snflupigus

continued from "tire spin on demand, finally"

i think i might have posi.
most likely not, but both tires do spin. i know that for sure.

also, i think by adjusting my tranny cable ive made my tranny, able to just really crank power to the rear wheels. team that with the delay in response from the 454 tbi,and increased fpr and whatever you call it " converter flash up" makes the tires almost hard to keep from spinning.

comments, or am i just lucky and my l03 is a freak and actually has power?

guess im just lookin for comments here.
whatever.




------------------
IM: snflupigus | ICQ: 96787192

ENGINE SPECS:
305 TBI,Open Element,K&N 14x3,Hypertech Stage I,160 Deg. Thermostat,454 GM TBI

STEREO SPECS:
JVC Kalmeleon kdlx3,Infinity Kappa 2way 6x9's,PPI 4x6 Coaxials,PPI PC2400 AMP @ 2ohm
DEI Studio 12" 4ohm DVC,Custom Box:Exactly 1 Cubic Foot

91Bird305

I think your a freak you frickin pyscho.
I don't know man. You say it takes off the line like that or when shifting? What size tires do u have anyways?

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ5 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor-MSD Blaster Coil-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html

simon

When I have mine on the lift and spin one tire the other one spins in the same direction. To the best of my knowledge this is a positive traction rear. In the past I had a Datsun 280Z as well as a 68 Falcon, both did not have posi. When off the ground, the wheels would spin in opposite directions indicating non-posi. I guess the main reason for this is when you turn a corner it permits the tires to rotate at different speeds. Also, some posi rearends lock under load and give on turns so you have the best of both worlds. I think a Detroit locker rear does this.

soulbounder

I know this may be hard to believe, but I have a completely stock LO3 and when I take off hard, both tires will spin until I let off (not even raining). They will also spin again shifting from 1-2. I have an auto tranny and no posi.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Check your RPO codes for G80. If you have it, then your car came stock with a posi differential. If you dont have it, then someone could have changed it before you bought the car. You'll have to take the cover off and inspect the differential to know for sure, if you know what you're looking for, that is.

------------------
1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
13.25 @ 107.18 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Webmaster: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-

pianiy

iTrader: (2)

Well he could also check the axle part number located on the passenger side rear part of the axle a few inches from the diff. Any Haynes or Chiltons manual will tell you what kind of axle it is and what gears you have.


------------------
'91 Firebird
305/TBI(L03)/700R4/T-tops
Mods: Catco high flow cat - B&M Shift kit - K&N Air Filter - Trans Am tail light conversion
Stereo: Pioneer DEH-P8200R - Pioneer 6x9's - Kenwood 8" Tube

'87 Firebird
2.8L/MPFI/700R4/220K
Totalled it but saved a bunch of parts before it went to the junk yard.
Firebird parts

91Bird305

Soulbounder, something must be wrong with ur car. If that is a stock LO3 then there is no way in hell it should be doin that.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ5 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor-MSD Blaster Coil-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html

simon

Try the RPO decoder, I did, turns out I have a 272 posi. RPO code G80 on mine.

snflupigus

my car will do what soulbounders car does too. 16x8's. bf goodrich radial ta's

soulbounder

Seriously. My car does that. The tires are wearing thin but still have some grip left.

91Bird305

I think u guys must just mess with stuff to much. Don't touch that cable, stop playing with those wires, no it doesn't need to be cleaned or have it tuned. Now look what u done. You have a 170hp engine that can miraclously burn the tires like its a 350 small block but now u are pulling even worse ET's then u did before because now u can't even get traction.
::Shakes head and walks off mumbling to myself::

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ5 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor-MSD Blaster Coil-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Unless someone has changed the differential and/or the gears, then those codes are worthless. Then you'd have to take off the differential cover and look, like I said.

You have 2.73 gears, there isnt 2.72 available.

ONEFINE8T9

eric y is that so hard to believe that his car can do a burn out. **** man the 2.8 and 3.1 thirdgens can do a burnout from a red light i dont see y u think its impossible for him. I mean r u tellin us that ur car didnt have those kind of nutts when u got it?

