305/TBI/TH700 in a AC Cobra!
02-18-2002, 08:17 AM
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305/TBI/TH700 in a AC Cobra!
This is my first post to this message board so I better introduce my self and my problem...
My name is Robert Palmqvist and I live in Stockholm, Sweden. That was the easy part... One of my hobbies is to build a replica of the famous AC Cobra and that car is now equipped with a Chevy 305 TBI with a TH700-R4. Quite a novel engine selection don’t you think
and explaining that is probably harder but I will do my best to give you a background primer *** long post alert activated! ***
Ford vs. Chevy – this one is quite easy, I have always loved Chevy in general and Camaro in particular.
305 vs. 350 – this is a bit harder but Swedish regulations for an armature built vehicle stipulate a maximum engine effect of 1kW per 10kg weight of the car (including full tank, tools and a 70kg driver). The common solution to this problem is to use an engine with as little hp as possible according to the manufacturer (the manufacturers specification is used as a reference and it thought as the engines potential) when you register and then swap it for something more powerful when you finally got all the papers.
TBI vs. Carb – my first intention was to go the classical Chevy 350 + Holley carb route but my father suggested fuel injection to get all the modern benefits. TBI is the only way to go if you want retro look with somewhat modern operation.
Auto vs. manual – my wife is financing 50% of my Cobra build and she wants to be able to drive it too. It will also be driven on a daily basis during summer in dense traffic. Automatic gearbox is about comfort in this case nothing else.
I hope that explains to some extent what options I had to face and consider when I first started to search for an engine. My strategy was to spend as little money as possible on a 305/TBI/TH700 out of a truck or something. That engine is rated as 170hp in Sweden making it easy to register the car with it and later on exchange it with a more powerful 350. They share the same engine and gearbox mounts so that should be fairly easy.
I soon stumbled upon a 305/TBI/TH700 combo that had served as the power source in a street racing truck before the owner lost interest in it in favour of a twin turbo LT1. The engine and gearbox had been raced some before the gearbox blow. It was then rebuilt with Corvette parts and the engine was rebuilt at the same time. They replaced all the sensors, kept stock rods, pistons rockers etc. but put a Comp Cams extreme energy cam in it, ported and polished the heads, upgraded the ignition and TBI some. EGR was removed and the cable harness is a mess. I got the newly rebuilt engine, gearbox, ECM, cable harness, joke, gearbox mount, a set of LT1 exhaust manifolds etc. for less than $1000.
I have now cleaned up the engine and I have also started to seek some information about 305 in general and TBI in particular. I have mainly worked on European engines without injection before so I am really in need of a lot of information and help.
My father owns a well-established Jaguar garage and that helps a lot, especially with sourcing parts for the chassis, but not with specific things like TBI operations and wiring diagrams. It was during my quest for information I stumbled upon this forum and I am now kindly begging you for help!
I will try to break down some of my questions in manageable blocks:
My first question is if I should keep the 305 and rebuild it for power or if I should exchange it according to my initial plan. Why I have changed my mind is the need for good mpg and driveability in dense traffic. The 305 I now have is putting out around 230hp today. I got quite modest requirements since the car doesn’t weight that much. I aim at 250 to 350hp but I guess that 300hp is more realistic than 350hp after what I have read at this board.
I don’t want to spend money rebuilding a 305 if the result isn’t good enough. I then better spend that money on rebuilding a 350. But given my specification of good mpg, easy drivability in dense traffic and around 300hp, would it then be a good option to stick with the 305 I already got or should I just forget it (I want to keep engine cost to a minimum to redirect money to other parts of the build to get it on the road as soon as possible. I could always build a better engine in the future)?
My second question is about making the 305 breaths. I will break this question down in combustion (heads, pistons and rods), exhaust and intake (TBI and intake manifold).
My stock heads are ported but will that be good enough for 300hp or do I need Vortec or World Product heads? What about pistons and rods? What would be a good combination?
My exhaust system has to be custom made but could I reuse the LT1 exhaust manifolds I already got or would it be better with traditional headers?
