Tom84L69

My car originally came with the dual snorkel setup from 84 L69s. It did not come with the car when I bought it so I put on a 14 inch open element round housing with a K&N filter. Which one flows better?

gruveb

Tom,

Well I had the dual snorkel set up on mine, and switched to an open element 15" filter. At first I didn't change the brand of filter, just a cheap STP air filter.

I think that there was some improvement. It certainly sounded better.

Down side is that it sucks in all of the hot air from the engine compartment!

Now I've gone to a 15" K&N filter. So I personally feel that I've made 2 steps up. However, perception isn't always reality!

wasp

forced cold air intake definitely out performs an open element......

Mark A Shields

Well, I hear they're about even the dual snorkel doesn't get as much flow as the open, but the open is exposed to more heat.

V8Astro Captain

iTrader: (1)

I would say use an open element unless you have headers. My open element works just fine, but I'm switching to a dual snorkel when I put my headers on.

redbird_400

Thought some headers keep the hot air away from the engine? Or am I just talking about those expencive jet coated headers?

Tom84L69

thanks guys, it seems kind of inconclusive here. I do have headers though. It seems that the factory dual snorkel setup is pretty cheesy, maybe a better approach would be a homemade ramair setup. Anyway, any other thoughts or facts?

gruveb

Tom,

The factory set up is very cheesy! A home made set up would be much better! No doubt about it!

I keep thinking of going to a home made setup, but think I'll go with a cowl induction hood instead.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The correct question is "Which one works better?"

The thermovac system on the dual snorkel makes life much easier when the engine hasn't warmed up yet. In hot weather and stop-&-go traffic, the scoop/duct setup on the dual snorkel keeps the air cooler so you don't stumble around.

Having driven with both, I wouldn't even consider an open element again on my daily driver. At the track, where efforts are made to keep the engine cool, there isn't much difference. Cooler outside air is still the preferred source, though.

iroc22

Or you could just get an open element top and dual snorkel base.....

Hmmmmm

Sitting Bull

That might be interesting with a functional cowl induction hood.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Jza

I have seen very few homemade cold air setups that didn't look "cheesier" than ^^^^^ that does. Um, in case you weren't following my logic, I've seen a lot of cheesy homemade setups. Only a few looked better than an L69 setup. And non had THERMAC . I mean, when it's wide open, it's not much more of a restriction than the throttle blades themselves are.

I had an L69 setup.. I now have an open element. No real reason for it, and no real difference. Soooo, whatever you like better I guess.

dps8315

Mark mentioned above that the Open Element set up is pulling hot air in from the engine compartment... which I think is a definate problem on my daily driver-

Even if it can suck in as much air as the snorkel setup, it's bringing in hot air- aren't I going to lose performance? I mean that's the whole idea behind Cold Air Induction... cold air!

Moreover, if you're running hot air through your car, isn't your operating temperature going to be higher as well?

I've tried to read a lot of the posts on Open Element vs Dual Snorkle set up, and I haven't come up with a reason yet to fork out the time or cash looking for a Dual Snorkle... unless the answers to my questions mean lost performance.

I mean, there's gotta be a reason GM put that set up on there............ right??

jeffs82z28

Just to stay on topic:
IMHO :hail: L69 dual snorkle is the way to go. UNLESS you can pony up the cash for the cowl induction or the aftermarket twin scooped hood (I can't remember who makes the hood but one of the people on the boards has a pic of an awesome twin scoop hood that gives me a woody every time I see it )

Now for the slightly off topic Q.
Anybody got a spare L69 left scoop (P/N 14070917) that they would sell to a poor, destitute, tired old man? Ok, how about selling it to me cause he don't need it:sillylol: :sillylol: :sillylol:

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

I think there are legit arguments both for and against. Some say the factory setup looks "cheesy", others like myself like it. I do know that pulling cooler air into the intake has no disadvantage.