------------------
1989 pontiac firebird
bright red exterior(just repainted)
grey interior
5 spd
305 TBI (stock)
WS.6 formula wheels
3.73 posi rear end
-------------------------
system: 2 10" MTX thunder 2000 in a Professionally done custom bandpass box.
Blaupunkt CD player
Blaupunkt 4x6 and 6x9
600 watt rockford fosgate 4.6 amp

http://members.aol.com/j007golden/Mikey89.html

mike ghoul

Befro I even did anything to my car, I used to be able to light em up like a son of a bitch. You better be able to do a burnout with a car that have 255 pd ft of torque, and no *** in the rear.

Now even with the posi if I get on it at a stoplight, I'm going sideways.

Before I got my posi both tires spun(obvioulsly they both will always spin), but not at the same speed. If you want to tell if you have posi, go do a big *** burnout, and accelerate out of it at full throttle, check the tire marks. You may have two tire marks, but if it isn't posi one will be much lighter in color, and end before the other.

91Bird305

No, I could do it, but not like u guys are saying. Not being able to hook up, breaking the tires looks when it shifts into 2nd. I mean come on. 255lbs is not that much torque guys. I could break them loose when I did all my mods and gained some traction when I installed the posi and bigger tires. But some of the stuff is kinda hard to belive. Atleast stock it is hard to belive.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ5 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-MSD Cap & Rotor-MSD Blaster Coil-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html

ONEFINE8T9

No, I could do it, but not like u guys are saying. Not being able to hook up, breaking the tires looks when it shifts into 2nd


ok u couldnt get a nice healthy bark into 2nd just punching it and letting it shift?


I mean come on. 255lbs is not that much torque guys.

eric its only a #. U always bring that into a topic, how low out put the L03 is. U might have just got one of the slower ones. It could seriously happen. I know there is not a doubt in my mind that this kid could let his tires go sideways and bark into 2nd. Hell the damn thing better......its a V8 f bod

I could break them loose when I did all my mods and gained some traction when I installed the posi and bigger tires.

how could gaining some traction and adding bigger tires help u to break ur tires loose?

But some of the stuff is kinda hard to belive. Atleast stock it is hard to belive.

naw man, again i say these cars are V8 f bods and from the factory they came pretty fast. I mean its not like they put honda CRX 75hp 4 cyls under the hood.

------------------
1989 pontiac firebird
bright red exterior(just repainted)
grey interior
5 spd
305 TBI (stock)
WS.6 formula wheels
3.73 posi rear end
-------------------------
system: 2 10" MTX thunder 2000 in a Professionally done custom bandpass box.
Blaupunkt CD player
Blaupunkt 4x6 and 6x9
600 watt rockford fosgate 4.6 amp

http://members.aol.com/j007golden/Mikey89.html

BLUE92RS

It depends on your definition of a burn out. I am assuming you did a power break or a neutral drop which is something i hope you didn't do.

If you just stomped on it form a complete stop without doing one of the above there is no way you did a burnout. You may turn over the tire once but thats it.

Mine is stock except for the open element. When i power break it letting it get to maybe 1800 rpms you can spin a little may about a few secs but thats all. If you hold your foot on the break till 3500 or 4000 rpms i can beleive you can do a "burnout" but in my opinon thats probably not to good for the car.

pianiy

iTrader: (2)

snflupigus, this is all your fault! Everybody's got their own opinion... somebody could write a book on this topic alone... probably has...

Eggplant Jeff

Everyone, when you say you do burnouts, SPECIFY YOUR TIRE SIZES!!!

Now, for my own 2 cents, I have an open 2.73 rear, mostly stock L03 (standard cheap stuff, open air cleaner etc), and BFG Comp T/A Vr4 255/45/16s on the back. I can spin one for about 6-10 feet depending on road surface, if it's dry. Of course on wet pavement I can kill myself :-). If I had 235s that came stock, I could probably spin quite a bit farther. Some of us got 215s stock, burnouts shouldn't be much of a problem at all. Tire condition matters too, on my old 255's that were badly worn down, I once left a (single) 25-foot burn mark outside my old office. That was no brake stand, I just floored it. Ever since I put the new tires on, no way, like I said before 6-10 feet max. Some roads I hook up better than others and can't spin at all, but mostly I can get away with a relatively small chirp.

