Christos

Here is the first part if you haven't read it yet: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...5&pagenumber=1

Grab a drink, and get ready to spend a hour or so on the read.

<b>UPDATE:</b> Well, I received a letter from the company who ran my engine without oil a few months ago, and here is the statement they make, exact quote:

"Oil industry tests have clearly established that the amount of residual oil remaining in your filter and engine, after draining your oil pan, would be sufficient to lubricate the engine parts. These oil industry tests have been performed at high sustained RPM'S for extended distance. In this case, your car was driven through a parking lot at 5-10mph."

It sounds like they were quoting an informercial to me, remember those? I work in marketing, and I know how BS some of these, "tests" are.

I called their company up, acted like someone else, and asked, "What brands of oil do you use for basic oil changes". They replied, "Castrol, Exxon, and Valvoline". Im not sure which was used in my car, but it had to be one of the only three they carry.

So I called up every one of those oil companies. Every one of them said, "That is a false statement, and our company will NOT back that up".

Actually, every one of those 3 oil companies were great to talk to. Very professional, and helpful. I was pretty impressed, I thought it would be hard to reach someone who could give me this information.

When I told Castrol about this, the lady got mad about it, and said that their company had done an informercial with their synthetic line a long time ago, where they drained the oil out of the engine and let it run until it wore down and seized. She also said that, "it's BS, it wouldn't work, we don't support that in a real-life situation, and our company won't stand by this written statement they gave you, the jerks".

Of course, i hadn't had synthetic in it now, or before the oil change either, so that wouldn't hold up for them well in court I don't think.

She got mad and she wanted the name of the company. I gave it to her, and she is letting the Castrol district manager out there know about this written false statement they had given me. Not sure if they will do anything or not, but still makes me feel good to know that every oil company I called backs ME up, and says that the shop is "full of it".

They all said I could give their company phone numbers in court, and they would tell the judge the same thing if he needs to call in. I hope this will help my case.


Besides that, the BBB can't get a letter through to that company. They closed my case already because the letters, "won't go through". I had sent a registered letter to the same address I have given the BBB, which arrived, and was signed for, so I think they might be refusing the letters. Im having the BBB try sending the letter off once more.

As for the California BAR, im still waiting on my rep to get busy. She hasn't even touched my case yet, these months later. Im going to call her often now, to get her on things.

Ill post more once I have more information.

Thanks for the read, and all of the help so far everyone!

CraZ-28

Ride it out brotha. That is such crap and they know it. If everything works in your favor, you could get your engine replaced easily. Plus buy a house, another car, a boat, etc. If they are serious, you can sue the hell out of them and get a lot out of it. Now getting money is nice, but getting compensated for thier wrong doing is sweet.

Christos

Im just going to take them to small claims court, not sue them for millions. That's not the way I work at all. I hate lawsuits, and all of that BS. I would love to just drop this whole thing, and if it was anything BUT my car, I would have already.

They refuse to do anything about this, but I have written engine estimates from 3 different chevy dealers, and I will include all of my expenses into the suit, once it comes to that.


Also, a Valvoline rep called me just now. Really cool guy, he is going to get me a written statement that Valvoline doesn't support their statement.

We talked on the phone back and forth, and I mentioned Castrol. He said, "wow! Castrol is a bunch of hard-as§es! their lawyer team rocks!" He want on to say that Valvoline and Castrol were friends.

Apparently some company had dissed Castrol, and their lawyers had cracked down hard and fast and solved things. Valvoline backed Castrol up, so they work together a bit now. Cool stuff I think.

All I know is, <b>if for some reason I lose the case</b>, im going to see who I can contact at Castrol/Valvoline, and see if I can get them to stop supplying that company with their oil.

If I can get them to do that, then ill call other major oil companies, and inform them about those two companies not supplying oil to that mechanic place, because of their false statement. Then call the news, and local newspapers and tell them the story. Kind of like big-time slander i guess. I hate to be venomous like that, but if I can't get them to pay for the damages or anything, or I lose the court case, you better bet ill spend a few more hours on the phone trying to do something!

