Aarons92Maro

Hey everyone. I have a 1992 Camaro RS, it has a mostly stock 305. I bought the car carb'd. The previous owners put a carb on it right were the tbi was. It ran horrible, as you'd expect. We had the car switched back to a tbi and I immediatley noticed that it was incredibly slow. Maybe that's why the previous owners slapped a carb on. We think it is all timing related, and even after a tune, it gets slightly better, but then gets worse again. In order to start the car now, I have to unplug the timing cable, turn it on, and then plug the cable back together. Even when the timing seems to be working okay, it is still horribly slow.

The car also, during idle, will have a slight miss in the drive position.

Possibly a cam problem?

It also has a lifter that is ticking...

What is making the car so slow? It drives nice and strong under normal acceleration, but when you get on the throttle it is so dissapointing!

when it was carb'd it was pretty damn quick, and the timing was always spot on.

The last owners did some stupid things with the car... maybe they were messing around with the computer.

What's wrong?
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I had a couple people tell me to put a different distribtor on it, and some told me that they thought it was a vacuum issue...

The only mods are a Flowmaster 80 series catback.

rough

our heads is the problem, there not even good enough to be tire stops. All meaty till the pedal is smashed all the way, then its a sissy.

Aarons92Maro

There's a lot more to it than the heads... stock 0-60 for this car is 7.5 seconds!!! Please help me third genners!

89_RS

Thats about all you'll get out of a stock Third gen. They were that slow. Headers, good cat & cat-back exhaust, ultimate TBI mods, open air element, fuel system upgrade, EBL, and really good tuning will get the car to about 210rwhp with otherwise stock heads. Beyond that you'll have to do a cam & head swap and overhaul the entire valvetrain to seem some decent rwhp numbers. That coupled with a transmission upgrade, better rear gears and an LSD will result in better track numbers.

The 3rd gen sucked in stock form, but were really responsive to mods. They are fun cars when setup properly. Takes alot of time and money to do though.

Aarons92Maro

I knew that... but there is something wrong with mine. You guys are basically telling me that a third gen should be slower than a semi. Mine is that slow, no joking, I'm not exaggerating! I need help, and modding a motor and drive train that has problems isn't going to help.

Do ya think something might be wrong when a V8 Camaro runs a 20+ 1/4???

I hope I am making myself clear on how bad the timing is. How do I fix it?

Darkshot

iTrader: (4)

Get a timing light and check your timing with the connector unplugged.

rough

are you running on all 8 cyl's

Aarons92Maro

Yeah... And I still have a hard time at full throttle keeping up with normal cars (ex. a durango) at half throttle.
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Okay... I'd do anything at this point!!! Any idea's for fixing it?

rough

is your distributor 180degrees off ?

Aarons92Maro

I have no idea... I'd have to drive to where it's being stored... Haha I live in Wisconsin and there's a foot of snow on the ground.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

hey aaron,

the idea about the dissy being 180° off sounds reasonable somehow. you would need to take it out and get it lined up again the right way. oh btw, do you have any codes? my experience is that our cars can run like real crap if there's an ignition problem without setting any codes. also be sure to check your initial timing. a basic manual like haynes or chilton, or even better if you intend to seriously work on this car, a GM shop manual, will also tell you how to check your ignition components.

the first problem i would try to solve is the starting issue you are having, because imo that sure as hell is where all your troubles come from. was the timing vacuum-referenced with the carb setup? maybe you can tell us which parts you changed when converting back to tbi, maybe you missed something.

you stated that it would be okay in part-throttle, what happens if you try to accelerate from 0-60 without mashing the throttle just holding it at let's say 70% or so? does it go faster like this?

please watch out while driving it into storage, we all want to see that f-body back on the road again in spring
edit: lol ignore the last sentence, i thought you were saying you need to drive the maro into storage nevermind..

hth

89_RS

First off, CALM DOWN!!! The car isn't going anywhere and it seems that your driving requirements are being taken care of right now.

Secondly, calmly tell us to the best of your knowledge the things that you have done to the car since you got it. Chances are that you missed something and that it is ruining the cars performance.

Once you have done this, we'll be able to help you better.

Slick89RS

iTrader: (1)

I'm going with check the timing if you need to disconnect the plug to get it started.

Were are you at in WI you may notice I am also from the same area.

Yup... just looked out the window and there's a foot of snow on the ground.

P.S. I have a nice snap-on digital timing light too oooh ahhhh

rough

It sounds like when i put my dist in 180degree backwards, It ran, felt a stumble on Full throttle, drivable, absolutely no power. Timing issue

Aarons92Maro

I am in Evansville. 15 minutes from Janesville, about 25 from Madison. Not sure where you are exactly. The car is in Orfordville, about ten miles away. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!

