L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
05-01-2007, 01:59 PM
#51
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
"Proper tune" and "mail order" cannot occur in the same sentence unless you were to say, " I'm not going to get a mail order chip I'm going to give it a proper tune"
Honestly, do not even waste your money on some crap mail order chip! Spend that money on getting the burning equipment, I havent seen TBIchips site in a while, but I know his prices are way up, they used to be like 15 bucks i think. You say you absolutely don't want the stock tune in there, well then you sure as heck don't want a mail order chip in there. It may be worse. He may add timing and a bunch of fuel at WOT. Now let's say you dont have the proper injectors or fuel pump or fuel pressure right off the bat. Effectively he just bumped up your timing and the fuel didn't change because your injectors went static and you're out of fuel. See what just happened? He gave you all the timing you could want in the chip, but the fuel wasn't there, so now you are still just as lean as you would be with a stock tune, but now you have more timing.
I put a ZZ4 cam in my 305, stock tune it wouldn't back out of the driveway. You are building a 383, what do you think it's going to do? Mail order will be just as bad and you'll be out a couple hundred bucks too. Get the burning equipment. that's my $.02
Honestly, do not even waste your money on some crap mail order chip! Spend that money on getting the burning equipment, I havent seen TBIchips site in a while, but I know his prices are way up, they used to be like 15 bucks i think. You say you absolutely don't want the stock tune in there, well then you sure as heck don't want a mail order chip in there. It may be worse. He may add timing and a bunch of fuel at WOT. Now let's say you dont have the proper injectors or fuel pump or fuel pressure right off the bat. Effectively he just bumped up your timing and the fuel didn't change because your injectors went static and you're out of fuel. See what just happened? He gave you all the timing you could want in the chip, but the fuel wasn't there, so now you are still just as lean as you would be with a stock tune, but now you have more timing.
I put a ZZ4 cam in my 305, stock tune it wouldn't back out of the driveway. You are building a 383, what do you think it's going to do? Mail order will be just as bad and you'll be out a couple hundred bucks too. Get the burning equipment. that's my $.02
05-01-2007, 02:08 PM
#52
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
O.K. well...just because the guy works out of his garage...it doesn't mean he can't build an engine...but...and it may be too late for this but...have you heard of anybody that didn't have a good experience after he has built an engine for them? Do all his cars run? He isn't constantly fixing some car under a tree out in the backyard right? Have you seen him do work before? I don't want to dig for the negative but...what will he do if you get the tune down and the engine blows up later due to poor assembly? I don't want to be Captain Obvious here but...you could blow about 2 Grand in a blink of an eye if he craftsmanship isn't very good.
Yeah...sorry to say...but if you can't wait...you may want to start looking for a credit card too! I mean...at least you can get it on the road...and pay do the balance over a few months. Since time is of the essence then you can't sit around and START learning how to tune now...its kind of too late for that.
Yeah...sorry to say...but if you can't wait...you may want to start looking for a credit card too! I mean...at least you can get it on the road...and pay do the balance over a few months. Since time is of the essence then you can't sit around and START learning how to tune now...its kind of too late for that.
05-01-2007, 02:14 PM
#53
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
"Proper tune" and "mail order" cannot occur in the same sentence unless you were to say, " I'm not going to get a mail order chip I'm going to give it a proper tune"
Honestly, do not even waste your money on some crap mail order chip! Spend that money on getting the burning equipment, I havent seen TBIchips site in a while, but I know his prices are way up, they used to be like 15 bucks i think. You say you absolutely don't want the stock tune in there, well then you sure as heck don't want a mail order chip in there. It may be worse. He may add timing and a bunch of fuel at WOT. Now let's say you dont have the proper injectors or fuel pump or fuel pressure right off the bat. Effectively he just bumped up your timing and the fuel didn't change because your injectors went static and you're out of fuel. See what just happened? He gave you all the timing you could want in the chip, but the fuel wasn't there, so now you are still just as lean as you would be with a stock tune, but now you have more timing.
I put a ZZ4 cam in my 305, stock tune it wouldn't back out of the driveway. You are building a 383, what do you think it's going to do? Mail order will be just as bad and you'll be out a couple hundred bucks too. Get the burning equipment. that's my $.02
Honestly, do not even waste your money on some crap mail order chip! Spend that money on getting the burning equipment, I havent seen TBIchips site in a while, but I know his prices are way up, they used to be like 15 bucks i think. You say you absolutely don't want the stock tune in there, well then you sure as heck don't want a mail order chip in there. It may be worse. He may add timing and a bunch of fuel at WOT. Now let's say you dont have the proper injectors or fuel pump or fuel pressure right off the bat. Effectively he just bumped up your timing and the fuel didn't change because your injectors went static and you're out of fuel. See what just happened? He gave you all the timing you could want in the chip, but the fuel wasn't there, so now you are still just as lean as you would be with a stock tune, but now you have more timing.
I put a ZZ4 cam in my 305, stock tune it wouldn't back out of the driveway. You are building a 383, what do you think it's going to do? Mail order will be just as bad and you'll be out a couple hundred bucks too. Get the burning equipment. that's my $.02
so ordering parts to start my own tune, will be even better than taking it to dyno tune? so I know for a fact mail order is out of the door! I have Tuner PRo RT installed, and I was messing with that a little earlier this week. Is that what I would use to tune this sucker? I understand it a little already, sort of, by reading the help file.
05-01-2007, 02:29 PM
#54
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
O.K. well...just because the guy works out of his garage...it doesn't mean he can't build an engine...but...and it may be too late for this but...have you heard of anybody that didn't have a good experience after he has built an engine for them? Do all his cars run? He isn't constantly fixing some car under a tree out in the backyard right? Have you seen him do work before? I don't want to dig for the negative but...what will he do if you get the tune down and the engine blows up later due to poor assembly? I don't want to be Captain Obvious here but...you could blow about 2 Grand in a blink of an eye if he craftsmanship isn't very good.
Yeah...sorry to say...but if you can't wait...you may want to start looking for a credit card too! I mean...at least you can get it on the road...and pay do the balance over a few months. Since time is of the essence then you can't sit around and START learning how to tune now...its kind of too late for that.
Yeah...sorry to say...but if you can't wait...you may want to start looking for a credit card too! I mean...at least you can get it on the road...and pay do the balance over a few months. Since time is of the essence then you can't sit around and START learning how to tune now...its kind of too late for that.
I know for a fact this year, he has rebuilt a dodge intrepid, volvo diesel, and is gonna do a caillac after me. he loves working on chevys, he said he can build 3 of motors in the time it would take to build a volvo diesel or something!
the engine is being built indoors, in a 2 door garage. no shade tree work... I will ask him about some sort of warranty, or something... You guys got me scared now... but I have faith. He puts his word on the job, every time I ask him something.
