rockit

iTrader: (3)

hey, ive been torn between an EBL and the p4 ecm swap but i just thought about using BOTH of them at once. Use the ebl for all the fuel spark engine management stuff and then run a p4 as a dedicated trans computer. Im not sure how you would do this, could you use the ebl to export the vss, tps, and other necessary data to the p4 so it could run a 4l60/4l80 e? just tuck the p4 under the center console and pull the armerest to swap a seperate chip into it.
think it would work?? what all sensors does the p4 need to do this and would it even run without it being entirelly attached to the main wiring harness??
i really want the trans controll of the p4 but not the tuning problems, im still a novice to tuning.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I think shortly that TBI, Mass Air Flow and a 4L60E can be used togather. Dimented and I already have a MAF run TBI running. Dimented was first and wrote the code, I am just using it and putting it through the paces as Dimented's F-Car is down. Dimented and I are still trying to figure out the transmission side of things. Currently the transmission code is still there, just the Transmission Output Speed Sensor is used for the Mass AirFlow sensor input. I have been thinking though, if you were to use a 4L60E, I believe that the Transmission Ouput Speed Sensor sends out the same signal as the Turbine Shaft Speed Sensor (Input Shaft). Just that the DRAC intercepts the signal under the dash and transforms it to a different signal. I am thinking of writing a simple routine to input the Transmission Ouput Speed Signal into the Turbine Shaft Speed sensor input, just without a DRAC. The signal will then be turned into MPH by a simple code using RPM, Tire Diameter, and Gear Ratio. The Calculated MPH can then be used in place of the Transmission Output Speed Signal in the PCM to run the 4L60E. Keep in mind that this is for the 4L60E ONLY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nVQePIYzhI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4CY3PvklvM

rockit

iTrader: (3)

uh,,, is that a yes? doesnt the p4 need the tps as well? how would you split that signal so that both get it? whats a DRAC?

two other small questions. i know you can run a switch to lock up your converter on the older cars,
wondering if you can run a button on the steering wheel or wherever to hold whatever gear your in so it doesnt upshify\t under throttle, at the same time running a rev limiter lower then a regular one. this is all in the interest of drifting the car. i know the rev limiter can be done within the EBL as a nitrous rev limiter minus the nitrous, however im not sure if i can do a hold button for the tranny. might be advantageous to simultaneosly lock the converter.
let me hear what ya think!

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

The PCM already has a basic rev limiter in it. I added proportional SA rev control to the MAF source code to smooth rev limiter entry and exit, but havnt had a chance to test the latest iteration of it. Im sifting through the transmission code now so it can be included in the future XDF files. With a few minor tweaks, it could be easily made to work in the MAF source code (provided there is adequate time available for the MAF code and trans code).

As for the button, Im sure something could be rigged up. For that matter, with some additional code, you could change gears 1-3 to be full manual when they are selected, or even add a paddle shifter if you really wanted the "ooohhh-aaahhh" factor, but that would probably be a bit over the top. Although, it would be a really sweet mod.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

As for the transmissions, you might even be able to run a 4L80-E. I cant immediatly see any MUST have issues for the turbine input speed. Back calculating the input shaft speed from the TOS isnt the most accurate way, but it should suffice, unless there is some application specific need for it.

rockit

iTrader: (3)

so it is feasible to run the p4 for a tranny computer with an ebl running the motor? im still wondering how you output the signal from the tps to the p4 and the ebl at the same time.

paddle shifters, lol, i dont need to spank my car but full manual on the gears using buttons might come in later, my steering wheel is going to look like a playstation controller pretty soon...

rockit

iTrader: (3)

also im avoiding using the pcm for my E.M.S because im not familiar at all with maf and not familiar enough with SD to combine the two. im sure there is some benefit to running the hybrid sd/maf system but its way beyond my current experience, hell i cant even solder well yet.

im quickly becoming mr.acronym by reading on this forum, seem to remember a funny post about that..

