Tbi-MAX

sweet, i will pick up a set of new covers... also it looks like ill be doing the tranny this week or next... i just got some extra funds for this project... so im about to order the internals for the tranny, valve covers, long tube headers... this time when everything is ready, it will be custom tunned with the Ostrich at the same time.

after all that, all my truck will need to be perfect, is a 4" lift with new shocks... I will love it forever...

question? is roller rockers 1.6 going to fit under the same valve covers? cause next summer, im going to install a roller cam shaft with more lift, and wanted roller rockers too. just making preparations for the future, so i dont need to buy another set of valve covers..

wow my tranny guy did give me a great price, maybe i should take the 15-1700 offer, cause he says he will warranty it for a year, if it breaks he fixes... but im going to just bring him the tranny with the parts, so i can squeeze extra money on parts like some long tubes headers, etc..

JohnBlazeLTZ

Hey Max...

Dude...I have heard of some guys swap/retrofit to a roller cam and not all of them are successful. I think you shouldn't mess with a good thing. Just leave it how it is.

Roller rocker will be a nice addition...but be aware they are usually louder than the stock ones. Roller rockers are known to be noisy. Like...the LT4 engines used to come with roller rocker but they had to upgrade the knock sensor because they were so noisy that they were setting off the knock sensor. This is just proof that they are much louder than the stocker stamped ones.

What do you have in there now? 1.5's or 1.6's? If you have 1.5's you might be able to jump up to a set of 1.6's and that would give you a bit more lift. I know I have 1.5's stock...and that going to 1.6's would give me some more lift...but I have a roller engine. Since you have a Flat Tappet...check with one of the other guys for advice...I am not an engine builder so I truly do not know if you would be in danger of damaging anything by going to 1.6's.

I really think the best thing you could do now is look into getting some headers...that will really help you out a lot...and get a dedicated Cold Air Intake (CAI). These two things I think would be far more important than anything else right now...besides the trans of course. Those to things will help with tuning and drive ability. I would say don't go to far too soon...get to know the engine and what its capable of before you start throwing more money at it.

Its really easy to get carried away...I would say get it tuned and be happy with it for a while...do some more research and then decide on what's in store for the next stage at a later date. Get it tuned...take care of it...treat it right...change the oil regularly and enjoy it. I know I probably am not qualified to say this but...don't let it consume you!!!!

BTW...I have a TBI supercharger if you are interested... LOL...just kidding just kidding...it wouldn't do a 383 justice...a 383 would need a unit bigger than my A-Trim.

Tbi-MAX

thanks for the advice buddy.... yea, I think once I get my tranny working correct, I wont even be thinking of a cam or rockers... From the 1st day I drove it off, i was like damn, all that tq... got tossed around, just being easy on it... but tranny has went down a whole lot since then...
i remember climbing hills, not downshifts, slipping, about 65mph @ 1.5 rpm... just so much low end...

now i went up a really small hill last, and the engine has to do 2rpm to maintain speed... and speed drops in the middle of the hill like 5-7mph... i have to give it more throttle... feels like im driving a car... lol

im a 100% sure the tranny has dumped now, cause it barely makes it up hills now.. and in gear i have a vibration and noise coming from the trans...

I think once I get my TQ back, ill be a-OK...

it just amazing, even tho i have to give it more throttle, its so much tq still there, it still doesnt down shift at times!! but it is shifting more than normally, and like double shifting going up some hills...

i have stock 1.5 rockers... my engine is totally quite, noisy part of my truck is the tranny... I miss my CAI i had before... Im going to redo the same exact setup... it looks stock, and I think it flows as much or better than any aftermarket setup.. and gets it straight from the fender. no thermac, muffler, and fully open... I really grew to HATE this open element!! I cant even wash my engine like I normally do...

ohh yea, you know headers are getting ordered with tranny parts...
thanks again for keeping me grounded... Ohh yea, I love changing my oil, just rolling under the truck, no lift or nothing, can do it pretty quick... should be easier with my 4" lift too, lol

BTW truck is going to tranny guy most likely tmrw.... sometime this week for sure.

Tbi-MAX

i cant wait to do a major cleanup after all this work gets done, engine bay, under body, & interior... prob take a entire day or two.. but will look amazing...

JohnBlazeLTZ

Yup...really easy to get carried away...that's why I bought a supercharger that I have had for 2 1/2 years and ain't done a dang thing with it...

Dude...I remembered one thing about flat tappet in trucks/SUV's. The flat tappet doesn't ramp up as fat as a roller cam...that is true. Since a truck "usually" is in a working type atmosphere...the flat tappet allows for a more gradual build up of power. Its been explained to me that a large heavy vehicle that lurches off the line hard increases the load on the entire drive train. Imagine your big heavy Burb with a roller cam...remember roller cams allow for a sharper ramp to get into the power band faster...with all that TQ that 383 has over the stock 350...your running the risk of putting to much stress on the drive train. Considering you already roasted the tranny...I think you should stick with the flat tappet cam!!! LOL...Point proven!!!! This is exactly why I want a 383 for my Caprice...its such a heavy car...and the stock cam's specs are so mild that its always been a huge waste of an engine. My car came with a TBI 350 from the factory with the F-Body 305 Peanut Cam and swirl port 193 heads. This is probably one of the most weakest combo's Chevy EVER had in a 350. 180 pathetic HP...that's it. I have done some bolt ons and got as much out of it as possible. I am just going to run the engine into the ground with the hope that I can build a REAL engine in the future.