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

Note to self: Do not **** off Christos.

ronterry

Without reading the book on Park 1, where was this at?
I lived in Aurora for over ten years Rangeview '87

Ron

Amrish

LOL evilcartman....


Good luck man, get those basterds....

Christos

I haven't given the name out yet. Im waiting till it's over with before I do it.

It ISN'T in Colorado though, the shop is in Aliso Viejo, CA. I just moved back out here.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Mobil sued Castrol for saying their Syntec is a synthetic. It's base stock is produced from petroleum, although special processes are used to produce a better lubricant than "normal" refined petroleum.

Castrol won out, and that base stock is now called a special designation of synthetic (I've got the info at home - if I find it, I'll post).

In 1990, I ran my '80 Citation with a broken oil pump (literally broken) for 3.5 miles of stop-&-go before I realized what was going on. This happened the day after it turned over 150k miles. It had had AMSOIL in the crankcase since 65k miles. When replacing the pump, the bearings plastigaged within spec. It had another 100k miles put on it before the body fell off around the engine.

You'll be putting synthetic into your replacement engine, right?

Christos

Yep, after the initial break in rith regular oil (500 miles?), i plan on using full synthetic.

Z_Ghost

Keep fighting them Christos
.

lopoetve

Good luck from the new guy...

And in Colorado, if you own your house, you can do WHATEVER you want on your own property (driveway, garage) and the Homeowners Covenant can legally do NOTHING to stop you (from my Lawyer aunt, and my family's own run-ins).

Good luck, man, and if you need moral support, I'm close!

SSC

Non thirdgen but funny. My Aunt got her oil changed at the Wall Mart Super Center a week ago, 99 Toyota Avalon. Well they did put oil in it but forgot to put a filter back on, the suker burned up in less then 2 miles. The best she could get out of the deal is a used "like" engine. Some retards.

TomP

Glad to hear you're getting somewhere with this, man! That's cool that the oil companies are backing you up on it- especially if they're willing to be called by the courts! Keep us posted!

Vader

Excellent choice. I KNEW you were smarter than the average guy...

camaro-mayhem

christos = the man

can i borrow 20 bucks when this thing is settled...

poorboy8

Dude, what you should do is build up a website totally bashing these guys!

There was a guy out here in the MD, VA area that bought a Durango that was supposed to be the 5.9 R/T rig.....anyway they (Ourisman Dodge) ended up badging a run of the mill Durango and making it seem as though he was buying the R/T when in fact it was a plain ol' Durango with a couple of options on it. Anyway, he tried to take them to court and what not and didnt get very far with it, so he bought up all of the Ourisman domains before they had even built up a website. Too make a long story short his website had gotten spread around so much in the local area, that the dealership almost came to the point where they had to shut down. They then took him to court trying to get the domain from him as well as sue him for damages, he then counter sued them and ended up settling. I think they settled to the tune of, "give us the Ourisman domains and take down your web sites, and we will provide you with a brand new R/T Durango at the cost of a regular Durango", or something like that.

Yeah man, the website was bad, he would go over there in a monkey suit and take pictures outside of the dealer ship and go on to say that everyone that worked there was a bunch of monkies.........etc etc etc. Shoot he even ran a contest to see who could get a picture with the salesman that he dealth with. The catch being, that the customer had to bent over a car with the salesman bent over him, GET THE PICTURE

Anyway, just an idea

Christos

True. Ive worked on search engine keyword positioning before at work, so that wouldn't be too hard I wouldn't think. Still, i don't want to go to that level yet.

I am faxing their letter to Valvoline today. Hopefully they can give me a written statement like they said they would, it would help me out.