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

The PCM only uses MAF, which is faster and easier to tune then SD. Basically the limit of the fueling is an 85 cell MAF frequency table that you calibrate with a WB. Fairly easy to tune. The SD is there in case the MAF signal is lost. The computer switches over to SD when this happens.

As far as the manual gears, the easiest thing would be to set the PCM up to be full manual in 1-3 with maybe some emergency safeguards in case you stick it in first at 80 or something.

rockit

iTrader: (3)

thats what im getting at though, the EBL has some great tuning features and seems like a better jumping in point then going maf on my first try. what im saying is, tuck an ebl equiped ecm under the dash for engine management and thats a done deal THEN run a p4 pcm out of the same truck i hope to pull a motor and trans from and run that as a pure trans computer with the ebl taking care of the engine still and the p4 pcm not having any connection to the main wiring harness other then tps and such.. im sorry if im beating my head on the wall but it just seems that we're not on the same page. maybe im saying it wrong, i know you're running the newer pcm and maf as your e.m.s and trans computer, im trying to get the benefits of a computer controlled trans which i dont believe the EBL has. am i completely wring can the EBL be had in a newer pcm as well??

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

The in stock form, PCM also has alot of the stuff that EBL has, and as long as your engine isnt real radical, most of your tuning will be primarily SA and fuel. The EBL would work fine, but youd have two computers, more wiring, and more complexity. Running a stock PCM would consolidate everything.

rockit

iTrader: (3)

aren't there multiple 3d tables with the pcm? im a lil concerned about how much time it will actually take to be able to drive the car as i'd have to wire up MAF and such. i have a pretty good handle on the stock l03 ecms tables and such although obviously im still learning, how big of a jump is it to the pcm? im going to go download the xdf and bin for the pcm right now so i can look it over.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Attached is a XDF that I added a few more things to, based on Dimented's commented hack.

Took me about 2 hours to re-pin the harness, swap the knock sensor, and bypass the ESC module (the 12vdc and ground work well for the MAF sensor). I drove it on the stock Memcal until my Moates GP1 kit came in. When that happened, I burned a custom calibration running in speed density mode. The I got the MAF sensor wired and in place. When that was done, I burned the MAF bin modified with my settings and it ran.

rockit

iTrader: (3)

thank you very much, was having problems finding an xdf. ima go take a look at that ill be back tommorow, thanks for all the help guys

rockit

iTrader: (3)

looked her over last night , seems pretty restricted from the factory, 98 mph speed limiter, 4800 rpm limit, trans actually seems dialed in pretty nicely although im not sure whats goin on with some of the final tables that were all zeroed out. dont understand what the MAF tables do at all, if im guessing right what the tables do is correct the numbers coming out of the MAF. in otherwords the flow characteristics of the air through the MAF maf change and you have to adjust those numbers to manually correct for these changes. in otherwords the volume of air may increase but the maf may under report because of the way the air flows correct? seems pretty straight forward other then that. oh, what was the purpose in the line pressure settings labled as being mods? and also some of the comments confused me, are the values seen in the tables real or do they need to be multiplied or something?

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Less than 20* of timing @ WOT and very slow advance rate, also shows up.

Are the MAF tables in my .XDF or did Dimented send you one?

The MAF tables are look up tables and filter tables.

Mods to just that, Modify the pressure coming out of the Main Tables for various operating conditions. PE, different gears, RPM, etc.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

As for the MAF, the large, 85 line table is the main airflow vs. frequency table. This is what converts the MAFs frequency output to grams per second airflow. The airflow is then used to directly calculate the fueling based on cylinder volume, injector flowrate, and desired AFR. The flowrate table is unique to the MAF and intake ducting in use and needs to be set up. Doesnt take too long. Usually within a couple of tunes you can get it close.

The additional filter coeff. vs. RPM and MAP allows you to have a variable filter coeff. based on the engines load and speed. Lower numbers = more filtering. This is useful if your running a cam and you want to minimize lope or fluctuations around idle. The MAF transient filter coeff. is there to allow you to use seperate filtering during changing throttle to provide good throttle response. Without it, there may be a lag in the MAFs response if there is alot of filtering. There is also a TPS threshold to determine when this is used. Once the TPS opening rate is above this, the transient filter coefficient is used.