I think you should just do what ever slight drive ability mods you need and enjoy it. Start learning tuning and then maybe get some slight exterior dress up things and some bolt on's...that should pretty much do it....just enjoy it...but make sure its rock solid before you start getting crazy...at this rate...you may not make it through the break in period before you do something insane.

Tbi-MAX

You are right about the cam, its had gobbles of tq already.. about the tranny the guys on FSC was saying i should do the 4L80e swap, which is way stronger than the 60e, and about the same price... from what ive understood, just a stock 4l80e with a shift kit is good for 460rwhp!! but ill still beef it up, with better than stock parts...

my concern is if the pcm will control the 4l80e? how much is involved with this swap, if anyone on here knows...

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

With the vortecs you will also need machine work to the heads for at least screw in rocker studs. Youll also at least need LS1 springs and retainers, or machine work to accept conventional springs/dampers. I found out that the stock exhaust valve retainer groove on the heads is .030" lower then the intake, which means that the max recommended lift may only .420" instead of .450" like every one says. All this time Ive likely been running them with near zero clearance on the exhaust side. I pulled the heads for measurements and minor machine work, and even with the offset LS1 retainers, Im still only going to have around .470" of lift by my measurements. Enough for most flat tappet cams, but not enough for 1.6 ratio rockers. Alternatively, I could switch the exhaust valves out, which may not be a bad idea while I have the heads off.

Tbi-MAX

ok more info about the 4L80e i obtained...

it has a higher 1st gear ratio than the 60e which make it feels slower on launch... also it uses a extra 8-12 hp... plus the added weight, slightly longer... it uses steel internals instead of aluminum like the 4l60e... I also heard with the correct differential, shift kit, tune, it makes up for it much more...

here is what it does on launch...
http://www.neufamily.org/4l80e/crazylaunch.WMV

but can someone explain how he roasted this car on take off, but the car was right back on him, by 2nd gear shift, then he dawged him again once it caught?
http://www.neufamily.org/4l80e/boomboom.wmv

I really dont want to loose with this swap, but i belive with my 3.73 gears it would move pretty good, and I have the 2wd so the swap is much easier without the tcase...

this is what must be done:

"
4L80 & torque converter
Add two wires for 2nd 4L80 speed sensor that 4L60 doesn't have
Change one pin on truck side wiring harness
Move tranny crossmember back about two inches - holes are already there
Change input shaft in transfer case from 27 spline to 32 spline - requires complete transfer case disassembly
Shorten rear driveshaft and lengthen front
Rework transmission cooler hoses

"

Tbi-MAX

even with my vortec heads with the .52 lift from Scobby **** would i have to do this? cause I believe its already modded for higher lift, and uses different springs.. thats why i thought it would be easy to do... anyways, im leaving that alone for now... just worried about tranny and headers now... I dont think i need roller rockers yet.

JohnBlazeLTZ

Well...to me in the first one it looks like he must have Posi...there's no way a tuck without Posi can hook up like that. I mean...it was kinda messy there for a second but...he still hooked and that truck started going pretty quick.

The 2nd one sounded like he broke something. If you listen closely...he said..."What was that?" Then he yells to the Supra..."Hey I broke" the link has "BoomBoom" in the title so...he had to of broke something...maybe even the trans...could've been a u-joint...could've been the rear end.

To me...both links show how much stress the drive line of that truck is under...trans can only take so much abuse. So many people rebuild them with stock internals thinking they will support the extra power of a new engine and they don't.

The internal problem with the 4L60e is mainly the Stock Sunshell. Guys with Impala SS have problems with that trans because of the size of the car. I mean...think about it...when the throttle is stabbed hard...the massive hulk of the car has to start moving forward...for a brief second it motionless...then it lurches off idle and takes off down the road/strip. Where does all that force get multiplied at? The trans...it all get soaked up by the trans...that and the bottom end of the engine. The stock Sunshell is so flimsy under stress that it will actually crack or worse...shatter. The shift kits also helped with correcting some of the problem areas...but really some guys get nuts and get the HD servo or the Billet servo and the amount of apply is so strong that its a matter of a few pulls before that tranny could grenade because the stock parts can't handle the harshness of the shift. It all goes along with what I was saying in the previous post....the weight of a car has everything to do with how long it lasts in a performance application. You should probably build it to handle as much as possible.

