Truck TBI future fun & games
03-31-2007, 09:39 PM
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Car: '90 GMC C1500 R/C Step
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 8.5" 10 bolt and 2.73 :(
Truck TBI future fun & games
So I've been reading the TBI and DIY PROM boards for a few weeks now, trying do digest everything out there.
I have a '90 C1500 (5.7L), and I would like some more power come rebuild time - I don't want to spend a fortune, this is just my truck.
I already have some 1 5/8" "mid-length" wysco ceramic headers, and 2 1/2" exhaust going to a Y-pipe, then 3" to a Magnaflow 5x11 3" I/O muffler.
When rebuild time comes, I'd like to add some stuff, but keeping the 193 heads and stock intake to keep costs down. I've heard the stock TBI intake is a pretty good piece up to 4500 rpm.
The engine will never see more than 5000 rpm, with the majority of it's time spent from 1500 to 3000 rpm. I am shooting for 250-275hp here.
Open Element air cleaner (mostly for cosmetic)
LT4 Cam + roller lifters (perhaps a used LT1 cam, they are cheap used?)
TPI Fuel Pump
FederalMogul H423NP pistons (should give me 9.0:1 depending on how far down they are in the hole - my quench will suck though, probably around 0.080")
Ultimate TBI mods
Pertronix or MSD HEI Coil and module (which brand, and are they worth it??)
I'd also like to fab up a dual 14" electric fan setup, and make my own shroud.
I'd like to do a mild port job on the heads, and gasket match the intake. I'm no machinist, but I'm fairly capable with my hands, so I believe this is within my abilities.
Valve springs with pressures similar to LT4 springs.
Now for the questions -
I have a 7747 ECM. I also have access to a 93-95 TBI Truck PCM. I've read Fast355's thread here https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...light=PCM+swap,
and
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...-x-over-01.gif
Re-pinning makes a few more questions pop up - I do need the connectors from the 7427 right?
The PCM questions keep coming too -
I'm using a 700R4 instead of a 4L60E. What is required to make the 93-95 PCM happy?
I understand that I need a knock sensor from a 93-95 as well, correct?
I have no IAT sensor. After swapping, I would assume I need one? Does it matter where I put it - I was thinking in the base of the air cleaner.
The hardware for burning chips I think I have sorted out.
G1 Memcal adapter
Burn1, because the ostrich is almost 100 bucks more. Would the Ostrich be worth the extra money for the convenience?
HDR1 so I can read the stock chip on the burn1
a couple of 27FS512 chips
Would a WB02 sensor be a worthwhile investment?
The would love to play with an EBL, but I want to keep this project from snowballing.
Is there anything I'm missing as far as the ECM swap goes?
I'm thinking of getting rid of the EGR too. Does EGR actually improve highway mileage, is it worth keeping?
I can't wait to swap out my crappy 2.73 gears for some 3.42's with some sort of locker or LSD as well. Between that and another 75-90hp, it will be quite the change.
MANY thanks in advance!
I have a '90 C1500 (5.7L), and I would like some more power come rebuild time - I don't want to spend a fortune, this is just my truck.
I already have some 1 5/8" "mid-length" wysco ceramic headers, and 2 1/2" exhaust going to a Y-pipe, then 3" to a Magnaflow 5x11 3" I/O muffler.
When rebuild time comes, I'd like to add some stuff, but keeping the 193 heads and stock intake to keep costs down. I've heard the stock TBI intake is a pretty good piece up to 4500 rpm.
The engine will never see more than 5000 rpm, with the majority of it's time spent from 1500 to 3000 rpm. I am shooting for 250-275hp here.
Open Element air cleaner (mostly for cosmetic)
LT4 Cam + roller lifters (perhaps a used LT1 cam, they are cheap used?)
TPI Fuel Pump
FederalMogul H423NP pistons (should give me 9.0:1 depending on how far down they are in the hole - my quench will suck though, probably around 0.080")
Ultimate TBI mods
Pertronix or MSD HEI Coil and module (which brand, and are they worth it??)
I'd also like to fab up a dual 14" electric fan setup, and make my own shroud.
I'd like to do a mild port job on the heads, and gasket match the intake. I'm no machinist, but I'm fairly capable with my hands, so I believe this is within my abilities.
Valve springs with pressures similar to LT4 springs.
Now for the questions -
I have a 7747 ECM. I also have access to a 93-95 TBI Truck PCM. I've read Fast355's thread here https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...light=PCM+swap,
and
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...-x-over-01.gif
Re-pinning makes a few more questions pop up - I do need the connectors from the 7427 right?
The PCM questions keep coming too -
I'm using a 700R4 instead of a 4L60E. What is required to make the 93-95 PCM happy?
I understand that I need a knock sensor from a 93-95 as well, correct?