No updates as of yet still. I am contacting the BAR again today, if my rep is in the office for once. Sad that literally 3 months later, they haven't even started on the case yet. : (

jrl9873

Man, I've been following this post for a while, and it just pi$$es me off. I've had so many bad experiences with mechanics and shops....even GM dealerships. I'm sick of it. Here's just a few of the best:

1) dropped off my car to get the brakes replaced, called up to see if it was done. Mechanic says: "well, i've got some good news and some bad news...Good news, brakes are done, bad news, we forgot to latch the hood, and when driving down the road at 40mph it flew up, bent and broke your windshield." OUTCOME: new hood, new windshield, and special treatment for about 5 years until i moved away.

2.) Remanufactured engine installed in my truck, intake gasket blows after 10K miles. Dealership's diagnosis for the cause of early gasket failure: "Its the weather around here, the cold weather will do that" (no joke, this is what the guy told me)

3.) Garage that installed new engine never used any sealant when replacing intake manifold , which caused early failure, they refuse to accept any liability.

4.) looking into buying a new truck last year, and the sales rep at the dealership told me that unless I was willing to write him a check for a down payment, he wouldn't let me test drive the vehicle.

Anyone here from Rochester NY? I'll let you in on the dealerships name!

Christos

<b>UPDATE:</b>

Ok, called up the BAR again. I had my rep look through all of her paperwork, and she said she had originally contacted them on 3-28-02.

She said the owner of the oil change place told her that he didn't know what my complaint was. (I had sent a certified letter, and have the signed receipt, the liar)

She said she faxed him another copy then, and never heard back.

Because Ive been calling more often lately, she said she called him again on 6-20-02, and the owner told her, "This has been settled already". She faxed him the same complaint again, and he never responded.


I got pissed at this point. No it HASN'T been settled. I informed my BAR agent about this, and she said she would call him again today.

Hopefully she will call me within the next 2-3 days. If not, ill call her again. It's obviously the only way to get things moving.

***, 3 months so far. I miss my car.

grimesjm1

Christos... just out of curiosity, how old are you? I imagine you are fairly young and that might have something to do with it. When i was 16 I went and bought studded tires for a truck I had, and instead of waiting around for the tire guy to put the studs in, I asked if I could put the studs in myself with his tools. He agreed and I studded the tires and paid for them. Not till I got home did I realize that I had been assessed a labor charge to stud the tires! It seems this type of person thinks they can take advantage of people if they are younger(or women), and nothing will happen to them. I wish you the best of luck, I get pissed just reading the **** they are doing to you!

Christos

Thanks for the well wishing.

Im 23 years old. I try to be polite and cool as possible about things normally. That has more to do with things im sure.

I normally don't get myself in a situation which will make me mad, becuase I have done some stupid things as a kid before. If i start letting go and yelling, sure, stuff is done 10X times as fast, but I walk a fine line between controlling that anger, and not controlling it. So im willing to take extra time to do things the calm way.

rich88gta

Hang in there man. I have been following this post for a while. What this company is doing is

poorboy8

Dude, at this point I would be like, screw controlling my anger. I would be calling a lawyer and walking into that place with him by my side. I would then begin to tell him to buck up or he is going to have a law suit on his hands. Seriously man, have you talked with a good Attorney/Lawyer, I guarantee you could find one to represent you for a fair cost, that would love to nail a joint like this.

Slade1

Around 88 my parents had an issue with their 86 mustang. My mom had taken it for an oil change and they forgot to put the plug back. The car siezed not more than a few miles from the shop. It was not a clean ordeal and was quite litteraly messy. It came to court and what ended up happening is that since a new engine/rebuild would cost more than the value of the car at the time (had a lot of miles), the shop was only required to pay the value of the car and small compensation for the inconvience of losing a car. The total was just enough to get the 88 camaro I now own from buying off my dad a few years ago. I don't imagine consumer protection laws differ from state to state that much and the general consensus and sum of all the laws are "pay the value of the damaged goods." Odds are they will attempt to go this route if they get a good lawyer as it is entirely legal and with current 3rd gen pricing you're on the shaft end of the deal. This is one of the few times that owning a/c and an auto would work to your benefit as those "add value" to the car. I know this may not be what you want to hear, but its a likely scenario and you should be prepared to face all possibilities.