Here...check this...

http://racetransmissions.com/store/p...roducts_id/692

JohnBlazeLTZ

Wow that is toooo close for comfort!!!!!!!!!!! (Double EEK!!!)

See max...I told you I didn't know if you could use 1.6 rockers...I didn't know Vortec's made any difference...I am glad Dimented chimed in on this or it could've been disasterous.

Tbi-MAX

yea you are correct, cause thats what they said on FSC is to get the BEAST sunshell if im keeping the 60E ... and a full master rebuild kit, and stay away from kevlar bands...

but i fully agree with the weight issue... i mean those guys are building the 60E up to level 3-5 and still snapping them after a few runs! 1 guy has rebuilt his 60e 3 times! but like you said it certain parts that have more load on others, once you build it up properly... so what another guy was saying is dont build up too much in certain areas as clutches and gears too much pressure... sorta made sense, cause he kept from blowing the tranny after along time.

but the 4l80e is like 10x better than a built 60e from what the guys are saying! even a stock 80e with a transgo kit is good for 700ftlbs at the crank! i think the heavy vehicles need this 80e tranny instead. cause even some corvette guys are using it just for durability.

im really wanting a 80E not a 60E... im getting ready to see if my trans guy has one, he will trade and build up... what I need to know is if the Ostrich 2.0 can be tunned to control the transmission shifts, when i tune it? cause its the same pcm i have and it controls both the 60e and 80e! all i need is the new shift tables...

JohnBlazeLTZ

Yeah...I totally agree...I wasn't implying that you should build the 60e...I guess I shouldv'e been more clear in my post. How about this...you could spend a bunch of money on a 60e and still blow it up...I have seen it a lot in all the years I used to spend on the Imp SS forums. Many have now gone to the 80e...(and some have even went ***** deep and got a t56 6 speed conversion but that is a whole other animal...) which from what I know of is "almost" exactly the same in size and dimension for the most part. I think there are SOME slight mods that are needed but for what you end up with...any headache that may occur would be so much more worth it in the end. You are planning on towing and you have a Burb already...its a natural fit for your application. 80e hands down if you can swing it...swing it...cuz it'll be a nice addition!!!!!!!!

Tbi-MAX

well im decided now, im going with the 4L60E! I had a long talk with my transmission guy today... he also agreed the 80E is much better, etc... came to a conclusion that I would get a 4l80e along with the entire driveshaft and wire harness and pcm from a 2500 with the 350 and the 4l80e... all the pcm stuff for the 80e will have to be present before we even start the truck to put it in gear, otherwise bad things could happen. he didnt have a 80E at the shop so I was out of luck on the swap part...

in conclusion it would be more down time, doing the 80E swap, when he can rebuild my beefed up 60E and have it ready in 1day!! He said I should be gracious the 60E last 200k!! that makes it a no-brainer why to rebuild it even stronger. he was saying GM knows what they did when they put these in the 1/2 tons, and with the Vette servo, he said it would hall like a Vette also in 2nd gear up to a 100 if needed.. he is also going to make my shifts nice and firm, which also at a later date, i can tune with the Ostrich...

the BEAST shell of course, Vette servos, S10 stall, all new Solenoids, Steel gears instead of Aluminum, hi-pump, etc, etc... plus all this is going to have a 1 year warranty! so I can spank it until then... he said once I get the trans back in, I wont be thinking of a 80E at all...

but he is still up to do whatever i decided... but ive decided on the 60E! this will also leave $$ for headers, and custom 3" exhaust.... I cant wait... also how quick can i get running with the Ostrich?

edit***
ohh and I get to keep that sweeeet 1st gear pull....

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Ok. No worries. The stock ones are a different story.

Tbi-MAX

ok cool....

Tbi-MAX

update:

taking the truck in for rebuilt beefed up 60e in the morning or maybe tonight... it will be ready in 1 day things go well.. so im telling him to get the parts today for tmrw.. im just going to clean the interior real well today... take it easy.. then the exterior stuff when it gets done. also need to drop those valve covers on there today or something... im looking at 1500 plus small other parts, so withing 15-2000 in the end is what im thinking, more like 17, so i may still get the headers...

i got pretty messed up last night, and sorta lossed my extra cash for my headers... so that will have to wait another week... long long night last night.. still trying to figure out what happened...

JohnBlazeLTZ

Yeah...I kind thought the 80e swap would've been expensive. Its kinda like doing a whole engine swap... I thought you were going to be needing a different computer and that there were things that were going to make the money add up. I think a built 60e should be able to suffice for you. The thing I forgot to mention about the 80e swaps in B-Body's was that the majority of guys doing it were putting down much bigger numbers than your 383...some of these guys had 396's some had blowers...none of them were running less than 400 hp...and lots of them are heavily mod'd to require such a stout trans like the 80E.

Tbi-MAX

Yea, he also said the 80E was overkill, maybe if I had a turbo, whipple or 700ftlbs of tq.... Im just glad he talked me out of it, and your advice John it really helped... He just called in the parts this afternoon, so Ill be there 1st thing in the AM to drop it off, and it will be ready that day!!