I have no IAT sensor. After swapping, I would assume I need one? Does it matter where I put it - I was thinking in the base of the air cleaner.
The hardware for burning chips I think I have sorted out.
G1 Memcal adapter
Burn1, because the ostrich is almost 100 bucks more. Would the Ostrich be worth the extra money for the convenience?
HDR1 so I can read the stock chip on the burn1
a couple of 27FS512 chips
Would a WB02 sensor be a worthwhile investment?
The would love to play with an EBL, but I want to keep this project from snowballing.
Is there anything I'm missing as far as the ECM swap goes?
I'm thinking of getting rid of the EGR too. Does EGR actually improve highway mileage, is it worth keeping?
I can't wait to swap out my crappy 2.73 gears for some 3.42's with some sort of locker or LSD as well. Between that and another 75-90hp, it will be quite the change.
MANY thanks in advance!
Last edited by Fracture; 04-07-2007 at 04:49 PM.
04-02-2007, 08:33 AM
#2
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Car: '90 GMC C1500 R/C Step
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 8.5" 10 bolt and 2.73 :(
Re: Truck TBI future fun & games
Bump for some answers? 
04-02-2007, 10:12 AM
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Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
Re: Truck TBI future fun & games
So I've been reading the TBI and DIY PROM boards for a few weeks now, trying do digest everything out there.
I have a '90 C1500 (5.7L), and I would like some more power come rebuild time - I don't want to spend a fortune, this is just my truck.
I already have some 1 5/8" "mid-length" wysco ceramic headers, and 2 1/2" exhaust going to a Y-pipe, then 3" to a Magnaflow 5x11 3" I/O muffler.
When rebuild time comes, I'd like to add some stuff, but keeping the 193 heads and stock intake to keep costs down. I've heard the stock TBI intake is a pretty good piece up to 4500 rpm.
The engine will never see more than 5000 rpm, with the majority of it's time spent from 1500 to 3000 rpm. I am shooting for 275-300hp here.
Open Element air cleaner (mostly for cosmetic)
LT4 Cam + roller lifters (perhaps a used LT1 cam, they are cheap used?)
More likely its a flat tappet. something with 200-212 at the intake with <.480" lift and a mild ramp should be good if youll be keeping the heads as is
TPI Fuel Pump
FederalMogul H423NP pistons (should give me 9.0:1 depending on how far down they are in the hole - my quench will suck though, probably around 0.080")
Ultimate TBI mods
Pertronix or MSD HEI Coil and module (which brand, and are they worth it??)
I'd also like to fab up a dual 14" electric fan setup, and make my own shroud.
I'd like to do a mild port job on the heads, and gasket match the intake. I'm no machinist, but I'm fairly capable with my hands, so I believe this is within my abilities.
Valve springs with pressures similar to LT4 springs.
Now for the questions -
I have a 7747 ECM. I also have access to a 93-95 TBI Truck PCM. I've read Fast355's thread here https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...light=PCM+swap,
and
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...-x-over-01.gif
Re-pinning makes a few more questions pop up - I do need the connectors from the 7427 right?
Rosesandwrenches.com has the connectors. The 32-pin blue and red ones are what you need
The PCM questions keep coming too -
I'm using a 700R4 instead of a 4L60E. What is required to make the 93-95 PCM happy?
All you need to do is check off the option for a non-CC trans and wire the brake siwtch up and the TCC to the "PWM TCC" output, and your good to go.
I understand that I need a knock sensor from a 93-95 as well, correct?
Yes, or mod the existing one to have the correct resistance
I have no IAT sensor. After swapping, I would assume I need one? Does it matter where I put it - I was thinking in the base of the air cleaner.
No. TBI doesnt use the IAT due to how the system works. Can put it in if you want, though. The PCM has the options to use it.
The hardware for burning chips I think I have sorted out.
G1 Memcal adapter
Burn1, because the ostrich is almost 100 bucks more. Would the Ostrich be worth the extra money for the convenience? Cant hurt. Itll speed up the process
HDR1 so I can read the stock chip on the burn1
a couple of 27FS512 chips
Would a WB02 sensor be a worthwhile investment? YES!!!
The would love to play with an EBL, but I want to keep this project from snowballing.
Is there anything I'm missing as far as the ECM swap goes? The PCM, adapter, and repinning should have you covered. Just read up on what needs to be connected to what.
I'm thinking of getting rid of the EGR too. Does EGR actually improve highway mileage, is it worth keeping? It cant hurt, but you can live without it if youll be tuning. Not really needed.
I can't wait to swap out my crappy 2.73 gears for some 3.42's with some sort of locker or LSD as well. Between that and another 75-90hp, it will be quite the change.
MANY thanks in advance!
I have a '90 C1500 (5.7L), and I would like some more power come rebuild time - I don't want to spend a fortune, this is just my truck.