As for running an engine without oil, you damage the cylinder walls at the least and may/may not show on a compression test as that is worthless. You will also damage to o-rings, the oil pump (its gerotor based and when no oil flows, is not cooled and burns up), and basically the whole engine. It doesn't take a lot of time to seize and whether its a few miles or a few yards, no oil in an engine and run under power will damage quickly. Damage and seize are 2 different situations, but the damage is there and litteraly all components have hurt if it was already making noises and preparing to seize.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Mechanics forgetting to put oil in the engine happens alot more then youd think. I even knew a mechanic who forgot to put oil in the customers car when he did an oil chainge. That sob proceded to break it loose wiht some marvle mystery oil and a breaker bar righ in front of the costomer. Mechanics do screw up. I even lost a door to a mechanic who forgot to close it when he lowered the car. All i hear is "bzzzzzzzzzz... CRUCH!, BANG!!!! They where nice about it though and promptly replaced the door. As for oil starvation, these gm's can take alot of abuse. My mom let her old car (my present day beater) run out of oil and seeze up twice and it overheated and seazed three times!!! Each of the times the mechanic managed to unfreeze it. And it still runs, although the rod knock makes it sound like someone dumped a hardware store in my oil pan.

The moral of the story is to use a shop that you have a longtoime relationship with and trust.

P.S. Good luck on getting those slimy SOB's back!!!

Christos

<b> UPDATE: </b>

My BAR rep just called me. She got a hold of the owner of the oil shop, and she had just received a letter from him which arrived today.

It was a copy of the letter he sent me back in April. My BAR rep then called two Chevy dealers about an engine being run without oil, and they said the same thing I was told, "It ruins it, a engine in good repair with oil/filter changes every 3,000 miles will last 200K-800K miles. Running an engine without oil will cause internal damage, period."

Fortunately I had kept my last receipt from the same shop the last time they changed my oil, and i think i had about 2,400 miles between these last two oil changes by my odometer. I think that will prove I make damn sure to change oil and filter every 3K miles (I usually preemptively jump 3K by 100-200 miles, just so I never go over 3K)

I had kept the receipt for the last oil change because I had had my differential serviced there (new gear oil + posi additive) at the same time. Funny too, because the same shop manager thought that was cool. He said, "wow, nobody ever does that! Good maintenance! Rear ends are the third most common reason why you see cars broken down on the side of the road".

Anyway, my BAR rep is documenting that (the Chevy mechanics she contacted, and their statements) in her report, and will send the info off to the Oil shop owner. He will then review it, and either come forward with an offer of repair, which will be presented to me, or, I have to take them to small claims court, but at least that will be the last step finally.

She did mention to me that if I take it to court, a judge might "pro rate" the amount of money i get, based on my engines condition, and mileage.

I can understand that a bit, because I do have a speck over 100K miles, but at the same time, a pro rate won't get me up and running again. It would put me in the position to have to partially buy a new engine, at a time when I can't do that. All because of this shops mistake.

I don't see how that is fair really. Shop ruins engine, engine had some miles on it, court gives say,"50%" of the money for a new/rebuilt engine to car owner. Car owner has to put himself into a position to partially purchase a new engine:

Shop fault = 100% Car owner faul = 0%.
Shop payment = 50% Car owner payment = 50%.
Looks like bad math.....

Not sure if ill have to argue that in court or not, but my BAR rep knows from her experience that a pro rate is common. Im worried and pissed off a bit too, so excuse my ranting.