Tbi-MAX

great now this.. a few guys on FSC think the 60e is a bad idea... but i think Ill be ok, cause Im not turbo or supercharged..

" First of all, a 4l60-E is a 2-speed trans plus overdrive. There are two planetary gear sets in it.
A 4L80-E is a 3-speed trans plus overdrive. These have three planetary gear sets.

The 4L60-E input shaft goes to a huge aluminum drum that houses all the clutches. This drum spins within two thinly stamped out components making up the reverse-input and reaction sun shells. These are brittle. All this large-diameter spinning mass also has no center support. It's all held by the pump bushings and the tailshaft bushings. Also, the way these components are designed, when certain clutches are applied they impart a spreading force between the front and rear of the transmission. The worst feature of all - it shifts the overdrive with a band. (Second gear is really overdriven Low and fourth gear is overdriven Direct.) All the major torque-transferring components inside a 4L60-E are aluminum. The pump in a 4L60-E is a cheesy vane-type pump, and of course it is fragile.

The 4L80-E has drums too but they are self-contained clutch packs and pistons. None of them has a foot-long thin input shaft fused to them either, and these drums are all steel. There are no "shells" or any comparable bullshit stamped parts spinning in a 4L80-E. The 4L80-E, like a TH400, has a center support separating the main geartrain from the clutch drums. Neither of the two bands in the 80 are used for forward shifing, they are only for manual low-range overrun and for reverse. All the torque-handling parts in a 4L80-E are steel. The only aluminum torque-related parts are the clutch pistons and the overdrive piston housing. The 4L80-E uses a gear pump that is so powerful it's been known to crack the early-model 4L80-E's in half when their pressure solenoids got stuck.

The reason a band has no business shifting a heavy-duty transmission is that bands do not respond well to increased demand. If you try to apply a band too fast or too hard it will pick up torque from the drum it's in contact with and self-energize causing violent engagement. A traditional clutch pack has a very linear response to increased apply force. They do not have any tendency to grab like bands do. In a 4L60-E there is one band used to engage "second" and again to engage "fourth". This band is undersized and over-worked. If it has to shift too much torque the shift becomes jarring and violent and that leads to breakage, not to mention being unpleasant.

There are plenty of other reasons, but I've got other stuff to do today.

Besides use with 4 or 5 cylinder engines, and perhaps the 2.8L V6, there is only one other place a 4L60-E belongs...."





AIR BURBAN.... but I dont think mines will be doing this....


got TQ?

suffice it, I think im STILL making the correct decision with the 60e...

JohnBlazeLTZ

No problem man...I have already gone through 2 trans. The first one grenade'd on me in 22K. It had a 20K warranty on it and the guy didn't want to bend. I almost sued him...I mean...the stock one lasted 156K but his high quality pro built trans takes a dump on me in 22K and it was put up behind a pathetic 180hp 350 TBI??? It just didn't make sense...it would've been better if I had 400hp and it failed...but behind a bone stock engine with bolt-on's??? Naw. No way. I was p'd off. So...after I went back and forth with him...it turns out that he accidentally admitted to reusing the lock up selinoid...which is the part that failed...and after a few people that knew him that knew me intervened on my behalf...they convinced him to eat the tow bill and the labor...and I would pay for the parts. So...I got another $1800 trans for the cost of all the parts....which I think was 700 bucks. The sad thing is that in the end I paid 2500 between the two trans. when all was said and done. Pretty sad...look at how much more stuff I could've gotten done to my car for that kind of money.

Bottom line is man...I don't like seeing people repeat any mistakes that I have already gone through. Maybe I have some sort of bleeding heart complex...but I like to help people...and if I don't know what I am talking about...I admit it. If I think I know what I am talking about and I find out that I don't...I own up to it. I may be a bit nuts...and like any average person...I have had my share if issues but I try to help people as much as possible. Ever since I seen your post about the 383 TBI to begin with...I hoped that you would pull it off successfully...because no body else on 3rd Gen has. There HAVE been Truck guys that have found success on Full Size Chevy...but not many on 3rd Gen. I've been pulling for you man...and until you get it tuned and get all the things that go along with it taken care of...your still not out of the woods yet....I'll still be pulling for you. There's a great group of guys around here and your lucky to have had the help you have had so far...

Tbi-MAX

Im pretty much the same as you man, I will help as much to someone going threw something I already dealt with. and areas and things they should avoid, or where I made my mistakes. I dont claim to know much at all, and have gotten a great deal of help over here. I mean I learn something new on this site all the time. and just like my parents thought me, you never stop learning till the day you past... which is so true, one could never think he knows it all.. I am extremely appreciative by what the guys on here helped me with.. Each person helped where they were best at and experienced at...

I do know its not over until I get this sucker tuned in, to be fully greatfull and appreciative of the BEAST...