91Bird305

Yeah, your right. I got one of the slower LO3's that GM made and u got one of the faster stock LO3's. Unbelivable.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ5 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-MSD Cap & Rotor-MSD Blaster Coil-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html

soulbounder

Well, I have one of the cars that came with 215's stock. The guy that owned it before me put some 7" rims on it though. (WTF? Who in the world goes with smaller rims on a sports car?) The tires are not in the best shape and have little grip left to them. My %100 stock LO3 will spin this small tires until I left off the throttle; not power braking or anything else, just pushing down the accelerator while in overdrive. But, myself, I don't think it would do this with new tires, even if they were 215's. BTW, does anyone know how wide of tires you can put on a 7" wide rim without it looking bad?

snflupigus

i have the z28 rims on the rs. it would spin the tires from a stop when i got it in april of 97 with 58k miles. The tires will spin for indefinately if i hold the gas down. if i floor it from a stop it will spin then i of course let off just a little to get em to stick, then floor it again. but i gotta ease into the gas for best acceleration.
im going to call the original buyer soon. and i remembered where i put the original build sheet/order form whatever with all the options list stuff.
sorry.
this is not a burnout or tire spin arguement. so i dont care what you call it. i just want to know how many lo3s came with posi, and how many people have em, and if i have one, and how to tell. now i know, thanks for all your help
thanks.

Macgyver

There is a 2.72 available, on the automatic BW 9-bolt rears, my buddy has one.

simon

Kevin91Z, you are correct, mine is not a 272, but rather a 273 G80. Somewhere between reading the RPO decoder and typing the response I screwed up.

mike ghoul

let me clear up some definitions hear for everyone's sake. To me a "burnout" is causing as much tire spin/smoke/fun as possible, spinning wheels from a stop and stuff like that is called "lighting them up"

You are correct about me power braking, however this is not bad for the car, just your wallet(tires are expensive). Off a dead start with the old 2.73 rear and open differential I still smoked em for about 15 feet or so. I don't know if you all can do this or not, that's just what my car did. Wearing 215 65 15 in good condition.

------------------
1990 Camaro RS
305 TBI Auto
K&N Open Air Element, Edelbrock Performer Intake, Edelbrock Headers,Catco Hi Flow Cat, Edelbrock Exhaust, Hypertech Underdrive Pulley's, Jacobs Ignition, Fast Chip PROM, B&M Shift Kit, B&M Mega Shifter, 3.73 Rear with Auburn Limited Slip, KYB GR2 Gas Shocks and Struts, Eibach Pro Kit Lowering Springs, Edelbrock 3 Point Strut Tower Brace, Baer 13 in. Slotted Rotors with Metallic Pads, American Racing Torq Thrust II 16x8 Wheels with Toyo 245 50 VR 16 Tires, 3 in. Cowl Hood, A little weight here and a little weight there.

ONEFINE8T9

Yeah, your right. I got one of the slower LO3's that GM made and u got one of the faster stock LO3's. Unbelivable.


unbeliveable....lol ya right, like it couldnt happen with GM. im not even gonna get into this arguement, its not worth my time

Godti

I asked a similar question, and got several responses.

Check it out:
www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/Forum7/HTML/002277.html


I have the L03 and I can not do a brakestand (burnout). If I launch hard the tires spin, but if I apply the brake when I launch (I drive a 5-spd) the engine slowly dies out. I have stock 3.08 gears. My guess is my engine is really really weak!!


------------------
Godti
'89 Trans Am (Red)
305 TBI 5spd

91Bird305

No please, enlighten me on how GM could make a fast LO3 and a slow LO3 and why would they do it? I would really like to hear this.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

The 9-bolt ratio is 2.77, the 10-bolt ratio is 2.73. No other 2.7x ratios are available stock on thirdgens.

ONEFINE8T9

No please, enlighten me on how GM could make a fast LO3 and a slow LO3 and why would they do it? I would really like to hear this.