As far as the trans goes, Im still looking through it. Ive mapped out alot of the base routines, hardware, and force motor PID control calibration, but the TCC, added line pressure, and shift calibrations havnt been touched yet.

I havnt posted a bin yet, but I can put something up later.

rockit

iTrader: (3)

so whats going to happen in the trans if we change stuff around without a fully commented code? any possibilities of messing up the trans?

Yea im not seeing anything about MAF frequency or any of that, i was looking at a flowrate table that i thought was a MAF table but i must have been mistaken. This thing is huge compared to the old TBI code. me likee alot!

im hoping to get a pretty much stock 305 into the high 14's. This springs mods include a fuel pump, the new p.c.m., subframe connectors, wonder bar, shocks and springs, FPR, possibly a 4l60e, i can't remember what else. Oh yea, headers y-pipe-test pipe to go with my existing 3 inch cat back. I'd also like to drop the 2.73's for some 3.73's. Ought to wake her up. Considering my record is a 15.65 in the 1/4 i think it's possible ill hit it this summer. The car had a cam in it when i got it but it hasn't been tuned so i imagine that with exhaust and tuning it'll really scream.
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how can the WOT delay even work? wouldn't it cause the engine to go way lean? Isn't it in effect delaying the pumpshot?

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

The WOT delay basically ramps in the PE AFR over a period of time rather then going immediatly into PE when the throttle is high enough for PE. The WOT table and PE threshold table determine this. Little too confusing to describe how it works in just a few sentences.

Ill try to remember to post up a bin tonight so you can view the MAF table and such. Youll probably only use about 2/3 of the table as it goes all the way up to around 450 grams per second.
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you cant really do much with the trans code yet. Once its commented, Ill roll the comments into the MAF source code. This will probably still be at least 4-6 months yet until its complete.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Here is my ZZ4 cam $0D MAF bin

rockit

iTrader: (3)

thanks alott guys, ill look that bin over in just a sec,

so just don't touch the trans portion of the code yet right? i assume that that the mph shift points can be messed with, but probably not the line pressure tables.

im gathering my resources for this spring project, basically going to camp out at my parents house where im storing the car this winter. Spring break week from college is going to be spent wrenching on the car with my buddies with trips to the dragstrip down the street each night to test the mods, still outlining the plan of whats going to happen andn when that week, but hopefully the car will be coming with me up to cleveland at the end of that week.

the car is mostly stock, might be interesting to do a thread to show what mods give you in the 1/4 mile peice by peice with datalogs to show exactly whats going on.
I've seen people get impressive gains with suspension mods on these cars, like i said, hoping to break into the 14's by the end of the summer.

any suggestions for this idea? i'd really like to how newer people what the TBI can do with the right mods around the motor rather then just a straight up swap.

rockit

iTrader: (3)

You REALLY smoothed out the spark tables! Are you running out of available duty cycle on the injectors, i noticed on the VE tables that your pretty flat in the 90 and 100 kpa columns nearing the upper rpms, or wait your rev limiter kicks in before then doesnt it, ah yes, nevermind. Nice of the GM engineers to give us that extra rpm to play with, most motors will never get near 6400 rpm. However what happens to your spark timing after 6000 rpm as the table ends there? i dont see an adder table for anything above that. does the PE spark take care of it, acting as an adder table to the main open throttle table, then taking over after 6000 rpm?

wow wait, am i adding wrong or are you running 40* total timing?

Is a smooth spark advance table the way to go? i would have thought it would have more variation like the VE tables, different VE equals different timing right?

ah my brain is overflowing
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one more thing, noticed you cranked up the WOT delay to 15 seconds, then dropped the threshold for WOT a few points. What was the purpose in doin that? are you avoiding traction problems by doing this?

how is pumpshot controlled in this system?