I keep mine because I think it's an unusual piece from the factory, and IMO, better than a stock air cleaner. But I've also seen some pretty sweet open element cleaners too. IMHO, I just can't see enough disadvantages in keeping the duel snorkle to get rid of it for an open element.

Maybe it's all just personal preference...

Ed Maher

Amazing that nobody in here mentioned it yet. The factory dual snorle air cleaner is a horrible design. The lid completely kills it's potential as a performance piece.

Take a look at a dual snorle AC off teh car sometime. Put the lid on it and look through the carb hole. Notice how the lid is like 1/2" away from the lip that seals to the carb.

Now, which way does air flow into a Q-jet? (i'll give you a hint \/)

So, the dual snorkel lid is so close to the lip that it won't let air effectively flow down into the carb, it has to go sideways over the top of it in the area it should be moving in a straight line down.

If you want to fix this problem, get a lid from a g-body or early TBI truck. It has an extra 3/4" of space. Or just run an open element.

Whatever you do, don't theoretically debate which is better (cold air vs. open element) b/c unless you've done back to back testing you're just rehashing your version of an opinion/theaory you read. The debate is older than man, just run whatever you like (or test both back to back and let us know). Open elements are 1000x more available than cheap dual snorkels, and paying a lot of money for a dual snorkel is probably a waste of money. Thus nobodies opinion is right.

gruveb

Ed,

I had forgotten to mention what you said. The stock dual snorkel is restrictive b/c it is too short! I think you're the person who advised me on that point originally.

I have been very happy with my open element filter. I am thinking about creating a ram air system however. On that will allow me to suck in cooler air while still remaining the benefits of an open element filter. I'll see how it goes.

redbird_400

When I first replaced my single snorkel with a open element It seemed my car ran a little better. Of course it was 45 degrees outside. No approaching summer we'll see what happens.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Nobody argued against an open element being better than a single snorkel.

Scrams84Z

I had an open element but went back to the dual snorkel due to detonation on my 10.5:1 compression 383. The cooler air seemed to help. Plans are to get a dual snorkel Ram Air Hood II from USBody (pictured below)



That with a open element, or even some sort of fabricated air box should be very cool

Only problem is coughing up the $599 for the hood.

Sitting Bull

The only problem with your theory is that both Hot Rod and Chevy High Performance mags have tested the dual snorkel 305s at the track and found them to provide a .25 second gain. Nothing like a little cold air to make you go faster.

That is hp that an open element can't provide

Furthermore, having used both I can say I detest the extra noise an open element creates. But then again, some people think noise sounds "fast."

And it is interesting to note that the last Car Craft showed that even high hp engines need a lot less filter than has previously been thought. So the area between the top of the carb and the dual snorkel aircleaner lid might be sufficient anyway.

Ed Maher

Was that 0.25 gain vs. an open element or a stock style piece? I can't believe a 0.25 gain from just colder air. I ran a dual snorkle on my 85 that ran high 13s for a bit when i scored it cheap. Never got a chance to get it to the track (that was the plan), but it definitely didn't feel any different. 0.25 is a huge gain, something had to skew the results IMO.

And the distance between the lid and the ac lid is a lot different than filter area. Like i said, air flows straight down into a q-jet. Why do you think devices like stubstacks added to carbs consitently show such gains. You don't want air moving sideways on top of a carb. Even if it works it has to make for inconsistent fueling..

I'm not saying if you have a dual snorkel to get rid of it, or that if you can get one cheap to pass. But fact is, they're not easy to find for MOST of the people in this country. I looked for one for years at shows and such and finally stumbled on one for under 120 at a swap meet. And for that money i don't think it's worthwhile when an open element is so dirt cheap. But if you do run a dual snorkle, i think it's in your best interest to run a taller lid as well, it sure can't hurt.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I about killed myself with the open element this winter after my mods. Those mass transit buses are going deceptively fast. The off-idle stumble was so bad when the engine was cold, the single snorkel was better than the open element when the outside temp was below 20F. Of course, after it warmed up after a couple of miles, the single snorkel choked it at even part throttle (get-ahead-of-the-traffic throttle, ya know).