WTF r u high?? arent u the one who tells everyone that GMs quality can vary and that would possibly make a car faster than another? ummmmm lemme think.....ya that was u, making it possible for u to get one of the slow "L03s"

snflupigus

hey, ok, i got my answer. i found a copy of my window sticker. it looks like i dont have posi from the factory. and im assuming that i only have limited slip since im pretty sure the original owner didnt do jack to the car.

i guess the mods ive done have givin me more torque and im able to spin the dead side tire more than usual. i guess.

o and if i do a brake stand, i get to about 600 rpm before my right rear spins. and the motor wont die out. either my rear brakes or gone or i think i have something wrong in my tranny.

anyway some of you arent talking about the subject now. dont start fighting, i havent had to close anything since becoming moderator, and i dont want to for a long long time.

------------------
IM: snflupigus | ICQ: 96787192

ENGINE SPECS:
305 TBI,Open Element,K&N 14x3,Hypertech Stage I,160 Deg. Thermostat,454 GM TBI

STEREO SPECS:
JVC Kalmeleon kdlx3,Infinity Kappa 2way 6x9's,PPI 4x6 Coaxials,PPI PC2400 AMP @ 2ohm
DEI Studio 12" 4ohm DVC,Custom Box:Exactly 1 Cubic Foot

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Limited slip and posi are two different names for the same thing. If you dont have one, you dont have the other. Sorry.

snflupigus

say what?? so what is it if both spin but at different speeds?? not contending, but this is how it was explained to me by a mechanic that works for me.

limited slip = both spin but not at same rate or torque.

posi = both spin with equal rate and torque.

91Bird305

Mike, I am not high and when did I ever say that? Find somewhere in one of the tons of threads on here and quote me. How do stock GM engines vary? There all made with the same parts.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ5 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-MSD Cap & Rotor-MSD Blaster Coil-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html

ONEFINE8T9

well when u said it i wasnt gonna argue so i wouldnt know exactly why there could possibly be a difference between n e of these motors. Its not really worth my time to look through all the threads on this board to prove a point.

BTW i dont even know how to quote people from different threads....

mike ghoul

"posi" and limited slip are the same thing.

Back in the 60's GM called it's version of limited slip---posi tractiion, that is why people call limited slip "posi" they are, and do the same thing.

LT90RS

Well posi traction units are full time both tires turning at the same speed,curves,straights does not matter and hard as hell to turn around in parking lots, also makes the front end of the car "push"(read not good for the street) into curves.
Limted slip rear ends only lock up when the tq from the motor causes the "pack" in the rear to lock.

------------------
90RS 305TBI\5-speed
Fastchip
Open Air Cleaner
Lakewood LCA & Panhard,10 Bolt Posi-Disk Rearend 3.42's
KYB all around
Energy Supension front end kit
36/24 Sway bars
Dual Fans
In the works-
Elenbrock TBI
LT-1 Cam
Roller Rockers
SSM subframe connectors

snflupigus

so they are not the same thing? Please LT90RS only answer. You sound like you know exactly what you are talking about. Others, no offense, sound like me, just quoting from people who have told them before.

BLUE92RS

So the take off units from (SLP) Zexel that they take of fourth gens. when they come across from canada are those posi or limited slip.

I know everyone says there the same but some people say there not, but i was just wondering.

MrJ

It's more than obvious that you don't know what you are talking about. Limited slip and posi are two terms for the same device. You are confusing a posi rear end with a locker rear end.

snflupigus

ok,this is rediculous. is there maybe a mechanic out there that could prove credibility then answer. i dont have any idea who to beleive now.

91Bird305

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Hey Nic, why don't u call up a mechanic or a dealer or somethin. They would probably know. Or go to the tech section and ask Vadar or somethin, I know he is a licensed mechanic.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ5 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-MSD Cap & Rotor-MSD Blaster Coil-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited November 29, 2000).]

ONEFINE8T9

talk to GMTECH. he would know

mike ghoul

No, i was right about what I said, posi and limited slip is the same thing.

The post above is correct about "locker" rear ends, they cause both tires to spin full time, they are used for circle track racing, and NEVER on the street.

Anyone who knows jack about cars will back me up on this.

just trying to answer your questions.

mike ghoul

oh, and nowday's GM just calls it a limited slip differential, they haven't called it "poi-traction" in decades.

snflupigus

Thanks to all, ok, seriously you can stop responding now.