Avenger007

I was hunting around the internet and found a company that sells their own custom crate TBI creation. They claim 360hp/400tq which is pretty good numbers. Heres some stats and let me know what you think. The whole thing is $2700

Details:

Vortec Heads – performance built:

GM Vortec castings – thermally cleaned, checked for crack & flatness & painted w/ high temp engine paint
Valve guides cut for .550” lift, (new) .550” lift springs, (new) hardened keepers, GM light weight retainers
5 angle valve job, bowl blended, and chrome moly screw in rocker studs
(new) Stainless Steel swirl polished proflow 1-piece valves 1.94/1.50, (new) positive valve seals

Short Block 355cu-in – performance built (good to 450hp):
GM 638 roller casting block w/ 1-piece rear seal, roller cam setup – thermailly cleaned, deck & mains checked, painted
Sonic tested for acceptable core shift, Brass freeze plugs installed, oil galleries chased
Bored/Honed and setup with (new) Hypereutectic flat top pistons, moly piston rings
Crank turned w/ large radius journals similar to LT1 and LS1 design
GM powder metal rods (reconditioned), (new) heavy duty rod, main, and cam bearings

(new) high volume oil pump w/ welded pickup & melling heavy duty oil pump shaft

(new) performance timing chain kit, Grade 8 oil pump bolt and balancer bolt
Balanced to factory specifications (will handle up to 450hp)

ZZ4 Roller Cam: (new) GM ZZ4 roller cam: 208/221 in/ex duration at .050”, .474/.510” lift in/ex, 112LSA

TBI Vortec intake included (new): bored to 2” for use with 50mm TBI, or a BBC unit – no EGR

Custom PROM - $150– email for details

Other:
Assembled w/ (new) head bolts, Fel-pro gasket set, and new hardware where needed
Performance 8” balancer & (new) Vortec composite timing cover
9.5:1 compression ratio. This will run on mid grade but premium is recommended
Install, startup, and break-in checklist included

All that is needed is a distributor (setup for roller cam), water pump, exhaust, 50mm TBI unit, injectors, and other misc. hardware

yt500pmd

website?

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

I would like to see how much PROM work they did to prove that they have it dialed in. 360hp is doable but it is not typically seen on your run of the mill crate. Chances are this is just another potential 400hp package stuck in a poorly tuned and dialed in TBI shell netting 300hp at best. They are littered over the internet and ebay.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

It's not emissions approved.

But with a cam of that size, IF the chip is worth a damn, then I would say it's possible. I know of atleast one guy with a much smaller cam making 320 HP, so with a cam roughly .050 bigger I would say it's possible.

z71stroker

sounds like one of those TBI crate motors on ebay, theres 2-3 versions up for auction right now.

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

shifty, don't be so quick to discount it. 360 hp at the crank with a 355, vortec heads, a 2" tbi and proper chip tuning is definitely doable. stick a set of 1.6 rockers on there and you'd have enough lift to make those numbers.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Yea I guess you are right. Typically you don't see TBI crate engines with decent parts. Thats why I was quick to jump the gun. This one has a bit larger cam than the GM 330 HO crate so it should make a solid 300+ hp. I know JP says he is at about 300 hp with his GM vortec crate when it is rated for 330. I wonder how good the GM vortec intake really is. None the less, that motor at least has good parts in it and doesn't appear to be one of those advertised '400hp' TBI motors with smogger heads, weak, cam all on a stock chip.

