My TBI is a peice of **** and is leaking gas everywhere, my manifold is ugly/old and I just want to upgrade the TBI and manifold all together to a better than stock system.

Can someone please help me/guide me on what items I need to buy in order to make this happend? I would like to keep it below 1k since I only work at pep boys and make about 9 bucks an hour.

My Camaro now sits on the side of the street waiting for its new TBI system....

All I want to do is replace the old system with a new and better one. And I just want some guidence on where to buy the items

1991 Camaro RS 305 700R4 AUTOmatic
w/ AC but does not work

I know Summit Racing sells all these parts.. I just dont know what to get??

Summit Racing Web Site Search for TBI RESULTS!

 

lo5 tbi and edlebrock performer tbi intake manifold

 

agree with kyles. Go with an aftermarket intake like edelbrock or holley.

 

what about the actual throttle body? which one kind should I get?

 

Ok here is what I have, let me know if the items I post are correct for replacing my current stock TBI system


STARTER - 305


Throttle Body

TBI Intake Manifold

 

If you are just staying with your 305 then just buy a rebuild kit and some carb cleaner for your tb. You can do the manifold if you want to it will help some. Are you sure that it is your tbi leaking fuel every? I would probably just rebuild it though if it was me.

 

Im sure it is leaking fuel, because not only is there small pockets of fuel on the manifold and TBI, but the ASE Mechanics at PEP BOYS told me the TBI needed a rebuild since the TBI system looks very micky moused. So I though why not get a whole new manifold and TBI!!

 

You don't need a new TBI. An aftermarket one at this time would be overkill and cause you more problems than you already have. I would buy a TBI rebuild kit and go from there. You most likely have cracked seals (the thin clean round ones) that go on the end of the fuel lines. No need to spend $300+ for a whole new unit when two tiny seals are causing the problem. You could also just clean the intake when you get the leaky fuel to stop. Or if you choose you can replace the stock one. For the money you would pay on a new manifold it would be better spent on an exhaust item. I wouldn't replace what you don't have to, includin the starter you pictured above. Stick with whats wrong and then choose some mods later. You will be happier this way.

Edit: An LO5 TBI unit is the same size are an LO3 unit but with larger injectors. You don't need larger injectors yet unless you can properly tune them to work like your stockers in the PROM.

 

Well I actually do need a new starter. Since on random times when I try to start the car it makes this ticking sound and only turns on after a few trys. Well should I just replace the TBI?
I dont want the current TBI rebuilt because it has been rebuilt before and has alot of sealent and taped up wires.



Ill just get a stock starter.... some sorry *** BOSH or PROSTART starter.

 

Where is there sealant on your TBI? The TBI unit itself is nothing more than a cast peice of metal. There is no need to replace that other than the gaskets that seal it all up. It sounds like the previous owner didn't rebuild it correctly. Now would be a good time to correct their neglegence. You don't need a alrger TBI unit at this time and your motor will suffer with one if you get one. Aftermarket TBI's aren't just plug and play deals. They cause a lot of headaches if you don't know what you are getting yourself into. I would also stick with a stocker $40 replacement starter. Aftermarket ones are fancy and all, but you don't need one on your 170hp low compression motor. I would stick with a TBI rebuild kit and a stock starter. If not I see a lot of money going to waste with a lot of future dissapointment coming your way.

 

Just came back from the Technicians at my local high performence store and they just told me the same thing "REPLACE YOUR TBI"
and it wouldnt hurt to get a new manifold, but the labor would be costly and suggested I should not do it if I am not familiar with installing TBI systems and manifolds. But I do need a new Throttle Body that is certain. And no matter how much I replace my gaskets and thermostat housings IT STILL LEAKS!!! so im getting everything new.

Aftermarket Stock Starter
Holley TBI
Holley manifold

Thats what they told me to get and my car should run more better than it was before.I dont want it to go fast and it wont, I know this I just want something a bit better than stock and more robust.

 

You are setting yourself up for dissaster here. You need to take a step back and listen to the people on the TBI board who have aftermarket TBI units. Do the technitians at that shop drive around in LO3's that have aftermarket TBI units? I bet they don't. Did they tell you that you will have problems running all that fuel and air into a motor that doesn't need it? I bet they didn't. The stock prom won't just change injector constants along with compensate for the massive increase in CFM. Did they tell you that your car will be a rich pig that becomes an undrivable mess? Have they ever tuned an LO3 that really needed a larger TBI unit? I bet they haven't.