The intake manifold is not ported and the TBI is a stock unit. I was considering Holley’s 670cfm but that might be overkill for only 300hk? Can I keep the original TBI and port it or make it flow better in any other way? What about the intake manifold? Any suggestions?
My third and last question is the most urgent one for me right now. Where can I find a generic wiring diagram of a minimal 305 TBI installation (my engine is a 88)? I have to make a custom harness and installation anyway and I was thinking about using the crappy harness that I got as a foundation. The only problem is that I don’t realy know what is needed and what is not and how they are supposed to connect to each other.
Thanks for any replies and for taking the time to read all the way trough this text. I hope that at least the fact that there is a AC Cobra with a 305/TBI/TH-700 combo in existence was worth it
/ Robert
My name is Robert Palmqvist and I live in Stockholm, Sweden. That was the easy part... One of my hobbies is to build a replica of the famous AC Cobra and that car is now equipped with a Chevy 305 TBI with a TH700-R4. Quite a novel engine selection don’t you think
and explaining that is probably harder but I will do my best to give you a background primer *** long post alert activated! ***Ford vs. Chevy – this one is quite easy, I have always loved Chevy in general and Camaro in particular.
305 vs. 350 – this is a bit harder but Swedish regulations for an armature built vehicle stipulate a maximum engine effect of 1kW per 10kg weight of the car (including full tank, tools and a 70kg driver). The common solution to this problem is to use an engine with as little hp as possible according to the manufacturer (the manufacturers specification is used as a reference and it thought as the engines potential) when you register and then swap it for something more powerful when you finally got all the papers.
TBI vs. Carb – my first intention was to go the classical Chevy 350 + Holley carb route but my father suggested fuel injection to get all the modern benefits. TBI is the only way to go if you want retro look with somewhat modern operation.
Auto vs. manual – my wife is financing 50% of my Cobra build and she wants to be able to drive it too. It will also be driven on a daily basis during summer in dense traffic. Automatic gearbox is about comfort in this case nothing else.
I hope that explains to some extent what options I had to face and consider when I first started to search for an engine. My strategy was to spend as little money as possible on a 305/TBI/TH700 out of a truck or something. That engine is rated as 170hp in Sweden making it easy to register the car with it and later on exchange it with a more powerful 350. They share the same engine and gearbox mounts so that should be fairly easy.
I soon stumbled upon a 305/TBI/TH700 combo that had served as the power source in a street racing truck before the owner lost interest in it in favour of a twin turbo LT1. The engine and gearbox had been raced some before the gearbox blow. It was then rebuilt with Corvette parts and the engine was rebuilt at the same time. They replaced all the sensors, kept stock rods, pistons rockers etc. but put a Comp Cams extreme energy cam in it, ported and polished the heads, upgraded the ignition and TBI some. EGR was removed and the cable harness is a mess. I got the newly rebuilt engine, gearbox, ECM, cable harness, joke, gearbox mount, a set of LT1 exhaust manifolds etc. for less than $1000.
I have now cleaned up the engine and I have also started to seek some information about 305 in general and TBI in particular. I have mainly worked on European engines without injection before so I am really in need of a lot of information and help.
My father owns a well-established Jaguar garage and that helps a lot, especially with sourcing parts for the chassis, but not with specific things like TBI operations and wiring diagrams. It was during my quest for information I stumbled upon this forum and I am now kindly begging you for help!
I will try to break down some of my questions in manageable blocks:
My first question is if I should keep the 305 and rebuild it for power or if I should exchange it according to my initial plan. Why I have changed my mind is the need for good mpg and driveability in dense traffic. The 305 I now have is putting out around 230hp today. I got quite modest requirements since the car doesn’t weight that much. I aim at 250 to 350hp but I guess that 300hp is more realistic than 350hp after what I have read at this board.
I don’t want to spend money rebuilding a 305 if the result isn’t good enough. I then better spend that money on rebuilding a 350. But given my specification of good mpg, easy drivability in dense traffic and around 300hp, would it then be a good option to stick with the 305 I already got or should I just forget it (I want to keep engine cost to a minimum to redirect money to other parts of the build to get it on the road as soon as possible. I could always build a better engine in the future)?