JohnBlazeLTZ

Hey Max...I am not sure that this statement is entirely true. Maybe the 60E was set up different for trucks...I am not sure. From what I know...the 4l60E is a 4 speed trans...its the same trans they used in the Vette...and its the same thing that used to be known as the 700R4...which is also a 4 speed. When your in OD...its a 4 speed. When you drive in D...its a 3 speed without OD...When I first drove the Caprice I used to drive in D in the city and switch into OD on the Highway above 55mph....I drove it the same way until it blew up at 156K. The trans guys all told me I was lucky to have made it to that mileage because the 700R4 was so prone to early failure...probably due to a lot of the same reasons you mentioned previously.

(FYI...In 1993 the 700R4 was renamed the 4L60. It wasn't electronic so it didn't get an "e" at the end. GM did that to distance it self from the "problematic" legacy the 700R4 had through the late 1980's and early 1990's but even though it was named a 4L60 in 1993...it was still a beefed up upgraded 700R4 because they finally managed to fix all it fatal flaws...too bad it took them 10 years to do it.)

Once the Trans Go was installed...it apparently allows you to drive around in OD all the time...so there was no more sliding the shifter up/down into/out of OD. From what the Dealership guys I used to know told me when I got the car...that was the right way to drive that car. Some people didn't think so...but it seemed to work for me like that. The Tranny guy I had build the trans...even though he was a douche bag...told me that after the trans gets built...its SUPPOSED to stay in OD all the time. I don't really know the actual truth but...whatever...I've been driving it on OD all the time since the 2nd trans got installed and its been done like that for 32K now...no issues yet.

The Vette Servo made a great difference and so did the 2200rpm stall converter. The shift kit will hold what ever gear I want and I can shift it manually if I so choose but I don't...why push my luck. The trans will break the tires loose at 2nd gear if I want it to. The trans was the greatest upgrade I did. It finally made all my bolt-on's worth while. The stock trans was such a dog that it didn't matter what I did to the engine I barely felt a difference and it finally made the 3.08 Posi noticeable. Put it this way...before I did the trans...I couldn't even break the tires loose at a dead stop...now I smash the throttle and it will turn the tires over and I can slide out the rear end sitting still...and that's out of a peanut cam and 193 cylinder heads. Imagine if I did just a few of the things that Fast does to TBI engines...the thing would lay smoke...

Once I had the suspension entire front/rear suspension done including all front end joints all bushings front and rear with police springs and new Monroe Severe service shocks all the way around...BMR Heavy Duty Front/Rear Sway bars...the car was like on rails when compared how the stock set up was. It took off so nicely and it could hit a corner with the best of them...I can whip a U-Turn like its no body's business...it was a beautiful thing. I surprise so many people with how that big car handles. Its not as tight as say an Imp SS but the one thing I really like is that the car doesn't sit as low as the Imp SS...its sits up much higher than an SS and I can climb curbs and stuff pretty easily...and do it at speed too. The coil springs are variable rate and when they compress...they actually give back a bit in return for stability sakes. The car is totally different than what it was like from the factory...the engine is the only thing that is lacking now....and the paint/exterior would be last to finish it off.

Tbi-MAX

UPDATES:

4L60e is beefed up and in there... took 4hrs total. 1hr for remove/install others for build. It has a higher stall he recommended, cause he said the S10 or 2000 stall would be too high... his supply guy also said the same.. i went with the middle, its like a 1700 stall.. bigger than stock 1200.. plus it will still stall higher behind the stroker... BEAST sunshell installed, Vette servo, NEW solenoids, drilled out plate, clutches, bands, everything steamed cleaned..

what went wrong? the pin-ball made a indent in the valve body, made like a lil hill, so it got stock.. my clutches were burnt, band worn... but other than that internally great for 200k miles!

what a huge difference in weight with the beast shell vs the stock shell...

i waited on the transgo hd2 kit, cause he said feel how i like it 1st, then go from there... but i think i do want the kit also! so ill be back up there tmrw...

it sure drives alot better, and my TQ is back on the board... i do notice with this higher stall, my rpms are up more than usual just a tad... but I think i would have rather the stock stall speed better... maybe when I tune things up in the pcm for stall speed, etc, etc, ill be happier with the higher stall.. 1-2 is alot stronger, and third is also.. Whats left is tuning, tuning, tuning... i need to set the engine up properly, and tranny shifts...

so after all that work, which was needed... i also gave the burb a fresh treatment of Rotella T oil change as usual...

but its still a rattle, the same one ive always had for the longest time, in gear at idle.. the tranny guy said it has to be the exhaust, and i think it is the kulprit also... he going to put me back in the air tmrw to find out, but i smell longtube headers, custom wye, NEW CAT, with single 3" pipe....

JohnBlazeLTZ

Max...

I have a secret to tell you...

YOU NEED A TUNE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TIME TO GET IT TUNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(THEN GET A VIDEO CAMERA....RECORD THE ENGINE RUNNING...THEN PUT IT ON YOU TUBE SO WE CAN ALL SEE IT....)