05-01-2007, 02:37 PM
#55
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
"Proper tune" and "mail order" cannot occur in the same sentence unless you were to say, " I'm not going to get a mail order chip I'm going to give it a proper tune"
Honestly, do not even waste your money on some crap mail order chip! Spend that money on getting the burning equipment, I havent seen TBIchips site in a while, but I know his prices are way up, they used to be like 15 bucks i think. You say you absolutely don't want the stock tune in there, well then you sure as heck don't want a mail order chip in there. It may be worse. He may add timing and a bunch of fuel at WOT. Now let's say you dont have the proper injectors or fuel pump or fuel pressure right off the bat. Effectively he just bumped up your timing and the fuel didn't change because your injectors went static and you're out of fuel. See what just happened? He gave you all the timing you could want in the chip, but the fuel wasn't there, so now you are still just as lean as you would be with a stock tune, but now you have more timing.
I put a ZZ4 cam in my 305, stock tune it wouldn't back out of the driveway. You are building a 383, what do you think it's going to do? Mail order will be just as bad and you'll be out a couple hundred bucks too. Get the burning equipment. that's my $.02
Honestly, do not even waste your money on some crap mail order chip! Spend that money on getting the burning equipment, I havent seen TBIchips site in a while, but I know his prices are way up, they used to be like 15 bucks i think. You say you absolutely don't want the stock tune in there, well then you sure as heck don't want a mail order chip in there. It may be worse. He may add timing and a bunch of fuel at WOT. Now let's say you dont have the proper injectors or fuel pump or fuel pressure right off the bat. Effectively he just bumped up your timing and the fuel didn't change because your injectors went static and you're out of fuel. See what just happened? He gave you all the timing you could want in the chip, but the fuel wasn't there, so now you are still just as lean as you would be with a stock tune, but now you have more timing.
I put a ZZ4 cam in my 305, stock tune it wouldn't back out of the driveway. You are building a 383, what do you think it's going to do? Mail order will be just as bad and you'll be out a couple hundred bucks too. Get the burning equipment. that's my $.02
I also said TBI Chips may not be the best guy to go to for a 383 TBI. I suggested going to PCM for Less first. This company does after all have a business around tuning. Sure... its not the most ideal way but there is a chance (...as slight as it may be...even though its not the best solution...) that someone there could help get it going for him to at least drive it.
I was only making the suggestion to get him going...not to push the idea as it being the best solution...because it is clearly not. I hope you realize that my intention is to just enlighten him in the fact that he doesn't have to be a tuner to get it drive able. It may be blown money but at least the vehicle would function and not just sit in the driveway with a new engine and not being driven. What would ultimately suck more? Wasting money on an engine and not driving it or getting a mail order chip from a fairly reliable company like PCM for Less and at least be able to drive it long enough for him to at least start learning how to tune. PCM for Less is widely used in the LT1 market and a call to them may actually be the deciding factor as to if they can really help or not.
Last edited by JohnBlazeLTZ; 05-01-2007 at 02:47 PM.
05-01-2007, 02:54 PM
#56
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
Yeah...I know but...there are tuner companies that are better than TBI Chips out there. He has after all already pulled it from the engine bay and its a little late to start practice tuning it. He's in a bit of a pinch. He doesn't have alot of time to learn tuning and as BM Monte said...he could end up chucking parts out of the side of the block if he's not good at tuning.
I also said TBI Chips may not be the best guy to go to for a 383 TBI. I suggested going to PCM for Less first. This company does after all have a business around tuning. Sure... its not the most ideal way but there is a chance (...as slight as it may be...even though its not the best solution...) that someone there could help get it going for him to at least drive it.
I was only making the suggestion to get him going...not to push the idea as it being the best solution...because it is clearly not. I hope you realize that my intention is to just enlighten him in the fact that he doesn't have to be a tuner to get it drive able. It may be blown money but at least the vehicle would function and not just sit in the driveway with a new engine and not being driven. What would ultimately suck more? Wasting money on an engine and not driving it or getting a mail order chip from a fairly reliable company like PCM for Less and at least be able to drive it long enough for him to at least start learning how to tune. PCM for Less is widely used in the LT1 market and a call to them may actually be the deciding factor as to if they can really help or not.
I also said TBI Chips may not be the best guy to go to for a 383 TBI. I suggested going to PCM for Less first. This company does after all have a business around tuning. Sure... its not the most ideal way but there is a chance (...as slight as it may be...even though its not the best solution...) that someone there could help get it going for him to at least drive it.
I was only making the suggestion to get him going...not to push the idea as it being the best solution...because it is clearly not. I hope you realize that my intention is to just enlighten him in the fact that he doesn't have to be a tuner to get it drive able. It may be blown money but at least the vehicle would function and not just sit in the driveway with a new engine and not being driven. What would ultimately suck more? Wasting money on an engine and not driving it or getting a mail order chip from a fairly reliable company like PCM for Less and at least be able to drive it long enough for him to at least start learning how to tune. PCM for Less is widely used in the LT1 market and a call to them may actually be the deciding factor as to if they can really help or not.
I also think those companies are way overpriced and with that money he should buy the $80 burner from Moates.net, an aldl cable, laptop and an EBL. That is going to be his best bet. Make calculations on estimated power level and fuel needs and make sure the injectors/pressure/pump can support it. Set the timing conservative in the bin set the BPC correctly and he'll have a better start than any mail order chip, I think.
Tbimax, you mentioned a dyno tune, that would work well if they have a WB O2 sensor equipped which I'm sure they do. BUT, make sure you have the right injectors/pressure before you go in. With your stock stuff you coudl probably limp it around but do not go WOT with it because you will run lean. I'm sure the fuel pump in your car is like the thirdgen pumps, so its barely adequate for the 305. That is a necessity. This is all my opinion, straighten it out mechanically so it's possible to supply enough fuel, buy the burning stuff to set the constants and a basic timing curve before you even start the motor.
05-01-2007, 03:00 PM
#57
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
O.K. so the guy can most likely put it together right...that is a good thing.
Look man...you did get in over your head a bit...seriously...but I commend you on your attempt so far. I mean...there are companies like Jasper that offer a 383 for trucks too.
http://www.jasperengines.com/pdf/Cla...-325%20TBI.pdf
How did they tune it? There has got to be a tune out there that can get you where their engine is? Right? Somebody out there in the world can help you. You just have to get it going man.
This doesn't mean you have to be scared...I would say worry about the unknown and be cautious. Don't go into it thinking it is going to be a piece of cake...but don't think it can't be done either. But don't let it stop you from going to find the resources needed to complete your build up. As I told you from the beginning...tuning was going to the most important thing with this build up.
One of the articles I first posted for you...the guy was in California. try emailing for some advice. If he got a TBI 383 to pass smog in CA...then whos to say you can't get it going in your Burb?
