next open the throttle all the way and observe the cable housing, it will extend. Let the throttle close, depress the metal button and extend the cable 1 more notch. Take the car for a drive and see how it does, if it is still not right, try extending the cable 1 more notch.
Also while driving the car, get to a steady speed (about 50 mph) and keep your foot on the gas to maintain speed, with your left foot tap the brakes while looking at the tach, you should see the RPM go up a little (200 or so) then go back down, this is the torque converter unlocking and relocking.

Another place to look is your muffler, is it old and plugged maybe?

Also, with a new engine you just need to get 500 miles on it to break it in good, then change the oil and filter. After that you can get on it without fear. As far as the SFC's not being welded in yet...just don't try to do a holeshot launch, just get the car moving and give it about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle and see if the power problem is affecting it still.

Paul Riccioli Jr

iTrader: (1)

Morley you've definately pointed me in the right direction with the TV Cable. Please everyone refer to my new post entitled "Finally got a good lead on my problem, now help me pinpoint and fix it"