You need to find out what is leaking. Did you remove a fuel line and make sure that the clear teflon disks are present on the end of the lines? I bet that is your problem. The TBI unit will have zero effect on whether it leaks or not unless you can see that is visably cracked around the fuel ine hook-ups. It is a hunk of cast aluminum and you will be replacing it with another hunk of cast aluminum. You can replace the fuel lines fittings if they happened to be cracked. It would make a lot more sense to spend less to get your car to run the way it should. No one likes to dump hundreds of dollars into their LO3 only for it to be undrivable with miss matched parts that won't add power or retain it in its stock running condition. If you are set on doing an intake and TBI swap at least inspect your TBI. If you can't figure out what is wrong with it now how do you expect to get it up and running with miss matched parts?

 

Agreed. My bet is you need a rebuild, but since the techs make their money and "good standing" with management from recommending unneccessarily new parts, they said "replace" instead of "rebuild". Sounds like a rebuild is a great idea, but honestly, unless you remove the TBI and visibly see a crack in the body, a rebuild kit is better and much less expensive. I pulled mine, disassembled, cleaned & rebuild it in about an hour. It would have taken 15 minutes to replace it with a new unit, but I have more time than money right now...& it is VERY true that if you replace the TBI with something that does not CLOSELY follow OEM specs, you're gonna need to start burning PROMS to make the car operate worth a crap and forget about ever passing emissions unless you really, really know how to electronically tune the new TBI.

 

hey man... i DO have an LO5, and i DO run more horsepower than stock... and guess what TBI i use??? the LO3 one... i got bigger injectors for it, but its still the stock unit... and another thing... i am a shadetree mechanic... i go to an auto tech school... anything that is partially messed up, you always reccomend for replacement... its a way to make more money for the shop who's doing it.... trust us and especially trust shifty... he knows his crap... take a look at his car if you dont believe him... your TBI is fine, replace the manifold if you want, but it sounds like you just need a rebuild kit...

 

If you all have had bad/negative experiances with High Perforemence parts on a 305 sorry, thank you all for your input I will get a stock TBI unit and manifold I need it brand new!!!! as I said I dont need it for racing!I just want something that I can drive on the freeway with for about 2 hours without having problems!!! Please some one guide me on where I can get these parts at!!! Everytime I try to turn on my car it becomes a hassle turning it on it barely cranks now, the starter is giving out and there is black smoke coming out the rear and there is a heavy sent of fuel in the air and also OVERHEATING problems!!! it seems to go from around 120 to 220 with in 5 minutes of just sitting there.. something tells me im going to be needing a new radiator and a dual fan set up for maximum cooling.. please some one guide me to these parts some how!!?? please? I only have this car and I have to take the bus to work and back!!

 

that Holley unit is nice and shiny. looks good under a chrome air cleaner. LOL.

 

Ok I am glad you get staying with a stock style TBI. Take that with a grain of salt though because the one you get could need to be rebuilt as well. A rebuild kit is still the way to go IMHO. Why do you need another intake manifold? What is wrong with your stocker? If an intake hasn't been removed and damaged it should be as good as new. If anything I would pull it and clean it out. Ensure all the water passages are clean and free of gunk and crud that could be restricting coolant flow. You may want to have it hot tanked to get it back to its factory condition. Doing this will also put new intake gaskets in place. I bet your cooling problems are just oriented around an old gunked up system. I would change the thermostat and hoses, flush the radiator and make sure the coolant passages in the intake are clean as described above. Check the pressure on the radiator cap along making sure your air damn is in place. Adding extra cooling devices on a stock motor is only a band aid for a problem that may exist. You would be hiding something that is causing your problem. Remember the normal cooling cylce for these cars is for the water to reach 220° before the fan kicks on and brings it back down. It is a constant heat cyle in this manor. As long as you don't overheat you should be fine.

These cars are getting older and older and you therefore need to maintenance them. Passages and such get filled with deposits and you can't ignore regular maintenance procedures.

 

The Problem is that my fan has been mickey moused and turns on as soon as the key is in the ignition, so it is always running. Ill go take pics right now. Ill show you what is wrong and why I need both new intake and TBI.

 

Pictures would be good as to why your manifold is no good. Your fan is on all the time because your fan switch (passenger side head) is broken. The fan will run all the time in the event that the switch fails. You need a new switch which is like 9 bucks.

 

Im going to go take the pics right now... ONE NEW PROBLEM NOW!

WHERE AM I GOING TO GET THESE STOCK PARTS??????? I tried dealerships and they wanted 1119.00 for the TBI unit and 459.99 for the intake manifold! they're smoking~!!!!!!

can you help me shifty???

 

Shifty's Quote:

Ok I am glad you get staying with a stock style TBI. Take that with a grain of salt though because the one you get could need to be rebuilt as well. A rebuild kit is still the way to go IMHO. Why do you need another intake manifold? What is wrong with your stocker? If an intake hasn't been removed and damaged it should be as good as new.

rebuild is the answer here. if you want to go BIG have the TB rebushed.