Look man...you did get in over your head a bit...seriously...but I commend you on your attempt so far. I mean...there are companies like Jasper that offer a 383 for trucks too.
http://www.jasperengines.com/pdf/Cla...-325%20TBI.pdf
How did they tune it? There has got to be a tune out there that can get you where their engine is? Right? Somebody out there in the world can help you. You just have to get it going man.
This doesn't mean you have to be scared...I would say worry about the unknown and be cautious. Don't go into it thinking it is going to be a piece of cake...but don't think it can't be done either. But don't let it stop you from going to find the resources needed to complete your build up. As I told you from the beginning...tuning was going to the most important thing with this build up.
One of the articles I first posted for you...the guy was in California. try emailing for some advice. If he got a TBI 383 to pass smog in CA...then whos to say you can't get it going in your Burb?
05-01-2007, 03:08 PM
#58
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
Don't get me wrong, I know what you mean and I know you're just trying to help him get it going, as am I. Don't take anything I say the wrong way, just trying to help him get it going too. I would hate to see 1000 bucks go down the drain.
I also think those companies are way overpriced and with that money he should buy the $80 burner from Moates.net, an aldl cable, laptop and an EBL. That is going to be his best bet. Make calculations on estimated power level and fuel needs and make sure the injectors/pressure/pump can support it. Set the timing conservative in the bin set the BPC correctly and he'll have a better start than any mail order chip, I think.
Tbimax, you mentioned a dyno tune, that would work well if they have a WB O2 sensor equipped which I'm sure they do. BUT, make sure you have the right injectors/pressure before you go in. With your stock stuff you coudl probably limp it around but do not go WOT with it because you will run lean. I'm sure the fuel pump in your car is like the thirdgen pumps, so its barely adequate for the 305. That is a necessity. This is all my opinion, straighten it out mechanically so it's possible to supply enough fuel, buy the burning stuff to set the constants and a basic timing curve before you even start the motor.
I also think those companies are way overpriced and with that money he should buy the $80 burner from Moates.net, an aldl cable, laptop and an EBL. That is going to be his best bet. Make calculations on estimated power level and fuel needs and make sure the injectors/pressure/pump can support it. Set the timing conservative in the bin set the BPC correctly and he'll have a better start than any mail order chip, I think.
Tbimax, you mentioned a dyno tune, that would work well if they have a WB O2 sensor equipped which I'm sure they do. BUT, make sure you have the right injectors/pressure before you go in. With your stock stuff you coudl probably limp it around but do not go WOT with it because you will run lean. I'm sure the fuel pump in your car is like the thirdgen pumps, so its barely adequate for the 305. That is a necessity. This is all my opinion, straighten it out mechanically so it's possible to supply enough fuel, buy the burning stuff to set the constants and a basic timing curve before you even start the motor.
No Harm No Foul.
Last edited by JohnBlazeLTZ; 05-01-2007 at 03:09 PM. Reason: spelling/keyboarding is not one of my strong points
05-01-2007, 05:26 PM
#59
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
It's hard to just tell some one why a mail order tune is junk unless you have actually tuned a few vehicles and understand the sheer volume of changes that have to be made. The other problem is that we are dealing with the first generation of fuel injected vehicles ever produced. The systems are in a lot of ways a bit archaic when compared to the newer LS1 type systems out there. What this means is that the ECM is not as adaptive and requires a tune that is that much closer in order for the vehicle to run well.
You have to understand that TBI is a speed density system, it looks up engine vaccume and rpm and then pulls up a value of fuel to inject based off these readings and then modifies this value a dozen times based on engine temp, baro pressure, throttle position, and a few other items. What happens when you mod a speed density system is that the vaccume readings no longer correlate to the correct ammount of fuel.
What I'm getting to is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to guess what these new values are going to be. Even the smallest difference in an engine can alter the fuel curves by a large amount and don't even get me started on transient situations like pump shot and warming the engine up. I don't care how good you think you are it can't be done. It takes 100's of itterations to really get a tune right. Untill you've experiences a good tune you don't know what your missing.
Tell you what to do, read through the "come in for a free tune" sticky at the top of the forum. If you can follow along and think you can make these basic changes then go head and order the tuning equipment, you'll be able to do a better tune than any mail order company.
You have to understand that TBI is a speed density system, it looks up engine vaccume and rpm and then pulls up a value of fuel to inject based off these readings and then modifies this value a dozen times based on engine temp, baro pressure, throttle position, and a few other items. What happens when you mod a speed density system is that the vaccume readings no longer correlate to the correct ammount of fuel.
What I'm getting to is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to guess what these new values are going to be. Even the smallest difference in an engine can alter the fuel curves by a large amount and don't even get me started on transient situations like pump shot and warming the engine up. I don't care how good you think you are it can't be done. It takes 100's of itterations to really get a tune right. Untill you've experiences a good tune you don't know what your missing.
Tell you what to do, read through the "come in for a free tune" sticky at the top of the forum. If you can follow along and think you can make these basic changes then go head and order the tuning equipment, you'll be able to do a better tune than any mail order company.
05-01-2007, 07:55 PM
#60
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
It's hard to just tell some one why a mail order tune is junk unless you have actually tuned a few vehicles and understand the sheer volume of changes that have to be made. The other problem is that we are dealing with the first generation of fuel injected vehicles ever produced. The systems are in a lot of ways a bit archaic when compared to the newer LS1 type systems out there. What this means is that the ECM is not as adaptive and requires a tune that is that much closer in order for the vehicle to run well.
You have to understand that TBI is a speed density system, it looks up engine vaccume and rpm and then pulls up a value of fuel to inject based off these readings and then modifies this value a dozen times based on engine temp, baro pressure, throttle position, and a few other items. What happens when you mod a speed density system is that the vaccume readings no longer correlate to the correct ammount of fuel.
What I'm getting to is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to guess what these new values are going to be. Even the smallest difference in an engine can alter the fuel curves by a large amount and don't even get me started on transient situations like pump shot and warming the engine up. I don't care how good you think you are it can't be done. It takes 100's of itterations to really get a tune right. Untill you've experiences a good tune you don't know what your missing.
Tell you what to do, read through the "come in for a free tune" sticky at the top of the forum. If you can follow along and think you can make these basic changes then go head and order the tuning equipment, you'll be able to do a better tune than any mail order company.
You have to understand that TBI is a speed density system, it looks up engine vaccume and rpm and then pulls up a value of fuel to inject based off these readings and then modifies this value a dozen times based on engine temp, baro pressure, throttle position, and a few other items. What happens when you mod a speed density system is that the vaccume readings no longer correlate to the correct ammount of fuel.
What I'm getting to is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to guess what these new values are going to be. Even the smallest difference in an engine can alter the fuel curves by a large amount and don't even get me started on transient situations like pump shot and warming the engine up. I don't care how good you think you are it can't be done. It takes 100's of itterations to really get a tune right. Untill you've experiences a good tune you don't know what your missing.