My second question is about making the 305 breaths. I will break this question down in combustion (heads, pistons and rods), exhaust and intake (TBI and intake manifold).
My stock heads are ported but will that be good enough for 300hp or do I need Vortec or World Product heads? What about pistons and rods? What would be a good combination?
My exhaust system has to be custom made but could I reuse the LT1 exhaust manifolds I already got or would it be better with traditional headers?
The intake manifold is not ported and the TBI is a stock unit. I was considering Holley’s 670cfm but that might be overkill for only 300hk? Can I keep the original TBI and port it or make it flow better in any other way? What about the intake manifold? Any suggestions?
My third and last question is the most urgent one for me right now. Where can I find a generic wiring diagram of a minimal 305 TBI installation (my engine is a 88)? I have to make a custom harness and installation anyway and I was thinking about using the crappy harness that I got as a foundation. The only problem is that I don’t realy know what is needed and what is not and how they are supposed to connect to each other.
Thanks for any replies and for taking the time to read all the way trough this text. I hope that at least the fact that there is a AC Cobra with a 305/TBI/TH-700 combo in existence was worth it
/ Robert
Last edited by EmuMannen; 02-18-2002 at 08:28 AM.
02-20-2002, 09:48 PM
#2
The way I see it your choice is obvious, but expensive.
Get a ZZ502 with a 4L80E auto tranny and a stand-alone tranny controller. About 9-10 grand US but you'll have 500hp to burn with. RamJet 502 would add a little more cost but won't fit under the hood, I believe.
AC's were made for big torque/HP motors. Just do the big block. It'll increase the value of the vehicle, should you want to sell it as well.
Get a ZZ502 with a 4L80E auto tranny and a stand-alone tranny controller. About 9-10 grand US but you'll have 500hp to burn with. RamJet 502 would add a little more cost but won't fit under the hood, I believe.
AC's were made for big torque/HP motors. Just do the big block. It'll increase the value of the vehicle, should you want to sell it as well.
02-21-2002, 01:07 AM
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fast_broker, the car will cost lots of money to build (remember that I am located in Sweden so everything will cost 2 times the money you have to pay) and the main reason to stick a 305 in there in the first place is to make it street legal and to get some papers to prove it.
We already have a legendary street-dominating Cobra in Sweden with a Chevy bb under the hood. My car will not race the streets, it will be used mainly for cruising. A bb would affect the driving performance big time due to its weight, remember that Swedish roads doesn’t look like American high ways, we do have to turn often and sharp.
The only alternative to me is a Chevy sb. It gives me all kinds of flavours to choose from 305, 335, 350, 383 etc. I will build a totally new engine as soon as the rest of the car is finished. Paint job, bright works, and interior etc. will cost lots of money so I will probably stick with the 5 litres 305 that I already got for a while. Remember that we are used to 4 and 6 cylinder cars of around 1.5 to 3 litres displacement in cars heavier than a Cobra over here!
Tas, I have thought a lot about the auto tranny issue. I have had several European sports cars over the years (mainly Alfa Romeos from the 50’s and 60’s) so I have already played enough with the stick. I thought that it would be nice to cruise in style for a while.
The main reason for me building a Cobra in the first place is to build a car completely to my own specification. What I want is the vintage look of a British sports car without the wimpy engine and the nonexistent electrical system that usually comes with it. My Cobra will sport everything I like the way I like it, good looks, powerful sound, comfortable driving, low mpg, and modern electronics. If I want it, I will build it, the way I want it!
So what I really want to know is what I could do with the 305/TBI/TH700 combo I already got, because I wont be building a new engine until the car has passed registration (and that will probably take a while).
Please, please cheer me up and don’t put me down :hail:
We already have a legendary street-dominating Cobra in Sweden with a Chevy bb under the hood. My car will not race the streets, it will be used mainly for cruising. A bb would affect the driving performance big time due to its weight, remember that Swedish roads doesn’t look like American high ways, we do have to turn often and sharp.