Mongoose

iTrader: (2)

So where do we find it?

z71stroker

Still, you need know what the mains plastigaged at, what the rod side clearances are at the very least, even though he could make them up with perfect clearances easily since you will probably not tear the motor down far enough to check his work. then you have a high volume oil pump, do you have screw in oil plugs on the front of the block? I've seen bad knock ins pop out before when 70-80psi of oil hits em on a cold day. And that's not a GMPP vortec intake, it's a marine vortec tbi intake w/o egr right? the only company I knew that had those made for them was crusader, he has a name or logo blurred up on the up close pics he has for the separate intakes he sells for $299. The really sell new for ~$180. Try to call him on the phone if you can, I have his # if it's not in his auction, he lives 60 miles north of me. He's a ***** in his e-mails, I got tough on him for trying to charge me $21 to ship a TB base 60 miles and i was banned from his auctions. I don't like that sell at an appealing price and then shove the shipping up as far as possible to make money crap, I can ship a cylinder head to oregon from tx for $20. I saw a dyno where a 268h and xe262 made +25hp/13tq over the zz4 roller cam in a zz4 355hp crate engines, lift isn't everything. But who trusts a magazine? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...sPageName=WDVW
Note - short block built good to 450hp with powdered metal rods, my powdered metal truck rods look like toothpicks compared to my 6" scat 4340 forged rods, and they are only rated to 500hp.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

My dads 97 vortec van 350 snapped a rod into two pieces at 50,000 miles. That was stock and unabused.

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

that guy, (horsepowerguy@sbcglobal.net) does A LOT of custom TBI work, and he knows what he's talking about. I talked to him at length over a year ago when i found one of his bored out tbi units on ebay. I bought one, but haven't used it yet. gunnyhighway, however, has bought one and is running it on his camaro. i'm pretty sure he's happy with it. i never found him to be anything but courteous and helpful. don't take my word for it, though. when someone on ebay has 750 feedbacks and has a positive feedback rating of 99.9%, they clearly have a lot of satisfied customers.

z71stroker

what does that have to do with him building engines though? He hasn't sold any yet and has no feedback or past history for building any engines. I know he does a great job boring TB's. I'm was talking about stock pm rods in my other post also, I know companies have come out with new pm rods capable of handling 550+hp at 6000-7000rpm.

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

and how do you know he doesn't build good engines? so far as i know, he makes good on his claims. my experiences with him, the experiences a friend of mine had with him and his feedback scores on ebay lead me to conclude he's a reputable guy who makes good on his claims. you're the one passing judgement on him because, as you said, "he's a ***** in his emails" and you felt he overcharged you on shipping. sorry you had a bad experience with him, but mine has been the opposite.

as far as the rods go, i've made over 400 hp reliably with the stock rods and crank. whether they hold up or not has a lot more to do with the rpms you turn than the horsepower you make. well set-up stock rods and cranks are good to 5500-6000 rpm all day long

z71stroker

it says PM rods re-conditioned, where does it say prepared or "well setup" for 400hp and 5-6k rpm sustained wot with atleast arp rod bolts? it doesn't - and you never assume someone makes a good anything; thats asking to get ripped off; a 450hp motor at 6k rpm puts alot more stress on rods than a 250hp motor at 6k rpm, so how does hp/tq not matter? and I assume any 450hp sbc would be rev'ing to around 6000rpm. And the motor is only claiming 360hp - I was stating he made a point to say short block built for 450hp - and I said that short block was not good for 450hp .....

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

where does it say NOT well set up? again, i've had good experiences with this guy, i'd take him at his word. why are you so intent on bad-mouthing him? i'm beginning to understand why you can't bid on his auctions anymore.

and clearly, the torsional stress put on the rotating assembly by higher horsepower and (more importantly), torque are part of the equation; but, barring a serious power adder, the major factor in bottom-end reliability is still rpm.

and saying a short block is good to 450 hp is merely a statement of a short block's ability to handle those power numbers. put a performer rpm air gap, demon 750 and a bigger cam on that short block and you'd easily make 400 + hp. swap on a set of etec 170s as well and you'll be right at 450.

you should really read things more carefully and/or learn more about them before you start shooting from the hip; especially when you're going to start name-calling and questioning peoples' honesty.

z71stroker

Wow, you never saw, or lost the original point of my 1st post somewhere in your rambling. I stated facts, and a personal opinion from an actual conversation I had with him, and all I insisted was that the person intent of buying the engine ASK the seller what the clearances where, and get more specific info on the build, I never said "he doesn't build good engines", so stop putting words in my mouth, and I can't tell if yor trying to defend the seller or PM rods after this last ramble about cam/carb/heads. You keep saying "where does it not say" please back something up instead of repeating yourself in every single post, because I don't care if you think he's a great guy from your "dealings", because you bought a $180 part since I never said he wasn't a good guy. I said he was a ***** in his e-mails, and he should be called on the phone. My opinion from a "dealing" with him. Take your own advice please, and actually read the post before you reply.