Tell you what to do, read through the "come in for a free tune" sticky at the top of the forum. If you can follow along and think you can make these basic changes then go head and order the tuning equipment, you'll be able to do a better tune than any mail order company.
Basically, what it comes down to is if you want your new engine to run very well you either learn to tune the TBI or you slap on a carb.
05-02-2007, 01:19 PM
#61
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
I agree also. I just thought he could get something to at least get it running and I don't want to see the guy blow up an engine he just put together. I also thought it was his daily driver and he can't having it sitting for very long. I agree with tuning it...but there hasn't been many super successful 383 TBI's and I am hoping he is gonna be able to get it going. He's gonna need some help with it... that's for sure.
05-02-2007, 10:21 PM
#62
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
Tbimax, you mentioned a dyno tune, that would work well if they have a WB O2 sensor equipped which I'm sure they do. BUT, make sure you have the right injectors/pressure before you go in. With your stock stuff you coudl probably limp it around but do not go WOT with it because you will run lean. I'm sure the fuel pump in your car is like the thirdgen pumps, so its barely adequate for the 305. That is a necessity. This is all my opinion, straighten it out mechanically so it's possible to supply enough fuel, buy the burning stuff to set the constants and a basic timing curve before you even start the motor.
thats just 1, but its several in my backyard. like I said, I live in speedway country, nascar land. someone has to be able to tune this sucker correctly, to get me going. I can then get my tuning stuff, and just tweak upon their tune, & add stuff as I mod more..
----------
O.K. so the guy can most likely put it together right...that is a good thing.
Look man...you did get in over your head a bit...seriously...but I commend you on your attempt so far. I mean...there are companies like Jasper that offer a 383 for trucks too.
http://www.jasperengines.com/pdf/Cla...-325%20TBI.pdf
How did they tune it? There has got to be a tune out there that can get you where their engine is? Right? Somebody out there in the world can help you. You just have to get it going man.
This doesn't mean you have to be scared...I would say worry about the unknown and be cautious. Don't go into it thinking it is going to be a piece of cake...but don't think it can't be done either. But don't let it stop you from going to find the resources needed to complete your build up. As I told you from the beginning...tuning was going to the most important thing with this build up.
One of the articles I first posted for you...the guy was in California. try emailing for some advice. If he got a TBI 383 to pass smog in CA...then whos to say you can't get it going in your Burb?
Look man...you did get in over your head a bit...seriously...but I commend you on your attempt so far. I mean...there are companies like Jasper that offer a 383 for trucks too.
http://www.jasperengines.com/pdf/Cla...-325%20TBI.pdf
How did they tune it? There has got to be a tune out there that can get you where their engine is? Right? Somebody out there in the world can help you. You just have to get it going man.
This doesn't mean you have to be scared...I would say worry about the unknown and be cautious. Don't go into it thinking it is going to be a piece of cake...but don't think it can't be done either. But don't let it stop you from going to find the resources needed to complete your build up. As I told you from the beginning...tuning was going to the most important thing with this build up.
One of the articles I first posted for you...the guy was in California. try emailing for some advice. If he got a TBI 383 to pass smog in CA...then whos to say you can't get it going in your Burb?
yea, I hadnt given up just yet. Im searching alot of places, I can get a dyno tune locally. But I still have to make more calls & prices. I did wonder how Jasper tuned theirs, it said to call them. So I will call them tomorrow too..
Last edited by Tbi-MAX; 05-02-2007 at 10:32 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
05-02-2007, 10:28 PM
#63
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
I absolutely agree, and this is what I was getting at. Buy the equipment and have the desire to learn to tune it and you'll be fine. That is what this forum is for! Many guys on here are willing to help you out once you dive in, you're going to be over your head with this 383 but it won't be too bad. That free tune thread is a great one and can help you out a ton. I'm sure if it comes down to it, you can start posting your datalogs and as long as you have a burner, we can alter your bin and send it back to you so you can burn it. That's all a mail order guy is going to do anyways.
Basically, what it comes down to is if you want your new engine to run very well you either learn to tune the TBI or you slap on a carb.
Basically, what it comes down to is if you want your new engine to run very well you either learn to tune the TBI or you slap on a carb.
I am getting the burning stuff, but I have to get something to go A to B also... But I will post my datalogs and all the good stuff! I totally agree, thats why I love this forum! I plan on learning so much more. I really want to tweak the TBI, for a succesfful TBI 383!
----------
I agree also. I just thought he could get something to at least get it running and I don't want to see the guy blow up an engine he just put together. I also thought it was his daily driver and he can't having it sitting for very long. I agree with tuning it...but there hasn't been many super successful 383 TBI's and I am hoping he is gonna be able to get it going. He's gonna need some help with it... that's for sure.
Ps, all my parts are in!
Last edited by Tbi-MAX; 05-02-2007 at 10:30 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
05-02-2007, 11:19 PM
#64
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
I can sit down and do every thing to your stock calibration that Brian at TBICHips.com will do for you in about 5 minutes. Basically your 383 will run pretty good simply by setting the Injector flow constant and Engine displacement terms. Just keep out of the throttle until it is tuned better.
05-03-2007, 08:29 AM
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
I can sit down and do every thing to your stock calibration that Brian at TBICHips.com will do for you in about 5 minutes. Basically your 383 will run pretty good simply by setting the Injector flow constant and Engine displacement terms. Just keep out of the throttle until it is tuned better.
Hey Fast...have you ever considerd a 383??? Just curious.
JB
05-03-2007, 09:38 AM
#66
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
I can sit down and do every thing to your stock calibration that Brian at TBICHips.com will do for you in about 5 minutes. Basically your 383 will run pretty good simply by setting the Injector flow constant and Engine displacement terms. Just keep out of the throttle until it is tuned better.
What do you guys think of PCMforless?
hey guys, I did say Im in speedway town... but I did not know PCmforless is in my backyard. and possibly with a dyno also. Not even 15 miles from me. But he tunes TBI 95 and under. Im going to give them a call to today.
Last edited by Tbi-MAX; 05-03-2007 at 09:50 AM.
05-03-2007, 10:46 AM
#67
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
Wow...you got lucky man.
I think PCM For Less is really good. They do almost all of the Imp SS crowd and a lot of LT1r's for the most part. They do mail order for them a lot of the time. If your right there then take it to them...because I had a feeling that this was your daily driver and your gonna need to get it going. You can still experiment with tuning later...and then upload the original tune again in case you don't like what you did...so no harm no foul. You should probably call them up and ask for some questions about a 383 TBI and see what they say. They may have done 1 or 2 already...you never know till you ask.
JB
I think PCM For Less is really good. They do almost all of the Imp SS crowd and a lot of LT1r's for the most part. They do mail order for them a lot of the time. If your right there then take it to them...because I had a feeling that this was your daily driver and your gonna need to get it going. You can still experiment with tuning later...and then upload the original tune again in case you don't like what you did...so no harm no foul. You should probably call them up and ask for some questions about a 383 TBI and see what they say. They may have done 1 or 2 already...you never know till you ask.
