TomP

(I tried posting this in both the Body and Appearance boards, but I guess not too many people do their own bodywork... OR, nobody's checking those boards! So hopefully I can find some help here?)

So my friend was hit by a deer, the stupid animal ran right into the driver's side of his bonneville. It dented in both doors, front and rear, but luckily, didn't get the rear quarter. I told him I'd fix it for him (he has no collision on it, older car, and no $$ to bring it to a bodyshop). So at first I was thinking about just getting two junkyard doors and painting them, then, I wondered if I could just bang the metal out. Yeah it's more work but I don't mind, it's a good learning experience- especially since it's not my car!

So, how would you take out a big dent? Don't you use a hammer & dolly to work from the outside of the dent in? I don't want him to wind up with the oil can effect. I plan on using a thin layer of filler to finish the repair.

Should I use a slide hammer? Near the rear of each door, the deer dented those areas in, right against the verticle edge of each door. I don't see how a hammer/dolly could get in there, so I was thinking of a slide hammer. But, will I get the oilcan effect? I don't want to use the slide hammer right in the middle of a big dent, and wind up making the dent worse. If the proper way is to work from the outside of the dent inward with a hammer/dolly, I'll do it that way. But should the slide hammer be used on the edge of the door?

Also, should I be using a shrinking hammer? (Still not sure how those special heads actually shrink the metal...) Or should I use a shrinking dolly? Or should I use both? And the dolly goes in the area you "can't swing a hammer in", so the dolly would be in the door panel, right? What's the proper use for a heel dolley as opposed to the normal dolly? Or are they just used for "available space"... space is small, so use a heel dolly?

Thanks for the info... on my car, my dents were small enough so I could just use filler on 'em; they were mostly door dings. The few bigger dents I had, I used a rubber mallet, and finished it off with filler. There was no oilcan effect, but, the dents weren't on big door panels like my friend's.

Haha, one more thing- I see a ton of hammers out there. Some have a flat back and a pointy tip, some have a flat back and a shrinking back, some look like a double ended chipping hammer, what are these for? I figure I'd leave the double ended chipping hammer alone, and buy the other two, but I don't really know why you'd want a pointy tip on a body hammer- seems like it'd dent the metal!

And if there's any good links on the net, or books I could buy, let me know! Thanks!! I tried searching the net but didn't wind up with too much info.

J's86ROC

There's a couple of things I would try. If the dents are large you can use an ordinary bathroom plunger and it will take a good portion of the dent out. Just slowly push it on till it sucks down and give a good yank. Or if it's smaller you can buy dent puller kits that have different size plungers. Once you get some of the dent out you can heat up the metal (Carefully!) with a heat gun. Once it's heated up you put dry ice on it. You can get dry ice at alot of grocery stores. The heat expands the metal, then the dry ice supercools and quickly shrinks it usually pull quite a bit of it out. Some body shops do this for light hail damage.

Jza

How about: THE KEY TO METAL BUMPING by Frank T. Sargent. It's 126 pages and Eastwood sells it for $9.99.

Bralgar

If there are any creases in the dents, forget it. Either reskin the doors or get junkyard doors. Alot less headache. I have a Stud Welder I use for dent removal (well it is what it was made for) Nice thing about it is it leaves no holes, but you still need to tap down the pull mounds with them pointy pick hammers you were describing, with a little finess they work great. Eastwood carries studwelders if you would like to keep one handy. I basecoat/clearcoat for a living but Bodywork (metal) is not part of my daily routine at work, Now on the otherhand you want to talk about fiberglass repair/reconstruction..... How much time you got?

TomP

Jza, is that book good? I saw it (along with those $30 hammers); I was going to work on it this weekend, but maybe I should wait till I get that book, eh?

J's, I think I'd need a oxy-acet welder to heat these panels up, the area looks too large for a heat gun. I just have a mig...

Bralgar, so you think it's not even worth it? I looked at the car again yesterday, looks like the front driver's door would be easier to fix than the rear driver's door- that one has more damage near the striker bolt. (I think the deer "bounced" off the striker bolt area, and that's what saved the quarter panel!) So maybe I'll fix the front driver's door and just replace/reskin the rear driver's door.

For reskinning, when I weld, why would I make a flange? I'd have figured I'd just do a butt-weld, but everywhere I see (including eastwood), they sell panel flangers. ??

Bralgar

Usually the skin isn't welded on, it is just crimped on with the flange. Just take a grinder and grind the door edge all the way around( like this |--- grinder against the door jamb edge)and it should just fall off (after disassemling the door ofourse) Then just use the flange tool to crimp a new skin on. The old flange on the back of the door should just come off also (migh have a little sealanton it though , you might have to pry on it) just make sure before you flange that the back side has none of the old skin on it.