Aarons92Maro

Okay...(deep breath lol)... I haven't done too much myself. This is my first car and I really didn't want to mess it up. The things we have done so far are: new plug wires, swapped the carb for a tbi (not sure where the tbi came from, but I think it was another Camaro), new distributor, cap and rotor, new fuel line, power steering hose, air intake manifold, fuel pump, and cat back exhaust... the majority of this work was done in a nearby town at a very reputable service shop. We started having problems with the timing immediatly after the new throttle body was installed along with the intake manifold. When we picked the car up, the mechanic told me the only way to start the car was to unplug the timing cable, and then plug it back in after the car had been started. They couldn't figure out why it was doing that. The original wiring for the old tbi setup is being used... maybe that's the problem. Hope that helps.

Sorry about the attitude, this car is draining me to death, even when I don't drive it.

Aarons92Maro

No... It really doesn't want to do anything. Anything over 60% is pretty bad.

89_RS

A couple things I can think of right off the top of my head:

The TBI you're using probably isn't from a 305. If it came out of a 350 or 454 the stock ECM will have alot of trouble controlling the TBI due to the differences in injector flow rate, throttle position, ect. The way you describe how the engine is acting over 60% TP makes it sound like its being choked. This would be a sign to me that its got too much air & fuel. If the opposite is true, i.e. not enough fuel & air, your fuel pump may not be suppling enough fuel for the engine to run. Also if your fuel pressure regulator is running the fuel pressure too low, the engine won't have enough fuel to run.

The distributor could be way off or installed the wrong way. I'm not knocking on the shop that did it, but as other have said, if the ditributor is installed wrong the timing will be way off. Make sure that the ditributor is installed in the correct position and that the engine has the proper timing.

Double check all the connections on the wiring harness. Often times a lose connection can result in something not working right. Also, find out if the ECU is the one the car came with. If you can get the numbers off it, we can find out if this is the stock ECU for your car. Also, check to see if the engine is throwing any codes to the ECU for errors. Your Service Engine Soon (SES) light should come on when you get an error code.

Check and make sure all your emissions stuff is working and hooked up properly. This probably wouldn't explain whats going on, but it never hurts to check.

The engine could be in need of a major tune up. This would be a good measure to take after figuring out the source of your current problem.


The answer to this problem seems to be really simple, but you have to check alot of things to find out.

DarrensCamaro

iTrader: (6)

Cause My 305 has no problem out running a semi or durango

Rayvan

Speak for your *own* thrid-gen, budd....

89_RS

I was referring to the average Third gen, not one such as yours. I read something awhile back about Camaros and the author had this to say about them: "All Camaro's looked fast, but very few of them ever were."

Thats the same case with the Third gen.

Aarons92Maro

Thanks a lot! I called the mechanic and he said that a couple of those scenarios was possible, but guarenteed that the distributor was on correctly. Still doesn't explain why it can be started unless the timing's off. I have a video here, this was right after a tune up, it got worse, but hopefully if there's anything else or just the same as you mentioned is wrong, the video would help...

0-60... in my Camaro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JR68...e=channel_page

89_RS

You're welcome. And that doesn't sound like a problem with timing, that sounds like a total loss of power. Revs fine to 60mph then flat lines, something ain't right.

This is a wild guess, but check to see if the speed limiter in the chip is set properly. That almost sounds like what happens when my sisters Jeep cuts off the fuel at 90mph. If that chip has the limiter set wrong, get it fixed.

Also, check the Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS), if its sending the wrong speed to the ECU, the car could be thinking its going faster than it really is and cutting off the fuel. Although I don't think this is the case because you are getting a correct speed readout on the speedo.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Something is DEFINATELY not right with that Camaro. This was my near stock TBI (headers, duals, ECM tuning), pulling around my fullsize van with 3.08 gears and a stock stalled 700r4. 0-60 wasn't even 10 seconds and thats an uphill run. 0-85 in about 20 or so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEeZ5ruugWA

I am thinking timing, fueling, and transmission TV cable adjustment. The engine seems to not be pulling well. Set the timing to TDC or 0* with the ignition bypass wire disconnected. Check the fuel pressure, should stay atleast 12 psi under WOT, full load in 2nd gear. Also you need to get the ECM numbers and prom broadcast code. I would also check the fuel injector numbers and color coding to be sure you have 305 injectors in it. There is a chance you may have 4.3 injectors or even 2.8/3.1 or even 4.1 cadillac injectors and they all flow less than the 55# hr needed by the L03. You could just as easily have 350 injectors, which will run you too rich at WOT and kill performance. I would take the time to be sure the TV cable for the transmission is adjusted properly, your transmission seems to shift very early.

89_RS

Yeah, you're right, something is amiss. Your van sounds just like my car. I'll try and get vid of mine tomorrow for comparison.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Why wouldn't it sound the same, it is practically identical.