If anyone out there is a Chevy mechanic, please shoot me an e-mail. I need as much official written stuff to take to court as possible, and the dealerships I contacted haven't written me anything, just given their phonenumbers. I would hate to tell a judge, "call so-and-so at Chevy dealer #1, he will tell you what I just said".

rich88gta

Ya, pro-rate sucks. I think that getting anything out of these losers would be a miracle though. So if you have to settle for 50%....just run the engine that you have till it kills. By then maybe you will have enough saved up for a bigger and better engine

dacuma

Hey just keep riding it out, trust me I'm about to do the same thing with my girlfriends rode,its new its a lemon, different but still a pain. But I m a ahole some I just going to keep on coming. Yeah that prorating thing really sucks, If I were you I would bring, all the recipts that you have for your car to court, especially maint. on the engine. hope it works out for you.

poorboy8

TTT, any new news? Hope all is going well for ya!

91blkta

If they prorate it drive it till it dies you might be suprised how far you can get take the settlement money put it down on a new or new used car when the old one dies or you could look into a rebuild of the old one before or after it dies or if the car is in bad shape body and susp wise replace it or use good parts from current veh as a parts car for a new one to you there are alot of maros and ta good time to find one with a 350 Another idea is sell the old one or trade it in on a new to you veh and take settlement and trade money for down payment. This is my opion though just throwing a little food for thought in.

Christos

Update:

Well, the BAR finally finished up today.

The shop refuses to pay for anything to fix my engine. Their statement was, "the car was driven without oil @ 5MPH for 200 feet. The battery died, and when the battery was replaced, the car started and ran fine, once oil was added".

They also stated, "the engine ran perfectly" when it was given back to me. Funny, because the owner told me, "the check engine light came on, and the engine was pinging like crazy" when I came to pick it up. (Never did that to me though after I picked it up)

So at this point, I have to file for a small-claims court date, and present everything I have to a judge, and see what happens from there...

Bleh, pretty close to the last step here finally. Hopefully it goes well for me.

JoelOl75

I'd drain the oil out into a container and fly around town (on a day you really don't want to go into work...until she seized up... Then put the oil back in and call a tow...)

Tack on more to the bill...

Sorry.. Just the evil cogs in my head

camaro-mayhem

it should go well for you,and even if you get a pro rate bleh thats better than nothing...and really since the shop seems to have 5 different stories and you have one, youll look a ton better to the judge.I think youll get it too because of the evidence and everything else you have, such as the calls to the dealer and the conversation the bar lady had with them too.:lala:

rich88gta

I also have to admit that you look like you are on the winng side of this stick. I hope everything works out for you. Keep us posted.

dacuma

Hey Christos, Make sure you get Notarized statements from the Mech. at chevy, to show that running a engine without oil will damage your engine. Also get statements from the BBB or was it the BAR that the owner said it was already settled. That way, it just shows how shady there company is. Or at least have letters from the company, like chevy make sure it has their letter head on the statement.

Christos

Good points! Thanks for the support guys, everyone has been really helpful!

As for a written statement about it being, "bad" for an engine to be run without oil, the Chevy dealer in cali said they would fax me that on letterhead.

Im going to give them a call tomorrow, see if I can get them on it. I bugged them three times about it, and didn't want to annoy them and have them just say, "nah" or something.

My BAR rep said that she will send me the info and what I need to do to supina (sp?) the paperwork from her at the BAR, and same with the mechanic, so I can take them to court.

Almost getting there... finally. Now im scared as **** to go to court. Never been there before... Hope I hold myself ok.

dacuma

well the reason I said get a Notarized statement from the mech at chevy or statement with their letterhead, is sometimes judge's won't even look a statement unless it's notarized, cause they look at the notarized statement the same as a wittness in person. Just be really prepared, or at least as much as possible, and get qutoes from a dealership for the repair/replacement of the motor. Maybe at least 2, makesure everything is in written! Try not to sweat it, It's just a dang shame that you got to fight for what is entitled to you. Man its with everything, too. Good luck and hope everything works out for you.

