steve8586iroc

Just trying to see how much interest there would be and what kind of price would be far to charge someone wanting to learn to tune their own chips. I personally would like to learn online sense I can't afford to go to school or drive to another area of the country to be tutored by a RBob or a JP or a Grumpy ect... Even thought that would be great. Just a simple get you started type class would help a lot of people out and maybe flatten the learning curve out a little bit.

Steve

adambros

iTrader: (2)

Interesting idea . . . I am curious though, what makes you think you would learn anything from an 'online class' that isn't already spelled out for you in the DIY PROM stickies ?

steve8586iroc

I think a lot of people have a hard time getting the correct info off the data logs and into the tunning program that it scares them off or makes them wait for the self tuning ecm. If they had a picture to look at, say a screen shot of someones datalog, with the area that is to be changed circled or highlighted, and then another screen shot of the tuning program with the same area to to be changed, shown and a discription of what is going on and how to make the changes in the tuning program, might be a little easier to understand. It may not take much for some of us to catch on, then again it might take some of use longer.

Steve

steve8586iroc

Maybe someone could add some screen shots to one of the stickies in the DIY-ECM board. I don't know if it would help anyone or not, thats why I started this thread. Hopefully there will be more imput on this with some better suggestions.

Steve

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

I agree man.

The DIY-PROM board is way over my head, and if you ask a beginner question everybody say, "Go read the stickies a few times. . . .blah, blah blah" Plus, you have to fight the anti-TBI stigma that exist around here as well.


Good idea bro'

Gladstoneiroc

iTrader: (1)

steve8586iroc, I think you make a valid point when wanting screenshots and explainations. I very new to the tuning world and have been partially afraid and partially dumb to the world on some aspects of tuning. I mean I can tune the VE table by plugging and playing in excel and back into tuner pro, but working with timing, throttle response, and reducing knock are another story. Maybe a "tune your 8746 cdrom", something producable for a dollar or so and sold for 5 or 10.

Ramair21

iTrader: (3)

Yeah i Agree too. I get scared just thinking about that. for example what if i mess something up while i do the burn and put it in my car and blow something up. Just need more help!!!

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

QUOTE: I personally would like to learn online.

BUT PLEASE NO HOMEWORK.

SchwarzCamaroRS

im down!! someone get er dun and lern us some tbi tunage! i Vote Jon!!!

BronYrAur

iTrader: (1)

I think getting one of the guys to teach something like this would be a big problem. These guys have busy lives and I don't think would be willing to put that much time into teaching the information that's already out there.

I like the idea of screenshots though, I could see that helping a lot of guys out. I'll see if I can get some of those, but its hard when my old as$ laptop probably couldn't handle this new fangled thing called the internet.

3.8transam is putting together a good sticky though on teh DIY PROM board. You guys should all check it out, and start reading the stuff thinking that its NOT over your head because most of it isn't believe me.

Start Here

Be SURE to read this, Helps guys in your situation

Now, in the main link, focus on Chapter 5, the 730 stuff. 730 tuning stuff is almost identical to our 8746/7747 stuff because tehy're both speed density, so almost all of the tuning methods apply.

Hopefully he'll update that with some TBI stuff. Some of the best tuners on this site actually work with TBI and use TBI a ton, so on the Prom board the anti-TBI stuff is usually gone. RBob, Grumpy, JPrevost, Dimented24x7, Dewey316, these are all guys that you have on your side with TBI tuning. Lot's of help out there, you just can't be afraid to jump into it.

Later,
Motivational Speaker Jim

3.8TransAM

Sounds like you TBI boys have a project for yourselves dont you? :-)

I will be more than willing to add it to the "bible" and help where I can. Notice the sticky for cntributing information and articles only has a whoppping 5 replies? I will try and add information as soon as I can verify it and have time to.

Main problem with something like this is?????????????

U guessed ot, no one shuts up or puts up :-)

Like half the projects on the board..

I have been debating doing something similiar using $8D as a base and explaining it out a function at a time.....

But with life, other cars and trying to find a new job, we always dont have time for tons of extras, its bad enough condensing all the info and rewriting the hypertext. I didnt even mention spelling errors I have fixed(I know i'm not perfect but some are horrendous and make me smile).

I know Rbob has some TBI stuff coming for it as well as some new MAF stuff as well...