The only alternative to me is a Chevy sb. It gives me all kinds of flavours to choose from 305, 335, 350, 383 etc. I will build a totally new engine as soon as the rest of the car is finished. Paint job, bright works, and interior etc. will cost lots of money so I will probably stick with the 5 litres 305 that I already got for a while. Remember that we are used to 4 and 6 cylinder cars of around 1.5 to 3 litres displacement in cars heavier than a Cobra over here!
Tas, I have thought a lot about the auto tranny issue. I have had several European sports cars over the years (mainly Alfa Romeos from the 50’s and 60’s) so I have already played enough with the stick. I thought that it would be nice to cruise in style for a while.
The main reason for me building a Cobra in the first place is to build a car completely to my own specification. What I want is the vintage look of a British sports car without the wimpy engine and the nonexistent electrical system that usually comes with it. My Cobra will sport everything I like the way I like it, good looks, powerful sound, comfortable driving, low mpg, and modern electronics. If I want it, I will build it, the way I want it!
So what I really want to know is what I could do with the 305/TBI/TH700 combo I already got, because I wont be building a new engine until the car has passed registration (and that will probably take a while).
Please, please cheer me up and don’t put me down :hail:
Last edited by EmuMannen; 02-21-2002 at 01:19 AM.
02-21-2002, 05:06 AM
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Car: 91 Red Sled
Axle/Gears: 10bolt Richmond 3.73 Torsen
First things first, post any pictures you've got of the project .
I must say, the 305 TBI auto isn't THAT bad. I'm a little lost about the engine itself. Does it need a rebuild, are you going to rebuild it, do you want to keep the heads, what kind of a budget are we talking about and what portion of that is dedicated to the engine?
If you were to keep the small block then get some headers, exhaust manifolds on a nice car is just silly. It's like slapping on a HUGE roots blower and keeping the stock y-pipe
.
If you were to go with heads, lean towards small combustion chambers and remember that in the future you might want to get a larger bottom end. If you don't expect to see more than 400hp then vortec heads might be the best choice but consider the machine work to lower compression for the 305 also make sure the cam doesn't have anymore than .480" lift or you'll also need to get the guides ground down.
When you do install everything don't forget about a tranny cooler if you keep the auto.
You can port the stock TB unit with a milling machine (for the bore ridges) and just use a grinding bit on the end of an air tool to smooth everything out. If you feel daring and/or are bored, shave down the throttle blades on the backside of the butterflies.
As far as swapping in the TBI and getting it to run smooth, eprom burning is the best way. For less than $300 you can do your own eproms and make the car run they way "[you] want it to"
A custom eprom is the only way to make a ~300hp 305 have nice street manners. It's really not that hard to learn how to burn eproms. There are so many people that have done it and the diy-eprom board is always here to answer any questions. It's actually a lot of fun and in the process of tuning you learn a lot about how the TBI system actually works and what the ecm does under certain conditions. How much does the Cobra weigh?
If you rebuild the 305, don't invest lots of money into 6" rods and custom pistons, it's not needed unless you're a die hard racer with race car daily drivers.
As for the wiring harness, there's an easy solution to that. I've got a wire pinout of my ecm that's only 1 page and it shows all the details. I'll post it on my website tomorrow and I'll let you know when it's up. The wiring is the easy part, the hard part is if you've got an '88 TBI ecm. If you want to get the engine to run great you need to program eproms. If you program eproms you want to junk the 88 ecm and upgrade to the 8746 or 7747 (same, just doesn't have the intake air sensor). Both units will plug right into the same harness as the 88 ecm (forget the number, it's just that worthless
).
Hope this answered some of your questions. If you're serious about wanting to make 300+hp and have mild street manners a 350+ cubic inch engine is the best way. Not only is the 350 pretty cheap, it'll make 300hp at the crank with decent heads and a mild cam. The more cubes you get, the more mild the cam can be and maintain the same power. Since gas milage is a concern I would lean towards pretty high gears like 3.23 or 3.08s. The only way to make a small block get good gas milage is to run a lite car, gear it for highway/low rpm cruising, and EFI. The catch is you MUST have the EFI tuned to your vehicle (not just engine hp).
