del91_305

Does anyone have any comments on the K&N air lid? I was just curious as to whether or not there worth the money

Poncho Villa

Did some searching on this myself...Most seem to say it is not really worth it. If you have an open element with a K&N filter, that should be enough, especially since the TBI draws more from the sides than the top.

I put on a K&N filter on my open element, to replace the paper one, and holy cow what a difference! What also really improved performance is a set of new plug wires, really noticed it going up hills. So I would suggest spending the money on plug wires, or something else. Wouldn't surprise me if the lid helps though--if you try it let me know. If it does nothing, get a refund.

Dewey316

the top of the element is so close to the top of the hood why would you want to? if you had a cowl hood, then maybe. but with a flat hood, the only gain you would see, is the lighter pocket book.

del91_305

I dont know dude, i am just getting opinions

Dewey316

the element on a 14x3 air filter is HUGE in comparison to the breathing needs of our engines.

90RS305

Well right there that would help his race weight and give him better times, right?

Actually, if your car is anything like mine, and you still have the insulation on the underside of your hood, then the open element (with a drop base and the spacer ring) actually hit the insulation. So right there, does you NO good. I forger who it was, but someone told me that a mechanic told him to drill holes in the top of his stock air-cleaner to gain better air flow. I lost a LOT of faith in humanity that day....

Bruce (90RS305)

Benm109

I'm running the K+N Xstream Air Lid, and I like it. It's not going to give you a major "seat of the pants" feel, at least it didn't to me. But, it is functional on my car. I'm running a drop-base with the spacer ring and a 14"X3" K+N filter and I have 1.25" of clearance between the lid and the bottom of the hood.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

I too run this lid but only for looks. Chrome air lids look tacky on most 14x3 elements and I wanted something to match the filter itself. Your engine will never need more air than a 14x3 can privide so this is a bscially "looks" only mod.

Zrated83

iTrader: (17)

What if you have a cowl hood, would it be worth the money to buy? I have about a 3 inch cowl hood.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

It may be but you are not going to really benifit from this as you would from a carb. The injector pod of the TBI forces air in through the side and a venturi is created drawing air in as such. Even with the lid you I doubt the air flow charactersitics would change much. A cowl hood would provide more air to the engine bay, but I am not sure how much would acutally make it into the TBI.

91RedFirebird

you could alway get a sheat of tin and some weather striping. cut a hole for the tbi and bolt it to the back of the engine compartment put on an air filter and a open air cleaner top over it, bend up the sides and use the weather striping to seal off the cowl.

90_WS6_Formula

if for some reason water is able to make it on top of the lid (like on pontiacs with formula hoods) then it will suck water in

91RedFirebird

make a few drain holes

90_WS6_Formula

I forgot to mention how much I love rubber sealant

86z/92rs

Regarding K&N air lid, just a warning, I saw a guy install one on his 90 Firebird TBI. Goes to start her up and next thing you know, his lid collapsed into his TBI. He left a plastic bag on top of the lid when he fired up the engine. The vacuum created caused the lid to collapse. Thought I would post this so this mishap does not happen again.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Wow. My lid is actually more ridgid than the thin stamped junk that came on the summit air cleaner. I find this hard to believe but anything is possible I geuss.

Dewey316

lessson #1

do not wrap air cleaner assembly in platic.

Poncho Villa

Question: So does the TBI draw in more air from one side than the other? More from the sides than the top, I gather.

Also, read an article in Hot Rod Magazine, I believe, testing various K&N setups. Best was fiter, filter lid and a stubstack, although it was with a carb--so as mentioned above, the lid might make less of a difference for TBI, however it should still reduce the overall resistance of intake air, IMHO.

Here's a pic of another alternative.

90Formula305

YOU WITH THAT PICTURE.....Dude i want that setup now, how/where did you get it seriously i was thinking of running a Kn open element but if i can get cold air intake on my tbi that would be sweet.

Cadillac

I'm not exactly sure how much cold air is really getting into the intake on that setup.

I'll take my 14X3.

Poncho Villa

That's what I've got, bro. The 14X3 K&N, on a Spectre drop down air cleaner assembly. Works really good, total improvement, and I will be glassing in a long cowl induction scoop to feed it cold air. That would be even better.

I had a duct rigged to blow cold air under the hood, but it was under the front bumper and was blowing dirt all over my motor, being so close to the ground. Still felt the power though, especially at 90mph, so I KNOW the open element wants fresh outside the hood air for maximum boost.

So now that I'm into the open element for sixty bucks or so, I'm gonna keep it and do the cowl induction. As for the Cold Air Induction picture, it was from this page: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...PcY_BIN_Stores

Just look up TBI cold air intake on ebay, there are lots.

I'm not advertising by the way, and I don't vouch for this setup, although another thread mentioned it, said it fit on a third gen Camaro no prob, and worked great. You could even extend the pipe down farther, and rig a duct etc. to deflect air from under the car all up into the hizzle.

Poncho Villa

Here's the bada$$ cowl hood, around 500 bucks, when you can just buy the scoop for fifty. K&N lid under there would be breathing lots of cold O2!

90Formula305

what would i need to set up an open element filter, cause theres lots of vaccum hoses and plugs and all that crap?

Cadillac

Not a whole lot.

Go here and read up: TGO Open Element Thread

This was my first mod.