JB
05-03-2007, 10:51 AM
#68
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
Wow...you got lucky man.
I think PCM For Less is really good. They do almost all of the Imp SS crowd and a lot of LT1r's for the most part. They do mail order for them a lot of the time. If your right there then take it to them...because I had a feeling that this was your daily driver and your gonna need to get it going. You can still experiment with tuning later...and then upload the original tune again in case you don't like what you did...so no harm no foul. You should probably call them up and ask for some questions about a 383 TBI and see what they say. They may have done 1 or 2 already...you never know till you ask.
JB
I think PCM For Less is really good. They do almost all of the Imp SS crowd and a lot of LT1r's for the most part. They do mail order for them a lot of the time. If your right there then take it to them...because I had a feeling that this was your daily driver and your gonna need to get it going. You can still experiment with tuning later...and then upload the original tune again in case you don't like what you did...so no harm no foul. You should probably call them up and ask for some questions about a 383 TBI and see what they say. They may have done 1 or 2 already...you never know till you ask.
JB
I will keep everyone posted as things go, so far all my parts I ordered are in. Im going to see my guy about the engine block, should be finished yesterday.
05-03-2007, 04:36 PM
#70
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
thanks bro.
so yea, I stooped by his house today, had some nice vehicles outside... anyhow, he is going to hook me up for a good price, with the dyno tuning and a new brain with ecm. The dyno location is actually closer to where I live, so its real convenient. He can squeeze me in next week, in time for when the engine is finished. Ill post the numbers and stuff, and keep you guys posted....
hopefully a 1st good documented "tbi" 383 stroker on this forum....
i understand I still need long tubes, duals, injectors, fpr, pump... I should be deep into tuning by that time. thanks for the help.
so yea, I stooped by his house today, had some nice vehicles outside...
anyhow, he is going to hook me up for a good price, with the dyno tuning and a new brain with ecm. The dyno location is actually closer to where I live, so its real convenient. He can squeeze me in next week, in time for when the engine is finished. Ill post the numbers and stuff, and keep you guys posted.... hopefully a 1st good documented "tbi" 383 stroker on this forum....
i understand I still need long tubes, duals, injectors, fpr, pump... I should be deep into tuning by that time. thanks for the help.
05-03-2007, 04:38 PM
#71
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
WHEWWWW...that was close!!! How much will he charge...if you don't mind me asking?
05-03-2007, 04:43 PM
#72
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
this is 1 of their dynos for a tbi truck with cam swap: http://www.pcmforless.com/images/dynosheets/89Gmc.jpg
had to edit out the price, cause i dont want him to loose biz, and such. but its a great price none the less for the dyno time and live tune.
Last edited by Tbi-MAX; 05-03-2007 at 06:05 PM.
05-03-2007, 04:59 PM
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
Your gonna catch some flack from the others about that amount of money rather than tuning it yourself but...at least you can get it running. I think that is the most important thing.
I am just looking forward to hearing how it sounds.
You know you can't really give 'er until at least 3-5000 miles have passed right? When I got my engine replaced in my Caprice (bad head gasket fixed under extended warranty) it was tight for like 2 years. I mean...it didn't seem like it was ever going to be able to be mashed on.
To make sure the rings seat properly (...not right way...) at least I don't think...you gonna want to put it in 2nd gear...run it up to like 45-50mph...then let off the gas and let the trans. brake/slow it down...Don't hit the brakes. Do this a couple of times. It lets the rings expand and get a nice seat against the cylinder walls. You should be all gravy after 6K for sure. Drive it nice. Fight the urge to test it out to early...you want to make sure the oil gets in every where. You may want to change the oil yourself...and put a small magnet on the drain plug...to see if you are catching any metal fragments. Its just a good way to check for possible internal problems in the early stages.
Dude...one more thing. You have a flat tappet cam...proper break in is huge!!! Use Rotella from Farm and Fleet. It has the necessary additives for flat tappet cams. I just read that in a recent car mag some place. I am not kidding you. Rotella...do some quick research or call a cam company and ask about proper flat tappet cam break in. A lot of current common oils no longer carry the additives that benefit flat tappet cams. Beware.
JB
I am just looking forward to hearing how it sounds.
You know you can't really give 'er until at least 3-5000 miles have passed right? When I got my engine replaced in my Caprice (bad head gasket fixed under extended warranty) it was tight for like 2 years. I mean...it didn't seem like it was ever going to be able to be mashed on.
To make sure the rings seat properly (...not right way...) at least I don't think...you gonna want to put it in 2nd gear...run it up to like 45-50mph...then let off the gas and let the trans. brake/slow it down...Don't hit the brakes. Do this a couple of times. It lets the rings expand and get a nice seat against the cylinder walls. You should be all gravy after 6K for sure. Drive it nice. Fight the urge to test it out to early...you want to make sure the oil gets in every where. You may want to change the oil yourself...and put a small magnet on the drain plug...to see if you are catching any metal fragments. Its just a good way to check for possible internal problems in the early stages.
Dude...one more thing. You have a flat tappet cam...proper break in is huge!!! Use Rotella from Farm and Fleet. It has the necessary additives for flat tappet cams. I just read that in a recent car mag some place. I am not kidding you. Rotella...do some quick research or call a cam company and ask about proper flat tappet cam break in. A lot of current common oils no longer carry the additives that benefit flat tappet cams. Beware.
JB
05-03-2007, 06:20 PM
#74
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
Your gonna catch some flack from the others about that amount of money rather than tuning it yourself but...at least you can get it running. I think that is the most important thing.
I am just looking forward to hearing how it sounds.
You know you can't really give 'er until at least 3-5000 miles have passed right? When I got my engine replaced in my Caprice (bad head gasket fixed under extended warranty) it was tight for like 2 years. I mean...it didn't seem like it was ever going to be able to be mashed on.
To make sure the rings seat properly (...not right way...) at least I don't think...you gonna want to put it in 2nd gear...run it up to like 45-50mph...then let off the gas and let the trans. brake/slow it down...Don't hit the brakes. Do this a couple of times. It lets the rings expand and get a nice seat against the cylinder walls. You should be all gravy after 6K for sure. Drive it nice. Fight the urge to test it out to early...you want to make sure the oil gets in every where. You may want to change the oil yourself...and put a small magnet on the drain plug...to see if you are catching any metal fragments. Its just a good way to check for possible internal problems in the early stages.
Dude...one more thing. You have a flat tappet cam...proper break in is huge!!! Use Rotella from Farm and Fleet. It has the necessary additives for flat tappet cams. I just read that in a recent car mag some place. I am not kidding you. Rotella...do some quick research or call a cam company and ask about proper flat tappet cam break in. A lot of current common oils no longer carry the additives that benefit flat tappet cams. Beware.