 

here it is someone put this grey hard stuff on it and the cables are all taped up

 

on the right bottom side of the intake manifold you can see that it is leaking oil.

 

I meant LEFT bottom side.. sorry

 

Show me some pictures first. I want to see why you think you need a new intake. Even if you get a TBI unit from a junk yard it may need rebuilt. I don't want to repeat myself anymore about just rebuilding your stock unit. I need you to show me why you need a new one. Just saying it leaks isn't helping your cause. We are trying to help you. Lets sit back and dig into this. Grab a camera and start posting some pics in this thread.

EDIT: I see you started to post pictures before I posted this.

 

Your pcitures aren't working. You can email me them if you have problems.

 

 

hit refresh on your browser they work correctly.

thats where it is leaking, and you can see why I need a new TBI unit

 

Dammit my camera ran out of batteries!!!

OK here is the problems, lets get to the bottom of this

1. My Camaro takes a while to start it clicks and clicks with every attempt I turn the key (I think that is the starter messing up)
2. It is gushing out fuel from the TBI holes and is getting all over the place.
3. Strong smell of fuel.
4.Black smoke sometimes comes out of my tail pipes.
5.The Thermostat housing is leaking radiator fluid and my manifold is leaking oil.
6. When I do get the car to turn on it idles at about 500 rpm's not 1k like it is suppose to.
7. Tempature rises quickly if car sits there (Obviously the thermostat is causing this since it is leaking also the fan is always on)
8. Service Engine Light has been on since I bought the car, When I prepare to turn off the car it stays on for like 3-6 seconds after I take off the key from the ignition, and when it shuts off it makes this ugly sound that sounds like its blowing off a mist of water (pssssssshhh)
9. I cannot find any replacement parts!
10. I can only spend less than 1000.00 Right now on repairing this
11. PLEASE HELP ME AT LEAST FIND THE PARTS!!!

This is what I have done to the vehicle since I bought it nov 04

Rebuilt Transmission
Installed Exhaust (FlowMaster)
New High output spark plugs ACCEL
New Spark Plugs
New Distributor Cap
Oil Change (last done about 5 months ago)

I DO NOT WANT TO SELL THIS CAR ITS MY FIRST AND ONLY CAR!!!

 

I seriously want your help! But you must tell me where to get this TBI unit.. Ill clean out the manifold and keep the current one, I know I need a new TBI unit! this is certain.

 

Slow down and I will try to help. Your pictures did not work with either web browser that I use but it may be my PC. Can you email me the pics so I can at least see them.

You have a bad starter and you can assume you need to replace it. Stock ones are like $40.

Is it comming from the bores (that spray into the intake) or is it comming from the fuel lines that enter into the rear of the unit?

Because you are leaking fuel and most likely running rich

Sounds like your intake gaskets are shot. This does not mean the intake is bad. Gaskets are basically paper and will wear out and fall apart over time. A hunk of aluminum will not fall apart.

 

I forgot to add one

You need to find out what code is being thrown. You can do this with a paper clip. A quick search should tell you how to do it. Your car is also dieseling which can mean a lot of things. Namely that the car is severly overheating or that your timing is horrendously off.

 

Thanks, expect an e-mail from

91camaro@gmail.com

 

If you don't mind I will post the pictures incase anyone else had problems viewing them.

 

In this picture you have pointed out the front corner of the intake manifold. At this location the intake manifold gasket meets the RTV sealant that runs along the china wall. The two overlap to create a seal there. Your seal has been compromised and will need to be fixed. This requires you to pull the intake, clean all mating surfaces, apply new gaskets and RTV, and be on your way. It sounds like your timing needs to be reset anyways so this is a good time to pull the distributor.

 

alright

 

The arrow on the left is where the RTV on the china wall meets the intake manifold gasket. You can see a little bit of both in this picture as I have not cleaned the mating surfaces yet on this motor.

 

You have coolant on top of the intake because the thermostat gasket has also failed and the pressure is forcing coolant out.

EDIT: Kdrolt beat me to it.

 

The coolant leak Shifty described also means that the cooling system can't hold pressure -- so the coolant is overheating. Solve the leak and you will probably solve the overheating problem.

The leaky TBI needs a rebuild. You need a rebuild kit, not a new TBI unit. I rebuilt a Rochester Quadrajet (that's a carburator btw) when I was in high school, with no prior automotive skills or training, so you should be able to handle a TBI rebuild.

There are inexpensive ways to solve all of your problems. Most people here, at least the few that are replying, know them.

Then there are expensive ways that MIGHT solve your problems. New GM TBI + new GM intake is one expensive option, as you already learned. There are others. We could have told you that, but instead a few people here have instead tried to tell you what you need to do to fix things without spending more than you need to.