The dual snorkel was a "breath of fresh air" for me. Mine isn't as pretty as Confuzed's is, and I still like the way it looks.

86BirdSE

I've done a mod suggested here in a few places. Here's what it is (so far)

I used the stock bottom, and replaced the lid with a 1978 Chevy Truck one. I bored the hole in the top a bit bigger for my "wing nut" to work. Otherwise, it's a direct fit

I went to NAPA and ordered a NAPA Gold AIr FIlter for a 1978 Chevy Truck. It is 2x as high as the stock one, and fits beautifully.

It's got much better throttle resonse, and it seems to be a tad louder then the old one. The lid BARELY clears the stock hood. I'll have to get some pics posted of it. It looks stock.

I just filled up, so I'm going to compare it to my other fuel mileage totals by the end of the week.

Eventually, I am going to fit another 3rd gen snorkel like the stock one on the pass. side and run alum dryer ducting to the front area both sides, and put a piece of window screen to cap the openings to keep bugs and stuff out. My car came without the airhose and box scoop on the driver's side.

Sitting Bull

You know, this thread is exactly a year old?

Talk about resurrecting the dead

86BirdSE

And everyone should use it!!

Anyway, I topped off, and I'm registering 19.74 MPG, a whole mile-per-gallon over the unmodded air cleaner. I will continue to average out my findings, but I think feasibly a mile per gallon increase is not out of the question. Granted the old setup was not a new filter, but it wasn't all that bad either.

Anyone care to post pics of their home-made setups?

JPrevost

One big advantage (could be seen as a disadvantage) of wet-flow systems is that they are influenced less by the air temp than an equal dry-flow. The gas going from pressure to no pressure will cool down the intake charge a LOT. Running an open element is the most cost effective solution to a stock engine or even a relatively wild motor. The underhood heat is always an issue to be delt with but in the case of TBI you'd be suprised to know that the stock calibration actually runs LESS fuel with cooler air and more with warm. When you burn your own eproms you'll soon find yourself changing this.
I've run them all and can say that the dual snorkel for a completely stock TBI motor is great but still a restriction. I had the air cleaner installed and one day forgot that I had removed it to get it painted....needless to say I found myself doing a little burn-out pulling out onto a highway where I've NEVER been able to do that before. So no air cleaner was definatly working better than having the dual snorkel. The open element is the same way as having no air cleaner except that the filter element itself helps straighten out the flow resulting in probably more torque. I wouldn't even think of using the dual snorkel on my current motor because it is such a restriction.
Bang for the buck open element will give you plenty of drivability so long as you've retuned your chip. If you haven't then it's no wonder some of you aren't getting the best results.
I'm in no way saying open elements are the final answer, I'm just saying that the stock L69 dual snorkel is by no means a very measurable improvement over it. Both are noticably better than the stock air cleaner but that's a no brainer. I've got a dual 3" cold air fabricated aluminum 6" dia hat for my cold air that I'm waiting to install. I'm just waiting for a tube bender to bend my 3" aluminum pipes and I'll finish welding. I'll then wrap everything to keep the heat and be ready to test and tune.

Zrated83

iTrader: (17)

sorry to bring this back again but hey 86BirdSE, did you ever get pics of the new lid and filter?

Mike

86BirdSE

I'll shoot some tonight. I'm in the middle of a timing chain project, and I removed my CCC Q-jet and AIR Pump, and my A/C Copressor, so I'll post em up here soon.

Zrated83

iTrader: (17)

sounds good.

Mike

honerablefroggy

Right now, I have K+N 14x3 Open element filter with a lo-profile air cleaner. What Im wondering is, would a functional cowl hood help by itself, or would I need to fabricate some sort of snorkel-intake from the filter to the cowl hole?

buzz12586

Would a cowl hood with an open air element work better than the dual snorkel? That way you would be flowing more air and it would be colder because of the cowl.