JB
I am just looking forward to hearing how it sounds.
You know you can't really give 'er until at least 3-5000 miles have passed right? When I got my engine replaced in my Caprice (bad head gasket fixed under extended warranty) it was tight for like 2 years. I mean...it didn't seem like it was ever going to be able to be mashed on.
To make sure the rings seat properly (...not right way...) at least I don't think...you gonna want to put it in 2nd gear...run it up to like 45-50mph...then let off the gas and let the trans. brake/slow it down...Don't hit the brakes. Do this a couple of times. It lets the rings expand and get a nice seat against the cylinder walls. You should be all gravy after 6K for sure. Drive it nice. Fight the urge to test it out to early...you want to make sure the oil gets in every where. You may want to change the oil yourself...and put a small magnet on the drain plug...to see if you are catching any metal fragments. Its just a good way to check for possible internal problems in the early stages.
Dude...one more thing. You have a flat tappet cam...proper break in is huge!!! Use Rotella from Farm and Fleet. It has the necessary additives for flat tappet cams. I just read that in a recent car mag some place. I am not kidding you. Rotella...do some quick research or call a cam company and ask about proper flat tappet cam break in. A lot of current common oils no longer carry the additives that benefit flat tappet cams. Beware.
JB
I will take your advice on the break in, I will also make it my duty, to give this thing a oil change every 3000 miles, or earlier...
I love changing my own oil. I know about Rotella, as a matter, I was wanting to start using their 15w-40 on a regular basis. Is this a good idea? or do I need to use synthetic after the 1st oil change? I will tell my mechanic to use this stuff on the break-in! If he doesn't already has some.
05-04-2007, 04:50 PM
#75
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
why is it so hard to find a good fuel pressure regulator for the TBI on summit? also what type of high flow fuel pump do I need? I would like to get everything through summit.
here are some pics:
here are some pics:
Last edited by Tbi-MAX; 05-04-2007 at 06:54 PM.
05-04-2007, 07:47 PM
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
What exactly are you getting for your money? You mention a new "brain" then a new ECM??? No way you are getting a new ECM, tuned chip, and dyno time for less than 500 or 600$.
05-04-2007, 11:07 PM
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
If you want to adjust your fuel pressure, you can mod the regulator to be adjustable yourself with some basic tools, or you can do a setup like this one on fullsizechevy - http://fullsizechevy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117719
Or do the 454 fuel pressure regulator, that will give you ~30psi. Why not have a look over at Fast355's sticky that's titled "Budget TBI buildup", it will answer a few of your questions instead of having to ask them here.
Just stick with 10W30 unless your bearing clearances are too big. A new engine built properly doesn't need anything thicker than 10W30 for normal street use. A high volume oil pump was overkill for a street driven ~300hp engine IMO. Don't bother switching to synthetic for a while. You'll be changing oil after the cam break-in, then at 100 miles, 500, and 1000. Running synthetic too soon prevents the rings from seating properly, so I'd wait a good 5-6000 miles before switching. Personally, I drive too many gravel roads to bother with synthetic. Dirty oil is dirty oil, regardless.
Off topic, you said your engine grenaded because of a clogged fram filter filled with metal shavings? Seems pretty odd to me. More likely something went awry with your first cam swap (considering that it blew up within a very short time after the cam swap), and all the little metal shavings from whatever got trapped in the filter.
Or do the 454 fuel pressure regulator, that will give you ~30psi. Why not have a look over at Fast355's sticky that's titled "Budget TBI buildup", it will answer a few of your questions instead of having to ask them here.
Just stick with 10W30 unless your bearing clearances are too big. A new engine built properly doesn't need anything thicker than 10W30 for normal street use. A high volume oil pump was overkill for a street driven ~300hp engine IMO. Don't bother switching to synthetic for a while. You'll be changing oil after the cam break-in, then at 100 miles, 500, and 1000. Running synthetic too soon prevents the rings from seating properly, so I'd wait a good 5-6000 miles before switching. Personally, I drive too many gravel roads to bother with synthetic. Dirty oil is dirty oil, regardless.
Off topic, you said your engine grenaded because of a clogged fram filter filled with metal shavings? Seems pretty odd to me. More likely something went awry with your first cam swap (considering that it blew up within a very short time after the cam swap), and all the little metal shavings from whatever got trapped in the filter.
Last edited by Fracture; 05-05-2007 at 12:15 AM.
05-05-2007, 10:41 AM
#78
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
If you want to adjust your fuel pressure, you can mod the regulator to be adjustable yourself with some basic tools, or you can do a setup like this one on fullsizechevy - http://fullsizechevy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117719
Or do the 454 fuel pressure regulator, that will give you ~30psi. Why not have a look over at Fast355's sticky that's titled "Budget TBI buildup", it will answer a few of your questions instead of having to ask them here.
Just stick with 10W30 unless your bearing clearances are too big. A new engine built properly doesn't need anything thicker than 10W30 for normal street use. A high volume oil pump was overkill for a street driven ~300hp engine IMO. Don't bother switching to synthetic for a while. You'll be changing oil after the cam break-in, then at 100 miles, 500, and 1000. Running synthetic too soon prevents the rings from seating properly, so I'd wait a good 5-6000 miles before switching. Personally, I drive too many gravel roads to bother with synthetic. Dirty oil is dirty oil, regardless.
Off topic, you said your engine grenaded because of a clogged fram filter filled with metal shavings? Seems pretty odd to me. More likely something went awry with your first cam swap (considering that it blew up within a very short time after the cam swap), and all the little metal shavings from whatever got trapped in the filter.
Or do the 454 fuel pressure regulator, that will give you ~30psi. Why not have a look over at Fast355's sticky that's titled "Budget TBI buildup", it will answer a few of your questions instead of having to ask them here.
Just stick with 10W30 unless your bearing clearances are too big. A new engine built properly doesn't need anything thicker than 10W30 for normal street use. A high volume oil pump was overkill for a street driven ~300hp engine IMO. Don't bother switching to synthetic for a while. You'll be changing oil after the cam break-in, then at 100 miles, 500, and 1000. Running synthetic too soon prevents the rings from seating properly, so I'd wait a good 5-6000 miles before switching. Personally, I drive too many gravel roads to bother with synthetic. Dirty oil is dirty oil, regardless.
Off topic, you said your engine grenaded because of a clogged fram filter filled with metal shavings? Seems pretty odd to me. More likely something went awry with your first cam swap (considering that it blew up within a very short time after the cam swap), and all the little metal shavings from whatever got trapped in the filter.
so you say, just a 454 regulator will work?
I have been follow Fast355 build up thread also, I have learned alot from that.