Got any more questions post em up.
.I must say, the 305 TBI auto isn't THAT bad. I'm a little lost about the engine itself. Does it need a rebuild, are you going to rebuild it, do you want to keep the heads, what kind of a budget are we talking about and what portion of that is dedicated to the engine?
If you were to keep the small block then get some headers, exhaust manifolds on a nice car is just silly. It's like slapping on a HUGE roots blower and keeping the stock y-pipe
.If you were to go with heads, lean towards small combustion chambers and remember that in the future you might want to get a larger bottom end. If you don't expect to see more than 400hp then vortec heads might be the best choice but consider the machine work to lower compression for the 305 also make sure the cam doesn't have anymore than .480" lift or you'll also need to get the guides ground down.
When you do install everything don't forget about a tranny cooler if you keep the auto.
You can port the stock TB unit with a milling machine (for the bore ridges) and just use a grinding bit on the end of an air tool to smooth everything out. If you feel daring and/or are bored, shave down the throttle blades on the backside of the butterflies.
As far as swapping in the TBI and getting it to run smooth, eprom burning is the best way. For less than $300 you can do your own eproms and make the car run they way "[you] want it to"
A custom eprom is the only way to make a ~300hp 305 have nice street manners. It's really not that hard to learn how to burn eproms. There are so many people that have done it and the diy-eprom board is always here to answer any questions. It's actually a lot of fun and in the process of tuning you learn a lot about how the TBI system actually works and what the ecm does under certain conditions. How much does the Cobra weigh?
If you rebuild the 305, don't invest lots of money into 6" rods and custom pistons, it's not needed unless you're a die hard racer with race car daily drivers
.As for the wiring harness, there's an easy solution to that. I've got a wire pinout of my ecm that's only 1 page and it shows all the details. I'll post it on my website tomorrow and I'll let you know when it's up. The wiring is the easy part, the hard part is if you've got an '88 TBI ecm. If you want to get the engine to run great you need to program eproms. If you program eproms you want to junk the 88 ecm and upgrade to the 8746 or 7747 (same, just doesn't have the intake air sensor). Both units will plug right into the same harness as the 88 ecm (forget the number, it's just that worthless
).Hope this answered some of your questions. If you're serious about wanting to make 300+hp and have mild street manners a 350+ cubic inch engine is the best way. Not only is the 350 pretty cheap, it'll make 300hp at the crank with decent heads and a mild cam. The more cubes you get, the more mild the cam can be and maintain the same power. Since gas milage is a concern I would lean towards pretty high gears like 3.23 or 3.08s. The only way to make a small block get good gas milage is to run a lite car, gear it for highway/low rpm cruising, and EFI. The catch is you MUST have the EFI tuned to your vehicle (not just engine hp).
Got any more questions post em up.
02-21-2002, 06:33 AM
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Thanks a lot JPrevost, thanks for taking me seriously (that’s more than most other I have confronted with this issue).
The chassis and body will be ready for delivery the 14:th of June. I could post some pictures of the LO3 but I think you already seen enough of them. I promise to post some pictures of the build as soon as there is anything worth showing.
I am learning as I go and I already got a quite good picture of the LO3 already thanks to this board. The weight of the car will be around 1000 kg and I will use a Jaguar 3.07 or 3.23 diff with the TH700. I bought the engine because it was cheap and a free ticket trough registration. I don’t need massive hp since I am don going to use this car on the track or strip.
I have no problems with the idea of burning my own EPROM (I am a professional systems engineer and I like to play around with electronics) and I am quite handy with the Dremel and air tool so porting the TBI should be no problem.
The more I learn about my former truck LO3 the less eager I get keeping it. It probably low comp pistons, no rollers, terrible heads and you are now telling me that the ECM is useless!
So I will stick this engine in the car mainly to sort out the general small block and TBI installation (harness, ECM, linkage, hoses etc.). I will then build a new engine, keep the gearbox, swap in the new engine and sell the old truck engine.
The new engine will probably be a 350 with Vortec heads and intake. Best thing is probably a new long block and build from there. I could then get a used 350 TBI with a newer ECM, modify the PROM and TB and put it on top.
