Nutti

Hi!

My first post, my first camaro and I'm from Finland greetings!

So last wednesday I picked up a camaro rs -89 with 305 tbi. It ran smooth and nicely for about 140km (on a two day period) but suddenly while driving in our city turning a corner, it just started running really bad and chocked. I got it running again and figured it's time to head back home. About 25km later the same thing happened at a turn, running bad and chocking. When I got home it had idle speed between 500-1500 rpm just bouncing up and down so I left it for the night to rest.

The next day I checked error codes as the service engine soon light was on but I had figured it was only some periodic maintrence going on. It gave me code 13, 32 and 54. Who knows when these codes have started, but I started a error searching routine. First thing I noticed was all electrical connectors was filled with grease so I cleaned thoose out. Then I thought about the codes, and started checking the egr stuff. Well there wasn't much to that since former owner had installed headers and a edelbrock muffler so I figured I might as well delete all that and remove it. Is that ok to do?

Then the fuelpump. It is running when turning the key, but I don't know about the relay. Can it be damaged even if it activates the pump when turning the key? Also where can I measure the voltage given to the fuelpump with a multimeter?

Then I removed the iac sensor and cleaned that out and while I was at it I figured I might aswell pull the whole tbi apart and clean it. I also removed the oxygen sensor and cleaned that.

Now I'm waiting for a repair kit for the tbi and hoping that will solve my bad idle problem...anything else I could check?

btw, I'm going to port the edges on the tbi and install an open airfilter so that will probably get more air to the engine, how can I set the fuel mixture? The former owner said it has been installed another cam, but he didn't know witch and light ported the heads. So the overall mod is, another cam, light ported heads, light ported tbi, open airfilter, headers, 3" pipe to a edelbrock muffler.

What do I need to do to get the mixture right with these mods? And any tips on the bad idle would be great. Is it safe for me to remove everything with the egr since the exhaust manifold valve is already gone?

Thanks for sharing any light on these questions.
Regards,
Fredrik

Nutti

No ideas?

Maybe I just started off wrong, many forums have their policies and manner so if I introduced myself badly with this post I'm sorry.

Yesterday while I was porting the throttle body I saw a little dirt in the lower corner between tbi and intake manifold under the iac, so I'm hoping that it's just sucking air there and that that would be my bad idle speed problem. Second choise would be the iac sensor/valve itself. Anybody here know how to check if the sensor/valve is ok?

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

We're not that formal here, Fredrik. Welcome aboard!

I didn't have any immediate ideas. Other than I know when my tank is low, it will die out in a tight right hand turn, like a highway off ramp. Pickup must be on the passenger side, because when the fuel is pushed to the driver side, she'll stumble. But when mine did that, it was fine once the turn was over, and when the tank was filled. So my experience did not exactly match your description.

Hopefully someone will have an idea or two for you.

Nutti

Thanks!

Some forums are just like: dude, use the search function (and read threads for a few days) it's all there infront of you.

yeah my tank was full and 140km later it happened so I don't think it's that. It also idles bad when standing still so.

I did swap the belt though, but surely that wouldn't mess idle speed up would it? Hoping to get the tbi repair kit tomorrow and hopefully it solves the problem, if not then I'll try getting a new iac valve.

I started draining the oils last night from the engine and tranny but I must have gotton a faulty filter to the tranny, cuz it wouldn't go in. The seal stayed flat with the hole no matter how I tried, in frustration after an hour of whiggle on and on I took a jack and started pumping. The filter wall got pushed in and the seal wouldn't go in the hole so tomorrow I'll take it back to the store to get a new one. I NEVER had so many problems just changing oil in a car before

RFmaster

Shutting down during turns indicates a possible fuel starvation. A bouncy idle also points to a possible low fuel pressure. It is a very common problem for fuel hose between fuel pump and feed through fitting to develop a small hole. This section of fuel hose must be SAE 30R10 - fuel submersible type to provide long service life. All too often mechanics simply replace this section of a hose with a common SAE 30R7 or ???, which usually last couple of years until it burst again! Fuel pump is inside gas tank and dropping a gas tank is doable, but not a lot of fun! If you end up dropping gas tank it is highly recommended to replace fuel pump - when there is a hose leak pump spins faster wearing itself out. Dropping a gas tank a second tank is just as painful as the first.

1) Check fuel pressure - it should 9 to 13 PSI (0.62 to 0.89 BAR). There is no fuel pressure test port, but you can insert a test coupler supplied with fuel pressure gauge in the high pressure side. The most convenient point for checking fuel pressure in 3rd gen TBI is on driver side inner fender side where fuel lines tie into engine metal fuel rails via flex hoses.
2) Actron Fuel Pressure Testers CP7817 has the correct TBI adapter fitting. In NA this tester is widely available. I am not sure about Finland. GM used a Siganaw fitting which unique - just get a correct test adapter!

3) During POST sequence fuel pump should turn on for 2 seconds and shut off. Fuel pump should only run as long as engine is running. However, Fuel Pump can be manually operated to prime fuel system. Apply +12 volts via fused connection (you'll have to build a jumper wire with an inline 10AMP fuse) to port G of the ALDL socket while ignition is off.



good luck

//RF

Nutti

Thanks for the reply! I have read about that and hoping it's not a fuelpump case...we've only got a month or two left before snow arrives here so I would like to drive it a little before doing big projects like that. But we'll see tomorrow. My dealer confirmed that the tbi repair kit will arrive tomorrow so after putting it all togeather I'll visit my friends shop and borrow a fuel pressure gauge.

If the pressure is low, then am I doomed to drop the tank or could it be any other factors? I havent changed the fuelfilter so I'll be getting that from my dealer tomorrow also to eliminate that factor.