I already have some 1 5/8" "mid-length" wysco ceramic headers, and 2 1/2" exhaust going to a Y-pipe, then 3" to a Magnaflow 5x11 3" I/O muffler.
When rebuild time comes, I'd like to add some stuff, but keeping the 193 heads and stock intake to keep costs down. I've heard the stock TBI intake is a pretty good piece up to 4500 rpm.
The engine will never see more than 5000 rpm, with the majority of it's time spent from 1500 to 3000 rpm. I am shooting for 275-300hp here.
Open Element air cleaner (mostly for cosmetic)
LT4 Cam + roller lifters (perhaps a used LT1 cam, they are cheap used?)
More likely its a flat tappet. something with 200-212 at the intake with <.480" lift and a mild ramp should be good if youll be keeping the heads as is
TPI Fuel Pump
FederalMogul H423NP pistons (should give me 9.0:1 depending on how far down they are in the hole - my quench will suck though, probably around 0.080")
Ultimate TBI mods
Pertronix or MSD HEI Coil and module (which brand, and are they worth it??)
I'd also like to fab up a dual 14" electric fan setup, and make my own shroud.
I'd like to do a mild port job on the heads, and gasket match the intake. I'm no machinist, but I'm fairly capable with my hands, so I believe this is within my abilities.
Valve springs with pressures similar to LT4 springs.
Now for the questions -
I have a 7747 ECM. I also have access to a 93-95 TBI Truck PCM. I've read Fast355's thread here https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...light=PCM+swap,
and
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...-x-over-01.gif
Re-pinning makes a few more questions pop up - I do need the connectors from the 7427 right?
Rosesandwrenches.com has the connectors. The 32-pin blue and red ones are what you need
The PCM questions keep coming too -
I'm using a 700R4 instead of a 4L60E. What is required to make the 93-95 PCM happy?
All you need to do is check off the option for a non-CC trans and wire the brake siwtch up and the TCC to the "PWM TCC" output, and your good to go.
I understand that I need a knock sensor from a 93-95 as well, correct?
Yes, or mod the existing one to have the correct resistance
I have no IAT sensor. After swapping, I would assume I need one? Does it matter where I put it - I was thinking in the base of the air cleaner.
No. TBI doesnt use the IAT due to how the system works. Can put it in if you want, though. The PCM has the options to use it.
The hardware for burning chips I think I have sorted out.
G1 Memcal adapter
Burn1, because the ostrich is almost 100 bucks more. Would the Ostrich be worth the extra money for the convenience? Cant hurt. Itll speed up the process
HDR1 so I can read the stock chip on the burn1
a couple of 27FS512 chips
Would a WB02 sensor be a worthwhile investment? YES!!!
The would love to play with an EBL, but I want to keep this project from snowballing.
Is there anything I'm missing as far as the ECM swap goes? The PCM, adapter, and repinning should have you covered. Just read up on what needs to be connected to what.
I'm thinking of getting rid of the EGR too. Does EGR actually improve highway mileage, is it worth keeping? It cant hurt, but you can live without it if youll be tuning. Not really needed.
I can't wait to swap out my crappy 2.73 gears for some 3.42's with some sort of locker or LSD as well. Between that and another 75-90hp, it will be quite the change.
MANY thanks in advance!
Last edited by dimented24x7; 04-02-2007 at 10:54 AM.
04-02-2007, 01:05 PM
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Car: '90 GMC C1500 R/C Step
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 8.5" 10 bolt and 2.73 :(
Re: Truck TBI future fun & games
Thanks dimented - yes, the cam is a flat tappet - I had to change the intake gaskets last year, but the block has provisions for a roller setup, and I'd like to switch to a roller when I rebuild.
04-06-2007, 05:18 PM
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Re: Truck TBI future fun & games
Brian
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku
I Got the above information from FSC.
- B
04-06-2007, 06:20 PM
#6
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Car: '90 GMC C1500 R/C Step
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 8.5" 10 bolt and 2.73 :(
Re: Truck TBI future fun & games
There is a rumor that some did have roller cams but I never have seen proof. Mostly ego talk I believe. But your block most likely has provisions for the spider tray. So all you would need to swap to a roller cam would be the roller lifters, spider tray and retainers, front cam retainer plate and the cam.
Brian
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku
I Got the above information from FSC.
- B
Brian
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku
I Got the above information from FSC.
- B
Last edited by Fracture; 04-07-2007 at 01:52 AM.
04-07-2007, 07:03 AM
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Car: 93 GM300 platforms
Engine: LO3, LO5
Transmission: MD8 x2
Re: Truck TBI future fun & games
LT4 Cam + roller lifters (perhaps a used LT1 cam, they are cheap used?)
TPI Fuel Pump
FederalMogul H423NP pistons (should give me 9.0:1 depending on how far down they are in the hole - my quench will suck though, probably around 0.080")
.....