BikertrashDude

Christos
damm i know what you are going through.
i had the same thing happen to me. forgot to tighten the oil filter and i drove the car about 500 miles and the engine died and seized up on me.
luckily they have said they would pay to put in a "rebuilt" engine into my car.
it sucks that they are not playing nice.
hope you stick it to them.
biker

poorboy8

I'll be prayin' for ya man!

radiateu2

When I was in the Army I was about to go overseas Germany I bought a 1988 cavalier 2,800 miles on the odometer I took the car into the dealer where I bought it a Chevrolet Dealer. The mechanic forgot to tighten the oil filter. the car pinged rattled and knocked all over the place. The dealer didnt want to replace the engine and said that I deliberately loosened the oil filter. Well, that didnt go over so well with the rest of my family who had recently bought cars at the same dealership. I had to fly back from Germany to face these @sses in court and I won I got a new engine, compensation for my rental and the Judge made the dealership pay for my round trip air fare from Germany. Persistance will pay off. Once this is settled, park the car in the street of the dealership with a big sign of what they did to your car. This works and there is nothing they can do about it cause your car is in a public domain. That will Pi$$ them off and helpthem lose business

Danno

I have several friends in the legal profession and I had the opportunity to run your problem by them. Property damage is different than personal injury. In a property issue you need to prove damages in the present tense. Meaning that if the engine developed a problem because of thier failure to properly service the car they would be liable. Unfortunately in your case if there is no sign of damage it will be hard to prove that you are entitled to compensation. The problem is that if he has insurance his company is probably calling the shots and telling him to ignore it until you file suit. In cases like this a lot depends on how sympathetic the judge is and his overall opinion of servicers. While the law in your state may be cut and dry judges have a lot of latitude. Your best offense according to what I was told is to have those letters from dealers stating what latent damage was done the engine and approximate costs involved. Someone mentioned pro-rating because of mileage etc. Probably won't happen because in a case such as this if you are denied use of the vehicle you are entitled to WHATEVER cost's are involved to return the vehicle to operating condition. If it means a crate engine, so be it. And there lies the problem, proving there is any damage at all. Since the vehicle is running the servicers position is strong. I have had to go to court several time over the years representing the companies I worked for and unfortunately from what I have seen the burden is really on the customer to prove damage or loss of use even in cases where I knew the customer was right and our company was less than forthright. What will happen if I can predict is it will be a pissing contest until the day of court, then you may hear from them with a settlement offer. As someone mentioned this happens every day at dealers and independent servicers. A tip from my friend to you is to keep it short and sweet. Don't deluge the judge with two ton's of paperwork. Pick the best pieces of information to support your case and let the judge decide. If this guy is as big an *** as you say he may well prove your case for you. Good Luck.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

My condolences man.

Any chance you could get this onto say People's Court so we can all watch you tear this guy to pieces (and sue for your pain and suffering or whatever)?

Had to say it...lol

Christos

That's cool. I figure the judge wouldn't get me the plane ticket money though. Who knows...

Danno, thank you for the advice! That was cool of you. I have talked to a few people with some court experience, and they said something similar.

Ive only had some intermittent sounds coming from the engine. Once it ticked like crazy for about a mile, then stopped (besides the first time it clicked like that when they added in the 4 quarts of oil) next it started "thunking" at idle. Really odd, but it was like someone was hitting my frame slightly with a sledgehammer. That went away too.

I called the local dealer and said, "could you drive it? see this problem?" they said, "nope, a sound wouldn't tell us if it was damage from being run without oil, only way we could do that would be to take the engine apart, inspect it, etc...) So I did try that at least.

That's what I'm worried about though, as I have mentioned before, that the judge might not understand cars at all, and say, "The engine is running? you lose... NEXT!" or something.

Peoples court. : ) heheh. I kind of thought about it, but for one, I would hate to be on TV. Would make me more nervous then I already am about being in court. Still, if i did lose, it would be funny watching me pull out reference after reference from everything I have collected about this so far. As for right now, I can see the judge saying, "If you know so damn much, why didn't you do your own oil?"

Ahh, if I could only turn back the clock. I would have just done it myself, and taken the 50 buck fine...