Your best bet is to start working on it and placing your results on the board, one at a time and go from there. Various members have dont it for 32bcode and $8D style stuff so now its your turn... I dont use it so I cant tell u past the basics.

EDIT: I found this post also, some hacking and cutting to flesh it out and it could be the basis of a conerted TBI tuning effort. Lots of good info. If someone can deliever an edited post it ould be expanded upon
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=264992

later and my 2 cents
Jeremy

BronYrAur

iTrader: (1)

I hear you Jeremy, hopefully some more guys will step up with some stuff. I'm going to try to put some stuff together, but I'm not really sure what people here are looking for, nobody seemed to even read my last post besides you. Hopefully, in the summer when I have some more free time, I can put together some things for it, but I'm not all that seasoned in teh Prom world either.

Glad RBob is giving you some stuff for TBI though, his contributions are always great. Let's get some opinions in here then of what some people want to see happen as far as posted info!

BronYrAur

iTrader: (1)

Well, Jeremy, might want to throw this link in the TBI section of that post. I've found this thread really informative and helpful, it ended with a good solid answer, no questions left unanswered.

Tuning Issue

Formula4Speed

I'd like to see a sticky made with some screen shots and basic break down of what the person is doing step by step. For example, a screen shot of the datalog info for the stock engine then circle what gets changed and how they decided what needed to be changed. I personally learn best by seeing something being done, which I can't do with the current stickies.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

Oh, now I know what the problem is. . . that is not only confusing, but boring as well.

What can I say. . . I'm not a computer guy.

I would rather have one of you PROM guys around here so I can give you some of my green.

BronYrAur

iTrader: (1)

Well, that wasn't really a basic thread, but I figured I'd point it out for the writeup.

But, reading it gets a point across, you don't need to be a computer guy. Just sift through the code talk and don't worry about it. But, the main thing to take away from it was that he needed more and more and more fuel even though it didn't seem like it at times. That supports that a well built engine with TBI needs a TON of fuel and that, fuel limitations are the biggest concern when building a TBI motor. BMmonte had a decent high 13's 350 with BBC injectors running pretty high pressure, that should show how much fuel is required and why it is necessary to jack up the fuel pressure on a build like that.

BMmonteSS

That was a great learning experience. Rbob really helped me figure out what was going on. That problem made me take a step back and look at the big picture to really see what was going on. I've been meaning to throw that particular bin back in with the WB hooked up to get a better idea of exactly what was going on when the injectors were going static.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Wow, I hadnt even started burning proms when that thread was posted.

Like I say, the computer side of things will be the least of your worries. I could get a monkey to type in numbers and stick a chip in a burner. The huge issue at hand is tuning the engine. That part can be extremly difficult at times. You wont spend much time asking the guys around here how to stick a chip in a programmer, youll be asking what to put into that chip to get the motor to run right, and that cant possibly be covered in one thread, and even the archives here at TGO cant possibly cover every aspect of engine tuning. Start out small and work your way up. After a short time, you wont even notice the whole computer thing, youll mainly be engrossed with tuning the motor to get what you want out of it. Take your time, take notes, and archive all your old bins. I went from not knowing a damn thing, to doing my own custom efi system, all with the info available here at TGO.

BMmonteSS

Man that makes me feel slow I have a head start on you and I haven't even wrote a traction control routine yet

The basic steps to burning a chip and sticking them in your ecm isn't bad, of course you have hicups some times, we are dealing with computers here. I think where a lot of people have problems is that they don't fully or even partially understand the fundamentals of tuning an engine no mater what form of induction is on the motor. I had a pretty good grasp of how to get a carb to give me exaxtly what I wanted before I got into chip tuning, some guys have never tuned a motor in their life, and to learn how through chip tuning would be a huge task. I spent most of my time trying to translate what I wanted done mechanically into my bin. I will say that chip tuning has tought me more about engines than any book or other experience. There's nothing like making changes and being able to instantly see the results through a half dozen sensors.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Ive had previous programming experience so that proved to be invaluable to getting up the steep learning curve. Assembly would have been more difficult to get into w/o it.

GM actually implemented some spark control routines in some of the tbi ecms. I imagine some of them could easily be adapted for that use.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

So true... My PPII doesnt always work right with my laptop.