Lucky 13

i did a search.
i am at work right now, and i went to take my dinner break, and my car wouldnt fire up (89 LO3). i immediatly checked to see if the injectors were spraying=nope. i checked the fuses under the dash, i can hear the fuel pump energize, engine cranks fine. the only code i am getting is 32(i think thats egr) that only happens after being on highway for 5 minutes or so. after the car sits for a few minutes(off) the code will be gone until i get on highway again. well the code is still there. i got to work fine no problems at all.
every once in a while the car will stall when i am stopped at a traffic light, but it fires right back up.
i am unable to do any work now because it is 1030pm and i am 45 minutes form home with no tools.

i am thinking possiblly plugged fuel line, out of gas(gauge is a little funny).
i am going to loosen the fuel line behind the regualtor to check for fuel flow tomorrow.
any ideas.

Casey_Butt

As far as I can tell, the L03 chips don't actually use the EGR system for anything. They just send the signal to the solenoid to open the valve. After that, they don't even know if the valve opened or not. What happens is that the computer knows that when the EGR valve opens the manifold pressure should increase. After a while the computer catches on that it has sent the signal to open or close the EGR valve several times (?) and there hasn't been a corresponding change in the MAP sensor signal. Therefore, something must be wrong with the EGR system, so it gives you that SES light until you turn the car off and start it again (a "soft" error). It doesn't actually affect how the injectors fire anyway. This is why people can disconnect the EGR system without negatively affecting how the car runs.

Of course, if you haven't deliberately disconnected the EGR, and if the 32 code stays lit (a "hard" fault), then something in the EGR system has gone wrong. Perhaps the EGR valve is stuck open. Then you'd be getting low manifold vaccum at idle and perhaps screwing up the car at start-up. In any case, you have to address that EGR hard error.

If you're having injector operation problems at start-up I'd look at the fuel line (pump, regulator, etc.) or the MAP and CTS sensors maybe. It could be a million things really. It could be the ECU itself. IAC, TPS? You could be searching for a month - so the first thing I'd do is take that code 32 error seriously. If you didn't disconnect the EGR system, then you're getting that error for a reason that you hadn't planned for - look into it - it's your clue from the computer itself.

I'll probably be of no help whatsoever here, but have you tried washing and waxing the car? I find that my tape deck won't work unless I wash and wax the car. After 16 years she's finally caught on how to manipulate me into doing what she wants. Most women are like that, but they usually figure it out much quicker.

If that doesn't work, try massaging her steering wheel and talking to her very softly - they love that.

Lucky 13

yeah i have noticed the manipulation similarities between cars and females also.
well i dont have a fuel pressure test kit yet, but i am getting fuel to the tbi. i took off the top plate and regulator, and fuel squirted out when i turned the ign. i just have no injetor spray.
i am going to check for voltage at the injector harness to see if they are getting power.
is it possible the regulator is shot and not putting out any pressure?
will the TPS interfere with startup, not allowing the injectors to spray? the male end of the tps harness is busted, everything is connected, but the plastic is busted.
if i am not getting any power to the injectors, what would cause that?

with the egr, that only came on when i was at highway speeds for awhile. then after i shut the car off for a few minutes the code was gone. i disconnected the battery for 15 minutes, came back and the code was still there. i guess i will double check the egr

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

As said above, the ecm knows the egr is missing/malfunctioning when it checks for a change in manifold pressure when the valve is actuated. The test is performed when the speed is above a certain threshold and the load is constant. There is also additional timing added and fuel is removed when the valve is active so detonation can result if the valve is inoperative.

As for the injectors, the red/white wires in the injector connectors should have +12 volts with the key in the 'ON' position. Another possibility is that the ign module has gone south or maybe the pickup coil is faulty. If the fuel pump doesnt come on and the injecors dont fire when the engine is cranking (youll hear a click each time they fire), then its a good sign that there arnt any refernece pulses going to the computer. Check to make sure there is power to the module and all the wiring is in line and if in doubt, replace it. Dont bother with testing the module, sometimes bad ones test good.

Lucky 13

the injetors are not clicking. that is how i knew to check if they were spraying. so it is safe to assume they are not getting power(will check in a few minutes).
the fuel pump ispumping. but now clicking from injectors. i checked all fuses at the panel all good.
been meaning to replace the egr valve. i went through the checks thanks to Trickster, i was able to track down my egr problems. i replaced the solenoid, and all vacuum lines. that cleared up the hard fault. but the vlave throughs the code every so often. just too lazy to get one.
will the ignition module not allow the injectors to fire?

well i just went outside and put the volt meter to the harness.
red wire=12.08v
white=11.26v
there getting power but not firing?

Lucky 13

i imagine that the injectors are not suposed to recieve a constant power, that they are supposed to get a pulse, to activate the injector. that is why we here the clciking noise.
the volts i read were constant

Trickster

The injectors have drivers in the ECM that rely on reference signals from the distributor. Possible ignition module problem.

Lucky 13

Thanks everyone.
Trickster your advice is like light from the heavens
:hail:
i will go pick up a new module tomorrow am. i hope i dont have to tow her home, its a 45 minute drive.

Trickster

Let's give Dimented24x7 some of the credit also since he also mentioned the ignition module.