ChrisFormula355

Didn't read any of this arguement, but did you guys know that I still have my dual snorkel air cleaner for sale?? $75 plus shipping. Email somebody would ya

86BirdSE

Here are the pics (finally)

All Parts are for 1978 Chevy Pick-up 4x4 with a 350 v8

Air Cleaner Lid
Air Cleaner Element

I had to ream the hole a tad wider on the lid to accept the wing nut on my CCC Q-Jet. I also removed the deflector shield at the end of the snorkel.

86BirdSE

some comparison pics The left side element is the truck one, the right side is the original sized filter.

pat12spe

Ok I haven't seen this topic when I started my own, but basically I just wanted to know what I should use. I have the single snorkel TBI and I'm going to get the ram air II hood. Would it be better for me to get the double snorkel or open element? I also was thinking if there is a way to get the airbox and connect that to the snorkel? Which way would work best for me on a mildly modified 305. Tbichip, headers, hollowed cat and whatnot. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

86BirdSE

if you get a ram air hood, look at a throttle body spacer, open element or dual snorkel. Check out the TBI tech articles here. FIrst and foremost ALWAYS ALWAYS and I can't stress it enough, ALWAYS start with a good fresh tune-up. Make sure your

spark plugs
Plug Wires
brass terminal cap/rotor
base timing
synthetic or conventional oil change with PF1218 filter
air filter
PCV valve
Vacuum hoses

Are all new or in good shape. My motor was so out of tune when I bought it. One of the plug wires was burned. you get the point.

pat12spe

Ok, I just got a fresh tune up about a week ago with new plugs, wires, pcv valve, etc. All I need is to get the timing checked and then install the new hood. I'm going to go with edelbrock open element with a K&N air filter and possibly a throttle body spacer. I'll post some pics on here when I get done and let everyone know how much better it feels.

Gary Dan

Mine is just like that one on My 1988 Camaro Convertible !!!!

Edwardgp

Gary, Gary, Gary, You are digging up the dead here. Check the date on the post you are replying to.

gt4373

Maybe He Likes The Walking Dead.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The Locking Dead?

Edwardgp

He he he LOL.

Gary Dan

hahahahahaha,,,,,,,,,,,, can't believe I did that !!!!!!!! thanks guys, I really can read,,,,,,,,,,, hmmmmmmm well most of the time,,,,,,this is what happens when u get in a hurry.

Ron U.S.M.C.

I will most likely get bashed for saying this but it has been bugging me for a long time.

Cold air, cold air, cold air. That's all I hear. It’s been used to describe an intake system that is accepted buy people selling them, and people buying and installing them. Even the pros use the word to describe the unit/design. It means that apparently people actually believe cold air is being pulled into their intake. What is in your refrigerator is cold. Stick your arm in a frig and “that’s" cold air.
Cold air intakes do not pull in cold air unless it’s cold outside to begin with. (Ambient temp) and even then
it runs the gauntlet of pipe that is close to "engine" temp at the speed the TBI/Carb can pull it in.(it in no way is forced air). It may be cooler than an open air element that is trapped under a hood but using the word "cold" is misleading information. If the open air element has a working cool/warm air supply such as a cowl hood and possibly a filter top lid it can make a difference in what is being pulled in. I realize that the system has to be called something and "Cold Air Intake" has been chosen. It’s when someone starts bashing the Open Air Element comparing it to their "COLD" air system that makes it sound as if they actually believe its "COLD" air.


Many use the term colder than or cooler than. That is the correct way of describing any Cold Air system.

The top photo shows IMO the best Cold Air Intake( calling it by its chosen name) there is for a TBI/Carb and the bottom shows an Open Air Element arrangement that IMO pulls/supplies as much cool/warm air as a TBI/Carb can pull in with almost no restrictions.