Another option could be to find a LO3 'E', exchange heads, cam, intake, ECM etc. But I don’t know if it is worth it since I have to change more or less everything anyway. Then it’s probably easier and more cost effective to go the 350 route.
My only concern with a 350 (except that it wouldn’t be street legal anymore) would be gas milage (gas is $3.5 per gallon in Sweden!), what is the difference in mpg between a 305 and a 350, both mildly tuned with Vortec heads and TBI?
I would really appreciate if you could put up a wiring diagram of any sort that could help me construct my custom TBI harness :hail:
Thanks again for your help! / Robert
The chassis and body will be ready for delivery the 14:th of June. I could post some pictures of the LO3 but I think you already seen enough of them. I promise to post some pictures of the build as soon as there is anything worth showing.
I am learning as I go and I already got a quite good picture of the LO3 already thanks to this board. The weight of the car will be around 1000 kg and I will use a Jaguar 3.07 or 3.23 diff with the TH700. I bought the engine because it was cheap and a free ticket trough registration. I don’t need massive hp since I am don going to use this car on the track or strip.
I have no problems with the idea of burning my own EPROM (I am a professional systems engineer and I like to play around with electronics) and I am quite handy with the Dremel and air tool so porting the TBI should be no problem.
The more I learn about my former truck LO3 the less eager I get keeping it. It probably low comp pistons, no rollers, terrible heads and you are now telling me that the ECM is useless!
So I will stick this engine in the car mainly to sort out the general small block and TBI installation (harness, ECM, linkage, hoses etc.). I will then build a new engine, keep the gearbox, swap in the new engine and sell the old truck engine.
The new engine will probably be a 350 with Vortec heads and intake. Best thing is probably a new long block and build from there. I could then get a used 350 TBI with a newer ECM, modify the PROM and TB and put it on top.
Another option could be to find a LO3 'E', exchange heads, cam, intake, ECM etc. But I don’t know if it is worth it since I have to change more or less everything anyway. Then it’s probably easier and more cost effective to go the 350 route.
My only concern with a 350 (except that it wouldn’t be street legal anymore) would be gas milage (gas is $3.5 per gallon in Sweden!), what is the difference in mpg between a 305 and a 350, both mildly tuned with Vortec heads and TBI?
I would really appreciate if you could put up a wiring diagram of any sort that could help me construct my custom TBI harness :hail:
Thanks again for your help! / Robert
02-21-2002, 10:19 AM
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Car: 91 Camaro RS Convertible
Engine: 385ci LT1 cnc ported heads big cam
Transmission: 4L60E automatic
Axle/Gears: 3.42 Zexel posi 7.5" rear
I think you would be happy running the Vortec HO 350 the JPREVOST runs.
http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...id=120&pid=115
I don't know if you have a GM dealer over there that can order that motor for you. GM PART NO. 12486041.
As far as fuel economy, a properly tuned 350 will get just as good of gas mileage as a 305.
I get 19 city/ 26hwy on my 99 340hp LS1 350 and 18/26 in my 170hp 305 under the same conditions with the same driver. So don't be afraid of the 350, it can be your friend.
I believe Jon even gets in the 20's with his Vortec HO 350 and is still tuning plus runs a pretty aggressive gear.
With the low weight and a 3.08 gear that Cobra should be fast and yet yield better gas mileage than our 1500kg cars.
My 4cyl volvo doesn't get any better gas mileage than my V8 cars too. Note: I have a 1966 Volvo P1800 with a B20 engine in it.
I have far more cars than I have sense. Just ask my wife.
http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...id=120&pid=115
I don't know if you have a GM dealer over there that can order that motor for you. GM PART NO. 12486041.
As far as fuel economy, a properly tuned 350 will get just as good of gas mileage as a 305.
I get 19 city/ 26hwy on my 99 340hp LS1 350 and 18/26 in my 170hp 305 under the same conditions with the same driver. So don't be afraid of the 350, it can be your friend.
I believe Jon even gets in the 20's with his Vortec HO 350 and is still tuning plus runs a pretty aggressive gear.