Ok, i believe that concept dirty, is dirty. I guess I will stick with the 5w30, no synthetic for a while. So I will change oil, about 4 times with-in the 1st 3000 miles?
yea, I had my truck at this crappy shop, that has a reputation coming to find out! which isn't too good, i blame them for it also... they ran my engine with NO oil, with the valve covers off! till it ran out, while they where trying to set my timing, then couldn't figure out why the hell the engine was running ruff, called a "engine head specialist" to figure out my engine had NO OIL! so yea, thats when my 200k oil pump took a dump, from that beating..... it worked fine after it oiled up, but something affected it!
my bearing clearances are 0 "stock" so it should be tight!
----------
check your PM!
Last edited by Tbi-MAX; 05-05-2007 at 10:43 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
05-10-2007, 06:53 PM
#79
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
ok, just posting updates.... my block is at a 2nd machine shop.. the 1st is too backed up, even tho my black say there for a week and a half... should get my block back sat.. then the build starts...
so far, im about to modify my stock regulator to make it adjustable.. then set it with a guage, after i get my walbro 255
so far, im about to modify my stock regulator to make it adjustable.. then set it with a guage, after i get my walbro 255
05-10-2007, 07:56 PM
#80
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
WHat injectors do you plan to run? If stock, you will need one from xtremefi on ebay. (8-40psi) or an Aeromotive setup (I think). If running 90's, you won't.
Mike
Mike
05-10-2007, 08:14 PM
#81
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
i had plan on using the stock injectors thats on my 350 TB... I believe those are 55lb? I thought I could use these, with alot higher psi, say 30-40psi? I heard its all about tunning? or would I still need biggeR?
05-11-2007, 11:54 AM
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
What he's saying is that the stock regulator won't make it much past 15 or 16 psi. Top down solutions sells a slightly stiffer spring that will get you close to 20 psi, and you have to get a vacume referenced regulator (also sold by TDS) if you want to go higher. You just leave the vacume referenced port un-hooked and use the stiffer spring. Some members have had luck finding stiffer springs laying around the garage.
The ultimate setup is to bypass the stock regulator and go with an external one designed for the higher pressures.
The ultimate setup is to bypass the stock regulator and go with an external one designed for the higher pressures.
05-11-2007, 04:42 PM
#83
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
What he's saying is that the stock regulator won't make it much past 15 or 16 psi. Top down solutions sells a slightly stiffer spring that will get you close to 20 psi, and you have to get a vacume referenced regulator (also sold by TDS) if you want to go higher. You just leave the vacume referenced port un-hooked and use the stiffer spring. Some members have had luck finding stiffer springs laying around the garage.
The ultimate setup is to bypass the stock regulator and go with an external one designed for the higher pressures.
The ultimate setup is to bypass the stock regulator and go with an external one designed for the higher pressures.
05-11-2007, 07:53 PM
#84
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
Here's a guy that put one on his truck. Good thread
http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forums/...ght=aeromotive
http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forums/...ght=aeromotive
Last edited by 91chevz71; 05-11-2007 at 07:58 PM.
05-12-2007, 12:03 PM
#85
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
91chev great thread you posted. Im seriously thinking about getting that regulator, with a gauge.. put I don't know what fittings I need. I would like to get it from summit, since they have the regulator too.
05-15-2007, 03:39 PM
#86
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
how would these heads work with my build?
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...t=WRL-043650-1
I need quick answers, please....
will it work with my current intake and exhaust manifold for now?
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...t=WRL-043650-1
I need quick answers, please....
will it work with my current intake and exhaust manifold for now?
05-15-2007, 04:30 PM
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
They'll bolt right up.....but at around 800$ for the pair (they are sold in singles) vortec heads along with an intake will blow them out of the water for the same amount of money.
Those heads are basically stock replacement, they'll make as much power as the fabled "double hump" heads but in todays aftermarket thats not that great.
I believe you can pickup a set of dart platinum heads for about the same price, which would work with your stock intake bolt pattern.
Those heads are basically stock replacement, they'll make as much power as the fabled "double hump" heads but in todays aftermarket thats not that great.
I believe you can pickup a set of dart platinum heads for about the same price, which would work with your stock intake bolt pattern.
05-15-2007, 04:47 PM
#88
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
They'll bolt right up.....but at around 800$ for the pair (they are sold in singles) vortec heads along with an intake will blow them out of the water for the same amount of money.
Those heads are basically stock replacement, they'll make as much power as the fabled "double hump" heads but in todays aftermarket thats not that great.
I believe you can pickup a set of dart platinum heads for about the same price, which would work with your stock intake bolt pattern.
Those heads are basically stock replacement, they'll make as much power as the fabled "double hump" heads but in todays aftermarket thats not that great.
I believe you can pickup a set of dart platinum heads for about the same price, which would work with your stock intake bolt pattern.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
how would those match a vortec...
05-15-2007, 08:24 PM
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
No, those aren't any better, they're huge too. 72cc chambers 230cc runners. Do some research. Look around and read what people say about good heads, don't just go to summit and pick out a set.
05-16-2007, 11:38 AM
#90
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
what are some good size heads for a daily driver 383?
time for more searching then..
05-16-2007, 01:28 PM
#91
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
Head selection 101:
First lets get the different size nomenclature sorted out so you know what we are talking about when we say "too big"
Chamber size: This is the combustion champer, bigger = less compression
Compression
Here's some general stock sizes
305=58cc
350= 64,72,74cc
400=72,74cc
To properly calculate your compression you need to take into account your bore, stroke, head gasket thickness, head cc and cc of either dome or dish in the piston.
Intake runner size: This is the size of the intake runner in cc.
Stock = ~160cc
vortec = 165-170cc
most street aftermarket heads = ~180
serious street to race heads = 190-200cc
smaller drag or circle track heads 200-210cc
larger drag or circle track heads 210-230cc
The runner size doesn't tell the whole story, you have to consider head flow as well. If you have a head that flows well but has a smaller intake runner like the vortec heads, then you know that the air is moving at a higher velocity. Lots of air through a small port. A big 230cc head flowing the same amount of air as a 170cc head will make less power down low and more up top and vise versa.
For a good street engine that will rarely see above 6000 rpm you can't beat the bang for the buck of the vortecs. Even though they require a specific intake and need slight modifications for lift above .460 they just can't be beat. They outflow a LOT of heads in the 180cc range. In a recent test in one of the car mags they outperformed almost all aftermarket heads untill you got into the $1000 heads.
First lets get the different size nomenclature sorted out so you know what we are talking about when we say "too big"
Chamber size: This is the combustion champer, bigger = less compression
Compression
Here's some general stock sizes
305=58cc
350= 64,72,74cc
400=72,74cc
To properly calculate your compression you need to take into account your bore, stroke, head gasket thickness, head cc and cc of either dome or dish in the piston.
Intake runner size: This is the size of the intake runner in cc.