Lucky 13

Yeah i did, "Thanks everyone"
it is just that you have helped me pinpoint problems before Trickster. I almost look for your input specifically. Like a mechanic friend of mine, he has helped with advice that has been on the spot. were other "professionals" have been stumped or trying to give me the run-around
Thanks Trickster Dimented and Casey
hopefully i will have good news tomorrow

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

The injectors are switched on the ground side. The + side has power at all times while the circuit to ground is completed via the switching transisters in the ecm. Most everything is switched on the ground side to minimize teh likelyhood of shorts causing damage and possibly fire. Instead of smoking something its most likely to just turn on when a short to ground occurs. Nice to see that the engineers put some thought into the systems in these cars.

Lucky 13

that makes more sense dimented.
unfortunately the ignition module made no difference. i cranked it and no spray. i did get a slight fuel smell but no spray.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Is there an audable clicking from the injectors when its cranked? Does the fuel pump come on when its cranking?

Lucky 13

fuel pump sprays(took off the toplate of the pod injector and cranked) fuel sprayed out.
there is no clicking of the injectors while cranking.
the battery just took a dump so i cant do anymore until i get more juice.
i just went to check for spark when the battery took the dump.

Lucky 13

i dont think i have spark, just as i was checking the battery died.
i guess my next step would be the pickup coil?
i am goignto have to tow my car over 20 miles to get it back home. icant keep driving my bronco back and forth to work 2xaday
10 mpg sux

Lucky 13

well finally put the battery on charge, and no spark. didnt have time for much else. will double check codes tomorow. only code i was throwing was an egr(sometimes).
wondering if there is anything i should check before i pull the distributor to replace the pickup coil.
i assume it is safe to say(possibly) that no spark+no spray=possible bad pickup coil?

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Could be a bad coil or ignition module. You can change both without taking the distributor out. A chiltons manual will tell you how to properly check both to see if they are working.

Lucky 13

i thought in order to remove the pickup coil i had to pull the distributor.
i already replaced the ignition module.
i dont have a chiltons, i have a haynes manual, just have to find it.

Trickster

oops backtrack, re-read

Trickster

Hey Shifty,

I hate to say this, but not all distributors have the option of changing the pick-up coil with out taking the distributor out and breaking it down. I know mine doesn't and I wish to heck it did.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

I realize that now. I wasn't thinking and thought he was talking about the coil and not the pick up coil. Thats what you get when you read to fast.

Trickster

That's , how ya been percolating lately.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

As long as someone is there to keep me striaght

Lucky 13

so i do have to pull the distributor. i was looking at it today, and i dont see any way to pull the pickup coil without taking out the dist. too bad dont remember what timming was at i know i had advanced it, but dont remember how much. 6* maybe

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Don't worry about the timing. That is easy compaired to everything else. You will have to pull it. I was not thinking clearly earlier and thought you were talking about the coil and not pick up coil.

Lucky 13

not to concerned about timing i can always adjust it. worried about pulling the dist. i tried pulling a dist out of my brothers 305, and i ended up destroying it. the dist would not budge one bit.
yes i took off the nut and the hold down.

i hope i dont run into the same problems this time.
such a hassle for a 10 buck part.

any brand to stay away from

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Stick with stock stuff for now. The distribuotr should come out with ease. Just pull on it but don't grip it to tight so that it can spin in your hands as you dissengage the cam gear with the distributor gear.

Lucky 13

GP sorenson is ok?

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

That or AC delco. Either should suffice. I have never had a problem with GP sornsen parts on numerous vehicles.

Lucky 13

i am just cautious when purchasing electrical components from advance auto
thanks for the help guys.
hopefully i will post results on wednesday, i have to get a TBI gasket kit. i tore mine up taking the pod apart to check for fuel flow.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

If you have a volt meter check the resistnace of the pick up coil. it should be between 500 and 1500 ohms. If not chances are it is fried.

Lucky 13

will do
thanks again

Lucky 13

well i pulled the distributor succesfully, and started to dismantle it.
as i was pulling the center shaft out, it became real stubborn.
i finally got the shaft out, but the magnets are broken.
can they be replaced or will i have to get a new dist.
by the way, the pickup coil was in real bad condition. the wires are cracked and the wire ends around the coil are corroded. i replacd the coil, but it isnt doing me any good right now. i can get a reman from adv auto w/lifetime warranty for 100bucks. is it worth it?

Trickster

It would be cheaper and you would be better off in the long run to just replace the distributor. I would also pull the new ignition module off of the old distributor and keep it as a spare. The new one comes with one already installed. If you haven't already done so recently, you might pick up a new cap & rotor also.

Lucky 13

i was leaning towards picking up a junkyard dizzy and cannabalizing it. yeah cap and rotor are a year old dont look bad at all.
unlike my bronco i dont see how spark was getting past all the buildup.
right now its either cannabalize a 20 junkyard dizzy
or shell out 100 bucks on a reman with a limited lifetime warranty
my friend has one its a cardone or something like that says its ok

what is the main diff between a stock dizzy and say a MSD replacement besides 200 bucks?

Lucky 13

well i bought the reman, and it fired right up. i checked the timing and it is at 2* i slightly remember it being set @ 6* before.
while i was in there i put in my Ultimate tbi. it ran fone today, bit sluggish lowend but once it hit 3k it took off.
tomorrow i will bump the timing up 2* and see what i get.