ChevyLuva3

Hey all, out of curiousity what are the pros and cons of getting the frame fixed/readjusted?

Obviously the PRO would be, you get your car back. A CON would be your car "won't be the same."

Some people state that if you have to fix your frame... "it's not worth it." Well what if you love your car, and want it, need it, and well love it. Which means you want it fixed. So it doesn't matter, aside from the money, just to have "YOUR" car back is worth it enough.

But... then also people always say "the car won't be the same." The car "won't drive the same." What exactly does that mean it won't be/drive the same? It won't feel the same? In what way? What problems are come across after fixing the frame? How won't it be the same????

iroc22

Well because 3rd gens are unibody cars, they are all one piece. If the frame bends, that means the whole car bends with it. I drove a GTA which was a write off because of a shifted axle, and someone repaired it and approved it for the street and it definitely wasn't the same as a normal GTA.

ChevyLuva3

Now what exactly do you mean by "wasn't the same"? How did it feel different?

..BTW jus curious is an 80's or so Monte Carlo a unibody?

Guest

The pre-88 G-bodies arent exactly unibodies. The body does bolt to the frame with rubber isolators, but the frame itself is a little bit on the weaker side. Its still a full frame car though unlike a thirdgen.

As for a wrecked thirdgen, it depends on where and how bad. I had an 84 that got nailed pretty bad in the front, and it 'was not the same' after I got it back. The radiator core support was tweaked pretty bad. They fixed it, twice. They ended up welding in a plate of steel, to which it broke the welds off of. Was not the same... hmmm I dunno how to describe it. The car just wont feel as solid, it'll twist more, squeak and rattle more, wont turn the same as it used to (generally, that means you turn the wheel and it seems like it has to think first), stuff like doors might not open or close right, sometimes you end up with air and water leaks you didnt have before, I could go on all night but I think you should be able to get the idea. It really will not be the same when you get it back. Some guys are good, but insurance companies are even better in making sure those good body repair people cut every corner in the book.

boggledinstl

a g body car (monte carlos so on) are full frame cars... i can tell you from a reinforcing point of veiw( i do hydraulics on cars and reinforce frames) i have seen the f body cars crack and actually tear across the back floor board after being twisted and fixed in the front....u could have severe stress damage throught out the whole car because it is uni body... this stress damage would only worsen over time making the structure of the car less and less as time goes on.. if u could put the car on one of them things at a body shop that straightens them using lazers and u know them fancy things(i have no idea what they call them) and got it fairly str8 u could do what the unibody hydrulic guys do and completely tear down the inside of the car and plate the bottom of it with a thicker sheet metal the entire floor pan.... but this would only work if the car was str8 to begin with...... u must love this car alot. cause to me it is in noway worth it. these cars are a dime a dozen in decent shape in illinois

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

ChevyLuva,

Maybe you should look for an even better car dude (lower mile G92 L98 IROC-Z) and just do something with that 1. (sell or for parts) Just be more carefull with the next 1. It might cost too much to fix this 1. Look at me. I'm STILL looking for the IROC-Z for me. At least you have had 1 that was what you wanted. But I won't settle for anything less than exactly what I'm looking for and I'm keeping the RS until then. Maybe you should do the same and find another, just better.

iroc22

The thing is, it's just hard to describe. Madmax seemed to explain related problems pretty well.

To me the pre-88 G-Bodies are more of a sub-frame setup.

RB83L69

The older G cars are a full frame design, from bumper to bumper, just like a truck or the B bodies up to 96. They do not have subframes. There is no room for interpretation. The entire body is a completely separate assembly that sits on the frame via rubber body mounts.

The issue with whether one of these cars will drive right after repair is usually with the quality of work done, like just about all body work. They can be made to drive right after a bad wreck. The real question is whether it is the right thing to do, economically. That is, is it cheaper to fix one, or buy another. These cars are so old now that they're cheap to buy, there's no sense in trying to fix a really torn up one; if you have one that you think is so important that you just have to fix it, then don't bother to ask about the price. You'll spend more than it's worth.

if I was going to fix one, I'd find somebody with a race car jig, and straighten it that way. You can get it straight more accurately that way than it was when it left the factory.

ChevyLuva3

(deep breath) haaaaaagh.. stress, stress. If only I wasn't so stupid! Fvck!

ChevyLuva3

Boggldinstl... Ya better believe I love my car!! Took me six months to find her, my first car, loved every minute with her. Just waiting for summer, to have the most fun with her ever.. then BAM! Why am I so stupid.

IROCZTWENTYGR8... Good idea and all to find a nicer IROC. But you know man, how long I spent, countless hours learning, searching, etc, just to find my car. Its like I spent 6 months looking for her (torture), I get her (happy), then have only 6 months with her then BAM! (I am an absolute idiot!!!)

ChevyLuva3

Great post. Things to think about.

In your post, however you did state that you 84 was fixed. Which means you were in the same position as me, and you still wanted it fixed anyway.

My car already rattled a sh!tload, everybody hated it. But to me? I couldn't hear a single rattle.

My steering has always felt 'tight', need a lot of muscle to turn, felt like I didn't even have power steering, which I did. However my car would turn on a dime, as long as I could muscle it enough. But not to say that was good, I've had much more fun in cars, where the steering doesn't respond so quick, mine was a little too quick for me.

My doors close/open alright, however they do hang after opening them, d@mn they weigh a lot.