Stock = ~160cc
vortec = 165-170cc
most street aftermarket heads = ~180
serious street to race heads = 190-200cc
smaller drag or circle track heads 200-210cc
larger drag or circle track heads 210-230cc
The runner size doesn't tell the whole story, you have to consider head flow as well. If you have a head that flows well but has a smaller intake runner like the vortec heads, then you know that the air is moving at a higher velocity. Lots of air through a small port. A big 230cc head flowing the same amount of air as a 170cc head will make less power down low and more up top and vise versa.
For a good street engine that will rarely see above 6000 rpm you can't beat the bang for the buck of the vortecs. Even though they require a specific intake and need slight modifications for lift above .460 they just can't be beat. They outflow a LOT of heads in the 180cc range. In a recent test in one of the car mags they outperformed almost all aftermarket heads untill you got into the $1000 heads.
05-16-2007, 04:49 PM
#92
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
BMonte so your saying I cant beat the vortec heads for price & perfomance? Do I have to take take the vortec leap?
Edit* Actually I like the price of these heads assembled already also...
will the stock exhaust heads work temporaily, like bolt up to the voretec heads? I know I will have to get a intake, but I found one for cheap...
Edit* Actually I like the price of these heads assembled already also...
will the stock exhaust heads work temporaily, like bolt up to the voretec heads? I know I will have to get a intake, but I found one for cheap...
Last edited by Tbi-MAX; 05-16-2007 at 05:03 PM.
05-16-2007, 07:17 PM
#93
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
No, you don't have to do it. It just makes sense, the cost of the vortec heads and an intake is equal to the cost of most budget aftermarket heads, plus they perform the same or better. It's kinda like getting the intake for free.
The intake is the only vortec specific part you'll need. Everything else bolts right up.
Dont' take my word for it, do your own research. www. chevyhighperformance.com has some very good head comparo articles.
The intake is the only vortec specific part you'll need. Everything else bolts right up.
Dont' take my word for it, do your own research. www. chevyhighperformance.com has some very good head comparo articles.
05-17-2007, 12:06 AM
#94
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
was looking at the parts of the old block yesterday.... it was remarkably clean for 202k, what messed up was bearing 7 & 8... everything else looked great... cylinders were still round and not scratched... I will have pics... also my block is at the 3rd machine shop, where stuff is actually getting done!
Im going with vortec heads, Im almost positive Ive decided now... so at least it goes with the thread title again.. lol
Bmonte, take a look at these heads, but they are re manufactured, but machined and has .55 lift on the springs for valves... I will get those and a intake manifold if it is okay for my build. I figure these will be just as good as some brand new ones, beside the extra machine work that comes with them also.. its 430$ is it a fair price?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=250114622408
I will also get the intake as well for 95 bucks. do I need the dual high rise or the single high rise they have listed in their auction? so my TB and spacer will bolt up to this manifold?
so being that everything bolts up my exhaust should be okay? ive been looking for some long tubes on summit, but I cant find what will fit... those stock exhaust look terrible, and poor flowing.
and another question, I know it will be some sort of egr issue... is it okay, to get rid of the egr as a whole. will it effect gas mileage if deleted in my tune? will it effect performance? I still want good gas mileage...
thanks for continued help... you guys are the best.
Im going with vortec heads, Im almost positive Ive decided now... so at least it goes with the thread title again.. lol
Bmonte, take a look at these heads, but they are re manufactured, but machined and has .55 lift on the springs for valves... I will get those and a intake manifold if it is okay for my build. I figure these will be just as good as some brand new ones, beside the extra machine work that comes with them also.. its 430$ is it a fair price?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=250114622408
I will also get the intake as well for 95 bucks. do I need the dual high rise or the single high rise they have listed in their auction? so my TB and spacer will bolt up to this manifold?
so being that everything bolts up my exhaust should be okay? ive been looking for some long tubes on summit, but I cant find what will fit... those stock exhaust look terrible, and poor flowing.
and another question, I know it will be some sort of egr issue... is it okay, to get rid of the egr as a whole. will it effect gas mileage if deleted in my tune? will it effect performance? I still want good gas mileage...
thanks for continued help... you guys are the best.
Last edited by Tbi-MAX; 05-17-2007 at 12:09 AM.
05-17-2007, 02:03 AM
#95
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
Those heads are not vortec heads. You say you for sure want vortec heads then post a link to an ebay auction of rebuilt stock 416 chevy heads? I don't get it. You NEED to do some research on head choices for 383's outside of this thread. Look around at all your options, see what's out there and make the best choice based on what YOU've learned. Nobody can tell you what to get, you'll be much happier in the end if you do the research and decide what's the best for your needs, and use this thread, and any other help as just help, not the Only way to go. Know what I mean? So, Please do yourself a favor and do some hard research before you impulsively buy a set of heads.
05-17-2007, 07:55 AM
#96
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
BronYrAur damn, I did not realize that... I guess just being in such a rush, I thought it was vortec, cause it said high performance gm... Im looking for casting number 062 instead of 906... Well I kinda fell for that price which tricked me... actually everyone is saying "vortec" but are not even vortec heads, this is crazy sale skeem..
alright will the lift of this work with my camshaft k1103?
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...t=NAL-12558060
lt4 valve springs and retainers allow up to how much lift? I found another set with those mods, for a good price.
alright will the lift of this work with my camshaft k1103?
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...t=NAL-12558060
lt4 valve springs and retainers allow up to how much lift? I found another set with those mods, for a good price.
Last edited by Tbi-MAX; 05-17-2007 at 08:17 AM.
05-17-2007, 12:13 PM
#97
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
You can get the same exact head for less than $500 a pair from GM. Your cam is going to be right on the brink of what the stock vortec's can take. I would actually measure your seal to retainer clearance to make sure you are ok. Last thing you want to do is round a lobe off of your cam.
As I mentioned in the PM, the LT4 retainers and springs won't allow any more lift untill you machine the valve guides. Once they are machined these springs will get you right up to .525 lift.
As I mentioned in the PM, the LT4 retainers and springs won't allow any more lift untill you machine the valve guides. Once they are machined these springs will get you right up to .525 lift.
05-17-2007, 12:22 PM
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Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
The 1103 may be too much for the stock/GMPP vortec heads. The max recommended lift is .450" The largest cam that i could find that would work with the stock configuration would be the Isky 262 flat tappet. Its got low lift and a lazy ramping rate thats compatible with the stock springs.
05-17-2007, 08:04 PM
#99
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
okay, I should be able to get the vortec heads with the correct lift .5 from what I believe. the seller will change springs for me to make the lift, its a online racing store.
05-17-2007, 08:31 PM
#100
Re: L05 383 STROKER plus vortec heads & summit CAM
The 1103 may be too much for the stock/GMPP vortec heads. The max recommended lift is .450" The largest cam that i could find that would work with the stock configuration would be the Isky 262 flat tappet. Its got low lift and a lazy ramping rate thats compatible with the stock springs.
should I keep it, and get stock vortecs, or keep looking for the higher lift? cause I have to return 1 of the cams.