With the low weight and a 3.08 gear that Cobra should be fast and yet yield better gas mileage than our 1500kg cars.
My 4cyl volvo doesn't get any better gas mileage than my V8 cars too. Note: I have a 1966 Volvo P1800 with a B20 engine in it.
I have far more cars than I have sense.
Just ask my wife. Trending Topics
02-21-2002, 02:35 PM
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>I have a 1966 Volvo P1800 with a B20 engine in it.
The Saint’s car! Wow they are getting rare even in Sweden! Did you know who designed the body of that car? Volvo had an open design competition and the winner was a man called Pelle Pettersson. He is well known in Sweden and worldwide for his boats! Follow this link if you want more information about this boat builder who once designed you car:
http://www.nimbus.se/pellep.asp
The Saint’s car! Wow they are getting rare even in Sweden! Did you know who designed the body of that car? Volvo had an open design competition and the winner was a man called Pelle Pettersson. He is well known in Sweden and worldwide for his boats! Follow this link if you want more information about this boat builder who once designed you car:
http://www.nimbus.se/pellep.asp
02-21-2002, 07:07 PM
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Whatever you do build your motor for torque not hp. That Cobra will still scream and you'll like the mpg even more. If you ever drive on any straight roads you'll like the 3.08s a lot, and with the way first gear is on the 700r you will still have a hard time keeping tires on the rear. Can you say fourbarrel tbi ? Talk about a retro look and power to boot. The options are endless, need I say more.
Steve
Steve
02-22-2002, 02:07 AM
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>Can you say fourbarrel tbi ?
Fourbarrel tbi? Tell me more! That would add to the retro look Where can I find more information about fourbarrel tbi options?
Fourbarrel tbi? Tell me more! That would add to the retro look
Where can I find more information about fourbarrel tbi options?
02-22-2002, 02:17 AM
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The wiring is the easy part, the hard part is if you've got an '88 TBI ecm. If you want to get the engine to run great you need to program eproms. If you program eproms you want to junk the 88 ecm and upgrade to the 8746 or 7747 (same, just doesn't have the intake air sensor). Both units will plug right into the same harness as the 88 ecm (forget the number, it's just that worthless ).
02-22-2002, 12:35 PM
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THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!
I plan on building a kit Cobra when I get out of college, and I was playing with the idea of a dual 670-tbi setup on a Chevy 302.
I think you have made a great choice! (I too think a stick would make it more fun though...)
The 305 is a great engine, and simply because it is smaller it has the potential for better mpg than a 350.
300hp can be attained with the 305, but you are going to want to upgrade those heads, even ported they still restrict badly.
Remember, if you later decide you want to get rid of the 305, any parts on it can be reused on a 350. I say stick with the 305, you say you don't plan on racing and the 305 is a great street engine (in my opinion). The engine has a relatively long stroke, limiting the rpms, but allowing for great low-end torque, which is what counts on the road.
Holley makes a four-barrel TBI, check it out:
http://www.holley.com
I know allot of guys think it isn't worth it, but I say if you aren't going to get the 4 barrel get the 670.
Good luck,
JT
I plan on building a kit Cobra when I get out of college, and I was playing with the idea of a dual 670-tbi setup on a Chevy 302.
I think you have made a great choice! (I too think a stick would make it more fun though...)
The 305 is a great engine, and simply because it is smaller it has the potential for better mpg than a 350.
300hp can be attained with the 305, but you are going to want to upgrade those heads, even ported they still restrict badly.
Remember, if you later decide you want to get rid of the 305, any parts on it can be reused on a 350. I say stick with the 305, you say you don't plan on racing and the 305 is a great street engine (in my opinion). The engine has a relatively long stroke, limiting the rpms, but allowing for great low-end torque, which is what counts on the road.
Holley makes a four-barrel TBI, check it out:
http://www.holley.com
I know allot of guys think it isn't worth it, but I say if you aren't going to get the 4 barrel get the 670.