RFmaster

From what I recall Finland has quality gas and as long as the car has NOT sat for a very long time the gas tank should be corrosion free (inside). It is a good idea to replace FF just to eliminate it from possible contributing factors. Replace FF, run fuel pressure check see what FP you system is operating at.

//RF

Nutti

We run e98 fuel in our cars and luckily it has not seen the cold winterroads with salt that the government spread year after year on the icy roads. So it's not rusty at all, just a few spots underneith the car has some surfacerust on it.

I wish I had ordered a new manual fuel regulator while I had the tbi already open but, there's always that next time eh?

Nutti

So the result after this weekend is:
Checked fuelpressure, 6psi plugged the return with a weldingplier and ran the test again and it would not rise over 6psi so that pointed everything to the fuelpump after I checked all the lines for leaks.

I don't know how you guys do it but it took me and my buddy 6,5 hours to get the fuel tank on my garage floor! Jeeeesus what a job! All bolts came off easily and we both had a good feeling about it all until it came to the past to get the fuelpipe to come out from it's refillinghole. It was just to tight! I don't know how many hours we spent just to whiggle it out of there...

after we got it out the problem revield itself. It was not a proper hose between the hardline and the pump so it had swollen and got one huge jack in it. I went ahead and tested the pump really quick just with a presdure gauge and car battery. I cut the power when I got 17psi afraid for the hose to blow, so I think it's ok then right? Now I'm getting the sae 30r10 hose from my dealer or ebay so that I know that it's the proper one.

RFmaster

Nutti

It is highly recommended to upgrade FP from stock TBI to TPI version. Look for http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACDelco-EP-381/380865599497?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D24192%26meid%3D7c62c6ba2a7a4d9b91f678010e3b21a3%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D10284%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D200463329776&rt=nc This pump is very common in US for less $100. In EU look for SAE 30R10 equivalent from Gates, p/n 4219-06184 (27097) L=30.5cm, Dia= 10mm (3/8"). Double check hose diameter on your pump and feed through fitting!!!! This hose should be available from any automotive parts retailers in Finland (they may have to special order it) :

http://www.motonet.fi/
http://biltema.fi/

If you are willing to wait RockAuto.com carries this hose and ships into EU. You may want to price compare before buying from local dealer or retailer...

Most of us done the tank drop number of times and we known your pain very well!!

//RF

Nutti

Hey thanks! I will be getting a new pump since it's all open I just figured that the hoseleak was the problem to my low fuelpressure.

How do you know about finnish autoparts webpages? That's sick! I'll get the pump you recommend, I'm on my way to my partsdealer tomorrow so he'll probably get it for me.

Nutti

I'll be getting the original fuelpump, the ep381 was simply too expencive here. 170€ (223$) and 70€ (92$) for the original pump. I could get it directly from the states for half the price but the shippingtime is just to long for me. I can get the original pump in just 2 days and hopefully have the car running this weekend so...

once again I live on the wrong side of the pot...

RFmaster

170 Eu for pump - that's we call a 'rip-off' on this side of the 'pond'!

Good luck with installation - you may get a complete installation kit with your new pump that should make retrofit job easier. With fall around the corner you do not have too much time to waist.... Been to Oulu on several occasions during winter months - a bit cold for my liking when compared to SoCal!!

//RF

Nutti

Indeed a robbery it is...

well, while waiting for the pump I'll get the chance to open the rear end and change the pinion bearing so no time goes to waist

Wow, what have you done to oulu several times if you don't mind me asking? I've been dreaming of coming over to the states some time, but suddenly there where 3 kids, a dog and a house

RFmaster

The company I've worked for in the past supplied to Nokia during 90's and 2000's. It was a good, but very difficult and demanding customer!! Takes two or three flights and about 1-1/2 days of travel time. No more - most of the telecom business went to China and things have changed very quickly from tough to really bad!

IMHO, pinion bearing requires some serious shop tools, also this will require axle shaft removal - i.e wheel bearings and seals will have to be replaced. Not a simple job!!! Suggest that you check into FSM for instructions.

//RF

Nutti

Aah ok I see.

Yes, I know that it's a bit tricky. I had a 10bult before on my blazer '85 also where I've done some axlejob while it had the 10b. Got tired of that axle and got myself a gm14bff instead witch I rebuilt with new gears and bearings. The tricky part was with the crushsleeve on the pinion but I got a friend who had the tools to do it and a homemade jack construction to press the bearings inplace.

Nutti

Is there anything I need to upgrade when running the highpressure pump? I'm not going to blow any fuelhoses, o-rings, gaskets or something else? And it will work with the stock regulator?

I can't afford new gears for the rear axle now so I'll just go with fresh oil and get a full repair kit and new gears sometimes this winter. Everything gets so expencive with buying parts here, I ordered myself almost broke the other day

Nutti

So I got the car back togeather for about a hour befor tearing it apart again...

It ran great after the fuelpump swap...I took it for a testdrive a couple of minutes and went back home to change clothes. When I got back in the car it wouldn't crank. When switching the key to ignite, it throws my temp meter at max and breaksymbol lights and a click under the dash driver side. That's it.

After reading a few days I figured it would be the vats not liking the new fuel pump as someone I read about had this problem. So I tried a solution of connecting a3 to b1 on the ecm that is supposed to bypass vats claws around the starter. No success. I don't know if I did it correctly, I cut the wires and joined the ones coming from the ecm. Maybe I was supposed to join the two coming to the ecm?

I also thought it would be the neutral safety switch playing with me, so I joined the purple and dark green wire togeather that is supposed to bypass that switch. Didn't work. But again, maybe I did it wrong? I pulled the wires from the connector and taped them togeather.

could someone please help me find the problem or atleast have a clue what the problem could be

Thanks!