TomP

Oh, okay, I get it! ('Fact that's where my Firebird doors are rusting away, inside the door, right above the outer door skin flange.) What about those flange tools for large panels, like, say, a quarter panel? I'm going to replace my quarter panel on my Firebird, and I'm only going to take a patch panel (so I don't screw up the whole body alignment, hehe). I was thinking of just doing a butt weld.

Also (sorry for all the questions, I appreciate it!), the pointy pick hammer.. that's all the point is for? I bought a heavy shrinking hammer yesterday (girlfriend had a laugh at the name), and noticed the pick hammer is much lighter- is the fact that it's lighter, does that make the pick hammer's "large end" better for finishing?

And I'd love to know about fiberglass reconstruction! My friend's mother has an old Nova which was rearended twice... I can find a replacement quarter skin (it's a '73, hard to find year), but can't find other parts that have rusted away or have been dented (eg, the rear tailight panel). The other side of the car is good, would I lay fiberglass over the good panel, put bondo on the fiberglass to harden it up, and then somehow use the mold to recreate the panel on the "bad" side of the car?

TomP

ZIP! Back to the top!

I bought the rest of my bodywork tools yesterday... every damn Pep Boys is outta them. (I have gift certificates that were waiting for something "cool", so I had to go to Pep Boys.) Finally found one store with everything in stock. Prices were:

Pick hammer w/finishing end, $9.99
Pick hammer with (damn forgot the name) thin/narrow end, $9.99
Utility dolly, $7.99
Heel dolly, $7.99
Heavy Shrinking Hammer, $12.99

I might go back for their $6 slide hammer, and $3 flexible sander. I'm going to kick the hell out of a scrap piece of 1/16" gauge sheetmetal that's in my basement, and try to repair it with these... wish me luck!

grafx

first off don't even think about attemting to reskin a door especially when you've never done body work. Reskining a door takes alot of experience. Your best bet would be to first try and pop the metal out with your hand. Take the door panel off and push the dent out the best you can. If you have access to a slide hammer that would be a good start. Like you said you want to work from the outside in. Use a steel ruler while you go, pulling some, then checking your work. To use the ruler place the thin edge aginst the door and look down from the top to check how straight it is. If it's still dented in wards then you'll obviously see light between the ruler and door skin. If you've gone to far the ruler is going to rock on the bump you just made. Get the picture. Hammer and dolly will work also just go slow and take your time. You want to get the panel as close as original to where a maximum of 1/4" of bondo is required to finish it up.

You may also have to shrink the dents. The will tend to pop in and out when you try to final straighten it. If a strained area is filled with filler, road vibrations and movement of the strained area can cause the filler to crack or fall off. You can use a torch with a neutral flame to shrink. A small spot of the stretched area is heated to a cherry red. After it has been heated the first hammer blow should be directed on the center of the spot and then working around the perimeter, making sure to support the back side with a dolly. Dry Ice is not needed to cool the area, all you need is a wet rag or sponge. Becarful not to cool the area too soon as it can cause warpage.

Hope this helps you out some. Just keep in mind that this stuff takes a lot of practice to get good at it. Just take your time and constantly check your work as you go.

TomP

LOL! Yeah, this is completely different bodywork than I ever did before. I never messed with a hammer & dolly... I never had a dent that big to remove. I'd whack it out with a rubber mallet, then use a thin spread of filler to make the panel flat again. But I figure if I can find a "lower doorskin patch panel", that would probably work the best, so it wouldn't be a complete re-skin. And hey, like I said, it's not my car, so if it comes out like crap, I won't be upset. (My friend might be, but hey, too bad. Haha)

Thanks for the tips, I appreciate it! The one bummer is that my welder is a MIG, so I can't really go heating up the steel- I know our old Propane torch isn't gonna swing it.

What's the deal with "body files"? Is that an old technique? Seems to me if I started screwing with a body file, I might cut right thru the thin sheetmetal of this '89 car...

Bralgar

Hard to reskin a door?
A maximum of a 1/4" of bondo? Not on my car, if I can't get a small magnet to stick to a panel because of bondo, it is too thick. If you need to use that much bondo the panel is either trash or not worked enough.
Don't get me wrong I'm not flaming you, I'm no Joey Butafucco myself, but I work in the Automotive paint industry (fancy title of Paint technician) and I have friends that are "Bodymen" by trade and when I have questions, they tell me how it is done. And they have told me countless times before, it is much easier to reskin a door than it is to fix one with creases. I dabble in metal body work (I'm decent at it, but slow, I'm a perfectionist, painters always know what the finished product will look like before hand)