I'd like to do a mild port job on the heads, and gasket match the intake. I'm no machinist, but I'm fairly capable with my hands, so I believe this is within my abilities.
...
I have no IAT sensor. After swapping, I would assume I need one? Does it matter where I put it - I was thinking in the base of the air cleaner.
...
I'm thinking of getting rid of the EGR too. Does EGR actually improve highway mileage, is it worth keeping?
Trending Topics
04-07-2007, 12:33 PM
#8
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Car: '90 GMC C1500 R/C Step
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 8.5" 10 bolt and 2.73 :(
Re: Truck TBI future fun & games
Thanks
As far as the open air cleaner goes, I was thinking that since the factory intake is a heated design, the slight change in intake air temperature caused by the open element would be outweighed by the greater amount of airflow. I figured the factory air cleaner maintains an intake air temperature that's quite warm because of the flapper that directs air from the exhaust manifold, so the open element couldn't be sucking air any warmer than that. Aftermarket CAI's seem to just stick a cone filter near the hole in the fenderwell that the factory air silencer would sit, so I don't know how much of a benefit that would be. I'll have to look into some of the other designs out there.
As far as pistons goes - I can deck the block so the pistons are .030" in the hole, use a .028" thick head gasket, and that will net me 9.3:1, give or take a wee bit. Quench still is a little big at .058" though.
I'll have to look into putting a coolant temp sensor in the manifold to serve as a MAT then, once I swap the ECM's and get into tuning.
Perhaps I set my HP goal a little high. With an LT1 cam I don't think that 250-270hp is out of line though.
As far as the open air cleaner goes, I was thinking that since the factory intake is a heated design, the slight change in intake air temperature caused by the open element would be outweighed by the greater amount of airflow. I figured the factory air cleaner maintains an intake air temperature that's quite warm because of the flapper that directs air from the exhaust manifold, so the open element couldn't be sucking air any warmer than that. Aftermarket CAI's seem to just stick a cone filter near the hole in the fenderwell that the factory air silencer would sit, so I don't know how much of a benefit that would be. I'll have to look into some of the other designs out there.
As far as pistons goes - I can deck the block so the pistons are .030" in the hole, use a .028" thick head gasket, and that will net me 9.3:1, give or take a wee bit. Quench still is a little big at .058" though.
I'll have to look into putting a coolant temp sensor in the manifold to serve as a MAT then, once I swap the ECM's and get into tuning.
Perhaps I set my HP goal a little high. With an LT1 cam I don't think that 250-270hp is out of line though.
Last edited by Fracture; 04-08-2007 at 12:37 AM.
04-09-2007, 08:00 AM
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Car: 93 GM300 platforms
Engine: LO3, LO5
Transmission: MD8 x2
Re: Truck TBI future fun & games
Secondly, the mistake almost everyone on this forum makes is the idea that a large air filter will result in big power gains. The truth is that power gains will only happen from an air cleaner swap if the stock air cleaner // element was a restriction to air flow to begin with. Certainly the stock air cleaner is designed to keep engine roar to a minimum, but what about the pressure difference across the air cleaner? Is there much of a pressure reduction? (This subject has been covered before on TGO). The other factor is how stock, or how modified, is the engine? The stock air cleaner might not offer much flow resistance (pressure drop) on a nearly stock engine; on one of Fast355's 300+ fwhp engines it probably would.
Summarized: you might get a power gain from an air cleaner swap if the one being replaced had significant flow losses; you WILL get a power gain by pulling cold air into the engine; if you can accomplish BOTH, then you're doing the best you can.
... Perhaps I set my HP goal a little high. With an LT1 cam I don't think that 250-270hp is out of line though.
04-09-2007, 01:13 PM
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Car: '90 GMC C1500 R/C Step
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 8.5" 10 bolt and 2.73 :(
Re: Truck TBI future fun & games
I thought that the stock air cleaner was more of a restriction than you've made it out to be - I thought the 1 1/2" spacer on top of the throttle body, coupled to a dropped base air cleaner would hamper flow considerably. That's why I was thinking of ditching it in favour of something else.
02-15-2009, 08:42 AM
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Car: 1995 K1500 Yukon 2-Dr and 1982 Z-28
Engine: truck: 350hp 454 car: 485hp 355
Transmission: truck:5spd car: Doug Nash 5spd
Axle/Gears: truck: stock car: Dana44 w 3:23
Re: Truck TBI future fun & games
E!
02-15-2009, 09:51 AM
#12
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Car: '90 GMC C1500 R/C Step
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Axle/Gears: 8.5" 10 bolt and 2.73 :(
Re: Truck TBI future fun & games
I know nothing about the brakes changing, sorry, or what complete rearends would fit. I'd guess all the 10 (and 12) bolt's from the 73-99 trucks would fit though. Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
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