JB

Tbi-MAX

yea, its coming real soon.... REAL soon
today im about to see where my noise is still coming from today. but has to be the exhaust or that wye pipe... i dont know what a bad catalytic converter sounds like, but i do have that egg smell occasionally for the last 2 years. my trans guy said he will install my shift kit hd2 1st thing next week, or i can order 1 online lil cheaper...

also getting new calipers, and brake lines today, maybe exhaust today too..
ill keep posting...

Tbi-MAX

John, are you also saying that i may not like my higher stall, because of the current tune? the stock lower stall, had alot of bottom end... but then again the pcm was tuned to that lower stall...

I need to figure out what stall im going to keep, or if get the lower stall again?
what stall will be best with the tune, and my cam or whatever?

JohnBlazeLTZ

Git r done!

JohnBlazeLTZ

My computer didn't need a tune for a higher stall....but yours I think does. Its a 4L60e and it needs to go along with what the computer is programmed for. I don't think you should take it out for a weaker stall though. Just get the computer tuned for the new converter...its that simple. I thinks its common knowledge that GM put pretty weak TQ converters in their autos and trucks. Like I went up to a 2200rpm S10 converter. My stock one was rated at 1200RPM. That alone really let the car run out better. I don't know what your truck came with though. I would just make sure that the gears and the TQ converter are working together. Basically start with your cam and move back. Check what gears and TQ converter the cam requires...that is going to be your best bet in deciding the right drive train combo. If the computer needs programming to jive with the TQ converter...then just get it tuned...but I wouldn't drive it until you know for sure. I am under the impression that you are still driving it right? I just wouldn't have been driving this thing...its un-tuned that should be the clincher right there...until that thing is tuned you shouldn't be driving it. I mean...an engine out of tune can cause some serious damage. This is a process that needs to be finished before it is driven regularly...I wouldn't even take it to the store for groceries or to even visit a friend. And if you NEED to drive it because you don't have any other mode of transportation then take the tuning equipment you got to a tuner and get it tuned. You had this thing up for a while now...it needs to be tuned.

beatercoprice

I am very suprised it even runs without a tune. Must something to do with the PCM opposed to the ECM, cause guys do a simple cam swap on a ECM car and they wont even get out of the driveway without a tune...

JohnBlazeLTZ

Absolutely. That is why I am so nervous for him...I don't want to see it go south.

I BELIEVE the later model years could "LEARN" to some extent...even the EPROM based computers could LEARN but not to a great extent. A 383 is pretty far away from stock. I mean...a 355 would've been one thing but its bored and stroked...its not like anything that ever came from factory with TBI.

Tbi-MAX

yea, it runs good, pretty strong, but i never took it over 3krpm in gear! i mean thats more than enuff to do everything.. must be the PCM like you said, it did learn as I changed more.. but like John was saying I need to tune for the new parameters... i know ive been playing it close, its not my only driver, but I still managed to rackup over 5k not going no where... so the driveway thing maybe true with the ECMs... not the PCMs

I dont know why it feels like its already tunned, maybe cause it just idles most of the time, as the trip and mileages moves... you dont need lot of power to do much with this combo... at 75 mph @ 2100 rpm....
I also noticed, I can be at the same rpm, and jump like 10mph just in speed...

ive been babying it, trust me guys, but im going to put a serious spanking on it when it gets tuned this week. my main thing was getting all the hardware together at 1st, then doing 1 tune.. spanking meaning 6k RPM!! just got to make sure of fuel, timming, etc.. but at 2.5k rpm or under this thing is strong without the tune..

Tbi-MAX

yea you are right again John... i like how the engine does stay in the powerband now.. i can switch through all gears, and it average right at 2krpm or better. VS dropping to 1500rpm from a 3krpm shift... keeps alot of power to the tires...

its just the lower stall would snap my neck on take off, but like you said, i have to tune the "E" for the new stall... I did notice it chirped higher in rpm too.. i guess i also have more control with this stall, i can actually take off slow now.. if i wanted...

my cam is like 2 -5krpm power band, stall is at 1700 or so, but higher behind 383, gears 3.73

stock truck came with 1256 stall i believe... guys on FSC use the S10 (2200) some use 3krpm stalls in their fullsizes.... I think the higher stall sacrifices some fuel economy... but i wouldnt like anything higher, is what im thinking...

i feel the urgency on the tune just like you John, it will thank me.... well maybe Alvin from PCM4less write me a quick chip, no dyno or anything and i go pick it up and use that, untill i start to mess with the Ostrich... should be less than the mail order... and he can show me the shop... i call him today also.

Tbi-MAX

Well I cant get through on the phone to Alvin.. dont want to drive up there right now... How do I contact Moates for the Ostrich 2.0? and is it direct plug-in... see I dont have my laptop anymore either... ill have to get a cord for my other laptop or something...

the 2.0 is 28 pin, but isn't the 7747 a 24 pin? I need to know if the Ostrich 2.0 will work with my system in my 95 burban. I want to order all things together.