Thanks for the continued input!

83CAMAROMAN

hey man i know that everyone will disagree(except for a few) but the running the thing without oil.......just to kill it and prove it was their fault doesnt sound like that bad of an idea........lol.....just a thought.....depends on how honest you are.......

i do commend you on your patience though

rich88gta

I have had to fight soooo many speeding tickets its not funny. Take it from me. Dont sabotage your car. You have a good case! Just talk to the judge(prob a ref actually) like you would everybody else...with the exception of respect

Do not be emotional!!!!!! Letting your emotions run away from you, even if it looks like you are losing, will paint "guilt" all over your face.

Hope that will help you....and my *** man!!!!! RELAX :rockon:

Christos

Draining it did cross my mind. No way I would ever do it. I couldn't do it even. I really like my car, to an almost obsessive level, and even if I got something out of doing it, I couldn't do it.

I think my problem is going to BE that im honest actually. Most people in court with two totally different stories, so the judge will assume im making some up or whatever. I tell it exactly how it is. Man i suck.

rich88gta

That is actually the best way...you dont want the judge to catch you in a lie....how f***** up would that be???? Not to mention the fact that the truth...in this case, is the best thing you have going for you.

83CAMAROMAN

yeah after thinking about it ....i couldnt do that to my car either(drain it and run it) id feel way too bad for her......


sorry for the quick thinking response....

forsete

Ok, this is gonna be a loooooong post. But I hope it’ll help…
I say do as much as you can. Get papers, with statements and signatures, from the oil companies, dealerships...
heck, even other oil-changing places on the same street. (Might be difficult for you if you moved back to CO? I could go and talk to them for you ;)

Get as much as you can to bring with you to court, but try to show as little as possible to the judge and keep it short and sweet.
The only thing worse than showing the judge a lot of crap is not having all the papers with you.
After s/he is done reading one statement, politely tell the judge that you have more papers if s/he needs to see them.

Stick to your story. Don’t try to change things to make it sound better. If s/he finds out that you’re changing you’re story,
you’re pretty much screwed. If it’s possible, get the statements they gave the BAR lady;
- That they didn’t know anything about it – Lie #1,
- That it was already settled – Lie #2, etc…
That looks reaaally bad and could almost be enough for the judge to decide in your favor.

If court fails, then contact the TV stations. There is nothing they love more than to get a story like this.
FOX 11 wants to know (probably best place to go)
http://www.fox11la.com/n-news-wantstoknow.htm
ABC – 7 on your side (worth a try)
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/features...nyourside.html
CBS 2 – Special Assignment (also worth a try)
http://cbs2.com/specialassign/
NBC 4 – Contact us (last desperate resort)
http://www.nbc4.tv/nbc4/1326852/detail.html
KCAL 9 – Investigations (last desperate resort #2)
http://kcal9.com/investigative/
And if you want to do your homework before going to court…
http://biz.kmsp.findlaw.com/lawyers/
Consumer Protection Attorneys
http://directory.findlaw.com/lawyer/...ractice=FL0803

Hope at least some of this stuff will help. Just stay nice and calm. Be polite to the judge. Stick to your story.
And do almost whatever it takes to make the judge realize that they keep changing their story and are constantly lying to you.
This looks really bad, and if they’re lying about one thing, who’s to say that they’re not lying about everything else.
This is how the judge thinks, to some extent, when he’s trying to make a decision.

Good Luck buddy, and keep us posted.

Christos

Thanks! good post there.

They told the BAR they refuse to pay for anything. I received paperwork from the BAR now on how to subpoena the paperwork from them, and how to file and everything.

Hopefully things go well, although im still spooked that the engine is still running. I hope the judge doesn't just dismiss the case. Maybe i should have risked driving it to Colorado, like i originally intended to do. I just didn't want the engine to die on the trip. If it did, i would have had to let my car sit on the side of the road for a few months until i could afford to have it towed.