Cadillac

Poncho... that's a nice hood. Personally, I'm a fan of the Ram Air types shown here. Hell, I'd behappy with a stock TA hood with the louvers on the front and the vents on the back side.

Dewey316

I don't know how much cold air you would get with the filter located there.

Most of the air coming into the engine bay is hot. GM was smart enough to direct air to flow to the radiator. s o the air you are getting is going to be hot. To really get cold air, you would want to get air from below the car, infront of the air damn. you would want to pick the air up, in the center of the car, due to the direction and pressure of the air.

Poncho Villa

Ok, researched the TBI hats a bit more, and yes I agree that if the filter is still near the motor, it's not a true "cold air" system. However, you could extend the intake tube downward, and duct it to the front of the car to get colder air. Also, makes no difference which side the TBI intake tube goes to---I believe ExtremeVelocity makes a TBI/carb hat that comes straight out, so you could run a tube down the middle of the engine bay to an IROC type CAI (Camaros only).

As for the K&N Filter Lid, no, it isn't cheap, but more filter area=less air resistance, IMHO. Eg. Noticed a BIG difference between paper 14X3 element and K&N, even though I've heard it said that 14X3 is oversize anyway and shouldn't matter. The difference between pulling air, and just inhaling it. Plus the filter lids look cool. Would be especially good with a scooped hood of some kind.

sunset92

well my first mod back 3 years ago was to buy the extreme lid and 14x3 open filter. i cranked it up and drove it and did not notice too much sotpf but after poppping the hood i soon realized that the insulation was sitting on the lid... so i removed the oil stained insulation and chuked it! and you could here the tbi much better. it sounds like a giant vacuum cleaner... i noticed a minimal diffrence, but then i bought the ss hood and cut the scoop open and the lid is drawing in air from the top an i think it makes a diffrence plus i have alot of other mods.
as soon as i get my new centerforce dual friction clutch intalled and a leaky timing chain cover i am going to the track! this thing has so much trq that iw will just about pick the front tires off the ground, i have new shocks on the back so the car is not really squatting it just takes off real hard i have beaten my lil brothers 97 mustang gt off the line several times he has kn intake frod racing pulleys and flowmaster exhaust. the rpm intake puts the filter actually up in the scoop and there is about 1 inch of clearance for the lid. also the water is not a problem because you aren't submerging the filter in a puddle like the cai kits that put the filter at the pavement.
i have driven i many bad storms and no problems at all! a lil water won't hurt anything infact a small amount can create some steam and clean your engine some.
they also sell a waterinjection kit from a place in cali that acts kinda like nitrous, it is used on turboed vehicles to cool the incoming air and give you a denser mix.
i am not recommending to go dump water on your throttle body but a little h20 won't kill yah.
i like the kn lid it looks nice and makes the tbi sound unique among v8's

Cadillac

I remember this thread. Great one... I still want a Ram Air II hood or the stock TA hood.

Yeah... I agree about the sound. It's definately special.

Is "Jawju" actually "Georgia"?

Poncho Villa

Yep, even with just the open element, and yes no more dusty old hood insulation (even tho it's good for colder climates and protecting the hood finish) my TBI makes a cool whooshing sound, and even whistles a bit between shifts.

Here's the Ram Air II hood, on a '91, same as my Bird. I would really like that hood, only thing I wonder about is lift at high speeds. Maybe some extractor vents on top, or holes in the back?

P.S. Nice red convertible Bird, Mike! Super mint, and don't see very many of those around.

nidyanazo

Works for me without a hood. Although I doubt anyone else here is hoodless.

Cadillac

Ohhh... that hood just does it for me.

:hail:

My wife thinks otherwise however. Screw it.

What's the story on that black car? Totally sweet. I'm partial to the 91-92 banshee nose for sure. Looks like some kind of mod is happening with the air dam to make it stronger maybe? Thanks for the kind words about my car. Sometimes I think that I would trade the vert for a nice 5.7 TPI. And then the sun comes up and I drop the top...

:lala:

Poncho Villa

My favorite hood too, although the cowl hoods also look good on Birds. As for the black car, a pic I found somewhere--I collect pictures of F-bodies. As for the airdam, looks like they screwed a "doorsweep" to it--the strip of rubber that attaches to the bottom of exterior doors. Probably to replace the inch or so that gets worn off with time. Easier just to buy a new one at Hawk's.

Yep, the convertible is sweet, and, down the line when it's rebuild time, you can always drop in an LS1 with a six speed. Do you have subframe connectors? Anyway, nice car as is, and the TBI motor still puts a smile on my face. Here's my Bird. Have since gotten new foglights.

sunset92

thats nice on the bird but i have a camaro with the single scoop. it looks like the white on on the hawks thirdgen site but my hood scoop is painted black. and my car is sunset orange metalic... very nice to look at! i need to get some pics up, the paint is incredible on this car!
and yes i am from georgia.

Cadillac

DUDE! ME TOO!

Well, HS there. Richmond Co./Augusta.

Go Dawgs!

Alright... enuff of the mutual admiration society that is TGO F-Body Owners.



Poncho, any chance I could con you into mailing me a hefty sized ZIP file of Pontiac 3rd Gens? I could think of something to do in return favor.

Poncho Villa

Yah, I'll look and see what I got. A lot of my pics are on my Mac though, which is currently down. so we will see. Maybe I can post them to a Yahoo Briefcase or something.