EDIT*

well Alvin said he wanted to do a full tune, dyno and all, and for me to leave the vehicle about 2-3 days with him. he said he swears by it, no ones tune will be better... but ill have to wait till MON to give him a call back, cause he is always freaking booked up! I mean, I talked with FAST also and he was telling me about the amount of time is involved with tunning...

"20% of time for 80% of results, and the 80% of time fine tuning for the other 20% of results.... "

I agree with FAST it will be involved, Im thinking now, just about getting Alvin to do the dyno, which I should have been done.. and then later down the road.. I pull his bin, and you guys take a look at it, and by that time I start to tune myself with all the tools by then... cause ill prob have bigger injectors, but i doubt ill be changing much more..

longtubes, exhaust, and dyno is what im thinking now... all this week... so after its tunned, that will be it, not adding any more parts...

please sure thoughts...

85 camero

im trying to get this 383 stroker
only cost $2800 and free shipping to!


STOCK COMPUTER COMPATIBLE!

1987½-1995 Pickup Truck or Suburban and some Passenger Cars including Camaro and Firebird

This engine would be EXCELLENT for just about any pickup truck, suburban, blazer, 4X4, RV, or passenger car including Camaro and Firebird. This is a direct bolt in to pull out that tired 305 or 350 and bolt in some horsepower to bring that old vehicle to life with 330HP and 410ft lbs of torque. It is computer compatible and has a smooth idle, great low end and midrange power, and works well with either a manual or automatic transmission. The included Edelbrock Performer aluminum intake manifold is for TBI fuel injection only. This engine will run on leaded or unleaded pump fuel. It will pass emissions and you can even run your stock computer!
The balanced rotating assembly (typically includes crankshaft, pistons, rings, connecting rods, rod bearings, and balancer) featured in this engine:

• 3.750" stroke cast/steel crank
• 5.7" forged rods with ARP rod bolts
• 9.2 to 1 compression hypereutectic pistons

More special features of this engine include:

• Deck head gasket surface on block to ensure a good seal
• New Hydraulic flat tappet cam with .448"Int/.472"Exh valve lift
• Dart/Pro/GM Performance heads with high performance springs setup to match cam
• New Screw-in rocker studs with guide plates
• New Perfect Circle rings
• New Double row timing set
• New High volume oil pump with welded big pickup screen and steel drive shaft and steel guide
• New 1-pc design molded rubber oil pan gasket with load limiters to prevent over-tightening and higher temperature resistance than standard cork-rubber gaskets
• New Brass expansion plugs
• New Edelbrock Performer aluminum intake manifold for TBI only
• All parts are painted separately before assembly for that show quality look
• No need for a special flywheel or flexplate like other 383's you see, this engine is balanced so that you can reuse the flywheel or flexplate off of your 1987½-1995 305 or 350

This engine comes completely assembled with oil pan, chrome bowtie timing cover, harmonic balancer, chrome valve covers at no extra charge, and an aluminum TBI intake manifold.
This engine is covered by a 12 month, 12,000 mile written warranty.
(There is no warranty when using a Blower, Turbo, Super Charger or NOS)

Tbi-MAX

i doubt highly that is computer compatible with anything older than the 95 pcm... and that also will need alot of tunning to get it to work flawlessly...

85 camero

go to TUFF DAWG ENGINES and read the fine print.The sell multiple performance engines.

JohnBlazeLTZ

Yeah that's basically what every 383 TBI will start at...around that hp/tq ratings...and that's a basic tune and most likely they have rated it for a single out exhaust and not duals. They test them like how it would be in a stock application without headers and other complimentary parts that would most likely get it above those ratings. Seriously though Max...this is most likely what you could have very easily if the engine is well tuned.

85 camero

im putting it in an 85 berlinneta and my 88 c1500 pickup with headers duals into some flowmaster 40 series.tranny are 700r4s that are getting racing rebuilds with shift kits.

Tbi-MAX

updates:

got rid of the dreaded rattle, i thought was my tranny at 1st, so i replaced that, it needed too though... the pin ball made a indent in the plate, cause it to stick there, giving me a horrible 1-2.... got the 60e rebuilt in like 4hrs..

but back to my rattle...
got the catalatic converter removed for 30$ and replaced with 3" pipe... the truck sounds like a 07... with a v8 rumble, slightly louder, but still ultra quite... I cant wait to change the entire exhaust...

also on MON my truck is going to PCM4LESS and get dyno tuned, im tired of waiting on myself to jump at the tunning... and i dont have much time, and tired of putting it off.. Alvin also convinced me it will be perfect with the dyno tune, and specific to my setup.. he wants it for 2 days or so..


now my questions are...

i need suggestions of small things, I can tell him to do in my tune... like keep converter locked at 2nd gear... stuff like that etc... any tips you guys use? just the small stuff that counts too... the more tips the better....