89_RS

Because mine is still all stock whereas yours has a few "goodies".

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Ouch, that is painfully stock.

89_RS

Yep, but it won't be like that forever. Check out my thread about my mod and look at my parts list in my latest post. I know its not a conventional build and certainly ain't cheap but thats what I want to do after I graduate college.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...ore-mod-2.html

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Agreed, as these are the first things that came to mind when the OP stated that he switched back to the TBI setup, but ran fine with the carb. Fuel pressure, injector size, timing and TV cable adjustment, or a combination of two, are more than likely the culprits....

Aarons92Maro

Okay... sounds like a deal.

89_RS

Heres what a stock LO3 should sound like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnR0MpYT6zU

When I let my foot off the gas I was already at 50.

Aarons92Maro

Yeah... sounds good. And are your RPMS set too low? I know mine read 1,000 to high.

89_RS

Nope, they're accurate. Redline (i.e. max FWHP) for a stock LO3 is 4400rpm.

oldshool69

I have learned many secrets from Bracket racers from the 60's and would like to help
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The engine is an air pump so you have to trick the engine into thinking it is larger than it is by forcing more air ( barometrics)into and out of the engine

oldshool69

beuatiful car ET'S?

oldshool69

WHAT'S THE SCOOP?

Aarons92Maro

Thanks! It gets a lot of looks and attention. I'm on a mobile device now so I guess the best thing since I can't type to long is to skim the posts. Any ideas? Thank you!

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

did you JUST put this car up for sale with a description that includes "runs good, needs a bit on tuning"? because this seems like a bigger problem than a "little tuning", if you have been trying to fix it and cant after this long

Aarons92Maro

I listed it to see what I could sell it for. I really didn't want to get into the details now, because I intend on fixing the problems BEFORE SELLING. And that is what PM's and phone numbers are for. I would gladly tell anyone interested what's up with the car.

I found a '92 the same as mine, one owner, 65,000 original miles and I would be interested in buying that one if I could get a reasonable offer on mine.

Aarons92Maro

Also, I have not been trying to fix anything. The car has been stored now for two months. I am just now trying to find out what is going on. I couldn't afford to do anything more after pouring 5K into it in two months.

I honestly would hate to sell my car, I'd probably back out, but right now, I would like to know what it'll be worth when I fix a couple things.

kkingsrulee

lol are you sure you don't mean the "yellow line"? i'm pretty sure mine redlines at 5500

and aaron, you should look up how to do things to your car on your own here on the forums, you will save alot of money in labor costs. besides a blown motor resulting in you buying a brand new top of the line engine off of summit nothing else could possible cost you 5,000 dollars in repairs if you do the work yourself. most of these things the people are recommending aren't very difficult, look up how to do it yourself and try it out, these are pretty simple cars to work on, just be glad you don't have a fourth gen.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

imho yellow goes from 4.5 to 5k, with redline starting at 5krpm. but i think since all 305's are virtually identical, you could as well rev it up to about 5.5 with the stock parts IF you have the mods to actually make power at these rpms, and of course a healthy fueling/oiling/ignition system
the yellow&redline on the TBIs is imho just there to indicate there's no power to be made above 4.5

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

I really doubt those basic things will get you to 210whp. MAYBE 170-180whp, 210whp would be if you did all that and added an LT1 cam.

89_RS

Redline and max power aren't one in the same. Technically speaking, redline is where the engine produces max power, beyond that the power curve falls off. But many people like to use the term redline to indicate shift points. I'll use the LO3 as an example. The tach shows redline at 5000, but the engine produces max power at 4400. So in essence what the redline on the tach is showing is the max allowable shift point over max power. The only thing gained by having a shift point higher than the max power rpm is that when you shift, the engine is at higher revs when it enters the next gear and produces power much closer to its max output.

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

I highly doubt you can get 40hp just from a tune on a stock motor. Maybe 10-20. And full exhaust on an L03 is MAYBE 15hp, honestly with such low hp the exhaust doesent hold them back much in stock form.
With an LT1 cam, tune and exhaust you will see 200whp, not on a stock motor though.

40hp on a motor with 140 stock is a HUGE % increase, I dont see it being possible with just computer tuning.

89_RS

...

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Wow, thats way off. Ive done all those mods, I know the results, lol. The exhaust will not give you 30hp. Maybe 15 like I said. Trust me, the stock exhaust does suck, but the motor makes such low hp that the exhaust doesent hold it back THAT much.

89_RS

...

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Yeh, 30hp from the exhaust on a stock L03 is WAY optimistic. Please dont say things like that, someone might read it and think they will get those results. It just propagates ignorance. If it was so easy to get 200+ whp from a stock TBI 305, Im sure it would be a higher regarded engine.