Air and water leaks? Well I've had them for a while. Sometimes randomly get wet on passenger side floor. Sometimes wet behind driver seat on the floor. And of course always in the trunk. And with the T-Tops I could always hear the wind.

Background... I hit my car on a curb on an exit (turning). My whole car went up on the curb. Rear tire hit a little, not that much though. Nailed left front rim, ripped it up. Pushed in the lower portion of the wheel in towards the car, higher portion is pushed outwards. And the wheel is also pushed back towards the door/fender. Steering box cracked I believe. The strut tower cap, popped up. The strut tower/wheel well hump which can be seen from the engine bay is higher than the other. So far still have to get it checked out to see EXACLTY what is wrong. If it wasn't for the wheel being smooshed in, the car would look like nothing hit it. Its just in too good looking condition (to me!) to just consider it totalled. I was being an idiot and hit that curb. I owe it to my car to get her back on the road. I will be a much better and careful driver. One more chance with my baby!

A neighbor who races his Monte at a track, preferred me to this auto body, my car will soon be at. He's dealt with these cars forever. He's in the biz, they can do anything, the owner of the auto body races himself. And we also know him, aside from the suggestion from our 'racing' neighbor.

Then when my car gets fixed, I was thinking of buying a strut tower brace. Maybe this will keep the car a little more "together" then before.

Thanks for the responces, all your opinions/posts are appreciated and being brought into my thoughts. Thanks.

Guest

Well yea in some cases I was at the same point. I wanted the car fixed, and I didnt. I think somewhere along the repair cycle near the beginning (it took them 3 months) I didnt want it fixed. It actually cost them around $2k more than estimated to fix the car, which was around $1500 more than the value to total the car. The body shop even broke their frame machine when my car was on it, I dunno if it was just coincidence or not but it was my car that broke it.

Strut tower damage is bad news. I sure hope whoever works on it knows what they are doing and doesnt cut any corners. My 66 has been wrecked up front more times than I can count, and braces are just band-aids, they dont fix the problem. You'd want it fixed well enough it doesnt need stuff like that when its done.

Good luck with it.

ChevyLuva3

D@mn 3 months?! And how much exactly did it cost?

Out of curiousity, how come strut tower is such bad news? Tough to fix?

Hopefully they don't cut any corners. This isn't an insurance fix however. My car is not insured on collision. This is coming from my pocket. And through the connection we have with the owner. And how we have a connection with his friend who races with him. And the fact that the owner has dealt a lot with these cars (F-bodys). I think it would be fixed correctly.

But boy, does reading these posts give me such stress. Makes me feel so doubtful. While I'm trying to be optimistic. I gotta keep the faith, and hopefully everything will turn out well, moneywise, workwise, lifewise.

Guest

It was somewhere around $8k to fix the car.

The strut towers are bad because in most cases people try to straighten them out. If the metal is creased anywhere, its been weakened. Since the suspension is attached to it, those weak spots show in the way of the suspension moving the panel whereas before it wouldnt have. Thats the problem with strut towers, a car with upper and lower a-arms fares much better from a repair standpoint.

If you want it right, dont push the body shop too much. Get a realistic time frame for the repairs to be completed, check the car every once in a while to see what they are doing and that it all looks ok, and let them use the time they need to do it right.

TomP

You're all amateurs.

(Just JOKING!) But- I went under an illegally parked pickup truck at 35 mph back in '96. His bumper stopped at my right strut tower, and mashed everything back. My front subframe was destroyed on the passenger side. I talked to the body shop that I'd given business to before. He told me to get a parts car, they'd have to swap frames.

My dad found an '84 Firebird 2.8 with grass growing around it. He pulled over and asked the guy if it was for sale- it was, for $250. (Had to floor the thing to back it into my garage.) We had it towed to my house. As my bodyshop requested, I stripped both cars down to just a motor. No fenders, bumpers, headlights, intake, heater box, engine wiring harness, ANYTHING!

The shop welded the right front of the '84 onto my '86. I towed the '86 home, and put it back together. The car felt just like it did before I wrecked it, and still feels perfect- no wandering, no "crabbing", nothing. So keep that one in mind as an option. They charged me $900 to swap frames, and $100 to swap the windshields. Add in the $250 for the parts car, $50 for an alignment, and $200 in misc parts (radiator, new intake ducting, hoses, etc), and I was back on the road. Pics will be up some day- I took plenty.

ChevyLuva3

TomP, you have a way of making the grass much greener.

I hope my car turns out like yours. I don't think I'll get a parts car, the body shop is getting the parts seperatley. Pray for me guys/girls, I'm prayin, have faith in the old IROC-Z.

BTW, madmax, $8,000, whoa thats a lot. I'm not making any judgements, but if that is what my car will cost, I'd rather spend it on a newer camaro. Hopefully mine is in the $3,000 range.

Christos

Well, my car seems to pull a little bit still. First it was to the right, now after the new steering knuckle was installed, it pulls slightly to the left. The camber was way off on that tire after the frame pull, because the steering knuckle was bent. I had them just do bare minimum frame work to get it straightened out. I had to wait to afford a new steering knuckle. Wore down a new tire in 450 miles, just to give you an example of the extreme angle my wheel was at.

Yeah, ive had several alignments after the knuckle was installed, and it still pulls.

I might take it to someone else later on once i have the money, to see if it can be straightened any more.

I think if you have the right shop fix things, they will spend the time to do things right and get your frame fixed up good.

My experience with a frame fix is that my car does pull a little bit, but not enough to irritate me or anything, barely noticeable.