Tbi-MAX

ok this is what i got so far....
this is what he asks on mail order tunes, but ill actually be on a dyno and my truck their for a couple days...

i answered these, but i need to know what else like i said above... also i have a few question in here too.

egr: disabled (cause i have none) / removed
tranny: 4l60e beefed up, vette servo, transgo hd2 kit
stall: 1656
tire: 265/75/15 - will be bigger next year, and im getting lifted 4-6"
shift firmness: firm as possible? or something different??
injectors: 350 with high psi
fuel: premium or mid ?? i dont know if i can use regular octane, my compression is really high like 10:1... my trans guy said it hurt his spleen turning the flywheel... im sure he can still tune for 87... but what is the best octane tune?
maf: none
speed limiter: remove
rev limiter: tuners choice
tstat: 160
desensitize knock sensor: ??? yes ??
idle: tuners choice
throttle body size: stock 350
manifold: shorties now that are stock, but im getting longtubes after the tune, so im going to tell him that too...
catback: muffler only
cat: gone
evap can: yes
knock diagnostics: yes
ac trouble codes: yes
intake manifold: cyclone - idle - 5500 rpm
camshaft: 214/224 @ 50 & .442/.465 - 112
rocker: 1:5
heads: vortec performance heads with .52 lift!
compresson: 10:1
displacement: 383

in the future, long tubes & exhaust next, bigger injectors, bigger roller cam something with .500 lift... but lets just say the last of those are next year...


also what about shift tables? or shift patterns etc?

anybody?

Tbi-MAX

ok, so i want him also to make the trans lockup in 2nd gear also, as that is disabled in the stock tune... since i have a slightly higher stall 1656... I remember Fast305 recommended this, tcc lockup @ 25mph. enabling lockup in 2nd gear...

BMmonteSS

I really don't suggest keeping the converter locked up at WOT. You only put undue strain on the converter. The TCC clutch in the 4l60 really isn't all that robust. I only got 5 or 6 WOT shifts into 3rd gear before it started slipping in my 700-R4, and this was in a 3500 lb car.

It won't really matter what modifications you are planning to do as you'll have to retune everytime you make changes.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

We are not talking WOT lockup, just part-throttle lockup around town for better driveability and fuel economy

Tbi-MAX

ok, about the modifications, by that time i will be tunning my own truck, i just need something for now... im not modding anytime soon, except for long tubes...
----------
okay, so PART-throttle lockup only... sweet, anything for better mpg... im pretty used to the higher stall aready. it doesnt drop lower than 2000 rpm, so its plenty of power still for use.


again, im just going to dyno it, cause im not doing anything major in a good while, by that time ill have my own stuff, and will be changing his tune... so im just doing the truck a favor now. ill post the dyno sheet and stuff, i really dont know what to expect. but by his tunes, his curve is flat... its only 1 tbi on the website, maybe i can be the 2nd one..

thanks for giving me that tip to FAST...

http://www.pcmforless.com/index.php?...d=59&Itemid=40

this is what he did with a stock tbi and baby cam

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

350, 8.5:1 compression, stock Peanut L03 roller cam, stock 810 swirl ports, edelbrock 3704, stock TBI, stock exhaust manifolds, stock exhaust.



Ouch, not all that great, IMO. Guess it is adequate for a stock head 350. This is what the same 350 made with 10.5:1 compression, Dart Iron Eagle 180s, and a production LT4 camshaft. Thorley headers, 2 1/2" duals, Edelbrock 3704 intake bored to 2", BBC TBI unit

BMmonteSS

Sorry guys, got confused on the TCC stuff.

Tbi-MAX

yea, for a stock setup with just a cam, thats not bad, its not great either. but its stock...


that is pretty impressive right there, i hope i do as well, but i still have stock exhaust, and 350 TB... ill post the sheet when its all said and done..

boa1277

Wow great thread! Here is what I have maybe you can help. I currently have a 95 Yukon I am running a 383 with a D1SC supercharger, I am seriously considering changing out the TBI to a MPFI system, I am very interested in possibly keeping my current setup if I would be able to tune it correctly myself. I am running a ported TBI with the mods done for a boosted application, I am also running 75lb injectors. My problem is once I get up to about 4300 RPMs the fuel pressure starts jumping around like crazy and the motor signs off. I have it on my Innovate Wide Band so I see a very rich condition. I am wondering if it could be the FMU or the stock FPR..The chip was burned by Ed Wright but it was for the old 383 not this one. The current motor is quite a bit more modified than the old basic TBI crate motor. It was burned for a supercharger but it was the P1SC, I have since modified the unit to the D1SC. I will post the complete internals of this motor if it will help..

JohnBlazeLTZ

Sounds like you need a new tune...are you running the Dynamic FI computer yet? Do you have 2 or 3 bar MAP sensors? What do you have for fuel enrichment under boost? You may want to consider starting your own thread...I would imagine in the supercharger section or at least in the TBI thread....as to not clutter up Max's 383 thread with outside comments about other people's projects. Its just good practice.