Good luck,
JT
02-22-2002, 06:47 PM
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Car: 92RS
Engine: 357
Transmission: 700R4
Have you read the articles in the technical section of this board pertaining to TBI mods?Look under Ultimate TBI. in the tech section. I would get it running and drive it. You might be surprised how well the lo3 runs in a light kit car.Especially since it is allready slightly modified. Buy the way, what do you estimate the total vehical to wiegh when your finished?(in pounds for us metrically challenged people).
Makes perfect sense to me why you chose the combination that you did, especially considering your intended usage and gas milage concerns. Dont give up on the 305 untill you have drove it.
Makes perfect sense to me why you chose the combination that you did, especially considering your intended usage and gas milage concerns. Dont give up on the 305 untill you have drove it.
02-23-2002, 02:59 AM
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JokerRS, the estimated weight of the car will be 1100 kg
~ 2425 pounds (avoirdupois) ~ 2947 pounds (troy).
Do you got two different pounds?!?
The weight is estimated by comparing other cars built from the same kit with Chevy 350 engines.
The kit I have ordered is the AK 427 Cobra: http://www.cobrakits.co.uk
~ 2425 pounds (avoirdupois) ~ 2947 pounds (troy).
Do you got two different pounds?!?
The weight is estimated by comparing other cars built from the same kit with Chevy 350 engines.
The kit I have ordered is the AK 427 Cobra: http://www.cobrakits.co.uk
02-23-2002, 04:07 AM
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Car: 91 Red Sled
Axle/Gears: 10bolt Richmond 3.73 Torsen
The 88 ecm from an f-body is worthless, if it's an 88 TBI from a truck you've most likely got the 7747 ecm. The 7747 and the 8746 are the better ecms to use. The Intake air temp is just another sensor that the ecm uses to control the fuel and timing. The 7747 doesn't have the extra sensor, it's just looks mostly at the coolant temp and MAP sensor when doing open loop fuel calculations.
No matter what direction you plan on taking you'll still have a chevy under the hood and EVERYBODY knows that a chevy v8 is the cheapest bang for the buck so if you don't like the combo, it won't cost an arm and a leg to change. The small block was a *** sent answer to the budget minded hot rodders like ourselves.
No matter what direction you plan on taking you'll still have a chevy under the hood and EVERYBODY knows that a chevy v8 is the cheapest bang for the buck so if you don't like the combo, it won't cost an arm and a leg to change
. The small block was a *** sent answer to the budget minded hot rodders like ourselves.
02-23-2002, 07:11 AM
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Car: 91 RS
Engine: 305
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Emu.......Welcome to a new member. Nice project you have there!!
The thing will sound sweet with the side pipes and headers as shown on the pic on the site that you listed. And...that will take care of one of the first things that you need to change about the LO3.. the exhaust.
If you don't plan to do any all-out racing the small- block will serve you fine with ton's of upgrades that you can do anytime.
The LO3 can be modded like any other smallblock, it's just not the performance standard like the 350 is. But...in that light car it should pull great especially with some mod's. You should take the time to read previous post on this board and you should be able to pick up plenty of ideas.
Intake, heads, cam and exhaust being the one's to do for the biggest gains and then tuning it correctly!
Good luck
The thing will sound sweet with the side pipes and headers as shown on the pic on the site that you listed. And...that will take care of one of the first things that you need to change about the LO3.. the exhaust.
If you don't plan to do any all-out racing the small- block will serve you fine with ton's of upgrades that you can do anytime.
The LO3 can be modded like any other smallblock, it's just not the performance standard like the 350 is. But...in that light car it should pull great especially with some mod's. You should take the time to read previous post on this board and you should be able to pick up plenty of ideas.
Intake, heads, cam and exhaust being the one's to do for the biggest gains and then tuning it correctly!
Good luck
02-23-2002, 07:44 AM
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Car: 92RS
Engine: 357
Transmission: 700R4
We Just use one pound, (avoirdupois), so at 2425 lbs. thats a very light car. Thats 1000 lbs. lighter then a camaro. As much as I like a 350, I dont think you would need one unless your racing alot. And I see by your posts that racing is not a priority.
Keep us up to date as you go!
Keep us up to date as you go!
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