It's up to you to decide which way to go.

EDIT: Shifty mentioned china walls. He means the top-front and top-rear walls of the lifter valley of the engine, by similarity to the Great Wall in China. The analogy is obvious to many here, but maybe not to you. You need to clean them so that they are free of any old gasket or sealer, then use a bead of black high-temp RTV along the top of each wall, and along with new intake-to-head manifold gaskets. You also need to make sure the mating underside of the intake manifold is equally clean. There's probably detailed instructions elsewhere on this site if you search for intake manifold leak

 

In this picture I am not sure what to look for. I see no evidence of fuel leaking. That is not to say it isn't there. You may have to highlight the photo for me and re-send it my way.

What lies under that tape? Are the wires ruined? If so you can have those replaced or fixed. A new/used TBI unit would not have fixed this because it is part of your wire harness.

 

Ok so what do I do now? Where can I get this stuff you all speak of??? I dont know where to get this rebuild kit and intake manifold gasket

PEP BOYS where I work at does not carry this gasket and also dont you have to torque the manifold? I dont know how to do that..

 

I found this web site

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/partsvoice/frameset.cfm

can I get it from there?

 

lason found this http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/cata...&parttype=6140

 

Pep boys should have everything you need. If they do not then I would never go there again. The TBI rebuild kits are good for about 20 different GM vehicles produced over a 10+ year span. Go to any autozone and tell them you need a TBI rebuild kit for a '91 camaro RS with the 305 TBI. Then tell them you need an intake manifold gasket set. The gasket set will include new gaskets for the intake, distributor and thermostat. Also pick up a tube of black or gray RTV sealant and a tube of thread sealant. Before you do any of that read the tech data on intake manifold installation and removal in the LT1 cam digest. There are also part numbers for the intake gasket set in that article.

You can install an intake manifold in your driveway with a basic socket set. You do not necessarily need a torque wrench because you only want to tighten an intake till it is tight but not too tight. You'll understand when you get there.

I would spend a lot of time reading the LT1 cam digest so that you know how to properly install and remove/install the distributor, intake, TBI unit, and gaskets.

Your problem just went from $1000 to $50 or less.

 

Now we wait till I get paid and I will go from there. Thanks for the help.

Where can I get those plugs for the TBI to plug up the hoe (highlighted in yellow) and how do I go about removing the tar or grey hardening stuff by the injectors as high lighted in red

 

and where do I get those wires with a plastic ends on em (highlighted in red)

 

My injector connectors were melted & brittle from age & overheating lots over a summer when one of my friends owned the car. I got the replacements from a salvage yard for free...I think. I get a lot there, so they waived the $2 or $3 fee.

I might just be crazy, but I don't see the problem that's highlighted in yellow.

 

Things are starting to make a bit more sense here. I would first unravel that tape and clean out that funk that appears to be shoved around the injector harness connections. If you have a split wire you should be able to repair it. If you are uncertain about doing it have one of your technical buddies solder and or splice a new piece in. As far as those connectors go I would try to salvage the ones you have. Your other option is to go to a yard and look for any TBI powered vehcile and snip off the section of harness you need. Yours doesn't look damaged beyaond repair but the tape could be hiding something.

As for those holes I am dumbfounded. I cannot think of any reason why someone would drill those out. Is there evidence that it had been tampered with? It may just be the picture but it looks as if one of those holes is marred from a bit. Do those holes go all the way through or are they just cavity's. If in fact they are drilled and fuel is comming out than you do need a new TBI unit. What has happened to yours is so out of the ordinary that the only way to convince us was with a picture. Now you can see why we needed more evidence . I would call around to your local junk yards and look for another TBI unit. I would look for a '91 or '92 unit seeing how they changed the TPS style for those years. I cannot remember if just the sensor changed or if both the sensor and the casting boss changed with it. Maybe someone can verify that for you. You can also find lots of random TBI parts on ebay. You should be able to find a used unit without to much trouble.

Here is your pic for others to see

 

Here is a closeup of my TBI unit that shows those two indents being solid.

 

You will also need to replace the TBI gasket. This will also need to be replaced when you remove the TBI unit.

so break down of what you need to buy when you go to Advance Auto Parts, Napa, or AutoZone.

Change the starter - $40
Buy intake manifold and TBI gaskets $20
RTV and thread sealant - $7
Gasket remover (buy the chemical and a scraper with a razor) - $10 +
New coolant (flush the whole system) - $20+
TBI unit from ebay, TGO classifieds, or local yard - Free to $30

Borrow a timing light from your tech buddies

Follow the intake removal and installation procedures outlines in the LT1 cam digest.


You are now out around $100 for maintenance that needs to be done that will have your car running the way it should.