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

you were the one who pointed out the discrepancy between his claim of 360 hp and a short block "good for 450 hp"

quote:
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Originally posted by z71stroker
And the motor is only claiming 360hp - I was stating he made a point to say short block built for 450hp
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a short block that's "good to 450 hp" is just that. this particular ENGINE is rated at 360 hp by him due to the cam and induction bolted onto the short block. my point was a different cam and induction bolted ontothat same short block could easily make 450 hp. he wasn't claiming his crate engine made 450, he's claiming the short block could handle 450 hp.

by the way, i took 45 seconds and emailed him ... it does have arp rod bolts. you could have learned the same if you taken the time to ask a question before you started your diatribe.

and finally ... ME rambling? scroll up and read those posts of yours. first, they're mostly wrong, and second, they're like some bizarre hunter s. thompson lsd-induced political harangues. puh-lease!

try posting again after you graduate from your high school auto shop class and pass remedial english

Avenger007

Sorry for the delay in responses guys. Its been a while since i was on these boards. Anyways, hopefully no one is too upset with each other.

The link for the engine was here:
http://stores.ebay.com/Xtremefi_W0QQsspagenameZl2QQtZkm
I guess they have sold it now, but it was through that dealer. The specs were just copied and pasted from the page.

z71stroker

You respond to one question in the post, and continue to ramble. I wouldn't e-mail the seller about rods, since my original post asked the buyer to make sure to find out these details for himself. You have been and are emphasizing and stressing points on arguments that I never brought up. Discrepancy? I'd ask what are you smoking then? I'm glad I have to repeat myself for you so much, I said it did not matter if the short block, was or was not good for 450hp and there was no point arguing about it since the motor claims 360hp, and the rods wouldn't be stressed to 450hp. I made a small note - stock rods in a 450hp performance oriented app would most likely fail. There's alot of pm rods that don't fail, and alot that do fail - I'd rather not take that chance. Before I go and graduate from high school; why don't you show some restraint and not add personal insults to the end of your posts? I apologize to Avenger for looking out for his best interests, I am not so eager to let someone throw $2700 at an ebay auction as yourself.

90RS305

Back on topic guys. From this point forward there will be NO refrencing another person's post derogatorily. If someone has an opinion and you don't agree, thats fine, but let us know what you don't agree with, not what you think of the person that posted it. If you MUST express you displeasures, keep in in PMs.

Bruce (90RS305)

Avenger007

Not to favor anyones side, but I too have some personal accounts with that vendor, and they havent always been superb. I emailed the guy asking about making a 2" bored vortec intake for the proper heads in the tb, afpr, intake package and I recieved a rather snobbish reply stating "check the bid, the package only comes with the standard intake which I mentioned numerous times throughout the page." and he failed to answer the other couple questions I asked in the same email. I have, however, purchased a few items from him still and they were all great products and recieved directly on time. Overall, I can understand his positive rating.
just thought I would throw a couple pennies down.

As for the engine, I am not interested in that vortec personally. I posted the info just to pass it on to someone who might be looking for a nice build and for you all to comment on its parts. I think it looks like a good package overall. No bad intentions. And yes I too would be sceptical of its 360hp claims unless good chipwork can be done to get there.

JPrevost

Custom chip for 360hp... "needs injectors" but he doesn't say what size. Thanks, nice try, come again when you've got something other than claims and (most likely) desktop dyno simulation numbers.
Not to mention all those parts listed are rather "cheap" for today's standards. I'm not impressed.